Comparison of JAHtruth's "The way home or face the Fire" to the bible (part 2)

[JoChris]

From the oft-quoted passage from Matthew 5:
Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

Psalm 1
Blessed is the man
who walks not in the counsel of the wicked,
nor stands in the way of sinners,
nor sits in the seat of scoffers;
2 but his delight is in the law of the Lord,
and on his law he meditates day and night.

Following the law is not what Jesus is attributed to have rebuked the Pharisees (of which he was likely one himself) for, rather making up new laws, corruption and hypocrisy are the main things that he criticizes them of according to the text of the NT.

Thank you for that psalm!
That is a good one for all of us to consider ourselves against everyday life as well as our religious leaders/ and founder of our faith.

If Anthony John Hill is truly Jesus reborn (more commonly known as reincarnated), then he should personally fulfill that psalm perfectly, every minute of his life.
That means his past as well as his present and future.

 

[Infinityloop]

Jesus made the pharisees rage not by telling them their keeping of The Law was useless, but because He condemned them for their writing of the Talmud (their "traditions" of the elders) which was forbidden in The Law (Deut. 4:2) and following it instead of The Law which they did to make the Law/Commandments of God of none effect. He also told them that none of them were keeping The Law and asked them why they went about to kill him.

Therefore Jesus made them rage by telling them that they were guilty of breaking The Law with their tradition, and that they had therefore not kept The Law.

The Talmud(s) (there are two) wasn't written until around the 8th/9th century, the earliest manuscripts are from even later.

 

[Infinityloop]

Thank you for that psalm!
That is a good one for all of us to consider ourselves against everyday life as well as our religious leaders/ and founder of our faith.

If Anthony John Hill is truly Jesus reborn (more commonly known as reincarnated), then he should personally fulfill that psalm perfectly, every minute of his life.
That means his past as well as his present and future.

Quite the sentiment that the book of Psalms opens with that.

 

[Infinityloop]

I don't have any stake in the Jewish vs Christian game around those issues, I see problems and corrections from both sides.

That said, I do have a stake when it comes to Jahtruth in the manner that I rebuke and curse their cult and wash my hands of their filth and their demonstrably false claim that they follow the Torah.
The only actual group who follows the Torah is the Samaritans and they are still there on Mount Gerizim.

 

[Lyfe]

If we have been baptized into Christ we are partakers of the divine nature and have been refashioned into his image as new men. No true child of God would be able to embrace his former corrupt practices, because he is a new creature and sin is contrary to them. Yes it's possible to backslide and every child of God is at a different place in their walk, but God is working on and through them to perfect them in Christ.

The law is is an external regulation whereas the covenant Christ came to establish brings inward transformation.

Proverbs 6:23
For the commandment is a lamp, the Law is light,
and reproofs that discipline are the way to life.

How do you believe the law is meant to relate to a Christian who is now under the new covenant? That's the question of many, I think.

Paul contrasted the ministration of the law vs the ministration of the spirit(2 Corinthians 3) and said that the latter is the new way in which we are now called to live for and walk with God.

The law is external and written on stones whereas the holy spirit transforms a person inwardly into a new man. The problem has always been with the human heart. It's the heart that is sick. In the new covenant God directly deals with the heart.

 

[Infinityloop]

The law is is an external regulation whereas the covenant Christ came to establish brings inward transformation.

But we can give countless examples from both the Tanakh (Old Testament) and external Jewish tradition that "the law" has always been seen as a much more spiritual thing than simply laws on their own.

Even in Deuteronomy (6) in one of the crucial chapters we have:

And these words which I command you this day shall be upon your heart; 7 and you shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, and when you walk by the way, and when you lie down, and when you rise.

 

[The Sojourner]

The Talmud(s) (there are two) wasn't written until around the 8th/9th century, the earliest manuscripts are from even later.

Before that the pharisees transferred it orally from one generation to the next. They were already following it in Jesus' day, instead of the Torah, as can be seen by Jesus' rebuke of them concerning their traditions.

