why Christians reject Roman Catholic church

[A Freeman]

Matthew 28:18-20 New Catholic Bible (inserted/substituted portion in red)
28:18 Then Jesus approached them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
28:19 Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit (original text: "my name"),
28:20 and teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the world.”

There is a nice, evidence-based write-up on this added text to be found at the following link:

Was Matthew 28:19 Added To The Bible

Does Matthew 29:19 have added text and do we baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost or into the name of Jesus Christ only?

www.trinitytruth.org

It is noteworthy that IF the "trinitarian" wording was actually part of the original text, then it would mean that ALL of the disciples and apostles disobeyed Christ, because NONE of them baptised in any other name but that of Jesus, which means "Saviour" (or, more specifically, "YHWH Saves").

1 John 5:6-8 Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (inserted portion in red)
5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, Jesus Christ: not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit which testifieth, that Christ is the truth.
5:7 And there are three who give testimony in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost. And these three are one.
5:8 And there are three that give testimony on earth: the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three are one.

The nefarious addition to this passage is widely recognized, even by "trinitarian" apologists, which is why the inserted portion has been deleted from most modern day translations, after discovering it wasn't added to the Bible until the 16th century. The infamous inserted portion in 1 John 5:7-8 was even dubbed "the Johannine comma", to facilitate discussing its deceitful origin.

Johannine Comma - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

So the original Biblical text contained no such "trinitarian" text, and was only inserted to deceive people into believing otherwise. And yet this Roman Catholic doctrine has made its way into almost all of the protestant denominations, who not only believe it but fight to defend this totally satanic and unscriptural doctrine.

 

[A Freeman]

From your studies of the Qur’an, are you aware of any verses polemicising or debunking the formulation of the Trinity as historically understood as holding:

“… we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity; Neither confounding the Persons: nor dividing the Substance. For there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son: and another of the Holy Ghost. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, is all one: the Glory equal, the Majesty co-eternal. Such as the Father is, such is the Son: and such is the Holy Ghost….”​

I don’t expect exact theological precision, but just something that correctly identifies the Trinity as Father, Son and Holy Spirit in the Qur’an. If it doesn’t, the writer of the Qur’an was actually the one attacking a straw man.

Why do you continually promote man-made doctrines and traditions, and hold them in such high-regard, often above what it actually says in the Bible? THERE IS NO "TRINITY".

If the "trinitarian formula" isn't defined anywhere in the Bible (to which it was added by the Roman Catholic church), then why would one expect to find it in the Koran/Quran? The Koran/Quran was actually sent by God as confirmation of the Old and New Covenant, and to reform errant Roman Catholic doctrines that are found nowhere in Scripture.

The Koran/Quran should have sparked the first reformation, rather than being turned into yet another evil, organised religion with its own legion of made-up traditions, rites, rituals and silly superstitions.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Why do you continually promote man-made doctrines and traditions, and hold them in such high-regard, often above what it actually says in the Bible? THERE IS NO "TRINITY".

If the "trinitarian formula" isn't defined anywhere in the Bible (to which it was added by the Roman Catholic church), then why would one expect to find it in the Koran/Quran? The Koran/Quran was actually sent by God as confirmation of the Old and New Covenant, and to reform errant Roman Catholic doctrines that are found nowhere in Scripture.

The Koran/Quran should have sparked the first reformation, rather than being turned into yet another evil, organised religion with its own legion of made-up traditions, rites, rituals and silly superstitions.

I think you need to let it go now @A Freeman

The elevation of Mary by the Catholic Church has nothing to do with the Bible. The fact that the writer of the Qur’an attacks an idea the Bible never even suggests indicates that in the seventh century the writer [quite reasonably] observed the idolatry of the Catholic Church and attacked it in his writings. What it also indicates is that the Qur’an is not inspired and not harmonious with the Biblical record. As such, the King of Kings Bible is a book of straw.

