Sophia and the Archons - Lucifer in a dress?

[Red Sky at Morning]

@Kais_1 mentioned "Sophia and the Archons" to me some time ago, and I must admit it sounded like a children's cartoon series. Turns out it wasn't...

If you have a Christian background it is sometimes hard to make sense of what Gnostics even believe so it it worth getting the facts. Many Gnostic texts were recovered from the Nag Hammadi library in North Africa.

You can dig into it a bit deeper here if you want an outline:-

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophia_(Gnosticism)

What really struck me was that if I was Lucifer and I wanted to make myself look like the good guy, this is exactly what I would say!

I watched a couple of good explanations yesterday that somebody might find illuminating.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

philosophy

Origin

​

Middle English: from Old French philosophie, via Latin from Greek philosophia ‘love of wisdom’.

 

[Dalit]

Yes, and I've heard the Holy Spirit referred to as Sophia or she is Wisdom. See William Paul Young's The Shack, which should be treated as a story not as theology. Sadly, I've seen it become more theology for some.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

A couple of interesting quotes on it...

From Genesis 3

4And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: 5For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. 6And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

And Colossians 2

8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Yes, and I've heard the Holy Spirit referred to as Sophia or she is Wisdom. See William Paul Young's The Shack, which should be treated as a story not as theology. Sadly, I've seen it become more theology for some.

I think The Shack works better as an allegory than it does as doctrine. I suspect it was written as the former and is unwisely used for the latter!

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

I'm sure I'm not the only one to have noticed Sophia the AI in recent times:-

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

One more piece of the jigsaw fell into place when I found out that Dan Brown's "Da Vinci Code" is a PR piece for Gnosticism, and yes there is a character called "Sophie" in the storyline.



I must admit, I had avoided the film (as I suspected the pitch of the author at the time). Recently I have looked into its presentation of the authenticity of the Gospels and the counter claims of Gnostic texts. Some of these issues go right to the heart of the debate and misunderstanding that takes place on this forum.

So, if you don't expect ANY glitz or special effects, this presentation by Michael Heiser might be for you. Its a long one but I'm working through it like an orange, one segment at a time.

Part 1: Introductions
Although the hype surrounding the DaVinci Code has left the mainstream media, the ideas persist. Here, speaking in 2006 at the height of the DaVinci controversy, ancient languages scholar and Biblical Hebrew expert Michael Heiser gives us a solid and plain spoken introduction to Gnosticism.

Part 2: Reliability of New Testament Scriptures (esp vs the Nag Hammadi)
Dr. Heiser compares the oldest scriptural texts with the gnostic texts and explains why the New Testament texts are reliable while the gnostic texts aren't.Special attention is paid to the precise dating of New Testament texts, and serves as a primer for all serious students and teachers of the Bible.

P.s. also relevent :-
https://vigilantcitizenforums.com/threads/the-critical-text-criticized.3461/

Part 3: Were Jesus and Mary Madelene married?
Dr. Heiser compares the Gnostic Jesus with the Jesus of the Bible. Was Jesus, as a rabbi, required to marry? Was Mary his companion? His wife? Were these and other secrets buried along with Jesus?These and other questions are examined. Relevant texts, including the gospel accounts and the gnostic texts, are examined. Mr. Heiser shows what is in the text and what isn't. You might just be surprised.

Part 4: Gnosticism and Women
Heiser offers an honest examination of the supposed "pro-woman" message often ascribed to the gnostics. Is gnosticism really "enlightened" in terms of womens' roles.Looking at the actual texts the gnostics themselves wrote, their customs, rituals and spirituality, Heiser makes sense of the nonsense surrounding this ancient and mysterious religion's place for women.

Part 5: Neither Lord nor Christ?
The Belief in Jesus as God before The Council of Nicea and the Exalted Christ of Gnosticism. This is a refutation of two ideas put forth in The DaVinci Code: That Constantine invented the idea that Jesus was God at The Council of Nicea, and that the Gnostic texts portray Jesus as only a mortal man (hint: they do not).

https://youtu.be/SWlAJ0KMrFQ

Part 6: What Really happened at Nicea?
An examination of Constantine's spiritual commitments and the documentary evidence left to history concerning the proceedings at the Council of Nicea.

Part 7: The Conspiratorial Logic of The DaVinci Code and Jesus Bloodline Theorists

Part 8: Jumping the Shark from the Newsroom to the Ivory Tower: Assessing the Gospel of Judas Frenzy

 

[Dalit]

I think The Shack works better as an allegory than it does as doctrine. I suspect it was written as the former and is unwisely used for the latter!

