*NEW findings* Critical re-evaluation of the Turin Shroud - evidence for 1st Century Dating

[illegalbeagle]

You lost me at "listen to a jew"

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

You lost me at "listen to a jew"

As a Jew, Barry Schwartz had no dog in the game when he was photographing the proposed “evidence” presented by the Shroud. He certainly didn’t believe in the Resurrection.

What do you make of these numbers:

*NEW findings* Critical re-evaluation of the Turin Shroud - evidence for 1st Century Dating

When a man raised as an Orthodox Jew, who was the photographic expert photographing the Shroud (and who thought it was just painted on to begin with) tells you it is authentic, it’s time to listen…

vigilantcitizenforums.com

 

[phipps]

Whether the Shroud of Turin is real or not (I don't believe its the actual grave cloth of Jesus because the Bible says His head was wrapped up separately but yet the Shroud of Turin has got the whole body wrap, front and back), its just a relic. Relics are just material things and play no part in our salvation at all.

The image of Himself that Christ wants left behind on earth is not on a cloth, but in the lives of millions who reflect Him in words, actions, and thoughts.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Whether the Shroud of Turin is real or not (I don't believe its the actual grave cloth of Jesus because the Bible says His head was wrapped up separately but yet the Shroud of Turin has got the whole body wrap, front and back), its just a relic. Relics are just material things and play no part in our salvation at all.

The image of Himself that Christ wants left behind on earth is not on a cloth, but in the lives of millions who reflect Him in words, actions, and thoughts.

I don’t think it’s an either/ or thing.

I don’t believe anyone is claiming salvific value to the Shroud of Turin.

My interest in simply that the forensic evidence points to a first century origin of a man (crucified in a non-standard way) with AB blood that represents 3% of the general population but the majority of Jewish blood groups, with local pollen on it, and with a facecloth that forensically correlated to the wounds on the shroud stored in a church in Oviedo, Spain from 7th Century onwards.

 

[illegalbeagle]

As a Jew, Barry Schwartz had no dog in the game when he was photographing the proposed “evidence” presented by the Shroud. He certainly didn’t believe in the Resurrection.

What do you make of these numbers:

*NEW findings* Critical re-evaluation of the Turin Shroud - evidence for 1st Century Dating

When a man raised as an Orthodox Jew, who was the photographic expert photographing the Shroud (and who thought it was just painted on to begin with) tells you it is authentic, it’s time to listen…

vigilantcitizenforums.com

I don't trust jews. Sorry it's built in.

I'm not actually sorry.

Call it what you want, but when a jew opens his mouth, I stop listening.

Go read the sanhedrins of the talmud, then you'll understand.

 

[illegalbeagle]

Whether the Shroud of Turin is real or not (I don't believe its the actual grave cloth of Jesus because the Bible says His head was wrapped up separately but yet the Shroud of Turin has got the whole body wrap, front and back), its just a relic. Relics are just material things and play no part in our salvation at all.

The image of Himself that Christ wants left behind on earth is not on a cloth, but in the lives of millions who reflect Him in words, actions, and thoughts.

Phipps knows.

 

[phipps]

@Red Sky at Morning

I don’t believe anyone is claiming salvific value to the Shroud of Turin.

The Catholics bow down and kneel before it. As you know Roman Catholics have a long history of the veneration of relics. They burn candles to them, they pray to them and they honour them which is idolatry.



Biblically relics are not important at all. They are not sacred and should not become objects of our affection and devotion. I know some people want something physical that can connect them to Christ but that is not what we need to connect with Him according to His Word.

My interest in simply that the forensic evidence points to a first century origin of a man (crucified in a non-standard way) with AB blood that represents 3% of the general population but the majority of Jewish blood groups, with local pollen on it, and with a facecloth that forensically correlated to the wounds on the shroud stored in a church in Oviedo, Spain from 7th Century onwards.

Yes AB blood is rare but how do you know Jesus had AB blood? Maybe Jews have a higher percentage of of people with AB blood but still most of them don't.

I don't believe that God would allow the preservation of the actual shroud which contained Christ's body. The God who hid the grave site of Moses does not want us to focus on material objects but on Jesus Christ our Saviour.

 

[illegalbeagle]

@Red Sky at Morning


The Catholics bow down and kneel before it. As you know Roman Catholics have a long history of the veneration of relics. They burn candles to them, they pray to them and they honour them which is idolatry.

View attachment 112702

Biblically relics are not important at all. They are not sacred and should not become objects of our affection and devotion. I know some people want something physical that can connect them to Christ but that is not what we need to connect with Him according to His Word.