Mark
7:3 For the politicians, and all the Jews, except they wash [their] hands oft, eat not, holding the "Tradition of the Elders" (Talmud).
7:4 And [when they come] from the market, except they wash, they eat not. And many other things there be, which they have received to hold, [as] the washing of cups, and pots, brasen vessels, and of tables.
7:5 Then the politicians and lawyers asked him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the "Tradition of the Elders" (Talmud), but eat bread with unwashen hands?
7:6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Isaiah prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with [their] lips, but their heart is FAR from me.
7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men.
7:8 For laying aside the COMMANDment of God, ye hold the "Tradition" of men, [as] the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
7:9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the COMMANDment of God, that ye may keep your own "Tradition".
7:10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
7:11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, [It is] Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; [he shall be free].
7:12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
7:13 Making the Word of God of no effect through your "Tradition" (Talmud), which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

 

[Lyfe]

But we can give countless examples from both the Tanakh (Old Testament) and external Jewish tradition that "the law" has always been seen as a much more spiritual thing than simply laws on their own.

Even in Deuteronomy (6) in one of the crucial chapters we have:

And these words which I command you this day shall be upon your heart; 7 and you shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, and when you walk by the way, and when you lie down, and when you rise.

The law is indeed good and holy, and spiritual. On the flip side it has always proven to be an indictment on man's sinfulness. It says we are guilty and proves we need a savior!

 

[Infinityloop]

Psalm 119 is a good example, lots of stuff about the Torah in it:

17 Deal bountifully with thy servant,
that I may live and observe thy word.
18 Open my eyes, that I may behold
wondrous things out of thy law.
...............
51 Godless men utterly deride me,
but I do not turn away from thy law.
52 When I think of thy ordinances from of old,
I take comfort, O Lord.
53 Hot indignation seizes me because of the wicked,
who forsake thy law.
54 Thy statutes have been my songs
in the house of my pilgrimage.
55 I remember thy name in the night, O Lord,
and keep thy law.
56 This blessing has fallen to me,
that I have kept thy precepts.
.............
69 The godless besmear me with lies,
but with my whole heart I keep thy precepts;
70 their heart is gross like fat,
but I delight in thy law.
71 It is good for me that I was afflicted,
that I might learn thy statutes.
72 The law of thy mouth is better to me
than thousands of gold and silver pieces.
...........
97 Oh, how I love thy law!
It is my meditation all the day.
98 Thy commandment makes me wiser than my enemies,
for it is ever with me.
99 I have more understanding than all my teachers,
for thy testimonies are my meditation.
100 I understand more than the aged,
for I keep thy precepts.
..............
153 Look on my affliction and deliver me,
for I do not forget thy law.
154 Plead my cause and redeem me;
give me life according to thy promise!
155 Salvation is far from the wicked,
for they do not seek thy statutes.

 

[Infinityloop]

The law is indeed good and holy, and spiritual. On the flip side it has always proven to be an indictment on man's sinfulness. It says we are guilty and proves we need a savior!

The Torah has both blessings and curses. The typical way I see Christians representing it though (both on here and elsewhere, in in general tradition) is that it is only curses and that has no blessings at all and is only a prophecy for a coming messiah etc.

 

[The Sojourner]

John 7:19 Did not Moses give you The Law, and [yet] none of you keepeth The Law? Why go ye about to kill me?

 

[JoChris]

You were asked whether you keep The Law/Commandments of God because it bears directly on your qualifications to understand, much less critique ANYTHING spiritual, i.e. Scripture (which is ALL spiritual). If you don't even understand the difference between unlawful, man-made legislation and God's Law, then it's highly unlikely you keep God's Law. And if you don't keep God's Law, then you clearly aren't inspired by the Holy Spirit.

That's why you should be answering these questions, so that you can start to be honest with yourself and others. It would also help you understand your own motives, e.g. why you believe anyone needs your opinion about a book you clearly don't understand and have chosen to attack out of malice.

