No regard...for the desire of women

Lisa

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Yes, I said you're starting to sound as extreme as ISIS in your views. Have you seriously not reflected on some of the stuff you've said on these forums?

Or is Christianity exempt from extremism?

I pity you actually and I truly hope you find happiness.

I don't even think Christians know what their faith is about. Sorry to be blunt, I just genuinely don't get your faith and never will.
You all believe in different things so it's hard to determine what it is you're actually following.

So you're on VC to spread the word and hopefully convert someone? Odd motive but have fun doing so.
I’m sure I’m very far from cutting peoples heads off, so I can’t agree with you there.

Extremeism like cutting people’s heads off?

Yes I’m on VC, I do talk about God and the Bible and I do hope people will believe, for their sake not mine.
 

Lisa

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Hey @Lisa
"In psychology a person who has a martyr complex, sometimes associated with the term "victim complex", desires the feeling of being a martyr for their own sake, seeking out suffering or persecution because it either feeds a psychological need or a desire to avoid responsibility."

View attachment 24844
What responsibility do you think I’m avoiding? I’ve been avoiding this for quite sometime actually.
 

Lisa

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I guess you didn’t appreciate what I was saying Lisa -

Romans 3:23 (NKJV)

23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Nobody is beyond reproach.

On this occasion you have accused me of motivations I do not hold as well as a whole litany of aspersions on my character. I have tried to respond to you with respect (as much as I have been able to) despite feeling deep offence due your continued attacks against me.

Let’s just stop it, shall we?

I am not your enemy. Certainly we have doctrinal differences, but wasting time on this sort of thing does nothing other than bringing Christianity into a negative light in front of people for whom Jesus died, and who look to us as examples of how Christians relate to one another.
I have accused you of not contending for the faith and for seeking to find common ground with people when you should be contending for the faith. I think that I am correct in my observations. If you truly believe no one is beyond reproach then you should prayerfully give what I said to God.

I would say that they already know we don’t all agree before I brought this up.
 

Lisa

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I think in your case it's more the filling of a psychological need to feel like you're some saviour of the lost when honestly you're just trashing your own religion with your rudeness.
I have no savior complex, I can’t save anyone.
 

Vytas

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Sure, people have the right to believe what they want to believe. However for the Christian, we ought to contend earnestly for the faith. That’s all I’m saying really. Where is his contending? He is so busy trying to find that common ground or not be offensive in that the truth is found in the Bible that it feels like his loyalty isn’t to God or the word at all and that is what offends. And that is why I say stand up for the truth! Quote the Bible in truth.

As for a pissing contest...what does contend earnestly for the faith mean to you? Is it a vague suggestion? Is it not trying to win the point?

1contend-Synonyms: battle, compete, face off, fight, race, rival, vie

1earnest-Synonyms: serious, grave, humorless, no-nonsense, po-faced [British], sedate, severe, sober, sobersided, solemn, staid, uncomic, unsmiling, weighty

We are to seriously try to win the argument for our faith...it’s not come to a common agreement where everyone wins. It’s contend earnestly for the faith...he doesn’t do that and worse makes people think that their truth is as good as God’s which is wrong.
What is earnestly and what is serious? Are those who scream laoudest are promoting their faith most earnestly ? How about quality and fruits of the work mentioned ? Bottom line people are much more willing to listen to someone who is polite and without holier than thou atitude. Another thing, it's a discussion forum, entertainment and perhaps chance at learning something intetesting, or chats/disussions is what keeps peeps here. You aren't converting anyone here, best you can do is to keep positive image of yourself as a representative of your faith (if we are that serious). If you disagree than tell me how many converts you made here, in those 4-5 years .
 

Red Sky at Morning

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I have accused you of not contending for the faith and for seeking to find common ground with people when you should be contending for the faith. I think that I am correct in my observations. If you truly believe no one is beyond reproach then you should prayerfully give what I said to God.

I would say that they already know we don’t all agree before I brought this up.
I will bear in mind your concerns Lisa.

I genuinely believe in the value of contending, but there is a subtle difference between standing up for truth and being contentious in the way you do it. For me to relate to people any differently would require me to be someone else, and I simply can’t do that.
 

Lisa

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What is earnestly and what is serious? Are those who scream laoudest are promoting their faith most earnestly ? How about quality and fruits of the work mentioned ? Bottom line people are much more willing to listen to someone who is polite and without holier than thou atitude. Another thing, it's a discussion forum, entertainment and perhaps chance at learning something intetesting, or chats/disussions is what keeps peeps here. You aren't converting anyone here, best you can do is to keep positive image of yourself as a representative of your faith (if we are that serious). If you disagree than tell me how many converts you made here, in those 4-5 years .
I think you can try to keep a positive image but that when you truly start being truthful..people are gonna take things in ways you never said or meant and then there goes your image. Happened to me, many times.

