Judge Jeanine: Trump is fulfilling End Times prophecy!

[TempestOfTempo]

I have never listened to John Hagee and I don't have a good opinion of him from what I know, but I'm not aware that he's ever started any wars.

Do you have some names and specific examples of Christian Zionists who have promoted or started wars based on their belief it will bring Jesus back sooner? Because otherwise it's just accusations based on misunderstanding, isn't it?

Various CZ in the US military and political machine have been quoted as basically saying these are holy wars the US is campaigning..... do you take them at their word?

 

[Thunderian]

Various CZ in the US military and political machine have been quoted as basically saying these are holy wars the US is campaigning..... do you take them at their word?

These vague someone's who may have made comments about a holy war? Who are they? What exactly did they say?

Honestly, man, if Christian Zionists using prophecy to urge the world to war is an actual thing people need to be concerned about, you need to have a concrete, verifiable example or it's just all so much conjecture and lies.

 

[DesertRose]

Believe your prophecies but do not vote for or support people who implement them.
Caption under video:
This is a documentary by We Hold These Truths regarding Christian Zionism. It is indeed a "must see" to understand why Christian Zionists (Judeo-Christians, Dispensationalists) support war in the Middle East to protect Israel. Find out how Cyrus I. Scofield's reference Bible was used to promote Christian Zionism throughout evangelical seminaries and into evangelical churches for over a hundred years.

 

[TempestOfTempo]

These vague someone's who may have made comments about a holy war? Who are they? What exactly did they say?

Honestly, man, if Christian Zionists using prophecy to urge the world to war is an actual thing people need to be concerned about, you need to have a concrete, verifiable example or it's just all so much conjecture and lies.

Im going to just stick with Hagge for now as we are all seemingly familiar with him and he is connected to the issue currently via his appearance at the aforementioned embassy moving event:
"And we support Senator Joseph Lieberman, that it’s time for our country to consider a military preemptive strike against Iran"

"Hagge lays out a scenario predicting that if Israel and America attack Iran, Russia and its allies — including Iran — will attack Israel, triggering Ezekiel’s War. God will crush the invading forces as – quote – “he crushed Pharaoh, Haman, and Hitler so that Israel and the world ‘shall know that I am the Lord.'” says John Hagee, the battle of Armageddon will follow."

"Listen to me. Just as I wrote in JERUSALEM COUNTDOWN, Ahmadinejad will not respond to diplomacy. He has no intention of yielding to sanctions. He’s stalling for time to make nuclear weapons to attack Israel and to attack the United States.
He will do it. Iran is a clear and present danger to the survival of Israel, to the United States of America and the western the world — western world. Therefore it is time for America to embrace the words of Senator Joseph Lieberman and consider a military preemptive strike against Iran to prevent a nuclear holocaust in Israel and a nuclear attack in America."

- Ahmadinejad "didnt respond to diplomacy" so much that he's not even in power anymore (let alone attacked anyone and led no such attack as prophesied here by Hagge) and no matter how much Iran gave in terms of diplomacy (ex. the current, almost-extinct thanks to Trump inspections deal) its obvious that Israeli and Christian Zionists wont accept it. Im interested in your reply.......

 

[Thunderian]

Im going to just stick with Hagge for now as we are all seemingly familiar with him and he is connected to the issue currently via his appearance at the aforementioned embassy moving event:
"And we support Senator Joseph Lieberman, that it’s time for our country to consider a military preemptive strike against Iran"

"Hagge lays out a scenario predicting that if Israel and America attack Iran, Russia and its allies — including Iran — will attack Israel, triggering Ezekiel’s War. God will crush the invading forces as – quote – “he crushed Pharaoh, Haman, and Hitler so that Israel and the world ‘shall know that I am the Lord.'” says John Hagee, the battle of Armageddon will follow."

"Listen to me. Just as I wrote in JERUSALEM COUNTDOWN, Ahmadinejad will not respond to diplomacy. He has no intention of yielding to sanctions. He’s stalling for time to make nuclear weapons to attack Israel and to attack the United States.
He will do it. Iran is a clear and present danger to the survival of Israel, to the United States of America and the western the world — western world. Therefore it is time for America to embrace the words of Senator Joseph Lieberman and consider a military preemptive strike against Iran to prevent a nuclear holocaust in Israel and a nuclear attack in America."

