Some simple questions about the "trinity" that no "Christian" seems to be able to answer

[A Freeman]

John is of course talking about Jesus. Anyone can read it ...



John 1 1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was in the beginning with God. 3All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not [a]comprehend it.

6There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7This man came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all through him might believe. 8He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. 9That was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world.

10He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11He came to His [c]own, and His [d]own did not receive Him. 12But as many as received Him, to them He gave the [e]right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

14And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

15John bore witness of Him and cried out, saying, “This was He of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me [f]is preferred before me, for He was before me.’ ”

16[g]And of His fullness we have all received, and grace for grace. 17For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten [h]Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.

Wrong again. Read what it ACTUALLY says, NOT what you want it to mean to hammer-fit your pagan trinity into it.

 

[Maldarker]

Numbers 23:19 GOD [IS] NOT A MAN, that He should lie; neither the son of man, that He should repent: hath He said, and shall He not do [it]? or hath He spoken, and shall He not make it good?

So why are you putting bold the start of that verse you should also bold the SON OF MAN? Thats not what it means hes not a man that lies like mere humans nor is THE SON OF MAN putting that statement about the two nouns as equal to not lying or to make it simple seems like alot of people don't undertand GOD & SON OF MAN = the same when it comes to lying

GOD no lying = SON OF MAN no lying

where as man does what? Lies plain simple

 

[TokiEl]

Which should leave no reasonable doubt in any rationally-minded human+Being that Jesus is NOT God, which should also explain why Jesus NEVER claimed to be God.

Jesus of course declared to be God. Anyone can read it...




John 8 57Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?”

58Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”



Exodus 3 13Then Moses said to God, “Indeed, when I come to the children of Israel and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they say to me, ‘What is His name?’ what shall I say to them?”

14And God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” And He said, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’ ”

 

[TokiEl]

Wrong again. Read what it ACTUALLY says, NOT what you want it to mean to hammer-fit your pagan trinity into it.

Sit down and shut up you devil's hireling.

 

[A Freeman]

Jesus of course declared to be God. Anyone can read it...




John 8 57Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?”

58Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”



Exodus 3 13Then Moses said to God, “Indeed, when I come to the children of Israel and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they say to me, ‘What is His name?’ what shall I say to them?”

14And God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” And He said, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’ ”

Was Paul declaring to be God too when he said the following?

1 Corinthians 15:10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and His grace which [was bestowed] upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

When Groot (from Guardians of the Galaxy) says "I am Groot" is Groot claiming to be God too in your mind?

 

[TokiEl]

Was Paul declaring to be God too when he said the following?

1 Corinthians 15:10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and His grace which [was bestowed] upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

When Groot (from Guardians of the Galaxy) says "I am Groot" is Groot claiming to be God too in your mind?

You never ever get anything right ! but stubbornly cling to your erroneous opinions.

How can you not be a troll and the devil's hireling ?

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

A prophecy that undeniably proves the veracity of the Bible, and also confirms Jesus’s co-equal nature with the Father.

 

[A Freeman]

In some translations of the Bible, there are one or two phrases that say "Father, Son and Holy Spirit/Ghost", both of which were satanically ADDED to the text by the Roman Catholic church (RCC).


1) The first is found in Matthew 28:19, where the trinitarian wording was added with regard to baptism:-

Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Where the original text (before the tampering) was as follows:-

Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them with the Holy Spirit: in my name (The Saviour),

Was Matthew 28:19 Added To The Bible

Does Matthew 29:19 have added text and do we baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost or into the name of Jesus Christ only?

www.trinitytruth.org

How can we be certain that the trinitarian wording was added to Matthew 28:19? Because to believe otherwise is to believe that 100% of all of the disciples and followers who baptized others did so in direct violation of Christ's Command.

Acts 2:38 “Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”

Acts 8:12 “But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.”

Acts 8:16 “For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.”

Acts 10:48 “And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”

Acts 19:5 “When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.”

Acts 22:16 “And now why tarriest you? arise, and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.”

Romans 6:3 “Know you not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?”

1 Corinthians 1:13 “Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were you baptized in the name of Paul?” [Implied]

Galatians 3:27 “For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.”

This is how we can be absolutely certain that the trinitarian wording was NOT in the original text of Matthew 28:19.


2) 1 John 5:7 is another, where "the Johannine Comma" was added.

Johannine Comma - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

http://www.trinitytruth.org/was1john5_7addedtext.html

Currently, in some translations (with the addition of what is commonly referred to as the “Johannine Comma”):

1 John 5:6-8
5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, [even] Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is Truth.
5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit: and these three are as one.
5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.


