Thread dedicated to the Holy Virgin Mary, Mother of God, Queen of Heaven.

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well first of all Mary was around 14 years old:
“The apocryphal writings to which we referred in the last paragraph state that Mary remained in the Temple after her presentation in order to be educated with other Jewish children. There she enjoyed ecstatic visions and daily visits of the holy angels.

When she was fourteen, the high priest wished to send her home for marriage. Mary reminded him of her vow of virginity, and in his embarrassment the high priest consulted the Lord. Then he called all the young men of the family of David, and promised Mary in marriage to him whose rod should sprout and become the resting place of the Holy Ghost in form of a dove. It was Joseph who was privileged in this extraordinary way.

We have already seen that St. Gregory of Nyssa, St. Germanus of Constantinople, and pseudo-Gregory Nazianzen seem to adopt these legends. Besides, the emperor Justinian allowed a basilica to be built on the platform of the former Temple in memory of Our Lady's stay in the sanctuary; the church was called the New St. Mary's so as to distinguish it from the Church of the Nativity. It seems to be the modern mosque el-Aksa. [47]

On the other hand, the Church is silent as to Mary's stay in the Temple. St. Ambrose [48], describing Mary's life before the Annunciation, supposes expressly that she lived in the house of her parents. All the descriptions of the Jewish Temple which can claim any scientific value leave us in ignorance as to any localities in which young girls might have been educated. Joas's stay in the Temple till the age of seven does not favour the supposition that young girls were educated within the sacred precincts; for Joas was king, and was forced by circumstances to remain in the Temple (cf. 2 Kings 11:3). What 2 Maccabees 3:19, says about "the virgins also that were shut up" does not show that any of them were kept in the Temple buildings. If the prophetess Anna is said (Luke 2:37) not to have "departed from the temple, by fastings and prayer serving night and day", we do not suppose that she actually lived in one of the temple rooms. [49] As the house of Joachim and Anna was not far distant from the Temple, we may suppose that the holy child Mary was often allowed to visit the sacred buildings in order to satisfy her devotion.

Jewish maidens were considered marriageable at the age of twelve years and six months, though the actual age of the bride varied with circumstances. The marriage was preceded by the betrothal, after which the bride legally belonged to the bridegroom, though she did not live with him till about a year later, when the marriage used to be celebrated. All this agrees well with the language of the Evangelists. St. Luke (1:27) calls Mary "a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph"; St. Matthew (1:18) says, "when as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child, of the Holy Ghost". As we know of no brother of Mary, we must suppose that she was an heiress, and was obliged by the law of Numbers 36:6 to marry a member of her tribe. The Law itself prohibited marriage within certain degrees of relationship, so that the marriage of even an heiress was left more or less to choice.

According to Jewish custom, the union between Joseph and Mary had to be arranged by the parents of St. Joseph. One might ask why Mary consented to her betrothal, though she was bound by her vow of virginity. As she had obeyed God's inspiration in making her vow, so she obeyed God's inspiration in becoming the affianced bride of Joseph. Besides, it would have been singular among the Jews to refuse betrothal or marriage; for all the Jewish maidens aspired after marriage as the accomplishment of a natural duty. Mary trusted the Divine guidance implicitly, and thus was certain that her vow would be kept even in her married state.”

secondly concerning Joseph’s age:https://catholicstraightanswers.com/old-saint-joseph-jesus-born/

Thirdly: there is one HUUUGE thing that you aren’t considering, let me give you a hint it’s in Mary’s title, The Holy Virgin Mary. Mary was and is a Virgin.

lastly: the perception of the time is that when a girl was nearly thirteen she become a woman due to her getting her period. Although that seems very icky to me as a modern man at least they had what they believed to be a valid reason. I don’t see any reason in marrying a nine year old.
Your opinion doesn't matter. The fact is, young marriage was a normal practice in the premodern world, particularly in hotter desert climates, when girls attain menarche at earlier ages than girls living in colder regions.