Who says I’m trying to convert anyone? I don’t think I can change anyone’s mind, all I can do is present the truth of the gospel and let the Holy Spirit do His work.
 

Robin

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Didn’t you say that I thought I was a savior of the lost?
Yes, and you do. Why else all the ignorant judgements of not only people who don't follow your religion but those that do as well. You make strong statements assessing other people's faith and character with the tagline "but I hope they believe for their own sakes". What else would you call that?
 

Haich

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I’m sure I’m very far from cutting peoples heads off, so I can’t agree with you there.

Extremeism like cutting people’s heads off?

Yes I’m on VC, I do talk about God and the Bible and I do hope people will believe, for their sake not mine.
Did I say you were planning to cut off heads? There you go again, jumping to conclusions. Try reading what people say carefully. Your views are extreme, not your actions. I can't speak on your actions as I don't know you.

You can be extreme in your views without being extreme in your actions.

So you care so much about the welfare of others, that's why you're constantly telling us about weeping, the gnashing of the teeth and the lake of fire?

How about just letting people be...if you want to remind or educate people about your faith, start a Christian appreciation thread.
 

Lisa

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I will bear in mind your concerns Lisa.
Thank you.

I genuinely believe in the value of contending, but there is a subtle difference between standing up for truth and being contentious in the way you do it. For me to relate to people any differently would require me to be someone else, and I simply can’t do that.
God is not done with you yet.

Lukewarm is not a good look..
Revelation‬ ‭3:15-16‬ ‭
I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot; I wish that you were cold or hot. So because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of My mouth.
‭‭
 

Lisa

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Yes, and you do. Why else all the ignorant judgements of not only people who don't follow your religion but those that do as well. You make strong statements assessing other people's faith and character with the tagline "but I hope they believe for their own sakes". What else would you call that?
So are we back to the savior complex thing? Maybe you’re confused?

No I meant that I hope people come to be saved for their own sakes, I wouldn’t want anyone to be thrown into the lake of fire where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth.
 
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Lisa

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Did I say you were planning to cut off heads? There you go again, jumping to conclusions. Try reading what people say carefully. Your views are extreme, not your actions. I can't speak on your actions as I don't know you.

You can be extreme in your views without being extreme in your actions.

So you care so much about the welfare of others, that's why you're constantly telling us about weeping, the gnashing of the teeth and the lake of fire?

How about just letting people be...if you want to remind or educate people about your faith, start a Christian appreciation thread.
Well I didn’t know what you meant by I was like isis. When I think isis I think chopping heads off...

Ya! I don’t want anyone to be thrown in the lake of fire where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth, that would be caring. Uncaring would be enjoy your stay or not saying anything at all..don’t ya think?

If I wanted to let people be I wouldn’t come here, we come and talk and share our thoughts...God is a lot of my thoughts.
 

Robin

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So are we back to the savior complex thing? Maybe you’re confused?

No I meant that I hope people come to be saved for their own sakes, i wouldn’t want anyone to be thrown into the lake of fire where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth.
No, Lisa, I think you are the one that is confused. You have a martydom *complex* because you like to play victim that people pick on you because you are oh-so-Christian but you *play* saviour with your judgements. Pretty sure only Jesus was supposed to judge.

Exactly. But of course they can't just believe, they have to believe YOUR version of the gospel.
 

Haich

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Well I didn’t know what you meant by I was like isis. When I think isis I think chopping heads off...

Ya! I don’t want anyone to be thrown in the lake of fire where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth, that would be caring. Uncaring would be enjoy your stay or not saying anything at all..don’t ya think?

If I wanted to let people be I wouldn’t come here, we come and talk and share our thoughts...God is a lot of my thoughts.
I don't think constantly belittling others' beliefs is very Christian.
 

Chara

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Well I didn’t know what you meant by I was like isis. When I think isis I think chopping heads off...

Ya! I don’t want anyone to be thrown in the lake of fire where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth, that would be caring. Uncaring would be enjoy your stay or not saying anything at all..don’t ya think?

