Trump Presenting Peace Plan To Israeli Leaders

Lisa

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That is great to hear his evaluation, thanks. I've felt this all along- there is no legitimacy in labeling Hamas or Hezbollah a terrorist organization when Israel has inflicted far more damage on their own in the region. The US and Israel calling anyone a terrorist is total hypocrisy.

Along with being terribly frustrating the dissonance from the Israeli/Zionist side is bewildering. Just like the UN statements on the "conflict", 95% or more of the world are critical of the treatment of the Palestinians. But the right-wing Israeli gov. and US CZ's truly don't get what the problem is. They are vampires, oppressors, torturers... yet God (or whatever force you call it) has blinded them from understanding how evil they are. They are sociopaths without normal human emotions. This quote from Kushner is a perfect example:



This is straight up trolling. It's becoming more apparent to me these people can't help themselves. It's not just some elaborate set of lies to obfuscate reality; these figures are ruled by death and cruelty. There's no other way to say it than they are satanically possessed. If you sat down with any normal human being, explaining the facts of the situation, they would say, "wow this doesn't sound fair." To add that these people claim to be "of the Book" and a symbol of the God of Peace... I don't know if there is a greater mockery of truth in the world today.
You guys totally see this the wrong way. It’s the Palestinians who are the terrorists there. If they would stop trying to take down Israel and looked to their own people and stopped hating Israel..I really think there could be peace there.
 

DesertRose

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1581189409164.png
Interesting Tweets by Zaid Hamid:
@ZaidZamanHamid
https://twitter.com/ZaidZamanHamid
Imagine...! Zionists waged two world wars,
killed 100 million people, destroyed Ottoman empire,
killed millions of their own to gain sympathy, infiltrated Christianity & created evangelical Christian Zionists,
hijacked USA -- all for one idea --- create the state of Israel !
The brief Chronology of an ongoing genocide.
1914. US Federal Reserve was created. USA hijacked.
1914. WW1 begins. 1916. Sykes-Picot agreement to divide Iraq, Syria, Palestine.
1917. Balfour declaration announcing plans for state of Israel.
1920. Treaty of Sevres....
1924. Ottoman Caliphate was abolished. Ottomon empire destroyed. Last major Muslim resistance to Israel removed.
1939. WW2 waged to kill Jews to create a reason for pushing Jews into Palestine.
1948. Israel was created....
1948. "Nakba"...the Palestinian genocide begins..
2020.... Trump's "deal of the century" is another Balfour declaration, Another Sykes-Picot agreement,
another "Nakba".... this "deal" will complete the annihilation of all Palestine for all times to come
.... Next.....expansion of Israel between Euphrates & Nile, down to Medina!!
1581189835282.png
 

Thunderian

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There was never a state called Palestine, ever. Historic Palestine is an ignorant myth.

In 1946, everyone — Jew and Arab — who lived in the region called Palestine was, by definition, a Palestinian.

Therefore, Palestinians haven’t lost an inch of land. Arab Palestinians just chose to not participate in the “Palestinian” state.
 

Kung Fu

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There was never a state called Palestine, ever. Historic Palestine is an ignorant myth.

In 1946, everyone — Jew and Arab — who lived in the region called Palestine was, by definition, a Palestinian.

Therefore, Palestinians haven’t lost an inch of land. Arab Palestinians just chose to not participate in the “Palestinian” state.
And white people wonder why people on the other side of the world still view the West as colonizers. Racists and colonizers claim "if there's no state than anyone can claim the land". And it's this type of bullshit spewed by certain groups of white people (Christian Zionists) which elicits the Natives of North America to still hold animosity towards white people, which is sad because not all white people are racist Zionists.
 

Red Sky at Morning

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Just catching up and looking into the debate on the subject above...

Last Friday, the frontrunner for the Republican presidential nomination, former speaker of the House Newt Gingrich, did something revolutionary. He told the truth about the Palestinians. In an interview with The Jewish Channel, Gingrich said that the Palestinians are an "invented" people, "who are in fact Arabs."