It is fact that the age of consent in the various regions of the United States before the 20th century was typically 10 or 12, and as high as 14 in some states, or as low as 7 or 8 in others.

It is fact that Medieval Europe, children were married between the ages of 10 and 12, or even younger, and their marriages consummated at puberty.

So all these various peoples, who do not conform to your 21st century standards, you must declare Satanic too.


“Traditionally, across the globe, the age of consent for sexual union was a matter for the family to decide, or a tribal custom. In most cases, this coincided with signs of puberty, menstruation for a woman and pubic hair for a man.

Sir Edward Coke in 17th century England ‘made it clear that the marriage of girls under 12 was normal, and the age at which a girl who was a wife was eligible for a dower from her husband’s estate was 9. The American colonies followed the English tradition, and the law was more of a guide. For example Mary Hathaway of Virginia, was only 9 when she was married to William Williams.

Portugal, Spain, Denmark and the Swiss canons, initially set the age of consent at 10-12 years and then raised it to between 13 and 16 years in the second half of the 19th century. Historically, the English common law set the age of consent to range from 10- 12. In the United States, by the 1880s, most states set the age of consent at 10-12, and in one state Delaware, the age of consent was only 7.

Social and resulting legal attitudes toward the appropriate age of consent have drifted upwards in modern times. For example while ages from 10 to 13 were typically acceptable in Western countries during the mid-19the century, the end of the 19th century and beginning of the 20th century were marked by changing.

I believe that a lot of our current mores come from reluctance to let our children mature mentally as quickly as our bodies do. Keep in mind that not all societies share Western mores. And to my surprise, until the latter part of the 19th Century, Children in the Western nations were engaged and married at a much earlier age. The trend to give children more time to mature is relatively new.

In his book, The Emphatic civilization, (Penguin, NY, 200) Jeremy Rifkin points out that the concept of adolescence only emerged during the last decade of the nineteenth century and the first three decades of the twentieth century. Society started to think of childhood as extending beyond puberty, into the later teenage years. Before that, children were considered to graduate into adulthood with the onset of puberty.”

Source: What’s Wrong in America: A Look at Troublesome Issues in Our Country By Arthur Siccan



You must also accept that most Bible scholars accept that the age of Mary (may God be pleased with her) was 12, and that of Joseph was 80 or 90. It is no use quoting a singular source, that contradicts the swathes of other evidence. Both the "History of Joseph the Carpenter" and the Infancy Gospel of James quote Mary as being twelve years of age, the latter of which was accepted as being valid by the early Church fathers.


“…His eldest son was James, surnamed Oblias—that he begat him when he was about forty years old: after him he had another son named Jose, then Simeon and Judas, and then his two daughters Mary and Salome: after his wife’s death he continued many years a widower, and about fourscore years old [eighty] married Mary. Besides Epiphanius, several other of the Greek fathers have given into this same opinion, viz. Hilary, Chrysostome, Cyrill, Euthyymius, Theophylact, Cecumenius, and generally, as bishop Peaterson says: ‘all Latin fathers till Ambrose, and the Greeks afterward; from which it is very evident that the account of Joseph’s age and family, which is in the Gospel of the Birth Mary, and the Protevangelion of James, met with very general credit among ancient Christians.”

“I might, add here, that the learned annalist cardinal Baronius, in his surprising apologies for the Virgin Mary, (…) cites many of the fathers as giving credit to its accounts, and particularly as to that of her being brought at three years of age to the temple, and devoted to its service, (Evang. Mar. c. 4. 6. Protevang. Jacob. C. 7.) and that she continued there eleven years. He says it is testified by Euodius, Gregory Nyssene, Damascene, Germanus bishop of Constantinople, Andreas Cretensis, George Bishop of Nicomedia, and others. See Apparat. Ad Annal. No. 48. And Casaubon’s reflections upon this Exercit. 1. Contr. Baron. Ad eund. Numer.”

