BTS discussion thread

eyes@wide@open

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Guys,I have a question...do you remember german references in bt* songs?
I think the wings album was based on Hermann Hesse’s book Demian. He was German and really into eastern mysticism. Lots of armi started to read this book after bt5 heavily pushed it. Look at the no of reviews for this book from bt5 fans.

 

Asahiisback

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I think the wings album was based on Hermann Hesse’s book Demian. He was German and really into eastern mysticism. Lots of armi started to read this book after bt5 heavily pushed it. Look at the no of reviews for this book from bt5 fans.

Thank you so much,I didn't remembered that Herman Hesse was german..i saw amy's comments,they thanked turtle for recommending the book.
 

eyes@wide@open

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I think the wings album was based on Hermann Hesse’s book Demian. He was German and really into eastern mysticism. Lots of armi started to read this book after bt5 heavily pushed it. Look at the no of reviews for this book from bt5 fans.

Also The Pied Piper fable was originally called der Rattenfänger von Hameln set in Hamelin (Hameln), Germany.
 

eyes@wide@open

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Also The Pied Piper fable was originally called der Rattenfänger von Hameln set in Hamelin (Hameln), Germany.
and I remember someone in this forum posted that they did a creepy photoshoot at the Holocaust memorial in Berlin wearing Nazi hats but this was a few years back :(

 

Asahiisback

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Also The Pied Piper fable was originally called der Rattenfänger von Hameln set in Hamelin (Hameln), Germany.
Thanks again♡♡
"There are many contradictory theories about the Pied Piper. Some suggest he was a symbol of hope to the people of Hamelin, which had been attacked by plague; he drove the rats from Hamelin, saving the people from the epidemic.[2]

I searched about pied piper on wikipedia,bt* song maintained imo this contradictory,I think this is for the duality concept
 

Asahiisback

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and I remember someone in this forum posted that they did a creepy photoshoot at the Holocaust memorial in Berlin wearing Nazi hats but this was a few years back :(

Nazi were satanists,do you think they did the photoshoot for gain power?
 

tzollld

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Guys,I have a question...do you remember german references in bt* songs?
In "dope" theres also this cryptic poster with a german message in the back.
I can speak German.
it says "keine profite mit der miete", which means "no profits from the rent".
Kinda cryptic, not sure what it is supposed to mean exactly
 

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jem123

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I think the wings album was based on Hermann Hesse’s book Demian. He was German and really into eastern mysticism. Lots of armi started to read this book after bt5 heavily pushed it. Look at the no of reviews for this book from bt5 fans.

If BTS tells armi's to read the s*a*t*an*ic books, they would, even those that are religious. So sad and dangerous
 

Asahiisback

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In "dope" theres also this cryptic poster with a german message in the back.
I can speak German.
it says "keine profite mit der miete", which means "no profits from the rent".
Kinda cryptic, not sure what it is supposed to mean exactly
Wow,I didn't noticed,thanks♡♡I wonder what it means "no profits from the rent" in bt* language
 

e-Enoch

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In "dope" theres also this cryptic poster with a german message in the back.
I can speak German.
it says "keine profite mit der miete", which means "no profits from the rent".
Kinda cryptic, not sure what it is supposed to mean exactly
Here's an interesting site that explains the meaning/relevance of the German quotes in the betees song "dope.."


If the link doesn't work, here's the copypasted article...

ARMY's
Join
Dope MV - The story behind the german slogans

asavakit 09/06/17
5268200
Hello International Lovelies,

today, I’m doing something I have sworn myself I wouldn’t do. It is a blog to explain something rather difficult that isn’t a theory. But I’ll try my best.

┌─── ★⋅☆⋅★ ───┐

⚠ Long post ahead! ⚠

└─── ★⋅☆⋅★ ───┘

The reason, why I thought, I should do this, is because I have noticed a question on a homepage that is used in Germany to ask other people random questions. It’s the “gute-frage.de” homepage, which translates literally to “good-question”. A lot of people are on that page to ask and answer all kind of questions.
I stumbled upon one, that I thought I could easily explain, but it wasn’t. But I made my research, because I was curious myself, and well, here I am, sharing my gained information with you.

════ ☆★☆ ════

As you all know, BTS likes to take reference to other things like Herman Hesses Demian or the quote from Nitzsche in Blood Sweat & Tears and the Wings Shorts Films in general. Well, that wasn’t the first time, they have used references to german sayings or books.

