shankara
Star
- Joined
- Apr 23, 2018
- Messages
- 1,322
Maybe I have a slightly less optimistic vision of things. Yes, I do think there is some reason to be troubled by what is going on with the climate, I don't think it is quite so prosaic as simply natural cycles. It seems to me quite intuitive that burning oil would cause some kind of alteration of the climate, and that we really need to stop doing it. Sure, the big oil companies will put on the front of sustainability because it is profitable in these times when everyone is worried about it. Maybe the governments and such will even create a more sustainable situation, but I have the feeling that such a transition will be quite dystopic for the majority of humanity.Wow, you sound so panic-stricken! What if I told you that the climate of the Earth has been in constant flux for its entire existence? At several points in its history, it was a volcanic free-for-all, with hot gasses and ash spumes creating an environment so hot and so toxic that plant and animal life couldn't exist. And at other times, it was the opposite--so cold that frozen oceans covered massive areas, and the plant and animal life was relegated to a narrow band around the equator. For the last 12,000-20,000 years, the temperature has been gradually rising, causing the end of the last Ice Age (you know, like the animated movie) and shifts in ecologies and plant and animal proliferation. It's funny how the purveyors of the agitprop you've been inundated with leave out those rather salient facts.
And--not only is climate change not the fault of human beings, but we have actually been making positive changes over the last 50 years or so. Any one who was alive in the 60's/70's can tell you, back then, the skies in the US were grey with soot and pollutants, and every surface was covered with a film of grime. Even if you watch an old movie from that period, you can see it in the outdoor scenes. The environmental awareness spawned by the hippie movement had real effects on govt. regulation of industry, and it took off like a rocket in the 80's, when scientists started measuring the effects of pollution and catching the factories red-handed. Currently, the problem seems much more prevalent in Asia than in the US or Europe. Beijing looks today like NY did in the 70's.
Don't think wee didn't catch that little "it's all capitalism's fault" jab in your terribly argument. Like most of the other Hegelian stuff you are parroting, it's a specious accusation. At the very least it is blown out of proportion, and at worst, completely fabricated to make you feel guilty for existing, for consuming, for shopping. (you villain, you!) How about instead of flagellating yourself and attempting to flagellate your peers, you do a bit more research into the matter. Our fellow VCers have given you some great starting points. I myself have done enough research to feel fairly satisfied that people are coming up wih new ideas and technologies every day to make our lives cleaner and less impactful on the environment overall.
As someone else mentioned, it is imperative that we keep a better eye on the honchos at the top of the economic pyramid. they're the ones dropping the ball on recycling, sourcing raw materials responsibly, and husbanding the resources that we do use in the most efficient ways possible. It isn't simply a matter of greed, either. If they didn't think they could get away with it, they wouldn't be. That's human nature. The grassroots movements in the 80's provide a good blueprint, and now we have the internet to use to gain direct access to the companies that are the worst offenders. You buy stuff from the Top Ten Plastics Polluters everyday.
10 Worst Plastic Polluting Companies Found by Global Cleanups - EcoWatch
Coca-Cola, PepsiCo and Nestlé were identified as the world's biggest producers of plastic trash in global cleanups and brand audits, a report from Greenpeace and the Break Free From Plastic movement reveals. Over nine months, volunteers sorted through 187,000 pieces of plastic trash collected...www.ecowatch.com
Write them letters/emails, organize a protest outside a corporate office, get active, if your so worried about it.
Find us some alternative sources for gassing up our cars than the bastards on this list:
Revealed: the 20 firms behind a third of all carbon emissions
New data shows how fossil fuel companies have driven climate crisis despite industry knowing dangerswww.theguardian.com
Information is power. You have the same access to it, via the internet, as anyone. Arm yourself, educate yourself, and make the change happen that you want to see. Even if it's just one thing, one tiny thing, it's still something, and it's important.
Denying that climate change is happening, putting it down to things like chemtrails, seems like exactly the "Hegelian" thing you are accusing me of. I really think that such an idea is part of a wider agenda, which is pretty much how I feel about a lot of conspiracy theories these days. You mention my putting the blame on capitalism, yes capitalism is responsible for a lot of the badness going on. American capitalism in particular, the kind which brings "freedom and democracy" to the world by military coups against socialist governments. But to be completely clear, I am not a communist at all, communism is even more nightmarish. The whole thing is a false dichotomy, obscuring the hopeful possibility of some kind of society organised by a principle of human solidarity.
That there is a crisis, is not in itself a problem. Crises are a part of the human condition, the climatic problems we are experiencing included. In fact we are faced with a great opportunity to develop solidarity, something which could be of lasting use, making human life just a little more bearable. Conspiracy theories seem very much a "hipster" kind of thing to me, like you aren't a "real conspiracy theorist" unless you conform to some sorts of particular dogmas and tenets. I'm sure there is useful information in the things people are pointing me to, but I also think there is a bit of a hall of mirrors kind of situation going on where people are just looking for confirmation of their ideas, which are mixed with a kind of grandiosity of being the "one who knows" (not one of the "sheeple" or whatever).
As much as I hate to affirm anything @Tidal says, he does have a point about the glaciers melting. Maybe things won't be so extreme as they are predicting, who knows. But as many problems as I have with the current scientific paradigm, when it comes to purely empirical stuff, science pretty much works. Yeah there is some monetary influence, this is obvious, but there are also tons of independent researchers affiliated with universities and stuff. A lot of them are very sincere people, who would surely go and speak out about climate change being some agenda if they found it to be that way. "You can fool some people sometimes, but you can't fool all the people all the time".
I don't think that what is happening will lead to total apocalypse. But I do think it is a possible opportunity for humanity to make some changes. Simply denying things is just another ego game so far as I can see, a way of shrinking from facts into opinion and speculation. Fact is, a couple of years ago we had the hottest year ever on record here, and this year there has hardly been a real summer at all. You're saying that things like a record hot year are just part of a normal kind of adjustment of the planet? Because it seems to me like something like that would be very gradual.
When the ice caps melt, then things are going to heat up even more, there will be a kind of viscious circle. We might not even be able to stop that at this point. Anyway, I guess what I'm trying to say is, that it seems to me very obvious that a society based on fossil fuel addiction is going to be as precarious and unpleasant as the life of any junkie. We can develop whatever kind of rationalizations of the habit, or we can sober up.
