Dangers Of Marijuanas

[shankara]

Do you think all the plant did was distract you from it enough that it wasn’t consuming you?

It gave me the strength to abandon negative behaviour....

 

[Lisa]

It gave me the strength to abandon negative behaviour....

I think it distracted you so that you could begin again and maybe that’s why everyone loves marijuana so much? It distracts their minds, but it also alters the way people think and look at the world around them and that’s not a good thing.

 

[shankara]

I think it distracted you so that you could begin again and maybe that’s why everyone loves marijuana so much? It distracts their minds, but it also alters the way people think and look at the world around them and that’s not a good thing.

If it makes me look at the world like this I don't see the problem...

 

[Lisa]

If it makes me look at the world like this I don't see the problem...

The problem is you are relying on a drug to do that.

 

[shankara]

I don't think this conversation is really going anywhere. I already explained what I see to be the problem with the label "Drugs".

Have a good weekend, ciao.

 

[Lisa]

I don't think this conversation is really going anywhere. I already explained what I see to be the problem with the label "Drugs".

Have a good weekend, ciao.

Thanks, I hope you have a good weekend too!

Just so I’m clear..what would make this a conversation you think is going somewhere?

 

[Lurker]

I’ve had morphine once and can see how someone would like that to shut out the pain..but people don’t really need to have that kind of pain relief long term.

I am really beginning to think that if anyone deserves intractable pain, it's you.

 

[Lisa]

I am really beginning to think that if anyone deserves intractable pain, it's you.

Why’s that? I wouldn’t wish intractable pain on you.

 

[shankara]

Thanks, I hope you have a good weekend too!

Just so I’m clear..what would make this a conversation you think is going somewhere?

It just seems to me that we have views which are irreconcilable, we approach things from such totally different perspectives. Your central belief seems to hinge around the idea that we shouldn't alter the mind, that the state of everyday consciousness is the proper natural state of mind. I, on the other hand, am convinced that our everyday state of consciousness is itself altered and that we have to return to, or arrive at, a higher state of consciousness whether through contemplative practices or with the help of plants (or preferably the two together).

Further, you seem to be convinced that even simply engaging in contemplative practices is something dangerous and not at all helpful. I couldn't disagree more and on that subject I will never be convinced otherwise because I engage in such practices and know their benefits. I also had a very positive experience with Ganja which helped me greatly to overcome some problems I was having. You draw some distinction between the plant "distracting" me and actually helping me, there was no such distinction in my experience. In fact it is in a way quite the opposite of distraction, it's self-analysis.

Meditation and Ganja can both lead to states of self-knowledge, but in these dark times the Ganja is extremely useful in overcoming psychological blocks which would be much more difficult or take much more time to overcome without it.

It seems to me that you have been rather taken in by propaganda, to be honest. If our mind should be in any state, "altered" or otherwise, it should be in a state of freedom. I cannot convince you merely by intellectual arguments of how the herb is useful, you really have to experience it for yourself in the proper environment with the proper intention. Of course it is your choice whether that's something that interests you, we are all on different paths through this life and nobody has the right to tell anybody how to think or feel. Nonetheless I hope that you might try such an experience, because I believe it would be a beneficial experience for you, but I respect your freedom of choice.

 

[polymoog]

Yes, shouldn’t alter your mind, it’s wrong.

you are entitled to your opinion. but no one has right to impose their morality on others, or what they feel is harmful or not harmful. it should be intuitive how completely subjective determining what is and what is not harmful and how legislating that can be extremely dangerous. i had this discussion with colgate about pornography on the threat of the same name. you dont have to like it or agree with it, but you do have to allow others to choose what is wrong or right for themselves, especially when a big part of your argument is religious-based.
religious-based governments end up as sharia law.

 

[Lisa]

It just seems to me that we have views which are irreconcilable, we approach things from such totally different perspectives. Your central belief seems to hinge around the idea that we shouldn't alter the mind, that the state of everyday consciousness is the proper natural state of mind. I, on the other hand, am convinced that our everyday state of consciousness is itself altered and that we have to return to, or arrive at, a higher state of consciousness whether through contemplative practices or with the help of plants (or preferably the two together).

Further, you seem to be convinced that even simply engaging in contemplative practices is something dangerous and not at all helpful. I couldn't disagree more and on that subject I will never be convinced otherwise because I engage in such practices and know their benefits. I also had a very positive experience with Ganja which helped me greatly to overcome some problems I was having. You draw some distinction between the plant "distracting" me and actually helping me, there was no such distinction in my experience. In fact it is in a way quite the opposite of distraction, it's self-analysis.

Meditation and Ganja can both lead to states of self-knowledge, but in these dark times the Ganja is extremely useful in overcoming psychological blocks which would be much more difficult or take much more time to overcome without it.

It seems to me that you have been rather taken in by propaganda, to be honest. If our mind should be in any state, "altered" or otherwise, it should be in a state of freedom. I cannot convince you merely by intellectual arguments of how the herb is useful, you really have to experience it for yourself in the proper environment with the proper intention. Of course it is your choice whether that's something that interests you, we are all on different paths through this life and nobody has the right to tell anybody how to think or feel. Nonetheless I hope that you might try such an experience, because I believe it would be a beneficial experience for you, but I respect your freedom of choice.

