Who do Muslims really worship?

[Kais_1]

I mentioned that there are 2 mothers involved in this thing that i am researching...

i see to have stumbled upon the following :

The Judgment of Solomon is a story from the Hebrew Bible in which King Solomon of Israel ruled between two women both claiming to be the mother of a child. Solomon revealed their true feelings and relationship to the child by suggesting to cut the baby in two, with each woman to receive half. With this strategy, he was able to discern the non-mother as the woman who entirely approved of this proposal, while the actual mother begged that the sword might be sheathed and the child committed to the care of her rival. Some consider this approach to justice an archetypal example of an impartial judge displaying wisdom in making a ruling.

1 Kings 3:16–28 recounts that two mothers living in the same house, each the mother of an infant son, came to Solomon. One of the babies had been smothered, and each claimed the remaining boy as her own. Calling for a sword, Solomon declared his judgment: the baby would be cut in two, each woman to receive half. One mother did not contest the ruling, declaring that if she could not have the baby then neither of them could, but the other begged Solomon, "Give the baby to her, just don't kill him!"
The king declared the second woman the true mother, as a mother would even give up her baby if that was necessary to save its life. This judgment became known throughout all of Israel and was considered an example of profound wisdom.

taken from

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judgment_of_Solomon

 

[Kais_1]

Can someone with a little knowledge please tell me what the symbolism of 2 mothers might mean?

i found the judgement of Solomon and that is about 2 mums...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judgment_of_Solomon

 

[Kais_1]

i found this

http://blog.nameastarlive.com/mothers-in-the-sky/

maybe something - maybe not...

 

[Kais_1]

After some searching i found the following :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pleiades

also known as the Seven Sisters and Messier 45,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orion's_Belt

Orion's Belt or the Belt of Orion, also known as the Three Kings or Three Sisters,[1] is an asterism in the constellation Orion. It consists of the three bright stars Alnitak, Alnilam and Mintaka.

i found a 3 and a 7 x 2 =74 my year of birth

still searching for 2.....i think its sirius, but i might be wrong

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

The Goddess remains the esoteric heartbeat of Islam
"The secret veiled power of the Divine Feminine is thus actively at work within Islam. Its esoteric forms uncompromisingly address the Divine with the masculine pronouns, but its esoteric qualities are all feminine. The Goddess remains the esoteric heartbeat of Islam. She is the beloved of Sufis, 'the ultimate image of God the Beloved — the breaker of all images in the shrine of the heart. She is the form leading beyond form, the obstacle to the Way and the Way...'"

“Light of the East

Iran and Saudi Arabia are not normally associated with the Divine Feminine ... we have to remember that militant Islam, like muscular Christianity, is only one side of the coin. The reverse is a dazzling mirror-image of Sophia who, in the persons of Fatima and Mary, upholds the Divine Feminine within Islam...

Sophia is the mystical companion, the soul within each body, seeking the Divine Beloved. It is she who causes the mystic to proclaim that he belongs to no race or direction of the earth: 'My place is the placeless, my trace is the traceless. 'Tis neither body, nor soul, for I belong to the Soul of the Beloved.'40 Certainly, the Divine Feminine is so marginalized in Islam, that one might be forgiven for believing it to be totally absent.

Both Mary and Fatima are reverenced within esoteric Islam, for they are both mothers of the Logos, the Word. Fatima inherits the role of Spenta Armaiti, within Shi'ism, for she is The Mother of a lineage of imams. She is seen as symbolic of the 'supracelestial earth.'41 She is considered to be the source of the imam's wisdom because she is lawh mahfuz or 'the hidden tablet; upon which God has written.'42 One of her titles in Ismaeli Shi'ism is Fatima Fatir, or Fatima the Creator, which recalls the Sophia Ergane of Proverbs.43

Ibn Arabi states that Universal nature (Tavi't al-kull) 'is the feminine or maternal side of the creative act. She is the"merciful 'breathing-out' of God" (Nafa ar-rahman).'44 We may compare Sophia as the Divine Sigh of Compassion in Sirach: 'I came forth from the mouth of the Most High.'45 This breathing out has the effect of manifesting Sophia to the world, yet Sophia is also the dwelling place of God for, as Ibn Arabi says: 'Where was your Lord before creating the Creation? He was in a Cloud; there was no space either above or below.'46