Yes AB blood is rare but how do you know Jesus had AB blood? Maybe Jews have a higher percentage of of people with AB blood but still most of them don't.

I don't believe that God would allow the preservation of the actual shroud which contained Christ's body. The God who hid the grave site of Moses does not want us to focus on material objects but on Jesus Christ our Saviour.

I know what Jesus's blood was!

Blood and water, show me any MAN who can bleed like the LORD GOD JESUS CHRIST!?

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

I know what Jesus's blood was!

Blood and water, show me any MAN who can bleed like the LORD GOD JESUS CHRIST!?

I don’t think you understand what I have posted

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

@Red Sky at Morning


The Catholics bow down and kneel before it. As you know Roman Catholics have a long history of the veneration of relics. They burn candles to them, they pray to them and they honour them which is idolatry.

View attachment 112702

Biblically relics are not important at all. They are not sacred and should not become objects of our affection and devotion. I know some people want something physical that can connect them to Christ but that is not what we need to connect with Him according to His Word.


Yes AB blood is rare but how do you know Jesus had AB blood? Maybe Jews have a higher percentage of of people with AB blood but still most of them don't.

I don't believe that God would allow the preservation of the actual shroud which contained Christ's body. The God who hid the grave site of Moses does not want us to focus on material objects but on Jesus Christ our Saviour.

Jews ended u worshipping the Bronze Serpent but that in no way negated the fact that it was forged by Moses. The fact that Catholics had a proclivity to worship all physical evidences of Jesus (real and manufactured) in itself doesn’t negate the possibility that some physical evidences may have survived.

I don’t know that Jesus had AB blood, but the crucified man on the shroud and the facecloth did. That blood type is highly represented in the Jewish population but 3% in the wider world.

I think the only conclusion that can be drawn clearly is that the shroud bears an image of a man crucified in a manner analogous to the Biblical account, in first century Judea.

What you make of it is up to you though.

 

[phipps]

@Red Sky at Morning

Jews ended u worshipping the Bronze Serpent but that in no way negated the fact that it was forged by Moses. The fact that Catholics had a proclivity to worship all physical evidences of Jesus (real and manufactured) in itself doesn’t negate the possibility that some physical evidences may have survived.

The Jews did not worship the bronze serpent at first in the wilderness. God told them to look at it to heal the bites from the fiery snakes (Numbers 21:8-9). The bronze serpent represented Christ on the cross and we know this because Jesus said so Himself, "And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life" (John 3:14-15). If they had worshipped it at that time, that would be idolatry.

Later on during Hezekiah's rule, they burned incense to it, so Hezekiah destroyed it (2 Kings 18:3-4). God never told the Israelites in the days of Moses to worship the image. He told them simply to look at it.

I don’t know that Jesus had AB blood, but the crucified man on the shroud and the facecloth did. That blood type is highly represented in the Jewish population but 3% in the wider world.

It is still not important in the grand scheme of things.

I think the only conclusion that can be drawn clearly is that the shroud bears an image of a man crucified in a manner analogous to the Biblical account, in first century Judea.

It has made a lot of money for the Catholic Church for centuries. A mere piece of cloth.

What you make of it is up to you though.

The Shroud of Turin is a just a piece of cloth. That's it! Let us focus on Christ not relics that are just material things.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

@Red Sky at Morning


The Jews did not worship the bronze serpent at first in the wilderness. God told them to look at it to heal the bites from the fiery snakes (Numbers 21:8-9). The bronze serpent represented Christ on the cross and we know this because Jesus said so Himself, "And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life" (John 3:14-15). If they had worshipped it at that time, that would be idolatry.

Later on during Hezekiah's rule, they burned incense to it, so Hezekiah destroyed it (2 Kings 18:3-4). God never told the Israelites in the days of Moses to worship the image. He told them simply to look at it.


It is still not important in grand scheme of things.


It has made a lot of money for the Catholic Church for centuries. A mere piece of cloth.


The Shroud of Turin is a just a piece of cloth. That's it! Let us focus on Christ not relics that are just material things.

The point is that there are many “Christ myth” proponents (some on this forum) who deny the historic Jesus. You and I know they are wrong, but I am always open to evidence to rebut nonsense.

I agree that a Christian’s focus should be on Jesus, but I’m unsure as to how some physical evidences may of resurrection takes away from that.

 

[phipps]

I agree that a Christian’s focus should be on Jesus, but I’m unsure as to how some physical evidences may of resurrection takes away from that.

God knows that people get distracted by things and that gets in the way of us focussing on what's important, which is Jesus. Its the reason He hid Moses' grave. He knew the Israelites would worship his tomb or bones. Its also the reason why we don't have the exact dates of Jesus' birth and death and even then pagan days were brought in to celebrate them.