 

[monkeylove]

Unlike Roman Catholics like to tell us, the RC teaches a great deal that is UNbiblical.
No mention of purgatory in 66 books of bible.
Excessive honour to Mary and saints.
Works righteousness.
Multiple extra biblical teachings and traditions.
No knowledge of the Gospel.

That is the tip of the iceberg.
P.S. I am an ex Catholic brought up old school, with nuns for teachers and all.

The books that make up the Bible were selected by the Church. The latter even existed before the Bible was put together.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

The books that make up the Bible were selected by the Church. The latter even existed before the Bible was put together.

A plethora of genuine and falsely attributed books were produced. The “church” as in Christians of experience, learning etc used their knowledge and discernment to distinguish genuine from fake. In some circumstances that was easy, in others I suspect finer deliberations were involved.

One or two still raise debate like the Book of Gad the Seer and Enoch. I have read others and they genuinely don’t “fit in”.

 

[PsyOpPrinceII]

We should not be working on Saturdays, beginning Friday night at sundown.

Why Saturday? Does that not count for the reverence of Saturn?

 

[A Freeman]

The elevation of Mary by the Catholic Church has nothing to do with the Bible.

Agreed. And neither does the elevation of the "trinity" by the Roman Catholic church. Both are anti-Biblical doctrines.

The fact that the writer of the Qur’an attacks an idea the Bible never even suggests indicates that in the seventh century the writer [quite reasonably] observed the idolatry of the Catholic Church and attacked it in his writings.

The Bible repeatedly condemns the very same man-made doctrines and traditions, if anyone takes notice, making it crystal clear over 600 years before the birth of Jesus that THERE IS NO QUEEN OF HEAVEN.

Mary worship was merely a Roman Catholic adaption of the pagan, Babylonian practice spoken about in Jeremiah 7:18 and 44:17-25, which literally record the ritual of making wafers and drink offerings to the nonexistent "queen of heaven". The Romans are the direct descendants of the Babylonians, so this should really come as no surprise.

Similarly, conning people into believing one God somehow means 3 gods in one that aren't really three but aren't really one either, is also a Roman Catholic adaption of the pagan, Babylonian practice. Just as X-mas and Ishtar/Easter are.

So the Quran is actually confirming what is in the Bible, which condemns these man-made practices and traditions. It's actually you who very hypocritically seem to enjoy attacking the errant beliefs of "Muslims", which are found nowhere in the Koran/Quran, whilst ignoring how many pagan beliefs "Christianity" espouses. Why do you do that please? Is it out of ignorance of what the Old Covenant, New Covenant and the Koran/Quran tell us, or is it willfully being deceitful?

What it also indicates is that the Qur’an is not inspired and not harmonious with the Biblical record. As such, the King of Kings Bible is a book of straw.

Another totally illogical conclusion based on ignorance or the deceit on your part intention?

The Koran/Quran repeatedly COMMANDS its readers that they MUST read, study and keep The Covenants, i.e. the Old and the New Covenants, which the Koran was sent to CONFIRM.

See: Sura 2:53, 2:87-93, 2:97-98, 3:1-3, 3:48-50, 4:47, 4:54, 5:46-51, 6:91-94, 6:154-157, 7:157, 9:111, 10:37, 11:17, 12:111, 15:9-10, 17:2-4, 21:48, 22:52, 23:20, 23:49, 25:35, 28:1-3, 32:23, 35:25-32, 37:117, 40:53, 40:70, 41:45, 42:14-17, 45:16, 46:12, 46:30, 48:29, 53:36-47, 57:25-29,61:6-7, 78:2

Sadly, neither "Christians" nor "Muslims" seem to understand what the word "confirm" actually means (it doesn't mean contradict), because they have been programmed to see everything upside down and backwards (believing that the truth is a lie and that lies are the truth) by their evil organised relgions.

Anyone who mistakenly believes that God would allow anyone other than His Christ to publish the King of kings' Bible during these end-times is so far into Satan's grip that there is no hope for them. Of course that too is part of prophecy, as those of this world always attack Christ and His True Followers/Disciples, just as they attacked Him 2000 years ago, when He was here in the body of Jesus.