The nature of both the Black Goddess and Sophia are brought out in Islam. The exoteric fulminations about women, so similar to those found in Christianity and Judaism are, of course, negative polarizations of the devouring Goddess, yet this exists side by side with the positive image of the Ka'ba, Islam's Black Madonna. within Islam, the Divine Male and female principles are typified by the Pen and the Guarded tablet. The Pen is God writing upon the tabula rasa of the World-Soul, which preserves the veiled tradition of Sufism.47

The quotation which leads this chapter is the paradoxical foundation of Islam's veiling of the Divine Feminine. Ibn Arabi's exposition of this paradox may help us to understand it better. 'The Absolute manifested in the form of woman is an active agent because of exercising complete control over man's feminine principle, his soul. This causes man to become submissive and devoted to the Absolute as manifested in a woman. The Absolute is also passively receptive because, in as much as it appears in the form of a woman, it is under man's control and subject to his orders. Hence to contemplate the Absolute in woman is to see both aspects simultaneously, and such vision is more perfect than seeing it in all the forms in which it manifests itself. That is why woman is creative, not created. For both qualities, active and passive, belong to the Essence of the Creator, and both are manifested in woman.'48

This defination must be taken in its mystical context. For Moslems, the feminine principle is active, and the masculine principle is quiescent, in the manner of Christ within the womb of Mary. After proper preparation by spiritual practices, the masculine principle grows and is born. 'Once birth is given to the spirit, this (feminine) principle remains as Fatima, the Creative Feminine, the daughter of the Prophet, in a state of potentiality within the spirit reborn.'49

The secret veiled power of the Divine Feminine is thus actively at work within Islam. Its esoteric forms uncompromisingly address the Divine with the masculine pronouns, but its esoteric qualities are all feminine.

The Goddess remains the esoteric heartbeat of Islam. She is the beloved of Sufis, 'the ultimate image of God the Beloved — the breaker of all images in the shrine of the heart. She is the form leading beyond form, the obstacle to the Way and the Way...'50

Sophia is herself the 'interpreter of ardent desires.' The mystical vision of Ibn Arabi portrays the longing of all for Sophia: The aspirations and desires of all seekers are attached to her, yet she is essentially unknown to them; hence they all love her, yet none blames another for loving her. Similarly, every individual soul and the adherents of every religion seek salvation, but since they do not know it, they are also ignorant of the way that lead to it, though everyone believes he is on the right way. All strife between people of different religions and sects is about the way that leads to salvation, not about salvation itself.'51

But Sophia is also the reconciler of differences, for her love belongs to everyone: 'She manifests herself everywhere, like the sun; every person who holds her deems that she is with him in her essence, so that envy and jealousy are removed from their hearts.' 52"

Caitln Matthews, Sophia: Goddess of Wisdom,
The Aquarian Press, 1992, p. 179-90.

I suspect that the “signs and lying wonders” of the Book of Revelation will unite everyone under the worship of the divine feminine.

That the roots of this are embedded in both Catholicism and Islam should come as no surprise. The fact that the same message should be promoted through Freemasonry inspired Assassin's Creed came as no surprise either.

 

[Infinityloop]

I suspect that the “signs and lying wonders” of the Book of Revelation will unite everyone under the worship of the divine feminine.

That the roots of this are embedded in both Catholicism and Islam should come as no surprise. The fact that the same message should be promoted through Freemasonry inspired Assassin's Creed came as no surprise either.

Song Of Solomon........... (it's a book in the Old Testament that you've probably never read but it exists and you should read it and be amazed that it's central to understanding YHWH)

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Song Of Solomon........... (it's a book in the Old Testament that you've probably never read but it exists and you should read it and be amazed that it's central to understanding YHWH)

Au contraire, @Infinityloop - I have read it and there may be layers in it that even you have not yet contemplated ;-)

 

[AspiringSoul]

@Red Sky at Morning i know im being a prick here, but i just read what you wrote
I suspect that the “signs and lying wonders” of the Book of Revelation will unite everyone under the worship of the divine feminine.
That the roots of this are embedded in both Catholicism and Islam should come as no surprise. The fact that the same message should be promoted through Freemasonry inspired Assassin's Creed came as no surprise either.