His statement about the Palestinians was entirely accurate. At the end of 1920, the "Palestinian people" was artificially carved out of the Arab population of "Greater Syria." "Greater Syria" included present-day Syria, Lebanon, Israel, the Palestinian Authority and Jordan. That is, the Palestinian people were invented 91 years ago. Moreover, as Gingrich noted, the term "Palestinian people" only became widely accepted after 1977.

As Daniel Pipes chronicled in a 1989 article on the subject in The Middle East Quarterly, the local Arabs in what became Israel opted for a local nationalistic "Palestinian" identity in part due to their sense that their brethren in Syria were not sufficiently committed to the eradication of Zionism.

Since Gingrich spoke out on Friday, his factually accurate statement has been under assault from three directions. First, it has been attacked by Palestinian apologists in the postmodernist camp. Speaking to CNN, Hussein Ibish from the American Task Force on Palestine argued that Gingrich's statement was an outrage because while he was right about the Palestinians being an artificial people, in Ibish's view, Israelis were just as artificial. That is, he equated the Palestinians' 91-year-old nationalism with the Jews' 3,500-year-old nationalism.

In his words, "To call the Palestinians ‘an invented people' in an obvious effort to undermine their national identity is outrageous, especially since there was no such thing as an ‘Israeli' before 1948."
Ibish's nonsense is easily dispatched by a simple reading of the Hebrew Bible. As anyone semi-literate in Hebrew recognizes, the Israelis were not created in 1948. Three thousand years ago, the Israelis were led by a king named David. The Israelis had an independent commonwealth in the Land of Israel, and their capital city was Jerusalem.
The fact that 500 years ago King James renamed the Israelis "Israelites" is irrelevant to the basic truth that there is nothing new or artificial about the Israeli people. And Zionism, the Jewish national liberation movement, did not arise in competition with Arab nationalism. Zionism has been a central feature of Jewish identity for 3,500 years.
THE SECOND line of attack against Gingrich denies the veracity of his claim. Palestinian luminaries like the PA's unelected Prime Minister Salam Fayyad told CNN, "The Palestinian people inhabited the land since the dawn of history."

Fayyad's historically unsubstantiated claim was further expounded on by Fatah Revolutionary Council member Dmitri Diliani in an interview with CNN. "The Palestinian people [are] descended from the Canaanite tribe of the Jebusites that inhabited the ancient site of Jerusalem as early as 3200 BCE," Diliani asserted,
The Land of Israel has the greatest density of archeological sites in the world. Judea, Samaria, the Galilee, the Negev, the Golan Heights and other areas of the country are packed with archeological evidence of the Jewish commonwealths. As for Jerusalem, literally every inch of the city holds physical proof of the Jewish people's historical claims to the city.

To date, no archeological or other evidence has been found linking the Palestinians to the city or the Jebusites.

From a US domestic political perspective, the third line of attack against Gingrich's factual statement has been the most significant. The attacks involve conservative Washington insiders, many of whom are outspoken supporters of Gingrich's principal rival for the Republican presidential nomination, former Massachusetts governor Mitt Romney.
To date, the attackers' most outspoken representative has been Washington Post blogger Jennifer Rubin. These insiders argue that although Gingrich spoke the truth, it was irresponsible and unstatesmanlike for him to have done so.

As Rubin put it on Monday, "Do conservatives really think it is a good idea for their nominee to reverse decades of US policy and deny there is a Palestinian national identity?" In their view, Gingrich is an irresponsible flamethrower because he is turning his back on a 30- year bipartisan consensus. That consensus is based on ignoring the fact that the Palestinians are an artificial people whose identity sprang not from any shared historical experience, but from opposition to Jewish nationalism.

The policy goal of the consensus is to establish an independent Palestinian state west of the Jordan River that will live at peace with Israel.

This policy was obsessively advanced throughout the 1990s until it failed completely in 2000, when Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat rejected then-prime minister Ehud Barak's and then US president Bill Clinton's offer of Palestinian statehood and began the Palestinian terror war against Israel.

BUT RATHER than acknowledge that the policy - and the embrace of Palestinian national identity at its heart - had failed, and consider other options, the US policy establishment in Washington clung to it for dear life. Republicans like Rubin's mentor, former deputy national security adviser Elliott Abrams, went on to support enthusiastically Israel's surrender of Gaza in 2005, and to push for Hamas participation in the 2006 Palestinian elections. That withdrawal and those elections catapulted the jihadist terror group to power.