John 3:19-21
3:19 And this is the condemnation, that Light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than Light, because their deeds were evil.
3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the Light, neither cometh to the Light, lest his deeds should be revealed.
3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the Light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

John 7:6-7
7:6 Then Jesus said unto them, My time is not yet come: but your time is always ready.
7:7 The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil.

John 15:18-25
15:18 If the world hate you, ye know that it HATED me before [it hated] you.
15:19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world HATETH you.
15:20 Remember the Truth that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they WILL also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.
15:21 But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not Him that sent me.
15:22 If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloke for their sin.
15:23 He that hateth me hateth my Father also.
15:24 If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and HATED both me and my Father.
15:25 But [this cometh to pass], that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their Law, They HATED me without a cause.

Let go of the hate (borne out of arrogance and ignorance), which will always blind one to the Truth. Only the Truth can set you free.

 

[Lyfe]

How do you reconcile the biblical account of what happened to Jesus( at the cross) with what the Korean says? You can't. The cross was the saving act and what makes it possible for man to be in fellowship with God again. What does the Korean do? It removes this. In the Bible Christ finished his mission. In the Koran account he did not. Big difference. If Christ did not give himself up and finish his mission then that means I am still in my sin and without hope and without God.

Truth and error is never obvious with the wiles of the enemy. The difference is often slight and subtle. This is why we must earnestly contend for the faith with the word of God and allow it to train our senses to discern good and evil.

If one suggests that The Bible is not sufficient enough to have a complete understanding of salvation then such a person is deceived.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

How do you reconcile the biblical account of what happened to Jesus( at the cross) with what the Korean says? You can't.

The law of non contradiction says you can’t. It’s that simple @Lyfe

The Qur’an and the Bible have different spiritual inspiration. To keep pretending, however long the post that it is otherwise is simply self-deception.

 

[Lyfe]

The law of non contradiction says you can’t. It’s that simple @Lyfe

The Qur’an and the Bible have different spiritual inspiration. To keep pretending, however long the post that it is otherwise is simply self-deception.

The Koran proclaims a different gospel and we know what Paul says about other gospels. If we submit to lies we open the door to seducing spirits and doctrines of demons. The deception becomes spiritual and more than just intellectual.

 

[Lyfe]

We literally live in a sea of lies and deceptions. You talk to people and most have made up their own belief system and put the stamp of truth on it. They defend it like it's truth.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Agreed. And neither does the elevation of the "trinity" by the Roman Catholic church. Both are anti-Biblical doctrines.

Really?



Who is the First and the Last??

4 Who has performed and done it, Calling the generations from the beginning? ‘I, the LORD, am the first; and with the last; I am He.’
~Isaiah 41:4

6 “Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel, And his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: ‘I am the First and I am the Last; Besides Me there is no God.
~Isaiah 44:6

12 “Listen to Me, O Jacob, And Israel, My called: I am He, I am the First, I am also the Last.
~Isaiah 48:12

7 Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen. 8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”
~Revelation 1:7-8

17 And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. But He laid His right hand on me, saying to me, “Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last.
~Revelation 1:17

8 “And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write, ‘These things says the First and the Last, who was dead, and came to life:
~Revelation 2:8

Who is “The First and the Last”

4 Who has performed and done it, Calling the generations from the beginning? ‘I, the LORD, am the first; and with the last; I am He.’ ~Isaiah 41:4 YHWH? 6 “Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel, And his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: ‘I am the First and I am the Last; Besides Me there is no...

vigilantcitizenforums.com

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Why Saturday? Does that not count for the reverence of Saturn?

The attribution of Saturn to Satan post-dates the designation of the seventh day as the sabbath. Tells you a lot about the spiritual origins of mythology though…

 

[JoChris]

Agreed. And neither does the elevation of the "trinity" by the Roman Catholic church. Both are anti-Biblical doctrines.


The Bible repeatedly condemns the very same man-made doctrines and traditions, if anyone takes notice, making it crystal clear over 600 years before the birth of Jesus that THERE IS NO QUEEN OF HEAVEN.