I have to warn in advance, I had to use google translate for a lot of things in this blog, so I can’t guarantee really good English.

════ ☆★☆ ════

If you watch the Dope MV closely, you can read a well-known slogan in the background.












It says “Keine Profite mit der Miete”, which translates to “no profit with rents”.
I said it is well-known, at least it is in Germany.
This slogan was often used in the last preelections, because the rents were getting too expensive.

I don’t really know, when this issue started, but in 2013 I think was the year with the biggest issue. There were a lot of demonstrations because of that.
Investment in real estate has always been worthwhile in capitalism. It promises security in a system that cannot survive without crises. In the current real estate (in 2013) and financial crisis, German real estate had more than ever the image of the safe "Betongold" (concrete gold). Money is not only safely "parked", with the potential to increase rent gaining profit out of it was getting more and more attractive. As a result, the cost of living increased sharply for tenants, and they were increasingly forced to leave their homes involuntarily. The fact that their home, their refuge and center of one’s life was at stake for them, had no place in the bigger picture of the investors.

Politicians had long denied the growing shortage of housing and instead privatized public housing. The (inner) cities were specifically "upgraded" by the responsible people. There were no longer places to live, to meet and communicate, but "sites" in the capitalist competition for investors, buoyant tourists and Co. Those who were not able to pay the rent had to leave.

Meanwhile, in many cities, however, the resistance of those who did not rely on the false promises of the politicians was growing, but the lack of affordable living space was already causing them to stand with their backs against the wall and they needed to take their fate into their own hands. In Hamburg, thousands regularly went on the streets against the madness of the hustle and bustle. In Berlin, residents were blocking the eviction notices of their neighbors. In Düsseldorf, Frankfurt and Munich and elsewhere, those who could not afford the city, which was run like a company and marketed as a commodity, organized demonstrations themselves.







Because of that, a nationwide week of action was organized in June 2013 in which people in Germany were asked to participate in activities that had the purpose to address the problem and to wake the politicians. On 28th September, was a call for a nationwide action day, in which large actions took place in many cities throughout Germany.
They were saying, that the cities belong to everyone, not only the ones, who hold the real estate.
The slogan “Keine Profite mit der Miete” was born. The people were saying, that no one should make profit out of rent, because rent usually is paid to cover the expenses.





════ ☆★☆ ════

In German law, we even have the constitution of Inviolability of the home (Art. 13 GG), meaning, that every person in Germany has a right to have a home and the right that no one can violate that. That is why an eviction notice is a huge deal in Germany!

Houses were rented out for speculative reasons and were then empty, in order to be utilized more profitably later. Although there was a lack of living space and places for culture and social projects, there were quite a few areas where office and residential properties were empty in some cities, while open spaces were unused. Those, who still moved in (without permission), acted against the law.
Forcing evictions were the most drastic expression of the madness of rent. In particular, recipients of unemployment benefit (ALG II) were affected - rents exceeded quickly the rules, debts and foreclosures were the result. But even with one’s own income one was no longer protected from evacuation: if there was the legal possibility to get more money out of an apartment than before, possibilities were found to get the lodger out of the apartment.

The slogan “Keine Profite mit der Miete”, was used to address the politicians that they do something about that. I couldn't find anything on the internet regarding, if the demos had any effect on the politicians, so I asked my parents. In 2013 there were elections of the "Bundestag", our parliament. To be elected, politicians had to act. So, it was established, that no one can raise rent just because they like to. I haven't found an explicit law regarding this, but I know for a fact, that there is some kind of regulation now, that doesn't allow random rent raising.
But still, rents in Germany are still increasing every year and it’s getting harder and harder to find affordable apartments in cities. Even in the country the situation is not better (I’m looking for a flat myself), and inner cities (or downtowns) are slowly dying.

┌─── ★⋅☆⋅★ ───┐

But why is this slogan
in the Dope MV?
└─── ★⋅☆⋅★ ───┘





Well, to understand that, we have to look at the lyrics. A lot of other, better informed ARMYs have already covered a little bit of the lyrics.
emberxfae has done a good explanation on the 3-, 5- and "give up generation", so I’ll just link her blog here, so you can read it for yourself.