Source: A new and full method of settling the canonical authority of the New Testament. To which is subjoined A Vindication of the Former Part of St. Matthew’s Gospel from Mr. Whiston’s Charge of Dislocations, Reverend Jeremiah Jones, Vol. 2, pg. 116


As is written in the first paragraph, these prominent Church fathers accepted these reports as being valid:
1. Epiphanius (310 – 403AD)
2. Hilary (Hilarius) of Poitiers (300 – 368AD)
3. John Chrysostom (Born between 344 and 349 – Died 407 AD)
4. Cyril of Alexandria (376 – 444 AD)
5. Saint Euthymius the Great (377 – 473 AD)
6. Theophylact of Ohrid (also known as Theophylact of Bulgaria) (1055 – 1107 AD)
7. Cecumenius
8. Eusebius (263 – 339 AD)


Thus, to marry children at these ages, was nothing less than the norm of the premodern peoples, and if you will condemn the Prophet of God, peace and blessings of God be upon him, for it, then you must condemn all these too, including reports from your own sources.
 

SnowFall

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Your opinion doesn't matter. The fact is, young marriage was a normal practice in the premodern world, particularly in hotter desert climates, when girls attain menarche at earlier ages than girls living in colder regions.

It is fact that the age of consent in the various regions of the United States before the 20th century was typically 10 or 12, and as high as 14 in some states, or as low as 7 or 8 in others.

It is fact that Medieval Europe, children were married between the ages of 10 and 12, or even younger, and their marriages consummated at puberty.

So all these various peoples, who do not conform to your 21st century standards, you must declare Satanic too.


“Traditionally, across the globe, the age of consent for sexual union was a matter for the family to decide, or a tribal custom. In most cases, this coincided with signs of puberty, menstruation for a woman and pubic hair for a man.

Sir Edward Coke in 17th century England ‘made it clear that the marriage of girls under 12 was normal, and the age at which a girl who was a wife was eligible for a dower from her husband’s estate was 9. The American colonies followed the English tradition, and the law was more of a guide. For example Mary Hathaway of Virginia, was only 9 when she was married to William Williams.

Portugal, Spain, Denmark and the Swiss canons, initially set the age of consent at 10-12 years and then raised it to between 13 and 16 years in the second half of the 19th century. Historically, the English common law set the age of consent to range from 10- 12. In the United States, by the 1880s, most states set the age of consent at 10-12, and in one state Delaware, the age of consent was only 7.

Social and resulting legal attitudes toward the appropriate age of consent have drifted upwards in modern times. For example while ages from 10 to 13 were typically acceptable in Western countries during the mid-19the century, the end of the 19th century and beginning of the 20th century were marked by changing.

I believe that a lot of our current mores come from reluctance to let our children mature mentally as quickly as our bodies do. Keep in mind that not all societies share Western mores. And to my surprise, until the latter part of the 19th Century, Children in the Western nations were engaged and married at a much earlier age. The trend to give children more time to mature is relatively new.

In his book, The Emphatic civilization, (Penguin, NY, 200) Jeremy Rifkin points out that the concept of adolescence only emerged during the last decade of the nineteenth century and the first three decades of the twentieth century. Society started to think of childhood as extending beyond puberty, into the later teenage years. Before that, children were considered to graduate into adulthood with the onset of puberty.”

Source: What’s Wrong in America: A Look at Troublesome Issues in Our Country By Arthur Siccan



You must also accept that most Bible scholars accept that the age of Mary (may God be pleased with her) was 12, and that of Joseph was 80 or 90. It is no use quoting a singular source, that contradicts the swathes of other evidence. Both the "History of Joseph the Carpenter" and the Infancy Gospel of James quote Mary as being twelve years of age, the latter of which was accepted as being valid by the early Church fathers.