- Ahmadinejad "didnt respond to diplomacy" so much that he's not even in power anymore (let alone attacked anyone and led no such attack as prophesied here by Hagge) and no matter how much Iran gave in terms of diplomacy (ex. the current, almost-extinct thanks to Trump inspections deal) its obvious that Israeli and Christian Zionists wont accept it. Im interested in your reply.......

You need to give a linked source for the quote. Not that I am disputing it, it's just that I need to see where things come from. I have seen too many "quotes" that were garbled, taken out of context, or completely made up.

As I said, I don't think much of Hagee. I don't follow him, and I disagree with a lot of what he says and does. That alone should be an indicator that not everyone who calls themselves a Christian Zionist thinks exactly alike.

Lieberman is no longer a senator, and Ahmadinejad is no longer in power, as you say, so what does that tell you about Christian Zionist efforts to bring about Armageddon? It's clearly not working.

As for the Iran deal, Trump is not a Christian, and certainly has given no indication that he would know a Biblical prophecy if it landed on his head. He has said, and it's been shown, that Iran didn't honour their part of the deal at all, so it's not Christian Zionism refusing to accept that Iran is following the deal as much as it is Iran simply not complying.

 

[TempestOfTempo]

You need to give a linked source for the quote. Not that I am disputing it, it's just that I need to see where things come from. I have seen too many "quotes" that were garbled, taken out of context, or completely made up.

As I said, I don't think much of Hagee. I don't follow him, and I disagree with a lot of what he says and does. That alone should be an indicator that not everyone who calls themselves a Christian Zionist thinks exactly alike.

Lieberman is no longer a senator, and Ahmadinejad is no longer in power, as you say, so what does that tell you about Christian Zionist efforts to bring about Armageddon? It's clearly not working.

As for the Iran deal, Trump is not a Christian, and certainly has given no indication that he would know a Biblical prophecy if it landed on his head. He has said, and it's been shown, that Iran didn't honour their part of the deal at all, so it's not Christian Zionism refusing to accept that Iran is following the deal as much as it is Iran simply not complying.

Its from a Bill Moyers report but come on Thundo, he's been spewing this stuff, on camera and in public, for years. This stuff isnt a secret and his words are not manipulated. Hagge is among the most popular CZ pastors so while I agree (and have already agreed) that he doesn't rep for all CZs, he does speak for a great number of them and he's not alone as a pastor in doing so.

Trump and Netanyahu keep floating that Iran hasn't lived up to their end of the bargain, but they produce no proof. In addition Israeli and American intelligence services have stated flatly that there is no evidence of Iran's non-compliance. This is to build momentum for yet another war of aggression to be waged by our nation against an enemy whom does not exist.... all at the behest of Israeli Zionists.
You are trying to move the goal posts here.
https://billmoyers.com/content/christian-zionism-rhetoric-preemptive-war-2/

 

[Karlysymon]

Various CZ in the US military and political machine have been quoted as basically saying these are holy wars the US is campaigning.

https://www.au.org/church-state/december-2004-church-state/au-bulletin/gen-boykin-s-religious-crusade-draws

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/andrewbrown/2009/aug/10/religion-george-bush

 

[Awoken2]

Its from a Bill Moyers report but come on Thundo, he's been spewing this stuff, on camera and in public, for years. This stuff isnt a secret and his words are not manipulated. Hagge is among the most popular CZ pastors so while I agree (and have already agreed) that he doesn't rep for all CZs, he does speak for a great number of them and he's not alone as a pastor in doing so.

Trump and Netanyahu keep floating that Iran hasn't lived up to their end of the bargain, but they produce no proof. In addition Israeli and American intelligence services have stated flatly that there is no evidence of Iran's non-compliance. This is to build momentum for yet another war of aggression to be waged by our nation against an enemy whom does not exist.... all at the behest of Israeli Zionists.
You are trying to move the goal posts here.
https://billmoyers.com/content/christian-zionism-rhetoric-preemptive-war-2/

Hey this guys goalposts are at each corner flag now. Wasn't it in this thread somewhere when he uttered the statement "or you've been brain washed"

The epitome of the pot calling the kettle black.

 

[TempestOfTempo]

Hey this guys goalposts are at each corner flag now. Wasn't it in this thread somewhere when he uttered the statement "or you've been brain washed"

The epitome of the pot calling the kettle black.

I notice that he aint responded yet to me and Karysymons posts that show the most influential CZ pastor in America (perhaps the world) espousing exactly the kind of rhetoric he claimed ignorance of. Oh yeah..... that and the freaking PREZ OF THE UNITED STATES.......