If I wanted to let people be I wouldn’t come here, we come and talk and share our thoughts...God is a lot of my thoughts.
I guess the question I have to ask is that how you’re so sure that one, the alleged lake of fire actually exists, and two, that you know how to avoid it. Every religion claims they know how to avoid the lake of fire, and that ONLY they know how to avoid it. Obviously you can’t all be right. What makes you so convinced that you and not the Muslims, or the guy who’s a gnostic, are right? I’m pretty sure your response is going to be “the Bible,” but what about the Bible inherently makes it more trustworthy than other thousand year old religious texts? The Koran also claims to be infallible. So does the Gita. So does literally every other religious text. What makes you so sure? It seems unbelievably arrogant to claim that you and you alone know the unknowable.
 

Red Sky at Morning

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@Lisa - Given that you and I presently appear to misunderstand each other’s approach and intentions to sharing our faith and contending for the gospel, perhaps this example of an encounter with Paul, Agrippa (unbelieving Jew) and Festus (Idol worshipping Roman) might give an “how to” example?

Acts 26 New King James Version (NKJV)

26 Then Agrippa said to Paul, “You are permitted to speak for yourself.”

So Paul stretched out his hand and answered for himself: 2 “I think myself happy, King Agrippa, because today I shall answer for myself before you concerning all the things of which I am accused by the Jews, 3 especially because you are expert in all customs and questions which have to do with the Jews. Therefore I beg you to hear me patiently.

[he begins his discussion by acknowledging that Herod has some knowledge and expertise himself]

4 “My manner of life from my youth, which was spent from the beginning among my own nation at Jerusalem, all the Jews know. 5 They knew me from the first, if they were willing to testify, that according to the strictest sect of our religion I lived a Pharisee. 6 And now I stand and am judged for the hope of the promise made by God to our fathers.

[Paul sets the scene]

7 To this promise our twelve tribes, earnestly serving God night and day, hope to attain. For this hope’s sake, King Agrippa, I am accused by the Jews. 8 Why should it be thought incredible by you that God raises the dead?

[he prompts with a question]

9 “Indeed, I myself thought I must do many things contrary to the name of Jesus of Nazareth. 10 This I also did in Jerusalem, and many of the saints I shut up in prison, having received authority from the chief priests; and when they were put to death, I cast my vote against them. 11 And I punished them often in every synagogue and compelled them to blaspheme; and being exceedingly enraged against them, I persecuted them even to foreign cities.

[he begins from a position of humility - he has done things as bad or worse than those he is speaking to]

12 “While thus occupied, as I journeyed to Damascus with authority and commission from the chief priests, 13 at midday, O king, along the road I saw a light from heaven, brighter than the sun, shining around me and those who journeyed with me. 14 And when we all had fallen to the ground, I heard a voice speaking to me and saying in the Hebrew language, ‘Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me? It is hard for you to kick against the goads.’ 15 So I said, ‘Who are You, Lord?’ And He said, ‘I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. 16 But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of the things which you have seen and of the things which I will yet reveal to you. 17 I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you, 18 to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’

[he has a personal experience of the Lord and simply shares it]

19 “Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, 20 but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance. 21 For these reasons the Jews seized me in the temple and tried to kill me. 22 Therefore, having obtained help from God, to this day I stand, witnessing both to small and great, saying no other things than those which the prophets and Moses said would come— 23 that the Christ would suffer, that He would be the first to rise from the dead, and would proclaim light to the Jewish people and to the Gentiles.”

[he provides shared context for the Gospel, appealing to information they already know]

24 Now as he thus made his defense, Festus said with a loud voice, “Paul, you are beside yourself! Much learning is driving you mad!”

[Festus scorns Paul]

25 But he said, “I am not mad, most noble Festus, but speak the words of truth and reason.

[he disagrees with Festus’s assessment of him politely]

26 For the king, before whom I also speak freely, knows these things; for I am convinced that none of these things escapes his attention, since this thing was not done in a corner. 27 King Agrippa, do you believe the prophets? I know that you do believe.”

[Paul appeals to something he knows Agrippa already believes and encourages him to make the connection]

28 Then Agrippa said to Paul, “You almost persuade me to become a Christian.”

[Paul has made him think]

29 And Paul said, “I would to God that not only you, but also all who hear me today, might become both almost and altogether such as I am, except for these chains.”

[surprisingly, Paul then leaves it to God to work on Agrippa, whilst stating that he would very much desire that he would become a Christian]

30 When he had said these things, the king stood up, as well as the governor and Bernice and those who sat with them; 31 and when they had gone aside, they talked among themselves, saying, “This man is doing nothing deserving of death or chains.”

32 Then Agrippa said to Festus, “This man might have been set free if he had not appealed to Caesar.”

[the encounter concludes]
 
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