1) the 'divine feminine' is the Causal power of God. The reason it is thought of as feminine has nothing to do with gender/sexuality. The feminine brings things into existence. This side, pertains to our metaphysical descent, creation itself. From unity to multiplicity.
The masculine makes things grow. The masculine is the Immanent aspect of God eg 'The Father' . It is the side pertaining to our metaphysical ascent and return to 'Unity'.
It is just the yin and yang aspect of God.

2) the 'signs and lying wonders' is from 2 Thessalonians, not Revelation. It is a reference to the 'beast of the earth' aka the false messiah/anti christ who rules the 'beast of the sea' (which is the political global system) and forces people to worship the 'image of the beast' (which is the collective thoughtform of the political/global system).
if the 'divine feminine' you referred to is 'the whore of babylon', the whore of babylon is destroyed by the antichrist. This is foretold in Zechariah 11.
The whore of babylon is a reference to the jewish elite (see zechariah 5, jeremiah 2/3). The false messiah being jewish will be handpicked by the jewish elite to rule them, but as God says in Zech 11, he will betray them, 'not care for them'.

is that why you then mentioned catholicism and then islam. Catholicism is not the whore of babylon. The jews are. The only n reason you think of catholicism is because martin luther, a deranged man from centuries ago said so.. but that guy also said the pope was the anti christ!!

IF you meant the 'image of the beast' to be the 'divine feminine'...since when did islam worship images/forms? we're more hardcore against that than any other religion. stop making shit up man.

3) Ezio: "You are... gods."Minerva: "No. Not gods. We simply came... before."
Assassins creed drew inspiration from the ismaili sect which in turn drew inspiration from ancient zoroastrian beliefs.
these semi-divine type beings that are not God...are the Amesha Spenta in zoroastrianism.
The 2 in question are actually called Haurvatat and Ameretat
in turn these 2 are then reflected as testing angels in the Quranic story of the origins of BLACK MAGIC...called Harut and Marut! not only that, in the Quran they are only mentioned when Solomon was exonerated and cleared of the accusations against him...which God attributes to demons working against him (eg like Asmodeos). so there's obv a big connection to these stories which links all the way to the zoroastrian Amesha Spenta.
the 'Templar order in AC being linked to freemasonry makes the connection to Solomon obvious which makes it easy for me to connect the dots to everything else.

how on earth did you see that and think of islam though? seriously. You're delusional beyond belief.

 

[Infinityloop]

Au contraire, @Infinityloop - I have read it and there may be layers in it that even you have not yet contemplated ;-)

I don't think you've grasped what I was saying.

The divine feminine is unavoidable wherever there is a personal relationship to God. Judaism expresses this in Song Of Solomon (which expresses the interaction between the divine feminine and masculine in a way which caters to both male and female Jews - and Christians by extension, even though Christianity is extremely sexually repressed)

In Christianity there is Mary who was literally chosen by God to give birth to God (if you're a trinitarian). In the Christian view, the Catholic conceptualization of a 'mother of God' is unavoidable and necessary to the Christian worldview.
In the Islamic view, Jesus was just a man and an important Prophet, so Mary is not regarded as divine.

Unless you reject Jesus as being a deity, then you cannot complain here but you Protestants (well, you're evangelical from what I've picked up) will always keep cutting your own heads off without realizing it, lol.

As for the Book of Revelation (correctly titled "The Apocalypse Of St John"), Orthodox Christianity considers it a dubious book and it has no influence on their beliefs. Whereas the Catholic Church are inspired by it's artistic expression, therefore they like to make murals and other kinds of beautiful artworks based off images from that book.
When it comes to Protestantism, Martin Luther and several of the other 'reformers' after him all strongly rejected the book. You might be interested to learn that the "Book of Revelation", as well as books like Ester and a few of the Epistles would have been scrapped and placed in the same category that Protestants call "apocrypha". You Protestants might not have merely reduced the Catholic canon from 73 books to 66 books but it could have been something like 60 or 58 books.
Anyway, from a Christian-history perspective, whenever I see references to the Book of Revelation treated as part of current politics and related religious matters, I know mostly not to take the person seriously.

Of course the Book of Revelation is a fun read and I've read a lot about it over the many years from many different perspectives (yes, when I was a Christian I used to think that it described current events too). But to take it as religious canon is a bit extreme, it's ultimately a piece of esoteric, occult, gnostic literature written in the late 1st century part of the same occultism as the "Gospel of John" and it's related parts.