“…His eldest son was James, surnamed Oblias—that he begat him when he was about forty years old: after him he had another son named Jose, then Simeon and Judas, and then his two daughters Mary and Salome: after his wife’s death he continued many years a widower, and about fourscore years old [eighty] married Mary. Besides Epiphanius, several other of the Greek fathers have given into this same opinion, viz. Hilary, Chrysostome, Cyrill, Euthyymius, Theophylact, Cecumenius, and generally, as bishop Peaterson says: ‘all Latin fathers till Ambrose, and the Greeks afterward; from which it is very evident that the account of Joseph’s age and family, which is in the Gospel of the Birth Mary, and the Protevangelion of James, met with very general credit among ancient Christians.”

“I might, add here, that the learned annalist cardinal Baronius, in his surprising apologies for the Virgin Mary, (…) cites many of the fathers as giving credit to its accounts, and particularly as to that of her being brought at three years of age to the temple, and devoted to its service, (Evang. Mar. c. 4. 6. Protevang. Jacob. C. 7.) and that she continued there eleven years. He says it is testified by Euodius, Gregory Nyssene, Damascene, Germanus bishop of Constantinople, Andreas Cretensis, George Bishop of Nicomedia, and others. See Apparat. Ad Annal. No. 48. And Casaubon’s reflections upon this Exercit. 1. Contr. Baron. Ad eund. Numer.”

Source: A new and full method of settling the canonical authority of the New Testament. To which is subjoined A Vindication of the Former Part of St. Matthew’s Gospel from Mr. Whiston’s Charge of Dislocations, Reverend Jeremiah Jones, Vol. 2, pg. 116


As is written in the first paragraph, these prominent Church fathers accepted these reports as being valid:
1. Epiphanius (310 – 403AD)
2. Hilary (Hilarius) of Poitiers (300 – 368AD)
3. John Chrysostom (Born between 344 and 349 – Died 407 AD)
4. Cyril of Alexandria (376 – 444 AD)
5. Saint Euthymius the Great (377 – 473 AD)
6. Theophylact of Ohrid (also known as Theophylact of Bulgaria) (1055 – 1107 AD)
7. Cecumenius
8. Eusebius (263 – 339 AD)


Thus, to marry children at these ages, was nothing less than the norm of large parts of the premodern world, and if you will condemn the Prophet of God peace and blessings of God be upon him, for it, then you must condemn all these too.
Once again, Mary was 14, but regardless, the reason they married girls at nearly 13 was because of them getting periods. With their reasoning being they can be mothers and thus women.

plus Mary was and is a Virgin, she stayed that way even up to her assumption into heaven.

I don’t see the same thing with marrying a 6 year old.
 
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Once again, Mary was 14,
Right, so you will ignore all the Church fathers and Bible scholars from your own sources who say that it was twelve.

I don’t see the same thing with marrying a 6 year old.
The marriage of the Prophet, peace and blessings of God be upon him, and Aisha, may Allah be pleased with her, was formalised when she was aged 6, and consummated at age 9, after she had attained maturity (as signified by the menarche and the associated signs of puberty). There is a difference between these two things, if you will pay attention. If you will read the evidence I have posted, you will see this was the norm, but I will add more just in case.

“In Medieval and early modern European societies, the age of marriage remained low, with documented cases of brides as young as seven years, although marriages were typically not consummated until the girl reached puberty (Bullough 2004). Shakespeare’s Juliet was just 13, and there is no hint in the play that this was considered to be exceptional. The situation was similar on the other side of the Atlantic; Bullough reports the case in 1689 of a nine-year-old bride in Virginia. At the start of the nineteenth century in England, it was legal to have s** with a 10 year-old girl.”

Source: 'Internet Child P**nography: Causes, Investigation, and Prevention', Richard Wortley and Stephen Smallbon, pg 10
 
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Tidal

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When the disciples asked Jesus how to pray, why didn't he say "pray to Mary"?

"..one of his disciples said to him, “Lord, teach us to pray.."
He said to them, “When you pray, say:
“‘Father, hallowed be your name, your kingdom come.
Give us each day our daily bread.
Forgive us our sins,
for we also forgive everyone who sins against us.
And lead us not into temptation.’ (Luke 11:1-4)
 

Tidal

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..Mary was and is a Virgin, she stayed that way even up to her assumption into heaven.