If The Way home or face The Fire by JAH was as "off-target" as you are falsely claiming it is, then all you should need to do is to post the actual text and leave it at that.

Your personal(?) commentary/satanic spin is not needed, nor is it helping you or others. You would do well to actually study, learn and practice what it says in the little book (Rev. 10:6-10) so that you can begin to have the Holy Spirit guiding you through Scriptures instead of the Opposer (Satan).

Please consider all of this carefully, as if your real, eternal life depended upon it which, of course, it does.

God Bless.

I most certainly am considering serious things, including AJH's legal history. Another half-compliment I can give the man is that he sure has kept the courts busy over time! He must be incredibly persistent. It is pretty easy to find supporters' links that cover his cases.

This defence tomorrow (2011)

First sentence: "If everyone began using this defence tomorrow, in all of the Commonwealth courts and in the United States, the entire legal system could be brought to its knees in a matter of weeks if not days."

This is the actual excuse (p.4):

1. Elizabeth Alexandra Mary Battenberg’s Fraudulent Coronation.

1. The person who purports to be the queen has never, in fact, rightfully or Lawfully been crowned as the Sovereign. This knowledge stems from the fact that the Coronation Stone / The Stone of Destiny / Bethel / Jacob’s Pillar that Elizabeth Alexandra Mary Battenberg was crowned upon is a fake. The real Coronation Stone; made from Bethel porphyry, weighing more than 4cwt. (458lbs.) according to the BBC telex in the film ―The Coronation Stone‖, (Covenant Recordings), and Ian R. Hamilton Q.C. in three of his books: ―No Stone Unturned‖ (pages 36, 44), ―A Touch of Treason‖ (page 50) and ―The Taking of The Stone of Destiny‖ (pages 27, 35); was removed from Westminster Abbey at 04:00 hrs on the 25th of December in 1950, by his group of four Scottish Nationalist students, which included and was led by Ian Robertson Hamilton himself. The other three were Alan Stuart, Gavin Vernon and Kay Matheson, as stated in his books. Further details at: http://jahtruth.net/stone.htm .

----

There is nothing in the bible to suggest people should not bow to their rulers over whether a stone of Destiny is fake or not.
Surely in the BIBLE there would have been a commandment about size of stones for thrones if it was so important to obey a ruler or not?!!!


Romans 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

--

Despite the incredible amusement I gain from this debacle, enough said.... for now....

 

[Lyfe]

The Torah has both blessings and curses. The typical way I see Christians representing it though (both on here and elsewhere, in in general tradition) is that it is only curses and that has no blessings at all and is only a prophecy for a coming messiah etc.

Muslims and Jews don't accept the new testament teaching on how to properly interpret the Torah. It's true meaning and purpose is revealed in the NT. If they reject this then all they are left with is The Law. They are still stuck in time.

 

[Infinityloop]

Muslims and Jews don't accept the new testament teaching on how to properly interpret the Torah. It's true meaning and purpose is revealed in the NT. If they reject this then all they are left with is The Law. They are still stuck in time.

You are dodging the point here.

Read Deuteronomy 28. Read Leviticus 26.

Leviticus 26:1-13 are blessings, Leviticus 26:14-45 are curses.
Deuteronomy 28:1-14 are blessings, Deuteronomy 28:15-68 are curses.

Have I misrepresented the text? are the blessings really curses too?

There are both blessings and curses. Not just curses.
It's a matter of exegesis and you simply are misrepresenting the text or don't know the text at all.

Spoiler: Muslims

I shouldn't have to say but the Muslim statement is ridiculous when we do not accept the Bible at all as an authority, whether that be the Torah in it's extant state or the New Testament. These are only writings of men which contain fragments of what God revealed but the texts themselves are as fallible as any other book.

Jews reject Jesus wholesale, so the Jewish point is also moot. If a Jew accepts Jesus then he becomes a Christian.

But as I said you are dodging the point.