Mary worship was merely a Roman Catholic adaption of the pagan, Babylonian practice spoken about in Jeremiah 7:18 and 44:17-25, which literally record the ritual of making wafers and drink offerings to the nonexistent "queen of heaven". The Romans are the direct descendants of the Babylonians, so this should really come as no surprise.

Similarly, conning people into believing one God somehow means 3 gods in one that aren't really three but aren't really one either, is also a Roman Catholic adaption of the pagan, Babylonian practice. Just as X-mas and Ishtar/Easter are.

So the Quran is actually confirming what is in the Bible, which condemns these man-made practices and traditions. It's actually you who very hypocritically seem to enjoy attacking the errant beliefs of "Muslims", which are found nowhere in the Koran/Quran, whilst ignoring how many pagan beliefs "Christianity" espouses. Why do you do that please? Is it out of ignorance of what the Old Covenant, New Covenant and the Koran/Quran tell us, or is it willfully being deceitful?


Another totally illogical conclusion based on ignorance or the deceit on your part intention?

The Koran/Quran repeatedly COMMANDS its readers that they MUST read, study and keep The Covenants, i.e. the Old and the New Covenants, which the Koran was sent to CONFIRM.

See: Sura 2:53, 2:87-93, 2:97-98, 3:1-3, 3:48-50, 4:47, 4:54, 5:46-51, 6:91-94, 6:154-157, 7:157, 9:111, 10:37, 11:17, 12:111, 15:9-10, 17:2-4, 21:48, 22:52, 23:20, 23:49, 25:35, 28:1-3, 32:23, 35:25-32, 37:117, 40:53, 40:70, 41:45, 42:14-17, 45:16, 46:12, 46:30, 48:29, 53:36-47, 57:25-29,61:6-7, 78:2

Sadly, neither "Christians" nor "Muslims" seem to understand what the word "confirm" actually means (it doesn't mean contradict), because they have been programmed to see everything upside down and backwards (believing that the truth is a lie and that lies are the truth) by their evil organised relgions.

Anyone who mistakenly believes that God would allow anyone other than His Christ to publish the King of kings' Bible during these end-times is so far into Satan's grip that there is no hope for them. Of course that too is part of prophecy, as those of this world always attack Christ and His True Followers/Disciples, just as they attacked Him 2000 years ago, when He was here in the body of Jesus.

John 3:19-21
3:19 And this is the condemnation, that Light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than Light, because their deeds were evil.
3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the Light, neither cometh to the Light, lest his deeds should be revealed.
3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the Light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

John 7:6-7
7:6 Then Jesus said unto them, My time is not yet come: but your time is always ready.
7:7 The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil.

John 15:18-25
15:18 If the world hate you, ye know that it HATED me before [it hated] you.
15:19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world HATETH you.
15:20 Remember the Truth that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they WILL also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.
15:21 But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not Him that sent me.
15:22 If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloke for their sin.
15:23 He that hateth me hateth my Father also.
15:24 If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and HATED both me and my Father.
15:25 But [this cometh to pass], that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their Law, They HATED me without a cause.

Let go of the hate (borne out of arrogance and ignorance), which will always blind one to the Truth. Only the Truth can set you free.

So are you saying Jahtruth commands us to follow the Commandments in the (self-paraphrased) Koran itself- YES or NO?

 

[A Freeman]

How do you reconcile the biblical account of what happened to Jesus( at the cross) with what the Korean says?

The Law that God gave us tells us that multiple witnesses are required to decide any matter, particularly those that are life and death (Deut. 17:6, 19:15).

Deuteronomy 17:6 At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he that is worthy of death be put to death; [but] at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death.

Deuteronomy 19:15 One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established.

This allegedly irreconcilable difference is about a single verse which, when properly translated and read, is in perfect agreement with the other two references in the Koran/Quran to Jesus' death and resurrection, as well as with the prophesies about it in the Old Covenant, and the historical references to the actual event when it happened in the New Covenant.