Where did Mary's other children come from?
"And when he was come into his own country, he taught them in their synagogue, insomuch that they were astonished, and said, Whence hath this man this wisdom, and these mighty works?
Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?
And his sisters, are they not all with us?" (Matt 13:54-56)
 

SnowFall

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Messages
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Right, so you will ignore all the Church fathers and Bible scholars from your own sources who say that it was twelve.



The marriage of the Prophet, peace and blessings of God be upon him, and Aisha, may Allah be pleased with her, was formalised when she was aged 6, and consummated at age 9, after she had attained maturity (as signified by the menarche and the associated signs of puberty). There is a difference between these two things, if you will pay attention. If you will read the evidence I have posted, you will see this was the norm, but I will add more just in case.

“In Medieval and early modern European societies, the age of marriage remained low, with documented cases of brides as young as seven years, although marriages were typically not consummated until the girl reached puberty (Bullough 2004). Shakespeare’s Juliet was just 13, and there is no hint in the play that this was considered to be exceptional. The situation was similar on the other side of the Atlantic; Bullough reports the case in 1689 of a nine-year-old bride in Virginia. At the start of the nineteenth century in England, it was legal to have s** with a 10 year-old girl.”

Source: 'Internet Child P**nography: Causes, Investigation, and Prevention', Richard Wortley and Stephen Smallbon, pg 10
1. That is what the church fathers say…

2. utter nonsense, I doubt a nine year old would have a period

3. And it doesn’t apply to the Holy Virgin anyway since her and Joseph didn’t consummate the marriage.
 

SnowFall

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Joined
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Messages
798
When the disciples asked Jesus how to pray, why didn't he say "pray to Mary"?

"..one of his disciples said to him, “Lord, teach us to pray.."
He said to them, “When you pray, say:
“‘Father, hallowed be your name, your kingdom come.
Give us each day our daily bread.
Forgive us our sins,
for we also forgive everyone who sins against us.
And lead us not into temptation.’ (Luke 11:1-4)
Yes thats how you pray to God!
And you can pray to the Holy Virgin for intercession.
 

SnowFall

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Joined
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Messages
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Where did Mary's other children come from?
"And when he was come into his own country, he taught them in their synagogue, insomuch that they were astonished, and said, Whence hath this man this wisdom, and these mighty works?
Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?
And his sisters, are they not all with us?" (Matt 13:54-56)
Mary was a Virgin all her life. Jesus’s brothers were his spiritual brothers not his literal brothers https://www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/jesus-had-brothers
If Christ had brothers why would he give our Lady to John the evangelist?
Also Catholics are called the children of Mary and brothers and sisters of Christ.
Remember Mary wasn’t an ordinary woman, she had no sin.
 

Daze

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Your opinion doesn't matter. The fact is, young marriage was a normal practice in the premodern world, particularly in hotter desert climates, when girls attain menarche at earlier ages than girls living in colder regions.

It is fact that the age of consent in the various regions of the United States before the 20th century was typically 10 or 12, and as high as 14 in some states, or as low as 7 or 8 in others.

It is fact that Medieval Europe, children were married between the ages of 10 and 12, or even younger, and their marriages consummated at puberty.

So all these various peoples, who do not conform to your 21st century standards, you must declare Satanic too.


“Traditionally, across the globe, the age of consent for sexual union was a matter for the family to decide, or a tribal custom. In most cases, this coincided with signs of puberty, menstruation for a woman and pubic hair for a man.

Sir Edward Coke in 17th century England ‘made it clear that the marriage of girls under 12 was normal, and the age at which a girl who was a wife was eligible for a dower from her husband’s estate was 9. The American colonies followed the English tradition, and the law was more of a guide. For example Mary Hathaway of Virginia, was only 9 when she was married to William Williams.

Portugal, Spain, Denmark and the Swiss canons, initially set the age of consent at 10-12 years and then raised it to between 13 and 16 years in the second half of the 19th century. Historically, the English common law set the age of consent to range from 10- 12. In the United States, by the 1880s, most states set the age of consent at 10-12, and in one state Delaware, the age of consent was only 7.