The meaning behind the lyrics






If you remember, she explained, that the generations in Korea have to give up a lot if they want to achieve at least one thing (courtship, marriage, childbirth, employment, home ownership, interpersonal relationships, or hope). She referred to the high cost of living in Korea.
“When it comes to cost of living, the Seoul Metropolitan Area is one of the world’s most expensive spaces to reside in. The city’s price-to-income ratio (PIR) is larger than other major cities such as Vancouver and San Francisco. An average Korean must save all their income for almost 17 years in order to buy a house for themselves, in doing so they will have to sacrifice many aspects that are - or more like were - present their life. “
- Quote taken from her blog.

So, as you see, Korea has the same problem as Germany had in 2013. People in Seoul can’t afford the cost of living and have to move, if they want to have a normal standard life, and not have to pay all their income on rent. “Keine Profite mit der Miete!”, or “No profits with rent!” seems to be perfect for Korea as well.

════ ☆★☆ ════

As I was researching that topic, another slogan caught my eye. Sadly, I don’t have a really good picture of it, I swear I had searched the internet, so you have to cope with my bad screenshotting skills.






Also in the background, you could say, on the other side in the same scene, you can read behind BTS the slogan “Friede den Hütten! Krieg den Palästen!”, which translates roughly to “Peace to the huts! War to the palaces!”






This slogan came from way back in 1834 and was printed into the “Hessische Landbote”, a kind of newspaper in Hessen. It was a flyer, written by Georg Büchner and edited by Friedrich Ludwig Weidig, that was released on 31 July of 1834 without the knowledge of the dukedom (I hope this is translated correctly: Großherzugtum).



Ich hasse solche alten Texte mit dem bescheuerten "s" @german ARMYs



The pamphlet starts with a short "preliminary report" (with behavioral instructions to the readers, how they handle the illegal text best) with the call: "Friede den Hütten! Krieg den Palästen! "

The authors compare the social conditions in Hessen at that time with a (modified) example from the Bible's creation story, provocatively asking whether, unlike Genesis, the "peasants and craftsmen" were created on the fifth instead of the sixth day and, consequently, compared to the animals which could be arbitrarily controlled by the men who were created on the sixth day, "the princes and nobles." In addition, the authors denounce the judiciary as the "whore of the princes"; she was "only a means of keeping you in order, so that you might be better off."

The basic motif of this argument, which runs through the entire text, is the connection of this Biblical Ductus with the list of figures on the (high) tax revenues and (meaningless) issues of the Dukedom of Hessen. Thus, Büchner and Weidig tried to convince the faithful people of the urgency of a revolution and of the justification of an uprising against the Dukedom and of the political order, according to the view at that time "by God's grace."


════ ☆★☆ ════

The Hessian Landbote is to be understood as a revolt of the rural population, both against the aristocratic upper class and (at least in Büchner's original) against the rich, liberal bourgeoisie, with Weidig later replacing Büchner's concept "the rich" to mitigate the latter criticism. Historically, the Hambach Festival was preceded by the opposition of all the population strata, but unable to agree on a common action against the ruling class. This became clear in the badly organized and therefore quickly defeated Frankfurter Wachensturm. An agreement on a broad scale could not be achieved, especially since the liberal bourgeoisie was always able to withdraw itself with small concessions and promises from the aristocracy. But this was useless to the poor and hungry Hessian peasantry, who, though occasioned by occasional protests, were violently beaten, as in the massacre of Sodel in 1830.

This is why the peasants in the landlord were asked to bring about a revolution against both the ruling and the propertied class. According to Büchner, "only the necessary need for large mass changes can be made." In later writings, Büchner expresses even more clearly, perhaps more resignedly, a letter to Gutzkow expresses his belief that the people cannot be moved to revolution by idealism: "And the great class itself? For them, there are only two levers, material misery and religious fanaticism." Even without religious fanaticism, Büchner and Weidig use these two levers in the Hessian Land to win "the great class" for their goals material misery, especially in contrast to "the nobility", and at the same time provide a religious justification for the insurrection.

The Hessian Landbote is considered to be one of the most important works of Vormärz. (The era of the Vormärz was characterized in political terms by the advent of liberalism and nationalism in a climate of persecution and oppression. Please do your own research on that.)
So, what’s important with the Hessian Landbote is, is that with the flyer the “peasants” criticized the “princes” and tried to bring an understanding about the situation to the ordinary people and thus change something.

┌──── ★⋅☆⋅★ ────┐

But why is this slogan
in the Dope MV?
└──── ★⋅☆⋅★ ────┘




Here we have again to look at the lyrics. I will quote the previos mentioned blog again.

