Free Will And Salvation

[TheOtherside]

I'm gonna need the Vigilant Citizen Forums to chime in here - the concepts of free will and salvation have been bothering me lately.

There have been debates throughout our history on if humans have free will. I see good arguments on both sides, but one thing that bugs me is that we don't have absolute free will. I do not have the freedom to jump 100 feet in the air; it is impossible. I do not have the freedom to choose my own chemicals - I'm stuck with being a dopamine factory. Because I don't have absolute free will, how can I be on the hook for my failures? I'm addicted to things - I want to exercise my free will to get rid of these desires. But I can't. It's very hard to understand how my salvation hinges on this. What's going on here?

Was it really Adam and Eve's fault for eating the fruit? Why was the fruit there in the first place? Why did they desire it when reality could have been structured differently? They didn't choose the structure. How can the Creator set up the structure, and then get mad when we inevitably fail? Of course we will fail, and fail horribly. I don't fully understand how it can be offensive to God when God set it all up. If I place children in an empty room full of marshmallows, I can't be that mad when they inevitably eat the marshmallows.

Is this just something we have to live with? We do our best to trust the test, try to pass the test, and leave the rest to God? Very difficult to make sense of all of this. Which is why I'm calling upon Phipps and Lisa (two legends) to get in here and discuss.

 

[Alanantic]

Considering the endless list of factors required for anything to happen, one can only admit that everything is responsible for everything, however remote. Doership is a myth born from the illusion of 'me' and 'mine'. – Nisargadatta

 

[Maldarker]

I'm gonna need the Vigilant Citizen Forums to chime in here - the concepts of free will and salvation have been bothering me lately.

There have been debates throughout our history on if humans have free will. I see good arguments on both sides, but one thing that bugs me is that we don't have absolute free will. I do not have the freedom to jump 100 feet in the air; it is impossible. I do not have the freedom to choose my own chemicals - I'm stuck with being a dopamine factory. Because I don't have absolute free will, how can I be on the hook for my failures? I'm addicted to things - I want to exercise my free will to get rid of these desires. But I can't. It's very hard to understand how my salvation hinges on this. What's going on here?

Was it really Adam and Eve's fault for eating the fruit? Why was the fruit there in the first place? Why did they desire it when reality could have been structured differently? They didn't choose the structure. How can the Creator set up the structure, and then get mad when we inevitably fail? Of course we will fail, and fail horribly. I don't fully understand how it can be offensive to God when God set it all up. If I place children in an empty room full of marshmallows, I can't be that mad when they inevitably eat the marshmallows.

Is this just something we have to live with? We do our best to trust the test, try to pass the test, and leave the rest to God? Very difficult to make sense of all of this. Which is why I'm calling upon Phipps and Lisa (two legends) to get in here and discuss.

but you do have freedom to jump 100 ft in the air... but as for everything in life boundaries exist.

 

[TheOtherside]

but you do have freedom to jump 100 ft in the air... but as for everything in life boundaries exist.

You get what I mean though. You don't have the freedom to do what you can't do. If you are saying you can technically achieve 100 feet altitude, then change it to 1,000,000 miles. I can't jump 1,000,000 miles from standing on the ground. I can't run at 400 miles per hour, and I can't lift 75 million pounds. These things seem insane, but it's only insane because of our pre-set boundaries. Maybe we need to live life assuming that we opted in to the pre-set boundaries? At least that way it makes some sense. Before we were born, we spoke with God and said "send me in", then he wiped our memories and we started over. Sounds crazy but at least I agreed to the pre-set boundaries in that scenario.

 

[Karlysymon]

I'm gonna need the Vigilant Citizen Forums to chime in here - the concepts of free will and salvation have been bothering me lately.

There have been debates throughout our history on if humans have free will. I see good arguments on both sides, but one thing that bugs me is that we don't have absolute free will. I do not have the freedom to jump 100 feet in the air; it is impossible. I do not have the freedom to choose my own chemicals - I'm stuck with being a dopamine factory. Because I don't have absolute free will, how can I be on the hook for my failures? I'm addicted to things - I want to exercise my free will to get rid of these desires. But I can't. It's very hard to understand how my salvation hinges on this. What's going on here?