And even the one verse that is commonly misunderstood (Sura 4:157) tells us that God raised Jesus in the very next verse (Sura 4:158), proving anyone who claims Jesus wasn't crucified is obviously misinterpreting what the previous verse actually says.

And this is on top of the dozens of references in the Koran/Quran instructing everyone to refer back to The Law and the Gospel, which should leave no doubt that they all MUST be in agreement when properly translated, read and understood.

All of this is explained in detail at the following link, and in other threads on this forum, where others, both "Christian" and "Muslim", have made this false claim.

The Top 10 Myths that Dominate "Islam"

“Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ the Nazarite, whom ye crucified, WHOM GOD RAISED FROM THE DEAD, [even] by him doth this man stand here before you whole. THIS is the Stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the...

vigilantcitizenforums.com

You can't.

As above please. The exact opposite is true and has already been done.

The cross was the saving act and what makes it possible for man to be in fellowship with God again.

Agreed. It's actually much more than that, because we would all have already been executed long ago had it not been for the sacrifice that Christ made.

What does the Korean do? It removes this.

As above please. It doesn't remove that IF the Koran is properly translated, read and understood.

In the Bible Christ finished his mission. In the Koran account he did not. Big difference. If Christ did not give himself up and finish his mission then that means I am still in my sin and without hope and without God.

Have you ever read the Koran (Quran) for yourself please or are you assuming you know what it says (and thus arguing from a point of ignorance)?

Truth and error is never obvious with the wiles of the enemy. The difference is often slight and subtle. This is why we must earnestly contend for the faith with the word of God and allow it to train our senses to discern good and evil.

Agreed. The devil is always in the details, which you apparently have overlooked to arrive at your erroneous conclusions.

If one suggests that The Bible is not sufficient enough to have a complete understanding of salvation then such a person is deceived.

According to whom? You? Why don't we actually exercise a modicum of faith and trust that God can and does reach out to us every day in an infinite number of ways, which all direct us back to His Word, found in the Old Covenant and New Covenant, which the Koran (Quran) was sent to CONFIRM (NOT to contradict or supersede).

There are reportedly over 2 billion "Muslims", who believe the same LIE that you do about the Koran/Quran, and thus reject the sacrifice that Christ made when Jesus was crucified to pay the penalty for our past sins.

Wouldn't the humble and loving thing to do be to read the Koran, to know exactly what it says, so that you could actually work WITH Christ to reach out to those who have been misled about the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus? Isn't that part of loving your neighbour as much or more than yourself, as Christ COMMANDS?

 

[A Freeman]

We literally live in a sea of lies and deceptions. You talk to people and most have made up their own belief system and put the stamp of truth on it. They defend it like it's truth.

Isn't that what ALL "Christians" are very hypocritically doing (and all "Muslims", and all "Jews", and all Buddhists and Hindus, etc.)? Even when "Christians" are shown Christ's own words which prove their beliefs to be in obvious error they choose their own mistaken beliefs over Christ's own words.

 

[A Freeman]

Why Saturday? Does that not count for the reverence of Saturn?

"Saturday" and "Sabbath Day" sound enough alike that it should prompt someone who questions whether it's the seventh day of the week or not to look into it further. Please see the passage below about the Sabbath day (day of rest) that we have been Commanded to keep (Exod. 20:8-11).

Exodus 31:13-17
31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily My Sabbaths ye shall keep: for it [is] a "Sign" between Me and you throughout your generations; that [ye] may know that I [am] the "I AM" that doth sanctify you.
31:14 Ye shall keep the Sabbath therefore; for it [is] holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth [any] work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
31:15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh [is] the Sabbath of rest, holy to the "I AM": whosoever doeth [any] work in the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
31:16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations, [for] a perpetual Covenant.
31:17 It [is] a "Sign" between Me and the children of Israel for ever: for [in] six days the "I AM" made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day He rested, and was refreshed.

Some clear signs Father (God) has given us all that Saturday is the Sabbath day so that we will honour our perpetual Covenant (everlasting contract) with Him.

