Differences between the Bible and Islam

[phipps]

just be intellectually honest, you presented it like you had this slam dunk argument against us and your whole argument was shown to be rubbish

I didn't and I would thank you not to tell me why I posted what I did.

 

[Haich]

‘The premise is false to you, not me’ lol.

This guy posted ‘I don’t believe Gabriel revealed The Quran to Muhammad’. You’ve already lost whatever it is you were trying to communicate. You have to state a hypothesis or a claim which can be discussed and explored or challenged. Try a rhetorical question, ‘Did Gabriel reveal The Quran to Muhammad?’ You then present your evidence. You cannot use the Bible in this context to introduce the main point as the question or claim you have made is about The Quran. So back up your doubts with proof from the Quran. You use your Bible as a rebuttal after exploring how the Quran was revealed to Muhammad and why you find fault in it.

You’ve made a claim, presupposed that your own opinion is the basis of truth, then use the Bible to back up the idea that Muhammad pbuh didn’t receive any revelation from Gabriel. It’s a dishonest and frankly quite a dense way to explore the question of The Quran’s revelation. You need primary sources to explore this question, you can’t use the Bible alone!

 

[Haich]

this is something Christians and the vast sea of Western godless people of Christian roots do not understand... Islam is simply more intellectual than Christianity. I know what I just said is super mega un PC but it's the truth. a whole book could be written on it.

Christianity is a lot involved with subjective religious experiences.... "God put in my heart".... "wow thank Jesus, I was raised a Muslim in Kenya.... every morning myself and my family would cook and eat a local Christian while insulting Jesus and burning a US flag.... but then I saw Jesus in a dream"..... Islam is simply more intellectual.

Christianity is comparable to extreme sufi groups, where they lose focus on knowledge and become all about subjective religious experiences that they believe are divine inspired. and they even believe in random ordinary Christians being in touch with divine inspiration guiding the random thoughts that pop into their head.... even the extreme sufis would generally not go that far.

anyways, a whole book would have to be written to show just how more intellectual Islam is.... their whole mindset is very unintellectual compared to Islam... Islam is a thinking person's religion... Christianity frankly is this primitive religion where people believe in and get very attached to a greek mythology like story of God fathering a child with a human woman... audubillah

(of course it is true that Jesus was miraculously born of a virgin but... Jesus was not the son of God)

I don’t know if it’s something the church teaches but it’s like they can’t think outside their scripture when pressed with difficult questions. They either say oh we don’t know it’s complicated or that you need the Holy Spirit to understand this you are not a believer so you won’t get it. It sounds like an exclusive club yet they’re always preaching (not just here but in real life).

 

[90sWereBetter]

I don’t know if it’s something the church teaches but it’s like they can’t think outside their scripture when pressed with difficult questions. They either say oh we don’t know it’s complicated or that you need the Holy Spirit to understand this you are not a believer so you won’t get it. It sounds like an exclusive club yet they’re always preaching (not just here but in real life).

well let's say for example.... I interpret a verse from the Quran a certain way... you don't agree, you think I'm misinterpreting the verse... ok... so we go back, we check tafsir ibn kathir... we check tafsir at tabari... tafsir as-sadi....

but if it's two Christians... both have a different interpretation of a Bible verse... "God put it in my heart to understand that the verse means this"... "the holy spirit guided me to interpret it this way"... tafsir al "holy spirit"... the holy spirit will tell you how to understand the Bible..... it is madness, anarchy.... but this kind of thing is really how they think...

and like you said- they often can't explain something so... "holy spirit".... every single random Christian is some level 1000 Sufi master who is in close back-and-forth communication with the holy spirit, receiving constant individual divine revelation.... they really think like this

you (for example) say the shia are deviant innovators but within the fold of Islam... I (for example) simply mass takfir every shia from the scholars to the babies of shia parents.... (just for example- I don't actually takfir ALL shia)... you go get a fatwa from sheikh such-and-such, I go get a fatwa from another sheikh....

two Christians have a difference in opinion.... one instantly (allegedly) receives an unseen fatwa directly from the holy spirit.... the other says "well actually Jesus told me...".... I am not even exaggerating, this kind of thing really happens amongst them

 

[90sWereBetter]

making things even worse imo is the advent of protestantism. now every Christian gets to make up their own version of Christianity and then attribute it to direct revelation. at any given time, there are countless Christians even claiming prophethood, it is a very common thing.