The consensus that Gingrich rejected by telling the truth about the artificial nature of Palestinian nationalism was based on an attempt to square popular support for Israel with the elite's penchant for appeasement. On the one hand, due to overwhelming public support for a strong US alliance with Israel, most US policy-makers have not dared to abandon Israel as a US ally.

On the other hand, American policy-makers have been historically uncomfortable having to champion Israel to their anti-Israel European colleagues and to their Arab interlocutors who share the Palestinians' rejection of Israel's right to exist.

The policy of seeking to meld an anti-Israel Arab appeasement policy with a pro-Israel anti-appeasement policy was embraced by successive US administrations until it was summarily discarded by President Barack Obama three years ago. Obama replaced the two-headed policy with one of pure Arab appeasement.

Obama was able to justify his move because the two-pronged policy had failed. There was no peace between Israel and the Palestinians. The price of oil had skyrocketed, and US interests throughout the region were increasingly threatened.

For its part, Israel was far more vulnerable to terror and war than it had been in years. And its diplomatic isolation was acute and rising.
Unfortunately for both the US and Israel, Obama's break with the consensus has destabilized the region, endangered Israel and imperiled US interests to a far greater degree than they had been under the failed dual-track policy of his predecessors. Throughout the Arab world, Islamist forces are on the rise.

Iran is on the verge of becoming a nuclear power.

The US is no longer seen as a credible regional power as it pulls its forces out of Iraq without victory, hamstrings its forces in Afghanistan, dooming them to attrition and defeat, and abandons its allies in country after country.

The stark contrast between Obama's rejection of the failed consensus on the one hand and Gingrich's rejection of the failed consensus on the other hand indicates that Gingrich may well be the perfect foil for Obama.

Gingrich's willingness to state and defend the truth about the nature of the Palestinian conflict with Israel is the perfect response to Obama's disastrous speech "to the Muslim world" in Cairo in June 2009. It was in that speech that Obama officially abandoned the bipartisan consensus, abandoned Israel and the truth about Zionism and Jewish national rights, and embraced completely the lie of Palestinian nationalism and national rights.
Both Rubin and Abrams, as well as Romney, justified their attacks on Gingrich and their defense of the failed consensus by noting that no Israeli leaders were saying what Gingrich said. Rubin went so far as to allege that Gingrich's words of truth about the Palestinians hurt Israel.

This is of course absurd. What many Americans fail to recognize is that Israeli leaders are not as free to tell the truth about the nature of the conflict as the US is. Rather than look to Israel for leadership on this issue, American leaders would do well to view Israel as the equivalent of West Germany during the Cold War. With half of Berlin occupied by the Red Army and West Berlin serving as the tripwire for a Soviet invasion of Western Europe, West German leaders were not as free to tell the truth about the Soviet Union as American leaders were.
Today, with Jerusalem under constant political and terror threat, with all of Israel increasingly encircled by Islamist regimes, and with the Obama administration abandoning traditional US support for Israel, it is becoming less and less reasonable to expect Israel to take the rhetorical lead in telling important and difficult truths about the nature of its neighbors.

When Romney criticized Gingrich's statement as unhelpful to Israel, Gingrich replied, "I feel quite confident that an amazing number of Israelis found it nice to have an American tell the truth about the war they are in the middle of, and the casualties they are taking and the people around them who say, ‘They do not have a right to exist and we want to destroy them.'" And he is absolutely right. It was more than nice.

It was heartening.

Thirty years of pre-Obama American lying about the nature of the conflict in an attempt to balance support for Israel with appeasement of the Arabs did not make the US safer or the Middle East more peaceful. A return to that policy under a new Republican president will not be sufficient to restore stability and security to the region.