Previously, that passage was as follows (before the addition in the 15th century):

1 John 5:6-8
5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, [even] Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is Truth.
5:7 For there are three that bear record,
5:8 the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

Why would anyone foolishly add this wording to the Bible (knowing they will spend eternity in The Fire for doing so), unless they mistakenly believed that the trinity delusion was so weak they needed to add it to the Bible to intentionally deceive others?

 

[Maldarker]

Here's a question if GOD makes a curse who is the only one that can remove said curse & want would be needed.

 

[TokiEl]

Why would anyone foolishly add this wording to the Bible (knowing they will spend eternity in The Fire for doing so), unless they mistakenly believed that the trinity delusion was so weak they needed to add it to the Bible to intentionally deceive others?

The quran is crystal clear about Jesus not being God.

The bible is crystal clear about Jesus being God.


An honest and intelligent person would open one book and close the other... but you make a mish mash of both.

 

[YokeFellow]

The verse you've cited does NOT say that Moses saw God; it is likening his faith and endurance to seeing Him Who is invisible (to human eyes).

Whether you believe Hebrews 11:27 is literal or not, the point is that Moses saw God...

Exodus 33:23
"And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen."

Numbers 12:8
"With him will I speak mouth to mouth, even apparently, and not in dark speeches; and the similitude of the LORD shall he behold: wherefore then were ye not afraid to speak against my servant Moses?"

In other words, Moses saw the Godhead, which is synonymous with the Trinity.

 

[A Freeman]

The quran is crystal clear about Jesus not being God.

The bible is crystal clear about Jesus being God.


An honest and intelligent person would open one book and close the other... but you make a mish mash of both.

John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and [to] MY GOD, and your God.

Sura 3:55. Behold! God said: "O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee SUPERIOR to those who reject faith, to The Day of Resurrection: then shall ye all return unto Me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute.

 

[A Freeman]

Whether you believe Hebrews 11:27 is literal or not, the point is that Moses saw God...

Exodus 33:23
"And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen."

Numbers 12:8
"With him will I speak mouth to mouth, even apparently, and not in dark speeches; and the similitude of the LORD shall he behold: wherefore then were ye not afraid to speak against my servant Moses?"

In other words, Moses saw the Godhead, which is synonymous with the Trinity.

No, the Godhead is NOT synonymous with the "trinity"; there is ONE God (Father - Deut. 6:4, Mark 12:29) and He is THE HEAD of EVERYONE and EVERYTHING, including Christ.

1 Corinthians 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman [is] the man; and the head of Christ [is] God.

 

[A Freeman]

Numbers 23:19 GOD [IS] NOT A MAN, that He should lie; neither the son of man, that He should repent: hath He said, and shall He not do [it]? or hath He spoken, and shall He not make it good?

So why are you putting bold the start of that verse you should also bold the SON OF MAN? Thats not what it means hes not a man that lies like mere humans nor is THE SON OF MAN putting that statement about the two nouns as equal to not lying or to make it simple seems like alot of people don't undertand GOD & SON OF MAN = the same when it comes to lying

GOD no lying = SON OF MAN no lying

where as man does what? Lies plain simple

Numbers 23:19 GOD [IS] NOT A MAN, that He should lie; NEITHER THE SON OF MAN, THAT HE SHOULD REPENT: hath He said, and shall He not do [it]? or hath He spoken, and shall He not make it good?

God is NOT a man (a human); God is a SPIRIT-BEING (John 4:24).
God is NOT the son of man (the son of a human), either. every man lies, and the son of every man does too.

The verse is very clearly NOT referring to Christ, for why would Christ have anything to repent?

 

[Maldarker]

Numbers 23:19 GOD [IS] NOT A MAN, that He should lie; NEITHER THE SON OF MAN, THAT HE SHOULD REPENT: hath He said, and shall He not do [it]? or hath He spoken, and shall He not make it good?

God is NOT a man (a human); God is a SPIRIT-BEING (John 4:24).
God is NOT the son of man (the son of a human), either. every man lies, and the son of every man does too.

The verse is very clearly NOT referring to Christ, for why would Christ have anything to repent?