 

[Haich]

well let's say for example.... I interpret a verse from the Quran a certain way... you don't agree, you think I'm misinterpreting the verse... ok... so we go back, we check tafsir ibn kathir... we check tafsir at tabari... tafsir as-sadi....

but if it's two Christians... both have a different interpretation of a Bible verse... "God put it in my heart to understand that the verse means this"... "the holy spirit guided me to interpret it this way"... tafsir al "holy spirit"... the holy spirit will tell you how to understand the Bible..... it is madness, anarchy.... but this kind of thing is really how they think...

and like you said- they often can't explain something so... "holy spirit".... every single random Christian is some level 1000 Sufi master who is in close back-and-forth communication with the holy spirit, receiving constant individual divine revelation.... they really think like this

you (for example) say the shia are deviant innovators but within the fold of Islam... I (for example) simply mass takfir every shia from the scholars to the babies of shia parents.... (just for example- I don't actually takfir ALL shia)... you go get a fatwa from sheikh such-and-such, I go get a fatwa from another sheikh....

two Christians have a difference in opinion.... one instantly (allegedly) receives an unseen fatwa directly from the holy spirit.... the other says "well actually Jesus told me...".... I am not even exaggerating, this kind of thing really happens amongst them

Yeah that’s the thing with contentious issues in Islam there’s a wealth of primary and secondary resources that can be explored. Most of the time as well, the basic fundamental principles Muslims are in agreement.

 

[90sWereBetter]

Yeah that’s the thing with contentious issues in Islam there’s a wealth of primary and secondary resources that can be explored. Most of the time as well, the basic fundamental principles Muslims are in agreement.

there is that if there is an issue in dispute.... and even if it comes to simply wanting to understand the text...

for Muslims, there's Ibn Kathir, at-tabari, as-sadi, etc.

for the Christians, who is their Ibn Kathir???? who are their big scholars they get fataawa from? every random person basically gets to just pick up the Bible and make up their own interpretation of the Bible and their own version of Christianity

 

[Maldarker]

You’ve already asked me about how I know it wasn’t Satan who spoke to Mohammed and I’ve already answered this question and took the time to put in references. You didn’t respond. Yet here you are making the same claim.

Jesus warned against what exactly? The verses I posted sound positive.

Its a different gospel (message then the one given by CHRIST) and was warned against any other revelations coming after HIM. Mohammed listened to a spirit in a cave for me that comes to another message given by a spirit be it claimed to be an angel or not. No other spirits are giving messages or revelations after CHRISTs ascent but you don't believe that so thats why i didn't answer you.

 

[Haich]

Its a different gospel (message then the one given by CHRIST) and was warned against any other revelations coming after HIM. Mohammed listened to a spirit in a cave for me that comes to another message given by a spirit be it claimed to be an angel or not. No other spirits are giving messages or revelations after CHRISTs ascent but you don't believe that so thats why i didn't answer you.

You didn’t answer me because you couldn’t contest what I said.

 

[Flarepath]

God the Father did not make Jesus His equal, Jesus was always His equal...

You gotta be kidding us mate..
Jesus said-
“Why do you call me good?..No one is good except God alone" (Luke 18:19)
"Only God knows when Judgment Day will be, I don't know myself" (Mark 13:32)
"I say nothing of my own accord, I only say what my father tells me to say.." (John 12:49)
"I am going to the Father, for my Father is greater than I" (John 14:28)

 

[Flarepath]

There's also a video posted which is either purposely deceptive or misinformed. Claims that Paul was not to go to the gentiles because Jesus ignored gentiles during His ministry..

Yeah, anybody can post nonsense on the net..
Fact is, although Jesus started by preaching to the jews first, he later said multiple times that he came to save the whole world-
"..I came not to judge the world, but to save the world" (John 12:47)
And Paul confirmed it- " For this is what the Lord has commanded us: 'I have made you a light for the gentiles, that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth.' (Acts 13:47)

 

[Flarepath]

...i am definitely not saying i have visions. I am speaking about a state of mind..

Yes, Christians have 'mindmelded' with Jesus and have got him inside their heads which is why they're cool, calm and goodnatured all the time..-


____________________________________________

 

[Flarepath]

(to somebody)-
You’ve made a claim, presupposed that your own opinion is the basis of truth, then use the Bible to back up the idea that Muhammad pbuh didn’t receive any revelation from Gabriel..

Correct me if i'm wrong, but as I understand it (according to the Koran), the 'angel Gabriel' gave 'revelations' to Mohammed alone in a cave, then Mohammed dictated it to people and they wrote it down and it became the Koran.

 

[Haich]

Correct me if i'm wrong, but as I understand it (according to the Koran), the 'angel Gabriel' gave 'revelations' to Mohammed alone in a cave, then Mohammed dictated it to people and they wrote it down, is that correct?

They didn’t write it down initially no, he would just recite and tell people what was revealed to him.

 

[Flarepath]

They didn’t write it down initially no, he would just recite and tell people what was revealed to him.

So who exactly wrote the first Koran, and when?

 

[Haich]

So who exactly wrote the first Koran, and when?

Here is a detailed breakdown of your question.