And the need for such a restoration is acute. Under Obama, the last three years of US abandonment of the truth about Israel for Palestinian lies has made the region less stable, Israel more vulnerable, the US less respected and US interests more threatened.
Gingrich's statement of truth was not an act of irresponsible flame throwing. It was the beginning of an antidote to Obama's abandonment of truth and reason in favor of lies and appeasement. And as such, it was not a cause for anger. It was a cause for hope.


caroline@carolineglick.com
 

Thunderian

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And white people wonder why people on the other side of the world still view the West as colonizers. Racists and colonizers claim "if there's no state than anyone can claim the land". And it's this type of bullshit spewed by certain groups of white people (Christian Zionists) which elicits the Natives of North America to still hold animosity towards white people, which is sad because not all white people are racist Zionists.
Do you think that all that land in the first panel was owned/farmed/whatever by the Arabs who eventually became the Palestinians? Even the land that was owned legally by Jews?
 

Kung Fu

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Do you think that all that land in the first panel was owned/farmed/whatever by the Arabs who eventually became the Palestinians? Even the land that was owned legally by Jews?
Of course not. But the majority of the people living there along with the land was owned by the Palestinians. Just because there was no official state, as recognized by the West, doesn't mean they weren't entitled to that land. Just because one little Jew (Rothschild) wanted a whole plot land for his devilish goals doesn't mean Israel is a legal state in which they could kick out all the other Palestinians in order for some Jews living in Brooklyn and Europe could move in.
 

Thunderian

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Of course not. But the majority of the people living there along with the land was owned by the Palestinians. Just because there was no official state, as recognized by the West, doesn't mean they weren't entitled to that land. Just because one little Jew (Rothschild) wanted a whole plot land for his devilish goals doesn't mean Israel is a legal state in which they could kick out all the other Palestinians in order for some Jews living in Brooklyn and Europe could move in.
My point is that Palestinian Arabs didn’t own all the land that is called Palestine in that map. Jews legally owned quite a bit of it. If there is no legal state, as you have pointed out, don’t you think that the land belongs to the people who own it?

Palestinians who are citizens of Israel own their land — they reside in the nation of Israel, but their land belongs to them. How is it that Jews who owned land in the ancient undeclared state of Palestine have less land rights, in your mind, than Palestinians living in Israel do today?
 

Awoken2

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This "owning land" shit is some kind of Zionist Jedi mind trick.

People can't own any land. People live and die in 70 odd years, the land doesn't. The earth owns you.

You don't even own your own house, you think you do but you don't. When you.pop your materialistic clogs somebody else will get to think they own your house.

All these Zionist shills who parade themselves here as genuine posters are trying to convince you that their Jewish OT armageddon has to happen because it was written in their book.

The threads that get the shit bumped out of them actually proving that Trump is an Israeli whore are more important than the scriptures that they constantly spew.

This forum is infested with people who don't have the ability to think for themselves. They mindlessly push their own indoctrination onto others.

..... hey Thunderian, I heard it on tbe grapevine that you got runner up in the 2019 ADL Top Propagandist Awards.... unlucky man....theres always next year eh?
 

Kung Fu

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My point is that Palestinian Arabs didn’t own all the land that is called Palestine in that map. Jews legally owned quite a bit of it. If there is no legal state, as you have pointed out, don’t you think that the land belongs to the people who own it?

Palestinians who are citizens of Israel own their land — they reside in the nation of Israel, but their land belongs to them. How is it that Jews who owned land in the ancient undeclared state of Palestine have less land rights, in your mind, than Palestinians living in Israel do today?
They owned very little. It wasn't until the late 1940s that the Jews "owned" almost all the land. It's easy to "own" quite a bit when you forcefully remove and cleanse the area of the natives. I think what you're trying to say is that if it wasn't a legal state by Western definition than whoever has the bigger guns owns the land. You don't have to hide just come out and say it.

They reside in Israel because the Jews forcefully removed the majority of them and forced the few remaining to live under their majority rule. The small percentage of Jews that owned land at the time isn't the problem. Stop with your strawman fallacy.

Everyone on here knows that the Jews were given the land as a result of WW2 but why did the Palestinians need to house the world's Jews when Germany, Britain, or the US could have provided them the land when it was them who created the issue in the first place?
 

Kung Fu

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..... hey Thunderian, I heard it on tbe grapevine that you got runner up in the 2019 ADL Top Propagandist Awards.... unlucky man....theres always next year eh?
Only Christian Zionist, Jews, and shills support the creation of Israel and what they're currently doing there. The majority of the world actually don't support Israel. It's just that Israel owns the largest superpower in the world, which is the US. As soon as Israel stops getting it's tax payer donations and veto US support they will crumble hard and fast.
 