 

[JoChris]

3:56 Many of you say, “Why doesn’t God talk to ME?” He does! To each and every one of you, but YOU don’t LISTEN to Him.
There isn't anything to suggest in the bible that god speaks to every individual (Muslims, please let us know the Quran's position on above claim).

---
3:57 YOUR real conscience is YOU, and what you decide to do in a test. When Satan tempts you, and God tells you, with His good voice, NOT to do what he says, and that what Satan says is wrong, what you then decide to do, is your conscience.

AJH appears to think that everyone's conscience is correct and functioning all the time. We are sinners - sometimes we are very skilled at convincing ourselves that what we do is not wrong, it is justified in our case.



---
YOU are your conscience, NOT the good voice, and you are each, independently, responsible for YOUR own soul. It doesn’t matter what EVERYONE else does, they are not responsible for YOU. ! THEY are responsible for THEIRS, whether they believe it or not.

 

[Infinityloop]

I most certainly am considering serious things, including AJH's legal history. Another half-compliment I can give the man is that he sure has kept the courts busy over time! He must be incredibly persistent. It is pretty easy to find supporters' links that cover his cases.

This defence tomorrow (2011)

First sentence: "If everyone began using this defence tomorrow, in all of the Commonwealth courts and in the United States, the entire legal system could be brought to its knees in a matter of weeks if not days."

This is the actual excuse (p.4):

1. Elizabeth Alexandra Mary Battenberg’s Fraudulent Coronation.

1. The person who purports to be the queen has never, in fact, rightfully or Lawfully been crowned as the Sovereign. This knowledge stems from the fact that the Coronation Stone / The Stone of Destiny / Bethel / Jacob’s Pillar that Elizabeth Alexandra Mary Battenberg was crowned upon is a fake. The real Coronation Stone; made from Bethel porphyry, weighing more than 4cwt. (458lbs.) according to the BBC telex in the film ―The Coronation Stone‖, (Covenant Recordings), and Ian R. Hamilton Q.C. in three of his books: ―No Stone Unturned‖ (pages 36, 44), ―A Touch of Treason‖ (page 50) and ―The Taking of The Stone of Destiny‖ (pages 27, 35); was removed from Westminster Abbey at 04:00 hrs on the 25th of December in 1950, by his group of four Scottish Nationalist students, which included and was led by Ian Robertson Hamilton himself. The other three were Alan Stuart, Gavin Vernon and Kay Matheson, as stated in his books. Further details at: http://jahtruth.net/stone.htm .

----

There is nothing in the bible to suggest people should not bow to their rulers over whether a stone of Destiny is fake or not.
Surely in the BIBLE there would have been a commandment about size of stones for thrones if it was so important to obey a ruler or not?!!!


Romans 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

--

Despite the incredible amusement I gain from this debacle, enough said.... for now....

Lol is Jahtruth really going Excalibur on us too?

 

[JoChris]

3:58 Satan talks to your animal body, and has deceived you into thinking that you are no more than a crude, smelly animal, with obscene body-functions, when you are really spirit, and only temporarily imprisoned in the crude, animal body that you are using, at the moment, which has to eat; go to the toilet; get old and wrinkled and die; etc.

Where in the bible does it suggest that God views our body as an animal body?!!!




Some Gnostics viewed the body as evil and therefore to be punished like AJH appears to there.

Gnosticism, Gender and power in Christianity
...The implications of gnosticism for gender issues is evident in the view of the body. If the body is merely an evil cage keeping the soul on earth, then the gender of this body is rather unimportant. Different gnostics viewed sex differently. One of these views was that active chastity shows far too much preoccupation with the body. Sex was seen not as a sin, but as a way for humans to reach a more primal state. During sex, woman and man would become one body. Since Eve was born from Adam, becoming one body would bring a man and woman closer to the true God. On the other hand, some Gnostics believed that sex is in fact a sin. This is for two major reasons. The first is that sex is pleasing to the evil body, and that denial of the body is just punishment. The second reason is that procreation is merely the act of allowing more divine sparks to be imprisoned in evil worldly bodies. By remaining chaste, the gnostic refuses to participate in this evil action.