 

[Infinityloop]

But then, considering the nature of Paul's writings and the fact that mainstream Christians believe that God was a man with a penis who was killed by capital punishment in 33AD, basically naked on the cross (more brutal than the kinds of depictions that I've seen in Easter festivals growing up, which are fairly tame enough for it to be a family event), I would find it unsurprisingly that Christians would be offended by the feminine and by a female aspect attributed to God. However a female aspect of God, in a Christian-centric worldview WOULD better convey a loving, forgiving, redeeming depiction of God - in comparison to the masculine, judgmental God of the Torah (again, within the Christian view, not Jewish).

However, I'd add, from an Islamic point of view, attributing gender objectively to God is both pathetic, absurd and worthy of ridicule. God created gender/sex, gender/sex is biological.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

@Red Sky at Morning i know im being a prick here, but i just read what you wrote
I suspect that the “signs and lying wonders” of the Book of Revelation will unite everyone under the worship of the divine feminine.
That the roots of this are embedded in both Catholicism and Islam should come as no surprise. The fact that the same message should be promoted through Freemasonry inspired Assassin's Creed came as no surprise either.

1) the 'divine feminine' is the Causal power of God. The reason it is thought of as feminine has nothing to do with gender/sexuality. The feminine brings things into existence. This side, pertains to our metaphysical descent, creation itself. From unity to multiplicity.
The masculine makes things grow. The masculine is the Immanent aspect of God eg 'The Father' . It is the side pertaining to our metaphysical ascent and return to 'Unity'.
It is just the yin and yang aspect of God.

2) the 'signs and lying wonders' is from 2 Thessalonians, not Revelation. It is a reference to the 'beast of the earth' aka the false messiah/anti christ who rules the 'beast of the sea' (which is the political global system) and forces people to worship the 'image of the beast' (which is the collective thoughtform of the political/global system).
if the 'divine feminine' you referred to is 'the whore of babylon', the whore of babylon is destroyed by the antichrist. This is foretold in Zechariah 11.
The whore of babylon is a reference to the jewish elite (see zechariah 5, jeremiah 2/3). The false messiah being jewish will be handpicked by the jewish elite to rule them, but as God says in Zech 11, he will betray them, 'not care for them'.

is that why you then mentioned catholicism and then islam. Catholicism is not the whore of babylon. The jews are. The only n reason you think of catholicism is because martin luther, a deranged man from centuries ago said so.. but that guy also said the pope was the anti christ!!

IF you meant the 'image of the beast' to be the 'divine feminine'...since when did islam worship images/forms? we're more hardcore against that than any other religion. stop making shit up man.

3) Ezio: "You are... gods."Minerva: "No. Not gods. We simply came... before."
Assassins creed drew inspiration from the ismaili sect which in turn drew inspiration from ancient zoroastrian beliefs.
these semi-divine type beings that are not God...are the Amesha Spenta in zoroastrianism.
The 2 in question are actually called Haurvatat and Ameretat
in turn these 2 are then reflected as testing angels in the Quranic story of the origins of BLACK MAGIC...called Harut and Marut! not only that, in the Quran they are only mentioned when Solomon was exonerated and cleared of the accusations against him...which God attributes to demons working against him (eg like Asmodeos). so there's obv a big connection to these stories which links all the way to the zoroastrian Amesha Spenta.
the 'Templar order in AC being linked to freemasonry makes the connection to Solomon obvious which makes it easy for me to connect the dots to everything else.

how on earth did you see that and think of islam though? seriously. You're delusional beyond belief.

Just reflecting on your comments, I think there are two points that come over to me...

Firstly there are a good many Catholics who don’t worship Mary. But there are some...

There may be many Muslims who don’t identify Allah as a “moon goddess” but as @Kais_1 alludes to, there is at least a hint of another interpretation.

https://www.crystalvaults.com/goddess-allat

It is worth pointing out that I do not believe that either mainstream Catholicism or Islam teach the worship of the divine feminine (at least overtly), but my reason for bringing it up is that I can’t help but wonder if there might be something of a demonic deception that may be waiting in the wings.

If the mainstream religions were given the impression that they were all wrong by some paradigm shifting event but were sold the line that they had seeds of the truth in each, a new unity based on an emergent false spirituality might emerge.

But what do I know @AspiringSoul ;-)

 

[Infinityloop]

IF you meant the 'image of the beast' to be the 'divine feminine'...since when did islam worship images/forms? we're more hardcore against that than any other religion. stop making shit up man.

