Opinions Wanted – Thora Birch?

[Major Blood]

I'm curious what the VC experts make of this...

Thora Birch was a 90s actress best known for American Beauty. Compared to some current pop stars, she seems like a much more plausible victim of Monarch programming. Her parents were both adult film stars. She was also 16 when she filmed the famous topless scene in American Beauty (with her parents on the set). Her career nosedived in her mid-twenties and she's seldom heard from anymore...

There have been a couple blog posts about MK Ultra connections to her movies, but I don't think anyone has written about the overall dark-seeming aspects of Thora's life and career. Here is a basic timeline, which you are welcome to flesh out further:

• As a child actress, she starred in supernatural-themed movies like Purple People Eater and Hocus Pocus.
• With Christina Ricci, she starred in Now And Then, where she played a tween girl obsessed with glamorous clothes, smoking cigarettes, and having large breasts.
• In her heyday before 9-11, Thora took roles in Ghost World (playing a teenager who drifts away from her friends to spend time with bizarre older men) , Dungeons & Dragons, The Hole, and the aforementioned American Beauty.
• Thora then starred in Limp Bizkit's Eat You Alive video (where she was tied to a chair with an IV-drip in a graveyard, while Fred Durst sprayed her with a hose and yelled in her face through a megaphone).
• As her career declined, Thora starred in cheaper movies like Dark Corners (where her character dreamt of being a different person in an alternate reality subject to different forms of torture), and Winter Of Frozen Dreams (playing a science student who maintains a secret life as a prostitute and murderer).
• Her career is essentially dead now, despite having "close" relationships with Hollywood people like Nicole Kidman and Kevin Spacey.
  
• Thora's most MK Ultra-related appearance was probably at the BRIT Awards in 2000. She came on stage with Ronnie Wood of the Rolling Stones looking completely entranced, drugged (or both) and a man rushed the stage (a la Kanye West) to humiliate them.

Using this timeline as a starting point, I wonder if anyone can put together more connections between Thora's parents, her early movies, the peak of her career as an actress (when she also adopted a goth persona), her Hollywood relationships, and the way that her professional life fell apart after 9-11?

As I said, there is probably much more to go on than with pop stars who are still in the headlines like Beyonce or Jay Z. Curious to see what the inquisitive minds at VC come up with...

 

[AMK]

She definitely had a weird life that's for sure. I read one time about her father being on the set of a movie she was doing as an adult and him being really obnoxious and rude to everyone. She was filming some kind of sex scene and he wanted to direct it, which I just find gross. I know her mother was one of the "actress's " in Deep Throat.

Not sure about MKUltra connections, the only movie of hers I saw was American Beauty.

 

[Aero]

I checked her on Twitter. She seems fine. I think some of us get a little too into the nefarious side of Hollywood. And to that I would say don't let your imagination cloud what's real. The common theme with all these suspected MK cases is, their parents are weird. Or something is up with them in general.

I've talked about this a lot too. Nobody is actually getting tortured. Not physically anyway. It's all psychological and it spreads easily from parent to child. Or child to parent I guess. That's why I always say our parents all got brainwashed. That's why every single MK case is the way they are. Like nobody picked us out for the weird "program". Our parents were already on their stupid list.

 

[Major Blood]

I read one time about her father being on the set of a movie she was doing as an adult and him being really obnoxious and rude to everyone... I know her mother was one of the "actress's " in Deep Throat.
Not sure about MKUltra connections, the only movie of hers I saw was American Beauty.

Honestly, I think every movie she's been in has some overt MK Ultra significance:

Hocus Pocus (1993)

Now And Then (1995)

American Beauty (1999)

Dungeons & Dragons (2000)

The Hole (2001)

Ghost World (2001)

Eat You Alive (2003)

Dark Corners (2006)

Winter of Frozen Dreams (2009)

I'd encourage you to check out any of these films, almost at random, and see if the Monarch themes aren't insanely obvious. It's hard to say one movie is even more overt than the rest - they're all so consistently about disconnection and the supernatural.

This doesn't seem coincidental, especially for an actress who literally grew up on the "dark" side of Hollywood, enjoyed a brief period of rewards between ages 16-21, then unceremoniously disappeared.

 

[rainerann]

I used to love Now and Then when I was younger. It was actually one of my favorite movies at one time. I always wondered what happened to Thora Birch. She was one of the best characters in the movie.