Awoken2

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They owned very little. It wasn't until the late 1940s that the Jews "owned" almost all the land. It's easy to "own" quite a bit when you forcefully remove and cleanse the area of the natives. I think what you're trying to say is that if it wasn't a legal state by Western definition than whoever has the bigger guns owns the land. You don't have to hide just come out and say it.

They reside in Israel because the Jews forcefully removed the majority of them and forced the few remaining to live under their majority rule. The small percentage of Jews that owned land at the time isn't the problem. Stop with your strawman fallacy.

Everyone on here knows that the Jews were given the land as a result of WW2 but why did the Palestinians need to house the world's Jews when Germany, Britain, or the US could have provided them the land when it was them who created the issue in the first place?
As complicated as these Zionists try and make the issue it really is as simple and straightforward as you've put here.

And the reason why it has to be Jerusalem and nowhere else is again very simple, by my understanding anyway. OT bible prophecy says it has to be Jerusalem. It has to go by the book...their Jewish book.
 

TempestOfTempo

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The Holy land is the land of the Holy One of Israel.

In God's epic the antagonist and adversary is the god of this world who is the god of Islam.

So that's why there is no peace...


In His book the God of Israel promised to return a remant of His people to His land for His own Name's sake.

And the antagonist contest that... as he is very annoying.

Not unlike urself.
Yes you continue repeating these claims. But you are failing to take into account that the majority of the word observes the legal ramifications and precedent here, therefore rejecting your contentions.
 

TempestOfTempo

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It is not a fair and balanced deal, but it will make it possible for Israel to do what you believe they should be able to do, which apparently includes controlling water distribution, annexing the occupied territories and having military authority over Palestine. These are all things Israel needs to be able to do.

Newspeak. Up is down apparently in your world.

Without becoming detailed further with Moroccan politics, based on the article you presented. I would not consider Morocco to be a good example. They do not seem to have had the same degree of reverence for the area as a Holy site as some other areas. They do not even seem to be dominantly Muslim. They seem more like the African version of New York. This is the backstory from your first article about how a contact was created with Morocco.

  • That meeting was the result of a back channel established between Bourita and Netanyahu’s national security adviser, Meir Ben-Shabbat, with the help of businessman Yariv Elbaz.
  • Elbaz, a Moroccan Jew, is one of the main food retailers in Morocco and a close associate of Jared Kushner.
  • In May 2019, Elbaz met with Kushner in Morocco and took him and the entire White House “peace team” for a visit at the old Jewish cemetery in Casablanca.

So support is not surprising based on this information. This is not a real example of Muslim support in Morocco. Not that Palestine needs to be solely supported by the Muslim communities that do have more established religious considerations for the area. A lot of people can see that the only reason they need military authority over the area is that they never left the occupied territories.

And if that weren't enough. This is what your article from Reuters says about Morrocan support of the peace plan.

"Morocco ‘appreciates’ the new U.S. plan for peace between Israel and the Palestinians, its foreign ministry said in a statement on Wednesday, but added that “acceptance by the parties... is... fundamental to the implementation and sustainability of the plan.

Morocco is a close ally of the United States and added in the statement that it hopes for “a constructive peace process” offering “a realistic, applicable, equitable and lasting solution” to the dispute."

So who knows how they are clipping this quote together. Either way, it is saying both parties have to accept in order for this plan to work.

Basically, this is saying that Morocco is remaining neutral on stating a position encouraging or discouraging Palestine from accepting or declining the plan. I know you wish it said something along the lines of "Morocco made a statement the other day in favor of the plan presented by the Trump administration. They said, 'we have not ever seen such a good plan presented to Palestine. They would be silly not to take it." Unfortunately, it doesn't say anything close to this.

The statement from Morocco was basically a PC way of saying we don't want to piss off the people who might help us get sovereignty over Western Sahara, and we don't want to piss off the Muslims who are citizens of Morroco. Morocco just wants the area in western Sahara to be theirs.