---
3:59 You seem to want to believe Satan, and that you are no better than a smelly animal.

I have never read or heard a single person say such a stupid thing!
Does AJH imagine the modern average person still thinks like some religious extremists from the Middle Ages?!!!

You don’t seem to want to be divine again.

We never have been divine. AJH is a gnostic.

Wikipedia - divine spark
In Gnosticism, the divine spark is the portion of God that resides within each human being.[1]

The purpose of life is to enable the Divine Spark to be released from its captivity in matter and reestablish its connection with, or simply return to, God, who is perceived as being the source of the Divine Light. In the Gnostic Christian tradition, Christ is seen as a wholly divine being which has taken human form in order to lead humanity back to the Light.[2]

---

3:60-3:65 just expands on 3:59. IMO it is very sad to see such a shallow viewpoint on how and why God made us.

3:60 Satan tries to talk you into enjoying what feels physically good, to the animal, e.g. sex; egotism; materialism; selfishness; competition and superiority; the inflicting of pain; killing; beating; depravity and perversion; etc., to try to get you as low as he is, so that you will NEVER be able to go home, and he is the serpent, always eating dust - as low as you can get (Genesis 3:14).

3:61 You, being really spirit, will never get true and lasting joy, or satisfaction, from animalpleasures, as nice as they can be. It is self-defeating and a vicious-circle. The more you try, the more you feel you need, and the worse things become. A perfect example of this is nymphomania, where the subject confuses love with sex, which, being animal, does NOT bring true satisfaction and spiritual fulfillment. Satan then (from within) deceives them into thinking, that, if they get enough sex, they will be fulfilled, and they try desperately to get enough sex. Unfortunately, Satan is a liar, ARMAGEDDON SURVIVAL-KIT CD available from http://JAHTruth.net/ask 13 and has tricked them, once again, and they run around desperately, in a vicious-circle. The more sex they get, the less fulfilled they feel, so they try even harder and harder, becoming more and more lost; lonely; desperate and confused.

3:62 You are not an animal, you are spirit. Animal pleasures alone will NEVER satisfy your soul’s (your) need for spiritual love, and fulfillment.

3:63 God, the source of spiritual love (God is love), is the answer to EVERY question, problem, or illness in your life. Once you have found God, and acknowledge Him, as your Father, you automatically have the solution to every problem and illness, so long as you have “DIRECT” contact, and do what He tells you to do (His Will).

3:64 Learn to know the difference, between REAL love and animal sex or lust!

3:65 The reason, or logic, behind God designing human+beings, is that the soul has to overcome and control the animal, then use it to give love (spiritual and pure) and affection (human), and to always do for the benefit of everyone. You have to overcome both the animal and spiritual SELFishness, thereby making it twice as difficult to achieve, and so, consequently, making the end result twice as effective.

 

[JoChris]

Lol is Jahtruth really going Excalibur on us too?

There is way more, I promise you. This was the shortest clip I could find on British Israelism. The rest were a lot longer, mostly Christian apologists addressing the heresy .

 

[The Sojourner]

3:58 Satan talks to your animal body, and has deceived you into thinking that you are no more than a crude, smelly animal, with obscene body-functions, when you are really spirit, and only temporarily imprisoned in the crude, animal body that you are using, at the moment, which has to eat; go to the toilet; get old and wrinkled and die; etc.

Where in the bible does it suggest that God views our body as an animal body?!!!

Ecclesiastes
3:18 I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might show them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.
3:19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a human hath no preeminence above a beast: for all [is] vanity.
3:20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.

 

[JoChris]

Ecclesiastes
3:18 I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might show them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.
3:19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a human hath no preeminence above a beast: for all [is] vanity.
3:20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.

People die, animals die. That doesn't mean we are therefore animals.
We die because of the sins of Adam and Eve.

Genesis 2:16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

The bible says man. it does not say man-animal anywhere. AJH made that up.