Most of the articles that I find say that her dad had something to do with it. This article actually details an incident where the dad was imposing his ideas on the director while Thora Birch was filming a sex scene. From the perspective of the article, everyone thought her dad's involvement in that scene was weird and many people are aware that this happened. http://www.wetpaint.com/what-happened-thora-birch-creepy-598751/

Although, in an interview with the Guardian, Thora Birch never mentions this incident. Doesn't mention anything about the influence her dad's management had on her career. Says that not getting a lot of attention was because she didn't like to be put in the mold the industry was putting her in. That she didn't like frills and all that, and that her lack of attention was the result of sexist views towards women.

To me, this is weird. When I read the article about the dad, I knew there had to be something wrong. Even if it were just normal dysfunction, and it is weird. She completely protects her father demonstrating that she clearly has a deep sense of loyalty. Most of the articles basically say that her father destroyed her career, but she has not chosen to fire him, distance herself from him, or admit that he has contributed to the present state of her career.

Most every article gives a positive perspective on her. Everyone has great things to say about her. It is her father they don't like and she seems to demonstrate a high level of loyalty regardless.

The Guardian also has some interesting things to say about her behavior during the interview when asked about her career.

"Talking with Birch is a little like trying to stand one's ground during a minor earth tremor: just when I think I've found my footing, her rhythm changes as she switches between bolshy self-confidence and nervy insecurity. Her tone can alter from thoughtful to defensive aggression to sarcastic sing-song in the space of a few minutes. But the overall effect is of a person who has been somewhat battered by setbacks and feels the need more than ever to prove herself. " https://www.theguardian.com/film/2014/jan/23/thora-birch-hollywood-darling-disappeared

So there is definitely evidence of abuse. Finding the source, or purpose, of the abuse is a different story.

Since she was also the star of American Beauty, I thought it would be good to share a documentary I had watched a while back on "Lolita" since that movie demonstrates many of themes from that book. Here is the first part. There are like five parts, but I won't post them here, but it is a very interesting presentation of sexualizing young girls in media going back to the beginning of the film industry.

 

[rainerann]

In the article from the Guardian, she also says something that I thought was weird. She says that it didn't surprise her that Brittany Murphy died.

"I'd seen Brittany here and there before and thought she was cute and lovely and all that stuff. But when I worked with her I saw the condition" – she twirls her finger next to her head – "and I thought, that can't be good." https://www.theguardian.com/film/2014/jan/23/thora-birch-hollywood-darling-disappeared

Bustle magazine says that Murphy's death was sudden and unexpected as most of the news media was I thought. The article says that Murphy had anemia and subsequent pneumonia and trace amounts of over the counter medications and a small amount of Vicodin. https://www.bustle.com/articles/38528-how-did-brittany-murphy-die-heres-what-we-actually-know-so-listen-up-lifetime

Murphy is already suspicious to most of us because of this.

So why wasn't this surprising to Birch, but it was to everyone else in the entertainment industry who mentions it?

 

[Major Blood]

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2014/jan/23/thora-birch-hollywood-darling-disappeared

So there is definitely evidence of abuse. Finding the source, or purpose, of the abuse is a different story.

To match some of the interviews and links you found about her childhood, I'll leave this here:

• (0:43) On why her parents named her Thora [*spoiler* she was meant to be a boy]:

"It's from Norse mythology, and my parents thought I was going to be a boy. And they were going to name me Thor, who was the god of thunder and lightning.
"Oops, and so, uh, somebody said well tack an 'a' on the end of her name and call her Thora".

• (3:48) On her two weeks alone with a 'trainer' and a monkey:

"I had two weeks of preparation just where it was me, and the trainer, and the monkey. Really, kind of developing a rapport.
"At first I was kind of nervous, but uh, we developed a rapport with each monkey... and each monkey and me had a different relationship. So you know.
"I guess the trainer said that one had a crush on me. It was a guy monkey. A guy monkey. Guy monkey".

 

[Dan]

I'm curious what the VC experts make of this...

Thora Birch was a 90s actress best known for American Beauty. Compared to some current pop stars, she seems like a much more plausible victim of Monarch programming. Her parents were both adult film stars. She was also 16 when she filmed the famous topless scene in American Beauty (with her parents on the set). Her career nosedived in her mid-twenties and she's seldom heard from anymore...