English ----- Saturday (Sabbath day)
Hebrew ----- Shabat (which means “rest”)
Greek ----- Σάββατο (Sabbato)
Latin ----- diēs saturnī (Saturday/Sabbath day)
Spanish ----- Sábado (Sabbath day)
Italian ----- Sabato (Sabbath day)
Portuguese ----- Sábado (Sabbath day)
Afrikaans ----- Saterdag (Saturday/Sabbath day)
Dutch ----- Zaterdag (Saturday/Sabbath day)
French ----- Samedi (Saturday/Sabbath day)
Swedish ----- Lördag (The Lord's Day)
Norwegian ----- Lørdag (The Lord's Day)
Danish ----- Lørdag (The Lord's Day)
Croatian ----- Subota (Sabbath day)
Polish ----- Sobota (Sabbath day)
Czech ----- Sobota (Sabbath day)
Russian ----- Суббота (Sabbath day)
Bulgarian ----- Събота (Sabbath day)
Romanian ----- Sâmbătă (Sabbath day)

The seventh day of the week, referred to today as "Saturday", is the weekly Sabbath day, also known as "the Lord's Day", because it's the day God raised Jesus from the dead. It is to be a day of rest, not a day to go to churches or synagogues, or mosques, or temples of any kind (nor should anyone go to those places any other day of the week).

 

[Lyfe]

I would like to clarify. The translation that dictates the beliefs of most Muslims is the incorrect one? What does the correct one say about what happened to Jesus at the cross?

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

The Law that God gave us tells us that multiple witnesses are required to decide any matter, particularly those that are life and death (Deut. 17:6, 19:15).

Deuteronomy 17:6 At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he that is worthy of death be put to death; [but] at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death.

Deuteronomy 19:15 One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established.

This allegedly irreconcilable difference is about a single verse which, when properly translated and read, is in perfect agreement with the other two references in the Koran/Quran to Jesus' death and resurrection, as well as with the prophesies about it in the Old Covenant, and the historical references to the actual event when it happened in the New Covenant.

And even the one verse that is commonly misunderstood (Sura 4:157) tells us that God raised Jesus in the very next verse (Sura 4:158), proving anyone who claims Jesus wasn't crucified is obviously misinterpreting what the previous verse actually says.

And this is on top of the dozens of references in the Koran/Quran instructing everyone to refer back to The Law and the Gospel, which should leave no doubt that they all MUST be in agreement when properly translated, read and understood.

All of this is explained in detail at the following link, and in other threads on this forum, where others, both "Christian" and "Muslim", have made this false claim.

The Top 10 Myths that Dominate "Islam"

“Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ the Nazarite, whom ye crucified, WHOM GOD RAISED FROM THE DEAD, [even] by him doth this man stand here before you whole. THIS is the Stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the...

vigilantcitizenforums.com

As above please. The exact opposite is true and has already been done.


Agreed. It's actually much more than that, because we would all have already been executed long ago had it not been for the sacrifice that Christ made.


As above please. It doesn't remove that IF the Koran is properly translated, read and understood.


Have you ever read the Koran (Quran) for yourself please or are you assuming you know what it says (and thus arguing from a point of ignorance)?


Agreed. The devil is always in the details, which you apparently have overlooked to arrive at your erroneous conclusions.


According to whom? You? Why don't we actually exercise a modicum of faith and trust that God can and does reach out to us every day in an infinite number of ways, which all direct us back to His Word, found in the Old Covenant and New Covenant, which the Koran (Quran) was sent to CONFIRM (NOT to contradict or supersede).

There are reportedly over 2 billion "Muslims", who believe the same LIE that you do about the Koran/Quran, and thus reject the sacrifice that Christ made when Jesus was crucified to pay the penalty for our past sins.

Wouldn't the humble and loving thing to do be to read the Koran, to know exactly what it says, so that you could actually work WITH Christ to reach out to those who have been misled about the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus? Isn't that part of loving your neighbour as much or more than yourself, as Christ COMMANDS?