Thanks for taking the time to post except I asked you what would make this a conversation you think is going somewhere, I already know that we disagree.

 

[Lisa]

you are entitled to your opinion. but no one has right to impose their morality on others, or what they feel is harmful or not harmful. it should be intuitive how completely subjective determining what is and what is not harmful and how legislating that can be extremely dangerous. i had this discussion with colgate about pornography on the threat of the same name. you dont have to like it or agree with it, but you do have to allow others to choose what is wrong or right for themselves, especially when a big part of your argument is religious-based.
religious-based governments end up as sharia law.

Yes I am entitled to my opinion and I never tell people they have to do what I say so idk why you or anyone gets so annoyed when I voice my opinion?
Just like your voicing your opinion..

Nah..Christianity isn’t sharia law. Do not kill and do not steal are good laws. People naturally know God’s law anyway.

 

[polymoog]

Yes I am entitled to my opinion and I never tell people they have to do what I say so idk why you or anyone gets so annoyed when I voice my opinion?
Just like your voicing your opinion..

all i was expecting of you is to agree that one should have to right to do what they please with their own body and mind as long as it does not interfere with anyone else. if you said 'yes', the discussion wouldve been over 2 pages ago for me. i appreciate your moral stance on this; i simply disagree
each of our opinions on drugs, legal, prescription, or otherwise, has no bearing on what one should or should not do with ones own body.
the problem is that you never fully agreed-- you said that you "supposed'' (post #121) it was not your business if someone does drugs or not, but the persisted in not addressing why.

legality-- ones right to do the drug-- should have no bearing on morality, which is totally subjective. you continue to argue from a moral standpoint.

 

[polymoog]

People naturally know God’s law anyway.

...which is natural law. "dont steal".... and the encompasses 'stealing' the right of another to decide what to ingest, inhale, or drink.

 

[Lisa]

all i was expecting of you is to agree that one should have to right to do what they please with their own body and mind as long as it does not interfere with anyone else. if you said 'yes', the discussion wouldve been over 2 pages ago for me. i appreciate your moral stance on this; i simply disagree
each of our opinions on drugs, legal, prescription, or otherwise, has no bearing on what one should or should not do with ones own body.
the problem is that you never fully agreed-- you said that you "supposed'' (post #121) it was not your business if someone does drugs or not, but the persisted in not addressing why.

legality-- ones right to do the drug-- should have no bearing on morality, which is totally subjective. you continue to argue from a moral standpoint.

Why should it bother you or anyone else for me to argue from a moral standpoint? You’re still free to do as you please...

I can’t agree that one has the right to do whatever they want with their own body if it harms the person doing it. I understand the issue of not hurting someone else, but I don’t want to see someone hurt by their own poor choices. Someone doing drugs and not harming anyone else are still harming themselves and I can’t agree to it.

It seems that all anyone here wants is a pat on the back and a hearty approval with whatever they want to do and if you don’t do that somehow your in the wrong...used to be you’d council people to do the right thing not go along with the wrong.

 

[Lisa]

...which is natural law. "dont steal".... and the encompasses 'stealing' the right of another to decide what to ingest, inhale, or drink.

God’s law, ya...I didn’t steal anyone’s right to do what they want, I just counseled against doing something that would be wrong for them...that’s caring.

 

[shankara]

Thanks for taking the time to post except I asked you what would make this a conversation you think is going somewhere, I already know that we disagree.

What I'm saying is that we have such fundamentally different perspectives on whether it's correct and useful to "alter the mind" (I'm not sure that really that's the correct term for me because so far as I see it we are already "altered"), I don't think it's likely that we're going to find any common ground.

 

[Lisa]

What I'm saying is that we have such fundamentally different perspectives on whether it's correct and useful to "alter the mind" (I'm not sure that really that's the correct term for me because so far as I see it we are already "altered"), I don't think it's likely that we're going to find any common ground.

If I may ask...how are we already altered?

So to have a productive conversation from your viewpoint, we must have common ground. And to have common ground, looks like I have to agree with you and not the other way around?

 

[shankara]

If I may ask...how are we already altered?

So to have a productive conversation from your viewpoint, we must have common ground. And to have common ground, looks like I have to agree with you and not the other way around?

We are altered in the sense that the normative "reality" which we are a part of isn't the true Reality. It's a social construction, conditioning. We are in illusion, Maya, and I believe that we need to return to Reality by contemplative practices, or Shamanism etc, to get beyond our projections.

No, I don't expect you to agree with me, and nor should you expect me to agree with you. I'm saying that our views are so fundamentally divergent, and neither us are going to move, then it's pointless continuing, best just to "agree to disagree".

 

[Lisa]

We are altered in the sense that the normative "reality" which we are a part of isn't the true Reality. It's a social construction, conditioning. We are in illusion, Maya, and I believe that we need to return to Reality by contemplative practices, or Shamanism etc, to get beyond our projections.

No, I don't expect you to agree with me, and nor should you expect me to agree with you. I'm saying that our views are so fundamentally divergent, and neither us are going to move, then it's pointless continuing, best just to "agree to disagree".

What is true reality to you and how do you even know that the reality you are seeking is true? What about this life do you think makes it unreal?

I can’t say that I can agree to disagree as I feel that you are wrong to do drugs no matter what your reasoning for it or to pray contemplatively. I think I would be wrong to agree with you just to have common ground.