Social and resulting legal attitudes toward the appropriate age of consent have drifted upwards in modern times. For example while ages from 10 to 13 were typically acceptable in Western countries during the mid-19the century, the end of the 19th century and beginning of the 20th century were marked by changing.

I believe that a lot of our current mores come from reluctance to let our children mature mentally as quickly as our bodies do. Keep in mind that not all societies share Western mores. And to my surprise, until the latter part of the 19th Century, Children in the Western nations were engaged and married at a much earlier age. The trend to give children more time to mature is relatively new.

In his book, The Emphatic civilization, (Penguin, NY, 200) Jeremy Rifkin points out that the concept of adolescence only emerged during the last decade of the nineteenth century and the first three decades of the twentieth century. Society started to think of childhood as extending beyond puberty, into the later teenage years. Before that, children were considered to graduate into adulthood with the onset of puberty.”

Source: What’s Wrong in America: A Look at Troublesome Issues in Our Country By Arthur Siccan



You must also accept that most Bible scholars accept that the age of Mary (may God be pleased with her) was 12, and that of Joseph was 80 or 90. It is no use quoting a singular source, that contradicts the swathes of other evidence. Both the "History of Joseph the Carpenter" and the Infancy Gospel of James quote Mary as being twelve years of age, the latter of which was accepted as being valid by the early Church fathers.


“…His eldest son was James, surnamed Oblias—that he begat him when he was about forty years old: after him he had another son named Jose, then Simeon and Judas, and then his two daughters Mary and Salome: after his wife’s death he continued many years a widower, and about fourscore years old [eighty] married Mary. Besides Epiphanius, several other of the Greek fathers have given into this same opinion, viz. Hilary, Chrysostome, Cyrill, Euthyymius, Theophylact, Cecumenius, and generally, as bishop Peaterson says: ‘all Latin fathers till Ambrose, and the Greeks afterward; from which it is very evident that the account of Joseph’s age and family, which is in the Gospel of the Birth Mary, and the Protevangelion of James, met with very general credit among ancient Christians.”

“I might, add here, that the learned annalist cardinal Baronius, in his surprising apologies for the Virgin Mary, (…) cites many of the fathers as giving credit to its accounts, and particularly as to that of her being brought at three years of age to the temple, and devoted to its service, (Evang. Mar. c. 4. 6. Protevang. Jacob. C. 7.) and that she continued there eleven years. He says it is testified by Euodius, Gregory Nyssene, Damascene, Germanus bishop of Constantinople, Andreas Cretensis, George Bishop of Nicomedia, and others. See Apparat. Ad Annal. No. 48. And Casaubon’s reflections upon this Exercit. 1. Contr. Baron. Ad eund. Numer.”

Source: A new and full method of settling the canonical authority of the New Testament. To which is subjoined A Vindication of the Former Part of St. Matthew’s Gospel from Mr. Whiston’s Charge of Dislocations, Reverend Jeremiah Jones, Vol. 2, pg. 116


As is written in the first paragraph, these prominent Church fathers accepted these reports as being valid:
1. Epiphanius (310 – 403AD)
2. Hilary (Hilarius) of Poitiers (300 – 368AD)
3. John Chrysostom (Born between 344 and 349 – Died 407 AD)
4. Cyril of Alexandria (376 – 444 AD)
5. Saint Euthymius the Great (377 – 473 AD)
6. Theophylact of Ohrid (also known as Theophylact of Bulgaria) (1055 – 1107 AD)
7. Cecumenius
8. Eusebius (263 – 339 AD)


Thus, to marry children at these ages, was nothing less than the norm of the premodern peoples, and if you will condemn the Prophet of God, peace and blessings of God be upon him, for it, then you must condemn all these too, including reports from your own sources.
The fingers went into the ears a long time ago. They only hear what they want to. For them to acknowledge your points makes them open hypocrites.. so truth be damned.