100%, if Islam is known for anything, it's our vehement rejection of any attribution to God (apart from Salafis though with their anthropomorphism...)
The concept of Tawhid has no room for the association of form with essence. God is Unity and indivisible, there is no exception to the core doctrine of all of Islam.

Judaism is more complex and differing in areas (as you'd know, they have more of a tribal deity than a transcendent one - despite the more universal depiction of God in Genesis 1)
Christianity on the other hand, it doesn't matter which way you slice it (with exception of those rare rational bunch who reject the idea of God-incarnate), they believe in a man-god which negates the concept of Monotheism. It's obscured and obfuscated Polytheism.
One thing most Christians would lack the comprehension of and would drop their jaws to this but Hinduism is monotheistic, whereas Christianity is polytheistic. Form vs Essence is always the key.
Things get even worse when the concept of "those who reject that God can incarnate into a human body are heretics damned to hell" comes into the conversation because it unveils the intense polemic of early Christianity against Jews who rightfully rejected such doctrines. However Jesus is NOWHERE even in the Christian New Testament claimed to be literally-God. Some people would be amazed to hear that but he is nowhere called that, nor does he ever claim that himself (not even in the Gospel of John, contrary to popular anachronistic dogma). Nor does Paul even claim it and it's no wonder why, because such a doctrine is a latter development.

And to any Christian reading, no, the English word "Lord" does not mean "deity". And the words which "lord" is translated from vary between books in the OT and NT.

 

[Infinityloop]

There may be many Muslims who don’t identify Allah as a “moon goddess” but as @Kais_1 alludes to, there is at least a hint of another interpretation.

https://www.crystalvaults.com/goddess-allat

"Have you then considered al-Lat and al-Uzza,
And Manat, the third, the last?
What! for you the males and for Him the females!
This indeed is an unjust division!
They are naught but names which you have named, you and your fathers; Allah has not sent for them any authority. They follow naught but conjecture and the low desires which (their) souls incline to; and certainly the guidance has come to them from their Lord.
Or shall man have what he wishes?
Nay! for Allah is the hereafter and the former (life).
And how many an angel is there in the heavens whose intercession does not avail at all except after Allah has given permission to whom He pleases and chooses.
Most surely they who do not believe in the hereafter name the angels with female names.
And they have no knowledge of it; they do not follow anything but conjecture, and surely conjecture does not avail against the truth at all."
- Qur'an 53:19-28

"I swear by the sun and its brilliance,
And the moon when it follows the sun,
And the day when it shows it,
And the night when it draws a veil over it,
And the Universe and Him (Allah) Who made it"
- Qur'an 91:1-5

The moon-god meme is pathetic, the only word that summarizes it is pathetic, it doesn't really even dignify a response but the above verses alone debunk it.
Afterall God (Allah) is "The Lord Of The Worlds". The moon is not the lord of the entire universe and beyond, lmao.

There is no excuse for the ignorance around the Meccan pagan goddess al-Lat either, she is part of the whole Islamic history, she was part of the Jahiliyyah (age of ignorance) of 6th century Mecca.

 

[AspiringSoul]

Just reflecting on your comments, I think there are two points that come over to me...

Firstly there are a good many Catholics who don’t worship Mary. But there are some...

There may be many Muslims who don’t identify Allah as a “moon goddess” but as @Kais_1 alludes to, there is at least a hint of another interpretation.

https://www.crystalvaults.com/goddess-allat

It is worth pointing out that I die believe that either mainstream Catholicism or Islam teach the worship of the divine feminine, but my reason for bringing it up is that I can’t help but wonder if there might be something of a demonic deception that may be waiting in the wings.

If the mainstream religions were given the impression that they were all wrong but had seeds of the truth in each, a new unity based on an emergent false spirituality might emerge.

But what do I know @AspiringSoul ;-)

kais has absolutely no credibility..the guy isnt even sane and i blocked him a while back. i asked him questions on the numerology he used in relation to letters in arabic to draw his conclusions..the guy uses the english letters and his own personal numerological approach
eg 'ALLAH' where each letter has a numerical value and comes to a total.
in the arabic/semitic method, a letter's numerical value is only used once even if the letter is used 2 or 3 times in the word.

then he'll be like 'the number totals x.....and then link it to another random word that represents some sort of polythiesm with the same numerical value and say 'this is proof islam worships this'.