"Comments of "Naver" users regarding this matter go something along the lines of:

[...]

"There are always people who blame lack of effort on the part of individuals despite the fact that there are serious problems in society. Of course, if an individual works hard, then no matter if they are a 'Sampo', 'Ohpo' or 'Chilpo', they can live well. However the fact that the majority of young people have such a hard time reveals that it’s due to bigger institutional issues. If the young who are supposed to support our society fail, there is no future for us."

"Korean youth are feeling the pinch of a world that is run by the 1%. Good paying jobs are scarce because most of the money is going to the top tier, the ownership class. They might have a few years left before they descend completely into hell."

"At any rate this is only a nice country to live in if you are a congressperson or a celebrity."

"I have no idea who made up 'Hell Joseon' but it is spot on. Truly there couldn’t be a better way to sum up the current situation in South Korea than those three syllables."

[...]

The theme of despair seems to haunt the minds of South Korea’s younger population. With a multitude of social issues like high youth unemployment, extreme poverty, and an alarmingly low birth rate, the young and miserable frequently describe their country as hellish and therefore made "Hell Joseon" a trend word or rather a newly coined term referring to how tough life is in South Korea. Eight out of 10 Koreans wish to leave "Hell Joseon", in other words according to recruitment portal Saramin's survey of 1,655 adults, 78.6% said they would emigrate if they could. The dominant reason for wanting to leave the country was because they needed a work life balance and an opportunity to settle down. In addition, 47.9% percent of those who said they wished to emigrate were already preparing for their departure.
The use of "Joseon" is a reference to the past dynasty that ruled South Korea for five centuries until the late 1800s, thus implying that the Koreans have created a society like the one that existed 150 years ago, where the children born to the powerful families in Joseon-era grew up with a sliver spoon in their mouth. South Korea is a so-called "in infernal feudal kingdom stuck in the nineteenth century." “

This describes the situation, Hessen had to face in 1834, almost perfectly. In the Hessian Landbote, the situation was compared to the bible, in Korea to the 1800s. Maybe Korea should also change some things they are clearly doing wrong. BTS saying “Friede den Hütten! Krieg den Palästen!”, or “Peace for the huts! War for the palaces!” is taking credit to the quote mentioned above.


════ ☆★☆ ════

That is, why BTS has in the background of Dope the german slogan “Keine Profite mit der Miete” and “Friede den Hütten! Krieg den Palästen!”, because they not only address the n-generations and the sacrifices they have to make with the lyrics, but also address the situations with cost of living and how it is nearly impossible to afford an apartment in Seol. Also they blame the ones in charge for the situation, being it the politicians or the investors, I don’t know. But BTS takes a stand here that probably hasn’t been discovered in detail yet. Yes, Koreans understand the lyrics, but do they know enough about German history to connect these slogans? Do they even care?




════ ☆★☆ ════

Small funfact: The Dope MV was released on 23th June in 2015. Exactly two years after the week of activities in Germany. Maybe a coincidence, maybe not.

Sources:
Keine Profite mit der Miete
Friede den Hütten! Krieg den Palästen!


════ ☆★☆ ════

Thank you, to you, who has read all of it. I hope that my english wasn’t that bad and I was able to explain the similarities between Dope and the slogans understandable. Please ask anything, if you have still questions about it.



*all pics and gifs are from google. No copyright violation intended*

┌────────────────────
My other blogs:

Love Yourself - Highlight Reel:
Analysis and Theories

Adorable! Jimins cute little hands
Jungkook as a bias? - The struggles of a 25-year-old
My coming out! The way to choose a bias

────────────────────┘

Omg I just found out about the feature. Thank you so much whoever nominated the blog! It is my first feature that I didn't nominate myself.
I am currently on vacation which is why I can't answer your comments right away. I'll read a few in a few hours and maybe answer some. I'll definitly read all tomorrow! Thank you so much!