 

[Awoken2]

I notice that he aint responded yet to me and Karysymons posts that show the most influential CZ pastor in America (perhaps the world) espousing exactly the kind of rhetoric he claimed ignorance of. Oh yeah..... that and the freaking PREZ OF THE UNITED STATES.......

I feel he may have popped up on another thread with new name and icon. They always seem to quietly exit stage left when hit with anything they can't refute.

You know the game, as I do

 

[TempestOfTempo]

I feel he may have popped up on another thread with new name and icon. They always seem to quietly exit stage left when hit with anything they can't refute.

You know the game, as I do

Man I hope he aint like that. Thundo seems too proud to stoop that low lol

 

[DesertRose]

US ambassador poses with poster showing Jewish Third Temple replacing Al-Aqsa
#Occupation

What's missing in this photo of Jerusalem that US Ambassador to Israel David Friedman is looking at? The Dome of the Rock & Al-Aqsa Mosque. Removing the Islamic holy sites is a long-term goal of far-right Israeli Jewish extremists who want to erase Palestinians from Jerusalem.

11:47 AM - May 22, 2018
source: http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/jerusalem-us-ambassador-pictured-poster-showing-jewish-temple-place-al-aqsa-1023975841

 

[Karlysymon]

US ambassador poses with poster showing Jewish Third Temple replacing Al-Aqsa
#Occupation

What's missing in this photo of Jerusalem that US Ambassador to Israel David Friedman is looking at? The Dome of the Rock & Al-Aqsa Mosque. Removing the Islamic holy sites is a long-term goal of far-right Israeli Jewish extremists who want to erase Palestinians from Jerusalem.

11:47 AM - May 22, 2018
source: http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/jerusalem-us-ambassador-pictured-poster-showing-jewish-temple-place-al-aqsa-1023975841

Please repost this in the prophetic thread so that I can respond to it.

 

[Thunderian]

Its from a Bill Moyers report but come on Thundo, he's been spewing this stuff, on camera and in public, for years. This stuff isnt a secret and his words are not manipulated. Hagge is among the most popular CZ pastors so while I agree (and have already agreed) that he doesn't rep for all CZs, he does speak for a great number of them and he's not alone as a pastor in doing so.

You don't arrive at the truth by assuming something is true because it sounds about right. Everything you believe to be fact should be verifiable if you want anyone else to believe it.

As far as I can see, that quote from Hagee is not a prayer for war, but a prayer for the warriors.

Funny thing about Hagee, I've never listened to him and I don't know anyone who does. I have spent years studying prophecy and talking with fellow Christians who believe in it, and I have never met a single person who listens to him. I know he's touted as one of the leaders of Christian Zionism, but I really think this is more due to his own self-promotion and the media's love for a huckster than any real sway he has. The notion that 30 million Americans, or whatever, are taking their political cues from him is like saying that all black American Christians vote the way Al Sharpton tells them to.

 

[Thunderian]

I feel he may have popped up on another thread with new name and icon. They always seem to quietly exit stage left when hit with anything they can't refute.

You know the game, as I do

Get a grip. I've been posting on this board and previous VC boards for years. I think most people know who I am. I'm not about to leave and come back as another poster because I run up against a hard question.

 

[Thunderian]

I really doubt George Bush said anything about Gog and Magog and I'll explain why.

First, Bush is a Methodist, and they don't do prophecy. The position of most Methodists on end times prophecy is amillennial, which means they reject the idea of prophecy literally coming true. The Methodist position on the Rapture (the touchstone of every wacky end times Christian) is this, quoted from their website:

[We] have no doubts that many pastors and churches are tuning in to this speculative phenomenon. However, it is not central to our approach to discipleship and our theological framework. Wesley and his spiritual children are not into the future in the kind of rapture/left behind approach.​

​

Speculative phenomenon? Doesn't sound like they buy into it. So if Bush believes in end times prophecy, he's not hearing it at church.

Second, Bush has spoken often and openly about his faith, and not once that I can find has he ever mentioned Bible prophecy in any context. He has on multiple occasions, however, stated that he believes that Christians and Muslim worship the same God and that Islam is a religion of peace. Those are not things you're likely to hear an end times Christian say, so if he does believe in end times prophecy, he holds some other, rather startling, positions.