So DID Jesus [the real one] die on the cross then rise from the dead three days later or not?*

*simple question

 

[lightseeker]

What is today called a "church" is a place that God has judged to be filled with unbelievers (heathens and hypocrites). In the 4 verses you've cited, please see the Greek word that has been intentionally mistranslated as "church" in English version of the Bible.

https://biblehub.com/text/romans/16-5.htm
ekklēsian (wrongly translated as: church)

https://biblehub.com/text/1_corinthians/16-19.htm
ekklēsiai, ekklēsia (wrongly translated as: churches, church)

https://biblehub.com/text/colossians/4-15.htm
ekklēsian (wrongly translated as: church)

https://biblehub.com/text/philemon/1-2.htm
ekklēsia (wrongly translated as: church)

The Greek word “ekklēsia” (and its variants and plural form) does NOT mean “church”, which is a building; it refers to people, i.e. those in a community that gather apart (where two or three are gathered). Paul and the other apostles met with people (fellow believers) in their houses, NOT with churches in their houses.

From: https://firstthoughtsofgod.com/2017/10/19/the-ekklesia-of-jesus-and-paul-is-not-the-church-of-men/ -

Most English bible translators have interpreted the Greek word “ekklesia” as “church”, but “ekklesia” has nothing to do with the word “church”! Every word study and reference available agree that the word “church” does not come from the original Koine Greek word “ekklesia”, but comes from a different, late Greek word, which has a totally different meaning!


“Ekklesia” means an assembly of the “called out”, or “gathered apart”. In Scripture, it refers to a “convocation, assembly, or congregation”. “Ekklesia” clearly refers to people.
However, the word “church”, as you will learn, is defined as a place (physical building and its associated institutional infrastructure), and not as a people. That is the difference. Now, a group of believers, the Ekklesia, may go to a “church” building to worship God, but the “church” building and its supporting infrastructue is not the Ekklesia.


The English word “church” is derived from the Greek word kyrios, meaning ruler or lord. Specifically, it comes into English in the context of, “kyriake oikia”, “Lord’s house”, which by the 4th century was shortened to the adjective “kyriakon”, “of the Lord”, and was used to denote houses of Christian worship. Neither “kyriake oikia” nor “kyriakon” ever appear in the Greek New Testament referring to a congregation of worshippers or as a place of worship. This association did not occur until about AD 300, 270 years after Jesus’ Crucifixion. Regardless, this is the late Greek word that was first translated into Old English as “cirice”. It was then translated into Middle English as “chirche“, from which we get the modern English word “church”.

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The reason the word “ekklēsia” was wrongly translated as “church” in English Bibles was to promote the traditions of men which God and His Christ have repeatedly condemned throughout Scripture. Woe to the pastors, woe to the Levites, woe to the scribes and pharisees, etc. and their places of business, dens of thieves and vipers, etc.

We were warned 3000 years ago, through the prophet Isaiah (3:12), that those which lead us (church and state) are leading us astray, TO OUR DESTRUCTION.

God destroyed the only Temple He ever sanctioned to be built on this planet, using the Babylonians to do it c. 588 BC, and then again using their descendants, the Romans, in 70 AD. to send a crystal clear warning: DO NOT GO TO CHURCH. Christ gave us the same warning in writing many times throughout the Gospel accounts.

ALL of today’s churches, synagogues, mosques and temples, etc. were built by men listening to Satan, and are manned by Satan’s priests, pastors, rabbis, and imams, etc., which is why God said He does NOT dwell in them.

When God condemns a practice, it means it is evil, NOT Scriptural/Biblical, regardless of how popular it may be. No wonder Christ said these times would be just like the times of Noah, where everyone did whatever they pleased, and thought themselves to be “good”, right up until the moment they were destroyed by the flood.

The only difference this time is it will be The Fire.

This makes no sense. So I assume you aren’t against christians meeting in the name of Christ. But if they meet in a building suddenly it’s evil? Or is that ok but if it’s a building with a cross on the wall it’s evil? Or the cross is ok but if it has a bell tower that’s evil? I think you really missed that mark of that teaching, which was about an attitude people had in prayer, not meeting in a building