The trend to give children more time to mature is relatively new.
This is an interesting point. When i was a child (in the 80's, 90's) 18 was the year to wait for, while i had to deal with urges long before then.

Do people ever wonder why the recommended age today is 18 when it was never this high throughout history?
I'm kidding, we know people today question nothing.

Seems satanic really to put marriage off for so long as the hormones kinda take over at puberty. It really encourages fornication. Which seems to be the motive. Add in sex ed being taught in kindergarten and social mixing and you got a time bomb destined to go off.
 
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The fingers went into the ears a long time ago. They only hear what they want to. For them to acknowledge your points makes them open hypocrites.. so truth be damned.



This is an interesting point. When i was a child (in the 80's, 90's) 18 was the year to wait for, while i had to deal with urges long before then.

Do people ever wonder why the recommended age today is 18 when it was never this high throughout history?
I'm kidding, we know people today question nothing.

Seems satanic really to put marriage off for so long as the hormones kinda take over at puberty. It really encourages fornication. Which seems to be the motive. Add in sex ed being taught in kindergarten and social mixing and you got a time bomb destined to go off.
"If you want to destroy any civilization without war, make adultery or nudity common in the young generation."
Salahuddin al Ayyubi, Liberator of Jerusalem
 

SnowFall

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The fingers went into the ears a long time ago. They only hear what they want to. For them to acknowledge your points makes them open hypocrites.. so truth be damned.



This is an interesting point. When i was a child (in the 80's, 90's) 18 was the year to wait for, while i had to deal with urges long before then.

Do people ever wonder why the recommended age today is 18 when it was never this high throughout history?
I'm kidding, we know people today question nothing.

Seems satanic really to put marriage off for so long as the hormones kinda take over at puberty. It really encourages fornication. Which seems to be the motive. Add in sex ed being taught in kindergarten and social mixing and you got a time bomb destined to go off.
I acknowledged his points and showed how they were wrong, but I guess you won’t open your eyes and look will ya?
 

SnowFall

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"If you want to destroy any civilization without war, make adultery or nudity common in the young generation."
Salahuddin al Ayyubi, Liberator of Jerusalem
As St. Louis De Montfort says in his book true devotion to Mary: “Being the sure means and the straight and immaculate way to go to Jesus Christ, and to find Him perfectly, it is by her that the holy souls, who are to shine forth especially in sanctity, have to find our Lord. He who shall find Mary shall find life; that is, Jesus Christ, who is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. But no one can find Mary who does not seek her; and no one can seek her, who does not know her: for we cannot seek or desire an unknown object. It is necessary, then, for the greater knowledge and glory of the Most Holy Trinity, that Mary should be more known than ever. § 6. Mary must shine forth more than ever in mercy, in might, and in grace, in these latter times: in mercy, to bring back and lovingly receive the poor strayed sinners who shall be converted and shall return to the Catholic Church; in might, against the enemies of God, idolaters, schismatics, Mahometans (Muslims), Jews, and souls hardened in impiety, who shall rise in terrible revolt against God to seduce all those who shall be contrary to them, and to make them fall by promises and threats; and, finally, she must shine forth in grace, in order to animate and sustain the valiant soldiers and faithful servants of Jesus Christ, who shall do battle for His interests.”
 

SnowFall

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I don’t believe he did but the church fathers did and there’s a prayer to Mary going back to the early church.

there’s even a prayer to Joseph that goes back 2000 years
 

Daze

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I acknowledged his points and showed how they were wrong, but I guess you won’t open your eyes and look will ya?
As Pescatarian pointed out, you follow your own opinion ignoring what your own scholars say. I mean our convo is pointless as I like the rest of the world, am not interested in your opinion.

You remind me of the Christians who reject the old testament every time a verse is quoted that they don't like.
You take whatever you like from the religion and ignore whatever is inconvenient to you. Its very much a cherry picking faith, while those who want to steal, do so because "thou shall not steal" is just.. inconvenient for them.
 

