You are put on unignore since the shepherde is gracious L0L
I see you quote bible verses which state that the Father of Jesus Christ is God.
Good we agree on that.
The question is if Jesus Christ is God ?
Bad we don't agree on that.
Can it be that God is a little like man who is composed of three parts (body soul and spirit) ? God is of course much greater than man and so can it be that God is at least but probably more complex than man ? And since man is still somewhat of a mystery... can it be that God is more mysterious still ?
All good questions and i suspect the answer is yes yes yes.
Now nobody is denying that the Father of Jesus Christ is God... but is the Logos who became the Son also God ? That is as part of a triune nature (like man) together with the Holy spirit ?
Some of the sayings of Jesus are unequivocally something only God would say (or a madman). Christians don't believe Jesus is a madman... but a lot of jews do. Can it be that God like man is composed of three parts ? If so then the Father the Logos/Son and the Holy spirit together make up God... (akin like body soul and spirit make up man).
John 5 22Furthermore, the Father judges no one, but has assigned all judgment to the Son, 23so that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.
John 8 23Then He told them, “You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. 24That is why I told you that you would die in your sins. For unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”
John 8 58“Truly, truly, I tell you,” Jesus declared, “before Abraham was, I am!”
John 14 6Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. 7If you had known Me, you would know My Father as well. From now on you do know Him and have seen Him.”
Now i know that Jesus is God is not halal in the quran and islam... but that's not my problem. I have shown biblical evidence that there is a God wannabe on the temple mount... so the ball is in your court.
Do you want to honour God or a God wannabe ?
1) are you the shepherd?
ive explained to you...that the body and mind are NOT the soul.
The sadducee's made the mistake of equating the 'self' with the body. Hence in their philosophy, to murder Jesus meant 'he is DONE/FINISHED' whereas Jesus said
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
2)
that God is at least but probably more complex than man ? And since man is still somewhat of a mystery... can it be that God is more mysterious still ?
you were constantly peddling the argument that the bible is all that matters, now appealing to some mystery.
yet it was me who explained that
Ther eis a left brain logical truth and a right brain mystical truth.
from the left brain, God is not contained inside His creation and is Trancendent.
from the right brain, God's presence can be felt anywhere you like, He is Immanent in all things.
As far as the nature of the LOGOS is concerned..whether it is the macrocosm or the holy spirit on the microcosmic level..these are the modes through which God's Immanence is revealed.
here's the thing, the grand 'mystery'...
that God is IMMANENT IN ALL THINGS and this was the essence of Jesus's message.
Whilst the common jewish theologian made God distant as a Trancendent Godhead who is far removed from man and our earthly problems....Jesus wanted people to hold the SINGLE EYE ie to see ONENESS IN ALL...
hence 'to the pure all things are pure'.
this is not true from the left brain pov but it is true from the right brain pov.
islam is a religion of balance and hence it is said
Imam Malik (r) said, “Whoever studies jurisprudence (fiqh) and didn’t study Sufism (tasawwuf) will be corrupted; and whoever studied tasawwuf and didn’t study jurisprudence will become a heretic; and whoever combined both will be reach the Truth.”
here, jurisprudence refers to the Logical truth whilst tasawuff to the mystical.
apply this to the jews in the time of Jesus. They were very good in matters of LAW and logic, but lacked in the mystical connection to God, hence 'corrupt'.
Acts 2:40
With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, “Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.”
and the latter wherein a person holds all these mystical beliefs but loses sight of the logical truth, they lose their way in what is right and wrong or true and false, and become heretics.
Hence my argument is that
John 1:1 specfiically highlights both perspectives.
it states that The WORD WAS WITH GOD (logically this is the correct theology and i accept it, the LOGOS/WORD is God's Eternal expression. Within that, the logos is the sum of all things 'else than God' and hence it contains everything. Your entire story, has existed with God, in the LOGOS eternally'. hence even your true origin is the LOGOS.
now where i go out of scripture partially (but not really) is where i compare this concept to that of many other belief systems/mythologies.
the LOGOS has been symolically described in ancient beliefs, as THE PRIMORDIAL WATERS/WATERY ABYSS. in sufism even as the PRIMORDIAL INK.
so our story, is interesting. our SPIRIT is a drop of that water..and will return to it.
However our soul, mind and body are coming from the ink..that is, our destiny, our story, personality etc.
within all of that, for what it's worth, i view hell like evaporation. the water dissolves and returns to the source in a different way to the drops that join with rivers and return to the sea that way.
btw even this stuff, is heavy in christian literature. there are millions of christian texts, ive read many at random over the past 20 years.