Yes, indeed it has. I have a friend who could introduce me to Wm Paul Young if I asked her, but I'm like "Nope, I'm good."

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Yes, indeed it has. I have a friend who could introduce me to Wm Paul Young if I asked her, but I'm like "Nope, I'm good."

I was just watching this on the "Female Ruach", as expressed in the Sophia AI. If it wasn't actually happening I would suspect I had ate half a block of cheese and then had some very strange dream after reading an apocalyptic thriller...

 

[Colonel Valerio]

I was just watching this on the "Female Reach", as expressed in the Sophia AI. If it wasn't actually happening I would suspect I had ate half a block of cheese and then had some very strange dream after reading an apocalyptic thriller...

Half a block of cheese sounds pretty good mate

 

[Dalit]

I was just watching this on the "Female Reach", as expressed in the Sophia AI. If it wasn't actually happening I would suspect I had ate half a block of cheese and then had some very strange dream after reading an apocalyptic thriller...

She's a citizen in Saudi Arabia, too! Wow, and she does yoga with people and smirks a lot apparently. Doesn't look a thing like Audrey Hepburn. Maybe a little like Jennifer Lawrence?

But, yeah, yet another example of how this is all too crazy for words.

 

[Helioform]

Davinci Code is pretty much BS as there is no evidence that Jesus ever had children. But that does not negate the fact that the Queen of England truly thinks she is a descendant of Jesus.

http://www.hartforth.com/jesus.html

Also the Davinci Code has not much to do with Gnosticism. It just pushes the British Israelism movement with its stupid theories about royal bloodlines being appointed by God. It's a bad strawman.

 

[Colonel Valerio]

Sophia and the Archons is a great name for a band though

 

[Aero]

I forget why Sophia fell from heaven. But the symbolism really means fallen wisdom.

If I remember right Sophia created the Demiurge to try to get back in touch with the "holy spirit". But it didn't work at all or something. And that's when God sent Jesus. A sort of killing two birds with one stone type of plan.

Jesus came so that we all may know the father. And fallen wisdom would no longer suffer through ignorance. So the point I'm getting at is I don't see how Sophia is Lucifer. Sophia is gone, since Jesus came she's been sitting with the father.

When I have more time I'll try to watch those videos, but I feel like I can already tell it's a complete distortion of proto-Christian theology. It would be way easier if you could just explain it to me simply. Tell me how they refute the actual myths.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Davinci Code is pretty much BS as there is no evidence that Jesus ever had children. But that does not negate the fact that the Queen of England truly thinks she is a descendant of Jesus.

http://www.hartforth.com/jesus.html

Also the Davinci Code has not much to do with Gnosticism. It just pushes the British Israelism movement with its stupid theories about royal bloodlines being appointed by God. It's a bad strawman.

I wouldn't have mentioned the DaVinci code other than the fact that it does reference gnostic materials like the Gospel of Phillip. The conclusions Dan Brown is drawing seem to be very much in line with the "oneness" Monism kind of stuff that Sophia the Robot is putting out.

This also touches on other popular nonsense in Gnostic talking shops that I have encountered like "The bloodline of Desoposyni" etc.

https://thetemplarknight.com/2011/03/01/desposyni-the-blood-line-of-jesus/

Michael S Heiser, on the other hand, is exetremely well read around the era he is discussing above and does a good job of setting Sophie, the Archons and perhaps more importantly the Biblical and historical context behind Christian doctrine in place.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

I forget why Sophia fell from heaven. But the symbolism really means fallen wisdom.

If I remember right Sophia created the Demiurge to try to get back in touch with the "holy spirit". But it didn't work at all or something. And that's when God sent Jesus. A sort of killing two birds with one stone type of plan.

Jesus came so that we all may know the father. And fallen wisdom would no longer suffer through ignorance. So the point I'm getting at is I don't see how Sophia is Lucifer. Sophia is gone, since Jesus came she's been sitting with the father.

When I have more time I'll try to watch those videos, but I feel like I can already tell it's a complete distortion of proto-Christian theology. It would be way easier if you could just explain it to me simply. Tell me how they refute the actual myths.

I think you might like Heiser, Aero - he is an academic with a dry, incisive style. He references properly and knows his subject. I like the way that he just draws out the material and sets it in its proper context. I'm still working through it but I have learned a lot and would now have a better shot at a meaningful conversation with Gnostics, I guess!