Actually does and thats what its saying that the Son of MAN doesn't lie nor does GOD its given as they both do it...

ok quick english lesson:

adverb

1. 1.
   used before the first of two (or occasionally more) alternatives that are being specified (the others being introduced by “nor”) to indicate that they are each untrue or each do not happen.
   "unlike her friends, she is neither a snob nor a gossip"
   
   
2. 2.
   used to introduce a further negative statement.
   "he didn't remember, and neither did I"
   

determiner

1. not the one nor the other; not either.
   "neither side of the brain is dominant over the other"
   

pronoun

1. not the one nor the other of two people or things.
   "neither of us believes it"
   
   

 

[Maldarker]

The bible wil never line up with the quran as much as you are trying to will it to sorry but not going to happen.... think the coined term would be chrislam

 

[A Freeman]

Actually does and thats what its saying that the Son of MAN doesn't lie nor does GOD its given as they both do it...

ok quick english lesson:

adverb

1. 1.
   used before the first of two (or occasionally more) alternatives that are being specified (the others being introduced by “nor”) to indicate that they are each untrue or each do not happen.
   "unlike her friends, she is neither a snob nor a gossip"
   
   
2. 2.
   used to introduce a further negative statement.
   "he didn't remember, and neither did I"

determiner

1. not the one nor the other; not either.
   "neither side of the brain is dominant over the other"

pronoun

1. not the one nor the other of two people or things.
   "neither of us believes it"

No, it doesn't. And you didn't answer why Christ would need to repent, just as you haven't answered why you do not follow Christ's Example.

P.S. It may be worthwhile before trying to teach others the English language, to perhaps learn it yourself. The word "neither", used as a determiner, can refer to two people or two things about the same individual.

Example:

"Little Johnny couldn't read very well; neither could the boy understand simple math."

 

[A Freeman]

The bible wil never line up with the quran as much as you are trying to will it to sorry but not going to happen.... think the coined term would be chrislam

There is no need for me to "try" anything; the only thing that prevents you from seeing the truth that ALL Scripture is in perfect harmony when properly translated, properly read and properly understood, is your "self" (the ego), which Christ, Paul and the Koran/Quran have told us we MUST destroy on a daily basis (Matt. 10:38, Mark 8:34, Luke 9:23, Luke 14:26-27, Gal. 2:20, Sura 6:162, Sura 92:18-21).

 

[lightseeker]

Freeman youre free to believe that, but its clearly not christianity. How do you explain these verses then?
"The word was with God, and the Word was God...and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us".
How was the Word with God, and it was God if God is a simple unity. How did the Word God become flesh? Believe what you want but to pretend Christianity doesn't teach that is silly.

 

[A Freeman]

Freeman youre free to believe that, but its clearly not christianity. How do you explain these verses then?
"The word was with God, and the Word was God...and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us".
How was the Word with God, and it was God if God is a simple unity. How did the Word God become flesh? Believe what you want but to pretend Christianity doesn't teach that is silly.

That explanation has already been provided in painstaking detail in this thread.

https://vigilantcitizenforums.com/threads/some-simple-questions-about-the-trinity-that-no-christian-seems-to-be-able-to-answer.10409/post-523459

In a nutshell, The Word OF God, whether that word be delivered by thought/vision, verbally, in writing, or in the flesh-and-blood example of Jesus+Christ, The Word of God is the TRUTH.

When Israel and the rest of mankind stopped listening to Father, He sent His Prophets to verbally warn them. When we stopped listening to the Prophets, He had them record His Truth in writing, so those with a genuine interest in the Truth could read it. And when people still paid no attention to any of His Prophets (other than to curse, beat and stone them), God sent His Firstborn Son (Christ) to be THE flesh-and-blood Example of how each of us need to be.

Yes, we need to follow Christ's Example and BE disciplined and obedient to God, like Christ is, at all times. THAT is the core teaching of Christ, found throughout the Gospel accounts.

Unfortunately, that is NOT what "Christianity" teaches; the organized religion that calls itself "Christianity" (all denominations) instead teaches people not to believe or obey Christ nor Christ's God. This thread is proof of that fact, because not one single so-called Christian has even taken the time to reflect on the 4 questions in the OP, which should immediately tell them they aren't following Christ's Example.

The mental gymnastics required for someone to believe that 3=1 and 1=3 and that a father is co-equal with his own son is without description it's so irrational.

God has given us human families, with human dads and human sons, so that we can understand the basic concept of family, but somehow people believe God divided Himself into 3 parts that aren't really three parts, but are three parts, but are also one part, but not just one part?

Do you really not understand how silly that sounds (and how silly it is)?

The Word of God (Truth) has always been with God (NOT Lucifer/Satan), and always will be with God. God doesn't need to be multiple individuals, or multiple personalities that talk to themselves, or a "trinity" or anything other than THE ONE TRUE GOD for the Truth to be with Him; it's been with Him since the beginning, even before God created Christ.

And no one, including me, has said that "Christianity" doesn't teach the "trinity"; it obviously does. Christ on the other hand, NEVER taught the "trinity", nor did any of the Prophets before Christ came in the body/flesh of Jesus, nor did any of the disciples afterward.