About everything else you wrote, what makes you think that isnt true for judaism in the first place?
for me, regardless of my overall opinion of religions, i will credit them within the merits of their own message eg if they contradict themselves, ill call that out. by 'them' i mean the collective narratives and the scripture.

For example...
antiochus epiphanes massacred many jews and forced hellenistic culture on them. the ones who resisted were the maccabees and they were right in the eyes of God.
they opposed hellenism and kept to their own faith. yet, the idea behind Jesus as the incarnation, was a hellenised jewish interpretation of the OT. eg the 'image of God' was linked to the greek idea of logos.
i wont go on with this...it just means that all these ideas like the incarnation, the logos as the 'son' (metaphorical term) came from the very culture the jews were told to resist by God.
if this was another religion like islam, you would have different things to say.

i have said numerous times that islam and Mohammad were kind of proto-types ie shadow manifestations of the messianic archetype reflected from the jews of the 7th century.

it links to leviticus 26's 'punishments for disobedience' prophecy.
eg 'you will plant a seed in vain, but others would eat it's fruit' or something to that effect.
it means after rejecting Jesus, the jews wanted to manifest the jewish messiah. they did everything eg they conquered jerusalem, were building the temple...
and then that 'fruit' they desired was given to arabs.
YET this was not a fruit by God's design but by the jewish rabbinic design.
it was the type of earthly messiah the jews wanted, someone unlike Jesus.
so within that there are obv biblical messianic overtones which manifested in the prophethood of Mohammad.
eg he was the suffering servant in Mecca and the davidic conquerer in Madina.
YET it goes even deeper
for example the prophecy of the one calling in the Wilderness.
since jews obv rejected john the baptist and Jesus...then this 'messianic archetype' had to play out in the shadow form again..
so Mohammad became the one calling to the straight path in the wilderness, quite literally...and that in turn is a larger picture of God's intent...because without Jesus there could be no Mohammad...and it is because of Mohammad, Jesus has to come..
because he is the messiah of Jews and gentiles..and he fulfilled the law for jews but not gentiles
the religion has to be complete when he comes.

I can be a muslim yet acknowledge all the above..because it is by God's design. i can easily intergrate the pauline teachings into a context where they make sense for me as a muslim.

now dont get me wrong, there are muslims who would clearly reject what im saying. that's only becase they're preoccupied in their own ignorance and have never studied this topic in depth to understand it.

on the otherhand, guys like you...you attribute far too much to 'satan'.
why did it say 'to the pure all things are pure'? why did Jesus preach the 'single eye' eg the mind that is focused on God/unity?
such a mind wont think 'omg dat is of da devil'. the christians regarded early islam as a true religion sent by God to test them.

 

[AspiringSoul]

100%, if Islam is known for anything, it's our vehement rejection of any attribution to God (apart from Salafis though with their anthropomorphism...)
The concept of Tawhid has no room for the association of form with essence. God is Unity and indivisible, there is no exception to the core doctrine of all of Islam.

Judaism is more complex and differing in areas (as you'd know, they have more of a tribal deity than a transcendent one - despite the more universal depiction of God in Genesis 1)
Christianity on the other hand, it doesn't matter which way you slice it (with exception of those rare rational bunch who reject the idea of God-incarnate), they believe in a man-god which negates the concept of Monotheism. It's obscured and obfuscated Polytheism.
One thing most Christians would lack the comprehension of and would drop their jaws to this but Hinduism is monotheistic, whereas Christianity is polytheistic. Form vs Essence is always the key.
Things get even worse when the concept of "those who reject that God can incarnate into a human body are heretics damned to hell" comes into the conversation because it unveils the intense polemic of early Christianity against Jews who rightfully rejected such doctrines. However Jesus is NOWHERE even in the Christian New Testament claimed to be literally-God. Some people would be amazed to hear that but he is nowhere called that, nor does he ever claim that himself (not even in the Gospel of John, contrary to popular anachronistic dogma). Nor does Paul even claim it and it's no wonder why, because such a doctrine is a latter development.