There have been a couple blog posts about MK Ultra connections to her movies, but I don't think anyone has written about the overall dark-seeming aspects of Thora's life and career. Here is a basic timeline, which you are welcome to flesh out further:

• As a child actress, she starred in supernatural-themed movies like Purple People Eater and Hocus Pocus.
• With Christina Ricci, she starred in Now And Then, where she played a tween girl obsessed with glamorous clothes, smoking cigarettes, and having large breasts.
• In her heyday before 9-11, Thora took roles in Ghost World (playing a teenager who drifts away from her friends to spend time with bizarre older men) , Dungeons & Dragons, The Hole, and the aforementioned American Beauty.
• Thora then starred in Limp Bizkit's Eat You Alive video (where she was tied to a chair with an IV-drip in a graveyard, while Fred Durst sprayed her with a hose and yelled in her face through a megaphone).
• As her career declined, Thora starred in cheaper movies like Dark Corners (where her character dreamt of being a different person in an alternate reality subject to different forms of torture), and Winter Of Frozen Dreams (playing a science student who maintains a secret life as a prostitute and murderer).
• Her career is essentially dead now, despite having "close" relationships with Hollywood people like Nicole Kidman and Kevin Spacey.
  
• Thora's most MK Ultra-related appearance was probably at the BRIT Awards in 2000. She came on stage with Ronnie Wood of the Rolling Stones looking completely entranced, drugged (or both) and a man rushed the stage (a la Kanye West) to humiliate them.

Using this timeline as a starting point, I wonder if anyone can put together more connections between Thora's parents, her early movies, the peak of her career as an actress (when she also adopted a goth persona), her Hollywood relationships, and the way that her professional life fell apart after 9-11?

As I said, there is probably much more to go on than with pop stars who are still in the headlines like Beyonce or Jay Z. Curious to see what the inquisitive minds at VC come up with...

I sympathize not at all with these people. They'd screw anything for a buck. Soulless sluts. I don't know about Argento and his mob, including his daughter. Wouldn't be surprised as she did a movie about selling her underage son out to pimps.

 

[Major Blood]

Apropos quote from Tony Curtis on Marilyn Monroe:

• "Her personal madnesses were so destructive... consequently it cost her her life".
• "She had a lot of powers... but it was difficult for her to put them together".
• "She was a mean 7 year-old girl".

 

[Dan]

Apropos quote from Tony Curtis on Marilyn Monroe:

• "Her personal madnesses were so destructive... consequently it cost her her life".
• "She had a lot of powers... but it was difficult for her to put them together".
• "She was a mean 7 year-old girl".

So, mentally, they took their turn screwing a drug-addled child. Bastards.

 

[Major Blood]

So, mentally, they took their turn screwing a drug-addled child. Bastards.

I sense you know a thing or two about Kevin Spacey, my friend.

This is definitely a leading question... but please check out these photos, taken when American Beauty was released, and see if you notice a theme:

Last photo with director Sam Mendes, looking a little... star-struck?
(Thora was 17 then. Kevin Spacey played her Dad in the movie, BTW.)

 

[Dan]

I sense you know a thing or two about Kevin Spacey, my friend.

This is definitely a leading question... but please check out these photos, taken when American Beauty was released, and see if you notice a theme:

Last photo with director Sam Mendes, looking a little... star-struck?
(Thora was 17 then. Kevin Spacey played her Dad in the movie, BTW.)

You know, who cares? All they are about is MONEY. Fuckem.

 

[Dan]

Listening to this right now. May all the slime burn in hell.

 

[Vixy]

Aight, this is what I found:

Spirit reference and kitten ears

Zebra print

One eye

Masonic floor

Carefully watched by the eye there..

aaand of course leopard print. *Surprise*

You know, it's like John Todd said: -You don't get to put out a record if you're not an initiated witch.

I think it's been the same with movies and the whole insudtry since decades back. You just don't get in if you're not one of them.

 

[Major Blood]

Aight, this is what I found:

One eye

Carefully watched by the eye there..

These are the two creepiest...

Notice how the first photo looks like she's still a child actor? It's from American Beauty, by which time she's actually a teenager, and appears topless earlier in the film. How and why, then, did she look so young in that later scene?

The lower photo is disturbing all on its own, and requires no explanation.

As to Kevin Spacey - Thora's onscreen father in the film - I'll leave this for anyone else to look into: https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/5tab9w/lolita_express_logs_bill_clinton_kevin_spacey/

 

[Vixy]

Oh yeah, I bet she's an initiated witch like the rest.

You must see this:

I think that's the one where he talks about how one must be an initiated witch to get a record contract and about the room where they cast a spell on the albums before releasing them.

 

[Major Blood]

Oh yeah, I bet she's an initiated witch like the rest.
You must see this:

I think that's the one where he talks about how one must be an initiated witch to get a record contract and about the room where they cast a spell on the albums before releasing them.

Speaking of Johnny Todd and the "Coven", check this out:

When they orchestrated her rise to A-list status, one of the first "publications" to feature her was "Black Book". Really, Black. Book. At the time, American Beauty was supposed to catapult her to legitimate Hollywood stardom. Yet look how occult the presentation was:

Creepy masks (clown masks), houses hidden by trees, antique, satanic-looking clothes... It's like they're saying "Here is the world's next big star. And yes, we realize she just emerged from a masked ritual in a crack house".