Who Wrote the Quran? - Islam Question & Answer

The Quran has remained and will remain narrated from generation to generation and preserved in people’s hearts until the Day of Resurrection. Please see the detailed answer for more about the preservation of the Quran.

islamqa.info

In short, literacy was scarce in Arabia so there was no need to write the Quran down. After some time, a companion of the prophet decided after a battle that they didn’t want to lose people who had memorised the entire Quran. That’s when it began to be written. The link explains it in more detail. Hope that helps.

 

[Maldarker]

You didn’t answer me because you couldn’t contest what I said.

no actually i went through this whole thing with another on another thread is probably why Told you want bible says about it you will pooh pooh it etc and it will be nothing but tit for tat...so i will take CHRISTS advice and not listen to such doctrine

 

[phipps]

One of the differences between the Bible the Quran and Hadiths is prophecy.

Biblically through the ages God has given important, lifesaving messages through His prophets. Prophets were/are ordinary people whom God chose/chooses to represent Him by receiving His divine messages and delivering them faithfully to His people.

Biblically prophets do not express their own private opinions in spiritual matters. Their thoughts come from God, through the Holy Spirit. The Bible tells us, "Prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit” (2 Peter 1:21).

In the Bible God communicated with prophets through dreams, visions or face to face, "If there is a prophet among you, I, the Lord, make Myself known to him in a vision; I speak to him in a dream. ... I speak with him face to face” (Numbers 12:6, 8).

In the Bible there are many prophecies (almost 2000) and they were/are given for different reasons such as to warn God's people of potential consequences if they didn't turn back to God and obey Him, to remind people what it meant to live godly lives, to help us understand future events and to prepare for them, to give hope.

I'm not well versed in the Quran or the Hadiths nor do I want or intend to be, but I know Islam says Mohammed received his revelations by Gabriel from god who appeared to him in a cave.

In the Bible the angel Gabriel had a calming influence on those he appeared to. He helped relieve their fears because he could see they were troubled when they saw him. The angel Gabriel told Zacharias, "Do not be afraid, Zacharias, for your prayer is heard; and your wife Elizabeth will bear you a son, and you shall call his name John" (Luke 1:13). Gabriel also told Mary, "Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God" (Luke 1:30).

However in Mohammed's case "Gabriel" squeezed him so tight he could not breathe. After encounters with this Gabriel, Mohammed would be left depressed and suicidal. Certainly that is not calm at all.

There also is not much prophecy in Islamic writings compared to the Bible and yet not all of it is fulfilled or comes true. In the Bible a prophet's predictions have to be fulfilled and come to pass, "But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in My name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet shall die.’ And if you say in your heart, ‘How shall we know the word which the Lord has not spoken?’— when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the thing does not happen or come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him" (Deuteronomy 18:20–22).

Islamic writings completely contradict the Bible on every theological point which means the god of Islam is not the same God of Christianity. One is the true God and one isn't.

 

[ToxicFemininitySucks]

Christianity frankly is this primitive religion where people believe in and get very attached to a greek mythology like story of God fathering a child with a human woman... audubillah

(of course it is true that Jesus was miraculously born of a virgin but... Jesus was not the son of God)

THIS is what started out this whole topic, in a different thread.

If God is not Jesus' father, then who?
Females can't give life alone. That is an incredibly female supremacist concept.
Calling it mythology that God would father a child with a human, but not mythology that a woman can have a fatherless child...

I used to think that just as how the Jews believe Jesus had a human father that this is what was meant by the Muslims when they say God has no son. While i disagree, i can accept that -- it WOULD make sense that someone who rejects God was His father would think his father was a human.

making things even worse imo is the advent of protestantism.

The reason im a protestant and not a catholic is because im not going to bow down before some WOMAN and worship her.

 

[ToxicFemininitySucks]

Was i just supposed to not have made the thread in the first place?

Ok, it's becoming clear that the answer is yeah, i shouldn't have made the thread.

When one side constantly attacks the Bible and people who believe the Bible, yet any questions i ask are considered an "attack", and "agenda", an "obsession", etc, it makes it clear that this is not a discussion that is able to be had.

I PERSONALLY did not attack anyone, nor did i post anything deliberately offensive. But despite my attempts to take care and avoid this my motives get questioned and my beliefs get attacked.

NO ONE is FORCING ANYONE to accept what the Bible says.

If a question is asked and the Bible says something, then i will say "the Bible says this"*. But then the accusation is "Christians can only repeat what their scriptures say"...

If something is NOT directly explained in the Bible, then i give my thoughts. But then the accusation is "that's just your opinion" or "other Christians don't agree with you"...

So. Can't go by what the Bible says... can't go by my own opinion...


*not that it matters, because even if i quote the Bible directly , such as in the matter of David and Bathsheba, a lie will continue to be repeated regardless


Anyway, despite this becoming a trainwreck i will continue the thread. I think discussing how the two views are different - beyond the topic of Jesus - is important, and is not discussed often. I, for one, have learned a lot.