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Sophia and the Archons is a great name for a band though

I picture a five piece alt rock band with a pretty female singer with a sweet voice and some gnarly bearded guys!

 

[Dalit]

@Kais_1 mentioned "Sophia and the Archons" to me some time ago, and I must admit it sounded like a children's cartoon series. Turns out it wasn't...

If you have a Christian background it is sometimes hard to make sense of what Gnostics even believe so it it worth getting the facts. Many Gnostic texts were recovered from the Nag Hammadi library in North Africa.

You can dig into it a bit deeper here if you want an outline:-

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophia_(Gnosticism)

What really struck me was that if I was Lucifer and I wanted to make myself look like the good guy, this is exactly what I would say!

I watched a couple of good explanations yesterday that somebody might find illuminating.

Started watching the Michael Heiser video and love his first statement about not manipulating sources and sharing sources. That's so important. Even if someone unintentionally hides their source or isn't clear, possibly passing off something that isn't theirs as potentially theirs, that bothers me. That happened recently yet God is telling me not to confront them on it, but be patient and wait. It's part of my warning system to want to confront things before they get worse since I was fooled by NAR and other things and don't want to be fooled again.

Anyway, I used to follow Jory Micah, a Christian feminist, until she said that she couldn't read the epistles because they were written by Paul and, of course, the Old Testament was probably out of the picture or just considered as historical information, so basically just the Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke and John) are the Bible basically. Just the sayings of Jesus. I stopped following her, even though she's a nice person, because it's just not Biblical. She never called God Sophia, yet those in her community may. I found this in my brief research just now into what she says about the sacred feminine or the feminine aspect of God. She uses Scripture, but this lady in her community or circle does not and wrote a book about Sophia and talks about Lilith and Eve. (https://www.monettechilson.com/blog/)

There's even a Sophia Network (https://blog.sophianetwork.org.uk/about.html). By the way, I do believe that women can teach/preach in the church even though it may be best to do so in a team approach, like a husband and wife team, for example. I'm all for women preaching and teaching, just not taking out books of the Bible they don't care for. I hate that women have to leave their denominations or go out as a parachurch or independent ministry in order to teach. Women should be able to teach and not just to other women and to children but in a mixed group. As an old friend of mine who is most likely called to teach said "Who is more vulnerable? Women and children? Or men?"

Anyway, I was taught that archons were part of demonic strongholds. From PRMI.



Hope this is interesting and/or helpful.

My friend who hangs with Wm Paul Young has referred to God as She or Light at times and I've wondered about that.

 

[Aero]

I think you might like Heiser, Aero - he is an academic with a dry, incisive style. He references properly and knows his subject. I like the way that he just draws out the material and sets it in its proper context. I'm still working through it but I have learned a lot and would now have a better shot at a meaningful conversation with Gnostics, I guess!

Sure he seems pretty smart. Seems like a lot of the videos go over stuff I already know though, or they contain particulars I'm not very interested in. Plus it's going to take more than words and text to convince me its all bunk.

When people talk about the dates of official religious documents it just doesn't mean anything to me. Like if we both decided to write a book about installing car stereos, but you got yours finished and to market before mine. Your book coming out first doesn't magically make it the best book.

In one of your previous statements, you said something like. Gnosticism is exactly the type of trick Lucifer would try to pull on us. And I'm here to inform you, that's a fallacy. It's called a fallacy of false dilemma. That's kind of what this whole thread seems wrapped around. Some of you are assuming there is only a black and white answer here.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Sure he seems pretty smart. Seems like a lot of the videos go over stuff I already know though, or they contain particulars I'm not very interested in. Plus it's going to take more than words and text to convince me its all bunk.

When people talk about the dates of official religious documents it just doesn't mean anything to me. Like if we both decided to write a book about installing car stereos, but you got yours finished and to market before mine. Your book coming out first doesn't magically make it the best book.

In one of your previous statements, you said something like. Gnosticism is exactly the type of trick Lucifer would try to pull on us. And I'm here to inform you, that's a fallacy. It's called a fallacy of false dilemma. That's kind of what this whole thread seems wrapped around. Some of you are assuming there is only a black and white answer here.

You are entirely right, Aero.

I am just telling you what I honestly believe to be the truth. I am not trying infer that the beliefs I hold are the only ones for which a logical case might be made. In fact, I would not want to force my view on anyone, just provide the reasons why I have come the views I have.