Meanwhile, a Hollywood makeup artist has the following to say about Thora's actual reputation a few years later:

"Her parents are in the porn industry and were trying to talk my friend into becoming Thora's friend because she didn't have any."
"To make a long story short: Thora ended up being extremely weird... not in the good way either."
"She was a brat, spoiled... talking about how the playboy girls were trash, how most girls in la are whores... then after all of this, my friend walked in on her (in the room they were hanging out in) blowing a guy who also worked at the [Playboy] mansion. the guy was SUPER old, like larry king old, too."
"I guess she's a lot like the characters she plays, but not in the entertaining way.
"To this day, her parents still bug my friend to hang out with her and spend time with her."​

On a weirder note...

In 2004, Brittany Murphy starred in a movie called "Little Black Book". Murphy was another starlet who disappeared after being allowed some "success" in the late 90s/early 2000s... Only in Murphy's case, she disappeared for real.

In 2009, after the plug was already pulled on Thora's own career, she co-starred with Murphy in a movie (appropriately) titled "Deadline".
As Rainerann mentions up-thread, Thora talked about her co-star's death like she always knew it would happen: http://www.kpopstarz.com/articles/75614/20140124/brittany-murphy-death-update-thora-birch-surprised-s-father-searches.htm

Golden dawn indeed.

 

[polymoog]

did a little bit of reading on ms. birch.

shes alive and well on twitter. judging from her pictures there, she seems happy with her life. i was expecting to see a bit of darkness, but she seems well adjusted living in CA with her cat. on her website, she has some normal photos of herself. nothing suspicious, IMO.

as far as her decline:
from what ive read, it was a combination of her overbearing father and competition that crushed her career. its been said that other actresses were better choices, namely, scarlett johannson and amber tamblyn. its subjective, but others have said that these other actresses were more attractive and simply won the best roles, pushing her into obscurity. perhaps they are better candidates for hollyweird... i dont know. if her father was on the set in hollyweird, thats already a big strike against her, as the pedo producers want the child alone. with his rages in which he is said to throw on the set is a recipe for persona non grata in the movie world. there is also discussion about birchs own attitude, being less than savory.

i cannot comment on her filmography having seen none of her films (save american beauty).

 

[Major Blood]

shes alive and well on twitter. judging from her pictures there, she seems happy with her life. i was expecting to see a bit of darkness, but she seems well adjusted living in CA with her cat. on her website, she has some normal photos of herself. nothing suspicious, IMO.

Just because a celebrity presents like everything is fine on Twitter, doesn't necessary mean it is. The example of Charlie Sheen "winning" comes to mind... then a year later, it turns out he has HIV.

We have only scratched the surface with this, and already the following stories come out:

Today's Blind Items - The Two Dads
"Today I'm introducing you to dads. Both of whom are the parents of actresses. Both of them are about as bad as it gets when it comes to fathers. One has pretty much escaped, but the other, well, she is not so lucky.
"The first dad has been in trouble with the law and has a daughter who was once a promising B list movie actress. At a young age he started grooming his daughter for stardom. He would always put her in front of the camera. He also gave her lots of special attention. Not the kind of attention a man should be giving his daughter. He would take her head shots and as she got older and entered her teens he also started taking more risque photos of her and that led to them having sex. He even got her pregnant once.
"He would not let her date and was reluctant to ever let her go to school. His hard work on his daughter's behalf paid off and she became successful. He could not handle the success though and the attention she started getting from guys. He made her live with him and continued to photograph her and also filmed them having sex. Her once promising career has now become a drug abused mess who will never truly get better until her father dies. He still sends her out for auditions but is there for everyone and has made himself and his daughter a pariah in the acting community.
April 25, 2012 10:10 AM - http://www.crazydaysandnights.net/2012/04/todays-blind-items-two-dads.html

This is way beyond the level of abuse that first seemed likely. Other people have mentioned the relationship with her father, but it is chilling if this kind of thing can carry on in Hollywood for years, without anyone trying to intervene.

 

[Aero]

It does seem to be a pattern though. How we keep seeing these celebrities who are well into adulthood, still blindly loyal to their parents. Jung would call that unhealthy, like stopping a person from maturing mentally. There is a difference between being loyal and being "attached". The child is meant to separate from their parents, as a way for the "self" to become whole.

If the Self isn't moving in a way that promotes reflection, than who are you? In my eyes you are essentially living the lives of other people, or living for them, and not for you. And that's how I see a lot of these celebrities. Not really living for themselves, not really independent of all these archaic systems of control.