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200 Comments
Isabella Gentile
June 2013, the month BTS debuted...
05/30/19 0
sleepygpwder |
im probably gonna get called an asshole for this but why does this sound so much like

yknow

politics
07/31/18 0
♡ ♡ Seokjin and Taehyung month
I usually scroll past theories but this was reposted so I read it and I am glad that I did. Dope is one of my absolute favourites and I realised long ago that the deeper meaning of the lyrics were well worth to ponder on. However, the quotes on the wall escaped me. Without your help they would still be just scribblings. I'm amazed, you put your heart into something so deeply important; our boys interest in the state of the world, from young people's perspective. The historic links.
I've read and learned a lot about life in South Korea the past year and it's interesting to follow the struggle. I hope they won't have to leave, I hope young people can make a change and keep loving their country instead of speaking of hell.
BTS aren't like any other band, very far from what most people see; a bunch of dancing Asians with makeup and candy coloured hair.
I'm so glad you did this blog and so proud of being Army.
11/20/17 2
GirlInLuv
Ich hab diese Slogans vorher nie bemerkt... Ich fühl mich so unglaublich dumm

Aber der Blog war echt nice!
Genauso wie alle anderen Blogs von dir die ich bis jetzt gelesen hab
09/28/17 3
SUNNY
Wieso habe ich nie diese Slogans mitbekommen?!
09/21/17 0
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♂ :: happy birthday taehyung <3
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Asahiisback

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Joined
Dec 23, 2021
Messages
215
"Dope" translation

I worked all night, every day
While you were playing in the club
Don't be surprised and listen every day
I got a feel, I got a feel
I'm kinda sick!

Sick sick sick, the smell of sweat in our studio
Look,
My ringing dance moves answer
All of you are so weak, such losers, crybabies and idiots
Has nothing to do with me
Cuz I'm sick with hope, haha

OK, we're sick
From our head to our toes
We're sick with work for half our days
We live sickly in our studios, our youths may rot away
But thanks to that, we're running to success
Girls, scream louder, let it ring

I worked all night, every day
While you were playing in the club
Differently from other guys
I don't wanna say yes
I don't wanna say yes

Make some noise, all right
Till your body burns up, all night (all night)
Cause we got fire (fire!)
Higher (higher!)
I gotta make it, gotta gotta make it
It's sick!

Reject rejection
I was always too much
Everyone follow me
It's sick

Reject rejection
You are all my slaves
Everyone follow me
It's sick

Sampo generation? ohpo generation?
Well I like beef jerky so it's yookpo generation
The media and adults say we don't have willpower
Condemning us like stocks
Why are they killing us before we can even try, enemy enemy enemy
Why are you hanging your head and accepting it already? energy energy energy
Don't ever give up, you know you not lonely
Our dawn is prettier than the day
So can I get a little bit of hope? (yeah)
Wake your sleeping youth, go

I worked all night, every day
While you were playing in the club
Differently from other guys
I don't wanna say yes
I don't wanna say yes

Make some noise, all right
Till your body burns up, all night (all night)
Cause we got fire (fire!)
Higher (higher!)
I gotta make it, gotta gotta make it
It's sick!

Reject rejection
I was always too much
Everyone follow me
It's sick
 

Riko

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Joined
Jul 29, 2021
Messages
510
You explained t*e perfectly. I saw old footage of him recently and man has he changed and not for the better. And the most big headed people are also the most insecure. I think t@e is especially insecure around jk because he sees him as his biggest competition.

You're right about jhpe as well. He is professional and also very neat and organized and you can tell it's not just for the cameras. He always has the most caring bday posts for all the members. He probably prepares beforehand because his pics are usually never before seen and throughout the yrs.
I think the insecurity comes from Tae knowing that people are obsessed with him just because of his looks but JK is the one who is seen as this all rounder who carries the band and had a massive glow up and was looking fine af for a year or so before he lost it lol. Jk could very well be an absolute dick but there's something to say about the amount of patience and self awareness he has to not act up in front of the camera or to their fans like Tae has done. Plus the way that boy was begging someone to cook for him in the forest during their show, beyond ick as a grown ass man lol. Dunno how the Chaebol puts up with him, she must mother the shit out of him lol.

Yeah I like hobi, he'll go far once they disband.
 

Kimiko

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Aug 4, 2021
Messages
955
I totally agree. And omg that scene where he forced jk to cook for him was pathetic! I saw clips of that episode and jk had already cooked and cleaned for himself and then t*e wakes up late getting all weird and clingy begging jk to make him some food. The patience jk must have to never lose his sh!t on camera after all these yrs and not bop one of them upside the head. He looked annoyed but still made t*e breakfast and then walked away with his can of beer lol. And someone tell t@e this baby thing he does is creepy especially when he's now in his late 20s. You know it's ridiculous when the maknae looks more mature than you.
I love how this armie titles the clip cooking together when t@e just boiled water.
Then vee turned around the next day and cooked jm breakfast
 
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