A perfect example is the Catholics. They have so many idols, relics, saints, and they exalt Mary and the pope which all take people's minds away from God.

Many Protestants also believe that the Shroud of Turin is Jesus' burial cloth and make pilgrimages to go see it just like the Catholics. The veneration of things associated with the body of Jesus and the saints is a sin.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

God knows that people get distracted by things and that gets in the way of us focussing on what's important, which is Jesus. Its the reason He hid Moses' grave. He knew the Israelites would worship his tomb or bones. Its also the reason why we don't have the exact dates of Jesus' birth and death and even then pagan days were brought in to celebrate them.

A perfect example is the Catholics. They have so many idols, relics, saints, and they exalt Mary and the pope which all take people's minds away from God.

Many Protestants also believe that the Shroud of Turin is Jesus' burial cloth and make pilgrimages to go see it just like the Catholics. The veneration of things associated with the body of Jesus and the saints is a sin.

Stop the Roman Catholic Indoctrination of our Seventh-day Adventist Youth in Europe | Advent Messenger

adventmessenger.org

Does the above Adventist position align it’s your own perspective @phipps ?

 

[Stucky]

Whether the Shroud of Turin is real or not (I don't believe its the actual grave cloth of Jesus because the Bible says His head was wrapped up separately but yet the Shroud of Turin has got the whole body wrap, front and back)

The shroud also shows a bearded man and we know from Isaiah that Jesus had his beard plucked out.

"I offered my back to those who beat me,

my cheeks to those who pulled out my beard;

I did not hide my face

from mocking and spitting."

Isaiah 50:6

 

[M G]

Stop the Roman Catholic Indoctrination of our Seventh-day Adventist Youth in Europe | Advent Messenger

adventmessenger.org

Does the above Adventist position align it’s your own perspective @phipps ?

I believe the Catholic Church evidence. Because, secular news (maZ0nic) will never tell the miraculous Christian truths! They have an assignment- to hide God from us. That is their job. Any retired people care to listen? I have to go to work 12 hours. lol. This is a two part series. Three reputable labs (USA/Europe) tested and revealed the scientific evidence, first showed up in France, as burial cloth, it then took various trips, went through a serious of ownerships, House of Savoy. Father Spitzer has gone through all historic research until the (recents) 1978 and (1988- carbon dating sample was deceitful, investigations sample was discredited as a repaired thread that had suffered corrosion, repairs done by nuns). Until 2004, all four other dating tests were done, it was created around 50 AD. with mountains of materials/electron microscopic physicist (and thermochemical chemists) studies and fibrals identified proof subjected to several different test, at the end of spectromitry. The cloth is linen, (not cotton), twill and weave during the time of Jesus, folded by our ancestors with face and body showing, iconographic evidence, making sure burial cloth was adequately preserved, with wounds showing.

 

[phipps]

Stop the Roman Catholic Indoctrination of our Seventh-day Adventist Youth in Europe | Advent Messenger

adventmessenger.org

Does the above Adventist position align it’s your own perspective @phipps ?

Lol this satanic tactic again when you know you're wrong. Can you at least change it up?

First of all, what I'm telling you is true according to God's Word not Adventists or any other Christian denomination. So bringing up Adventism is not going to change God's truth is it hmm?

Secondly, you know I am not part of the Adventist Church, I go to an independent church. Having said that most adventist people will agree with me because this is according to biblical doctrine. I'm not sure about the people who run the church though. There a lot of problems on that front as the Advent Messenger pointed out and keeps pointing out. They too are independent.

Nice try, but trying to deviate from God's truth failed again!

Lets focus on God's truth.

 

[phipps]

The shroud also shows a bearded man and we know from Isaiah that Jesus had his beard plucked out.

"I offered my back to those who beat me,

my cheeks to those who pulled out my beard;

I did not hide my face

from mocking and spitting."

Isaiah 50:6

Good point. His beard was pulled out so would not be full like on the Shroud of Turin. Even though His beard was not pulled out, His face had a separate covering so its impossible the Shroud would be imprinted with His body and face. Thanks.

 

[illegalbeagle]

I don’t think you understand what I have posted

I do, maybe you don't understand me?

I don't need to have scientific proof, but I read what happened when Jesus was speared.

I've never cut myself and water was mixed in my blood. No man has, only The King.

Also, who the the fuck right, would know if his blood was A/B or whatever?

Did NASA do that science?

 

[illegalbeagle]

And at the end of the day, my messiah isn't an old cloth.

I don't care about it, it's moot.