Are you even reading these articles before you are posting them?
"Are you even reading these articles before you are posting them?"
Lets see if you receive an honest answer or if the Shill Game(tm) rolls on......
 

TempestOfTempo

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Plan Dalet eh? very interesting.....
 

TempestOfTempo

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Wow the faux-Christians at VC are mentally ill:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/315843374_Blockade_on_Gaza_Strip_A_Living_Hell_on_Earth
https://www.fidh.org/en/region/north-africa-middle-east/israel-palestine/joint-letter-on-israel-s-unlawful-closure-and-blockade-of-the-gaza
https://english.palinfo.com/news/2019/3/5/13-years-of-blockade-on-the-Gaza-Strip
Because I am neither a Zionist nor a Pre Mill Dispensationalist. I reject your interpretation of Prophecy as it didnt exist until the 1800's.



According to Pre Mill Pre Trib Dispensationalism, but as I said that ideology literally didnt exist as you believe it until the 1800's so since I dont think the entire History of the Church was incorrect on their Eschatology for thousands of years, I find it hard to believe that some dude in the 1800's got it all correct. That is literally what you and everyone who thinks like you actually believes, that billions of believers in Christ for over one thousand eight hundred years had no idea how to correctly interpret the Bible, but then one guy in the 1800's came along who magically knew it all and he is correct while everyone else is wrong.

The State that claimed the name Israel, created by literal AntiChrists who outright say they want a New World Order, that stands on that piece of land in the Middle East, isnt the Biblical Israel. That State, created by New World Order Antichrists, is literally a spite to Jesus Christ, as He specifically stated they are to remain desolate until they proclaim Him as Christ. That State has exactly zero to do with the Bible, and if it does the most we can say about it, is that it is the State that will usher in the AntiChrist himself, and yet we watch Christians freaking support it no matter what.

I personally am not to up on supporting the State that was created by literal AntiChrist, for the sole purpose of using it to bring about the New World Order, that if it has anything to do with the Bible is there only to be the place that the AntiChrist is going to conduct his business from to murder and kill Christians. Seems stupid to root for and support the State that Satan is supposedly going to be running, but hey that guy in 1800s really knew how to get his message out and the Synagogue of Satan loved how it so easily has allowed them to co opt Christianity, to get Christians to support Satan outright...

But hey to each their own on Eschatology, Ill just sit here and praise Jesus and preach the Gospel till the World Ends in whatever manner He chooses it to end when He comes back...
Your breakdown of the current state of Israel and its development being owed to scriptural deviance and misinterpretation is appreciated.
 

TempestOfTempo

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There was never a state called Palestine, ever. Historic Palestine is an ignorant myth.

In 1946, everyone — Jew and Arab — who lived in the region called Palestine was, by definition, a Palestinian.

Therefore, Palestinians haven’t lost an inch of land. Arab Palestinians just chose to not participate in the “Palestinian” state.
You have already floated this garbage.... in a thread specifically about the topic eh? You got shredded there but like others here have speculated, you likely get paid by the post so it all just one big dance of provocation to you.
 

Awoken2

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All these Zionist shills who parade themselves here as genuine posters are trying to convince you that their Jewish OT armageddon has to happen because it was written in their book.
Perfectly summed up here at the 9 minute mark by the late Bill Hicks

 

Thunderian

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It's easy to "own" quite a bit when you forcefully remove and cleanse the area of the natives.
I’m going to stop you right there. How did a minority of Jews do this to the existing Arab population — who presumably had villages and communities in place — with zero pushback from said Arabs?

In 1948, Jews were outnumbered at least 2-1 and were under arms embargo. But in your clueless history, they managed to ethnically cleanse huge areas of Palestine and take it for themselves. How?

Do you understand what I’m asking here? The premise that the Jews showed up one day with a bunch of guns and kicked all the Arabs off their land is based on nothing but the need of your side to have a reason to hate Jews. As long as you deny the actual history of the Jews and Palestinians who shared Palestine until 1948, you’re going to get this wrong.

So tell us, what really happened? Because your explanation that Jews swooped in and took every inch of Palestine away from it’s rightful owners is only acceptable historical narrative if you don’t care about facts.
 
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