SnowFall

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As Pescatarian pointed out, you follow your own opinion ignoring what your own scholars say. I mean our convo is pointless as I like the rest of the world, am not interested in your opinion.

You remind me of the Christians who reject the old testament every time a verse is quoted that they don't like.
You take whatever you like from the religion and ignore whatever is inconvenient to you. Its very much a cherry picking faith, while those who want to steal, do so because "thou shall not steal" is just.. inconvenient for them.
I literally pasted something to the guy that comes from church teaching, not my opinions.

it seems you don’t want to hear what I have to say so you just completely ignore or make up what it is that I said.

and I’d advise you that people in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones, since you want to bring up worldly Christians.
It’s very typical that you guys use the Christians in name only types in your examples but know you can’t use real Christian because your point falls flat.
 

Daze

Superstar
Joined
Jun 28, 2020
Messages
6,840
I literally pasted something to the guy that comes from church teaching, not my opinions.

it seems you don’t want to hear what I have to say so you just completely ignore or make up what it is that I said.

and I’d advise you that people in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones, since you want to bring up worldly Christians.
It’s very typical that you guys use the Christians in name only types in your examples but know you can’t use real Christian because your point falls flat.
I don't think you know what the rock and glass house parable means.

A Christian is one who takes there religion from the Bible. All 45,000 sects of them. While some "Christians" like Tidal reject your Christianity. Its very much a "I"m correct, your not" kinda thing while both source the same book.

While i often give Jesus worshipers a hard time you seem to be worse as you worship Mary as well.

When i converted from Christinaity to Islam i liked the fact that i didn't need Jesus to reach God, there's no middleman in Islam. While you actually add more parties such as Mary. There's not much difference between you and the HIndus multitude of gods, is there?
 

SnowFall

Veteran
Joined
Dec 10, 2018
Messages
798
I don't think you know what the rock and glass house parable means.

A Christian is one who takes there religion from the Bible. All 45,000 sects of them. While some "Christians" like Tidal reject your Christianity. Its very much a "I"m correct, your not" kinda thing while both source the same book.

While i often give Jesus worshipers a hard time you seem to be worse as you worship Mary as well.

When i converted from Christinaity to Islam i liked the fact that i didn't need Jesus to reach God, there's no middleman in Islam. While you actually add more parties such as Mary. There's not much difference between you and the HIndus multitude of gods, is there?
I know exactly what it means and I’m trying to explain to you, very very simply, that with every mention you make of bad Christians I can give you ten more of bad Muslims.

another thing I’ve explained to you repeatedly, but you don’t want to listen to, is that the 45,000 sects you talk about come from Protestantism not Catholicism.

protestants split from the Catholic faith and further disintegrated into thousands of sects, the one true faith, Catholicism, stayed solid.
(Also isn’t there multiple different types of Islam, Sunni etc and some try to kill the others?)

I know Catholicism is the true faith because it comes from Peter the Rock, he was the first Pope. Also through verified Marian apparitions, our lady herself has said it’s the Church of God.

and again I’ve also explained that Catholics don’t worship Mary, we venerate her. I’ve explained the differences in prayer to Mary and God.
But again you don’t want to hear because you are filled with the lies of the heretical cult known as Islam.
 

Daze

Superstar
Joined
Jun 28, 2020
Messages
6,840
No, you don't know as i gave no examples of "bad Christians". If you want to give examples of bad Muslims then do so. We both know there are more then a few out there.

The rock and glass house parable.. "don't throw rocks when you live in a glass house".. is alot like you attacking Islams prophet for having a young bride while your own Mary and Joseph is the exact same example.

In fact its a perfect example so its ironic how you try to reverse it.


As a Muslim i ask from none but God. None to intercede here. Its a direct connection. Why would i ask anything from Mary? What do you think the first commandment, "No gods but Me" means?

Is Mary alive? Can she hear and respond to you? How can the dead benefit you?

"Mother of god" is incredibly blasphemous.
 
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