And to any Christian reading, no, the English word "Lord" does not mean "deity". And the words which "lord" is translated from vary between books in the OT and NT.

those of us who were influenced by interfaith dialogue are aware of how contradictions are 'exposed'.
with christians, they'll ignore much that is against their view by only focusing on the bit that supports their view, regardless of it's intended context.

eg if Jesus said the Son can do nothing. how can they even attempt to try and quote something that suggests Jesus is God?
i will accommodate both, within a context of a unified metaphysical theory...
eg the Transcendence and Immanence of God taken into account..
the Immanence of God is in plurality..but we dont take it literally.
These christians didnt have the right foundations taught to them early on eg they dont have tawheed.
they forget that the entire abrahimic story began when Abraham rejected polythiesm.
tawheed was by far the most important factor in the entire Abrahimic story.
not Love or good works, but correct belief.

 

[AspiringSoul]

kais has absolutely no credibility..the guy isnt even sane and i blocked him a while back. i asked him questions on the numerology he used in relation to letters in arabic to draw his conclusions..the guy uses the english letters and his own personal numerological approach
eg 'ALLAH' where each letter has a numerical value and comes to a total.
in the arabic/semitic method, a letter's numerical value is only used once even if the letter is used 2 or 3 times in the word.

then he'll be like 'the number totals x.....and then link it to another random word that represents some sort of polythiesm with the same numerical value and say 'this is proof islam worships this'.


About everything else you wrote, what makes you think that isnt true for judaism in the first place?
for me, regardless of my overall opinion of religions, i will credit them within the merits of their own message eg if they contradict themselves, ill call that out. by 'them' i mean the collective narratives and the scripture.

For example...
antiochus epiphanes massacred many jews and forced hellenistic culture on them. the ones who resisted were the maccabees and they were right in the eyes of God.
they opposed hellenism and kept to their own faith. yet, the idea behind Jesus as the incarnation, was a hellenised jewish interpretation of the OT. eg the 'image of God' was linked to the greek idea of logos.
i wont go on with this...it just means that all these ideas like the incarnation, the logos as the 'son' (metaphorical term) came from the very culture the jews were told to resist by God.
if this was another religion like islam, you would have different things to say.

i have said numerous times that islam and Mohammad were kind of proto-types ie shadow manifestations of the messianic archetype reflected from the jews of the 7th century.

it links to leviticus 26's 'punishments for disobedience' prophecy.
eg 'you will plant a seed in vain, but others would eat it's fruit' or something to that effect.
it means after rejecting Jesus, the jews wanted to manifest the jewish messiah. they did everything eg they conquered jerusalem, were building the temple...
and then that 'fruit' they desired was given to arabs.
YET this was not a fruit by God's design but by the jewish rabbinic design.
it was the type of earthly messiah the jews wanted, someone unlike Jesus.
so within that there are obv biblical messianic overtones which manifested in the prophethood of Mohammad.
eg he was the suffering servant in Mecca and the davidic conquerer in Madina.
YET it goes even deeper
for example the prophecy of the one calling in the Wilderness.
since jews obv rejected john the baptist and Jesus...then this 'messianic archetype' had to play out in the shadow form again..
so Mohammad became the one calling to the straight path in the wilderness, quite literally...and that in turn is a larger picture of God's intent...because without Jesus there could be no Mohammad...and it is because of Mohammad, Jesus has to come..
because he is the messiah of Jews and gentiles..and he fulfilled the law for jews but not gentiles
the religion has to be complete when he comes.

I can be a muslim yet acknowledge all the above..because it is by God's design. i can easily intergrate the pauline teachings into a context where they make sense for me as a muslim.

now dont get me wrong, there are muslims who would clearly reject what im saying. that's only becase they're preoccupied in their own ignorance and have never studied this topic in depth to understand it.

on the otherhand, guys like you...you attribute far too much to 'satan'.
why did it say 'to the pure all things are pure'? why did Jesus preach the 'single eye' eg the mind that is focused on God/unity?
such a mind wont think 'omg dat is of da devil'. the christians regarded early islam as a true religion sent by God to test them.

by 'God's design' what i mean is, there are perspectives, the higher perspective is that God is even playing the jews..eg 'by their tresspass the gentiles are reckoned'
so even the evil the jews do, which results in their punishments, brings about events like the manifestation of a shadow messiah who is arab. From another perspective the jewish design was to have an earthly messiah and not someone like Jesus.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

What got me wondering about this topic was not the conviction that either Allah was a moon goddess or Mary was a representation of the Divine feminine...

Fora while, out in the MSM there has been a narrative of a “new paradigm” coming, perhaps accompanied by an apparent alien visitation. The dramatised version of Childhood’s End paints just such a story:-

Of course, unless you were of the persuasion that we might be living in the run up to a period where such a colossal deception were waiting in the wings, such speculation would appear to be the result of an overheated imagination.