However if i had to get closer to core scripture, id say that, Genesis 1 may begin with
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
however the rest of it then goes into detail explaining the process...
and hence it really begins here
2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
this is just mythology in writing, it was for the simple minds of the wandering israelites. 'the earth' being formeless and empty, means there was nothing...except the WATERS and the spirit of God.
the spirit of God HOVERING over the waters, was the Holy Spirit coming from the LOGOS.
here, the Waters is the same LOGOS.
what came from the holy spirit?
3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness.
light (wisdom) and darkness...and hence alpha and omega (Revelation 1).
However just to be clear with you. In islamic sufism, the actions of Jesus would be the actions of GOD. from the mystical pov, Jesus is God, not literally, not logically, and not to be said openly because you have to cater to the lowest common denominator. However to the initiated, Jesus is God because Jesus put his carnal nature to death and hence everything he did...was God acting through him. From that pov, it's like if you look at yourself in a mirror, you still view the reflection as your own self. in this sense, it is God acting through Jesus anyway.
However this approach is not limited to Jesus. The logos incarnated in Jesus, which means Jesus unique...but to still limit the Immanence of God and the logos to a single entity is wrong..the logos is everywhere because ultimately it is akin to a prism revealing God's light, His Immanence etc.
Jesus's primary mission, was to open peoples hearts and minds so they could have that inner connection to God and not rely on third parties and theology.
key example..if you were in a nature spot right now and looked all around..
is God present in that place? logically, NO. God is not contained inside His creation. God is TRancendent.
from the mystical pov, you could easily perceive God and hence God would be present, for you.
the quotes you've offered, in light of my beliefs as above, mean that i can tell the difference between 2 different perspectives and understand that the mystical is personal and subjective anyway.
if i can perceive of God when looking up at the stars...and then i fell down in worship...i would appear to be a star worshipper.
i understand you're essentially claiming that everything Jesus was, was basically God acting through this appearance if you will...and i have no issue with that. i dont regard the appearance, from a logical pov, as 'God', only from the mystical pov. Yet again, that approach, coming from the 'single eye', oneness of being...is a big part of sufi islam
Ibn Arabi takes us on a journey to explore the mysterious relationship between existence, non-existence, God, creation, and much more, in his fascinating and controversial theory of reality, known as the ‘Unity of Being’.
www.thecollector.com
authentic christianity is not much different to sufi islam btw. authentic christianity was THE ORDER OF MELCKEZIDEK.
3) Jesus came...after over 1200 years of mosaic law and jewish theology.
the Quran came to a pagan arab civilisation who had zero knowledge of all things abrahimic except that they came from abraham. in one instance Mohammad took down an image depicting Abraham practicing divination. Mohammad said 'they know he didnt practice divination'.
the point being that these people required a back to basics scripture that wasnt complicated with 3 in 1 mystical theology.
besides...ive often spoken to christians on here about people like philo, St augustine etc.
when iw as young, i read a book of Rumi's..and held close to my heart, a certain 'saying'. I discovered years later, that it was actually from St Augustine..
God is the
Lover,
Beloved, and
Love
islam focuses more on the attribute RAHMA.
That is, Allah is Rahmah aswell as the bestower of Rahma.
hence the words
Bismillah IrRahman IrRaheem
which btw, represent the true underlying idea behind the trinity.
Bismillah represents the Trancendence Absolute nature of God, IrRahman represents the macrocosmic expression and IrRaheem/creation 'bestowing of Mercy' the macrocosmic.
4) you never showed me evidence, only your warped interpretations suggesting you've suffered brain damage.
isaiah 14 is about the king of babylon.the term 'lucifer/morning star' is only reflecting the position of a king..as WISE. ie lucifer represents the wise king. Hence in Revelation, the holy spirit will bestow the morning star to kings
26 To the one who is victorious and does my will to the end, I will give authority over the nations— 27 that one ‘will rule them with an iron scepter and will dash them to pieces like pottery’[b]—just as I have received authority from my Father. 28 I will also give that one the morning star. 2
hindus dont typically use the word 'mount of congregation', but they also hold similar views concerning the day of judgement. However in their beliefs, their locations are within their own nation. just like they bathe in the ganges river.
the point being, just because some pagan religion believed in a mount of congregation, doesnt mean it was JERUSALEM. they had their own.
jerusalem was not sacred to them. the king of babylon destroyed the temple and jerusalem.
where in the bible did it ever say that SATAN wanted to occupy THE temple mount for 1000 years? nowhere.