Over the last couple of years (nothing to do with covid), i've come to the realization and appreciation of how God deeply, deeply respects free will. To me, it says ALOT about the Sovereign of the universe and the restraint He exercises given that He has the ability to quash, trample or outright withhold it.

What you seem to be arguing here is that you should have had absolute free will to decide, while you were a day-old fetus in your mother's womb, whether you wanted to be a boy or a girl or whether you should have frog or cat genes. Does a toddler even have the mental capacity to make such decisions? God has determined, beforehand, what every living thing should be and it seems you are confusing that with free will. You can never be an angel any more than angel can be human (even with glorified bodies at the end of the age)...any more than you can be a God because you just can't be.

Yes, we live in a fallen world and there are physical limitations to what we can be. Free will is the only thing that makes rebellion possible. Without it, there would have been no Fall. If you really want a vivid and personal example of free will, that you can apply to the spiritual world, just look at what happened with Covid and the vaccines. Every "functioning" adult made a choice to either get the shot or not....blaming Fauci, the Nudge Units, the media doesn't negate your conscious decision. The same can be said of salvation...you have to make a conscious decision to love the Lord or not.

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. John 3:16

 

[Maldarker]

You get what I mean though. You don't have the freedom to do what you can't do. If you are saying you can technically achieve 100 feet altitude, then change it to 1,000,000 miles. I can't jump 1,000,000 miles from standing on the ground. I can't run at 400 miles per hour, and I can't lift 75 million pounds. These things seem insane, but it's only insane because of our pre-set boundaries. Maybe we need to live life assuming that we opted in to the pre-set boundaries? At least that way it makes some sense. Before we were born, we spoke with God and said "send me in", then he wiped our memories and we started over. Sounds crazy but at least I agreed to the pre-set boundaries in that scenario.

i do. And that's why the comment on pre set boundaries. Quite possible about mind wiped bible says before you where i knew you (Romans 4:17)

 

[A Freeman]

I'm gonna need the Vigilant Citizen Forums to chime in here - the concepts of free will and salvation have been bothering me lately.

There have been debates throughout our history on if humans have free will. I see good arguments on both sides, but one thing that bugs me is that we don't have absolute free will. I do not have the freedom to jump 100 feet in the air; it is impossible. I do not have the freedom to choose my own chemicals - I'm stuck with being a dopamine factory. Because I don't have absolute free will, how can I be on the hook for my failures? I'm addicted to things - I want to exercise my free will to get rid of these desires. But I can't. It's very hard to understand how my salvation hinges on this. What's going on here?

Was it really Adam and Eve's fault for eating the fruit? Why was the fruit there in the first place? Why did they desire it when reality could have been structured differently? They didn't choose the structure. How can the Creator set up the structure, and then get mad when we inevitably fail? Of course we will fail, and fail horribly. I don't fully understand how it can be offensive to God when God set it all up. If I place children in an empty room full of marshmallows, I can't be that mad when they inevitably eat the marshmallows.

Is this just something we have to live with? We do our best to trust the test, try to pass the test, and leave the rest to God? Very difficult to make sense of all of this. Which is why I'm calling upon Phipps and Lisa (two legends) to get in here and discuss.

We have all been given the free-will to choose between good and evil, as they are defined by God, in His Law (Deut. 30:15-20).

The "fruit" that Adam and Eve chose to eat, against God's Command (given for our individual and collective benefit), was from the "tree" of the knowledge of good AND evil (satanic lies, mixed together with a bit of the truth).

Genesis 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good (Truth) and evil (lies), thou shalt NOT eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die (in confusion, not knowing good/truth/right from evil/lies/wrong).

What we don't have is the freedom to do whatever we wish, e.g. the freedom to leave this planet, or to exercise our super-human powers (free from the confines of these human bodies) undisciplined, for good reason (Rev. 12:7-9); we were sent here to this prison reform school to learn how to be good (Gen. 1:26), and to establish the self-discipline to never turn back (Luke 9:23; Gal. 2:20; 2 Pet. 2).

Despite these temporary human limitations, we have been given UNLIMITED access to the greatest Power/Force in the Universe: the power of Love, which can defeat every evil, and bless every good. Sadly, very few choose to access that power, and fewer yet learn to use it, to make this world a better place for all concerned.