Last, the only quote we find purported to be from Bush on end times prophecy is the one already posted here, which he allegedly said to France's Chirac before the war in Iraq, and it's surely made up. The book it came from, a bio of Bush, has been called inept, and "based on unreliable accounts, factual errors, and wildly implausible judgments." About the alleged God-Magog quote, the author of one rebuttal says:

The conversation is utterly and completely false. Bush never said these words to Chirac or anything of the sort to any other world leader. I have checked with multiple senior people with firsthand knowledge of the call Bush had with Chirac, and all confirmed that Bush never said anything remotely resembling those words.​

​

Knowing what we know about the Methodist church's view of the end times, and what we've heard Bush say publicly about his faith and about Islam, does it make sense that he would say something like that about prophecy?

I will say again, there is no major school of evangelical prophetic thought that views Armageddon as something to be desired. This is a straw man assumed by those ignorant of what believers in end times prophecy actually believe.

 

[TempestOfTempo]

I really doubt George Bush said anything about Gog and Magog and I'll explain why.

First, Bush is a Methodist, and they don't do prophecy. The position of most Methodists on end times prophecy is amillennial, which means they reject the idea of prophecy literally coming true. The Methodist position on the Rapture (the touchstone of every wacky end times Christian) is this, quoted from their website:

[We] have no doubts that many pastors and churches are tuning in to this speculative phenomenon. However, it is not central to our approach to discipleship and our theological framework. Wesley and his spiritual children are not into the future in the kind of rapture/left behind approach.​

​

Speculative phenomenon? Doesn't sound like they buy into it. So if Bush believes in end times prophecy, he's not hearing it at church.

Second, Bush has spoken often and openly about his faith, and not once that I can find has he ever mentioned Bible prophecy in any context. He has on multiple occasions, however, stated that he believes that Christians and Muslim worship the same God and that Islam is a religion of peace. Those are not things you're likely to hear an end times Christian say, so if he does believe in end times prophecy, he holds some other, rather startling, positions.

Last, the only quote we find purported to be from Bush on end times prophecy is the one already posted here, which he allegedly said to France's Chirac before the war in Iraq, and it's surely made up. The book it came from, a bio of Bush, has been called inept, and "based on unreliable accounts, factual errors, and wildly implausible judgments." About the alleged God-Magog quote, the author of one rebuttal says:

The conversation is utterly and completely false. Bush never said these words to Chirac or anything of the sort to any other world leader. I have checked with multiple senior people with firsthand knowledge of the call Bush had with Chirac, and all confirmed that Bush never said anything remotely resembling those words.​

​

Knowing what we know about the Methodist church's view of the end times, and what we've heard Bush say publicly about his faith and about Islam, does it make sense that he would say something like that about prophecy?

I will say again, there is no major school of evangelical prophetic thought that views Armageddon as something to be desired. This is a straw man assumed by those ignorant of what believers in end times prophecy actually believe.

The Gog and Magog quote from Bush is absolutely authentic. Whats even more sinister, Gog and Magog were him and his fathers Skull and Bones club names. This isnt even debatable, that quote is 100% from him and those were the names he and his father chose for their Skull and Bones memberships.

 

[TempestOfTempo]

You don't arrive at the truth by assuming something is true because it sounds about right. Everything you believe to be fact should be verifiable if you want anyone else to believe it.

As far as I can see, that quote from Hagee is not a prayer for war, but a prayer for the warriors.

Funny thing about Hagee, I've never listened to him and I don't know anyone who does. I have spent years studying prophecy and talking with fellow Christians who believe in it, and I have never met a single person who listens to him. I know he's touted as one of the leaders of Christian Zionism, but I really think this is more due to his own self-promotion and the media's love for a huckster than any real sway he has. The notion that 30 million Americans, or whatever, are taking their political cues from him is like saying that all black American Christians vote the way Al Sharpton tells them to.

I have to admit I lost some respect for you with this post. You denied this stuff existed and then when its presented to you in irrefutable, factual form...... you still find a way to excuse it. If you are the person you present yourself as here, you are better than this and its your job to call out those on your end who are wrong.

 

[Kung Fu]

Zionist Evangelical Christians believe all of Palestine belongs to Israel (including the occupied territories) because God gave it to them and not the UN, America, and or UK.

 

[Bacsi]

Confirmation bias - everything supports prophecies for those who believe in them, especially such vague and generic prophecies as the ones in the Bible.