 

[Kais_1]

What got me wondering about this topic was not the conviction that either Allah was a moon goddess or Mary was a representation of the Divine feminine...

Fora while, out in the MSM there has been a narrative of a “new paradigm” coming, perhaps accompanied by an apparent alien visitation. The dramatised version of Childhood’s End paints just such a story:-

Of course, unless you were of the persuasion that we might be living in the run up to a period where such a colossal deception were waiting in the wings, such speculation would appear to be the result of an overheated imagination.

seems like a interesting program...i will keep an eye open for it...

as you may have seen from the above response from the so called Muslims....i personally dont need to resort to such levels, as i have shown the truth in this thread and others.

this is one thing i hate about muslims, is the hypocrisy, the truth can be staring them in the faces and they still deny it.

 

[Kais_1]

more on NAJM

As you know it works out to be...SARS


S 19
A 1
R 18
S 19

19 + 19 = 38 = 11 = K

= ARK = WAR or MARS / ARM /RAW

As you can see it works out to be ARK and WAR

lets concentrate on ARK....

as far as i am aware there are 2 ARKS...one with Moses and the other with Noah

so that equates to M and N

M = 13

N = 14

MAN leaves RK or KR

Radha Krishna

R Kelly and many more

= 27 = W in arabic

= 1 in English = A

= WA or MARK

or AMY

111

also ark =21 and war =42

Now lets move onto the word WAR and ARK together...

A =1 R =18 K =11

A =1 R =18 W = 23

you have 8 11

and if you use the code that i told you guys about, both K and W =11

so that 11811 = 282 - i personally think its seen as 822 which is 811

or

23 + 11 = 34 + 82 = 116 or 911 reversed...

There you have it the full formula in the above few words...

all based, of course upon SIRIUS the star.

Just a quick update....
As you know it works out to be...SARS


S 19
A 1
R 18
S 19

19 + 19 = 38 = 11 = K

= ARK = WAR or MARS / ARM /RAW/RAM

can also be worked out as RAM...and then you have age of aries.....pre islam, pre christinaity and the pagan goddesses

 

[Kais_1]

kais has absolutely no credibility..the guy isnt even sane and i blocked him a while back. i asked him questions on the numerology he used in relation to letters in arabic to draw his conclusions..the guy uses the english letters and his own personal numerological approach
eg 'ALLAH' where each letter has a numerical value and comes to a total.
in the arabic/semitic method, a letter's numerical value is only used once even if the letter is used 2 or 3 times in the word.

then he'll be like 'the number totals x.....and then link it to another random word that represents some sort of polythiesm with the same numerical value and say 'this is proof islam worships this'.


About everything else you wrote, what makes you think that isnt true for judaism in the first place?
for me, regardless of my overall opinion of religions, i will credit them within the merits of their own message eg if they contradict themselves, ill call that out. by 'them' i mean the collective narratives and the scripture.

For example...
antiochus epiphanes massacred many jews and forced hellenistic culture on them. the ones who resisted were the maccabees and they were right in the eyes of God.
they opposed hellenism and kept to their own faith. yet, the idea behind Jesus as the incarnation, was a hellenised jewish interpretation of the OT. eg the 'image of God' was linked to the greek idea of logos.
i wont go on with this...it just means that all these ideas like the incarnation, the logos as the 'son' (metaphorical term) came from the very culture the jews were told to resist by God.
if this was another religion like islam, you would have different things to say.

i have said numerous times that islam and Mohammad were kind of proto-types ie shadow manifestations of the messianic archetype reflected from the jews of the 7th century.

it links to leviticus 26's 'punishments for disobedience' prophecy.
eg 'you will plant a seed in vain, but others would eat it's fruit' or something to that effect.
it means after rejecting Jesus, the jews wanted to manifest the jewish messiah. they did everything eg they conquered jerusalem, were building the temple...
and then that 'fruit' they desired was given to arabs.
YET this was not a fruit by God's design but by the jewish rabbinic design.
it was the type of earthly messiah the jews wanted, someone unlike Jesus.
so within that there are obv biblical messianic overtones which manifested in the prophethood of Mohammad.
eg he was the suffering servant in Mecca and the davidic conquerer in Madina.
YET it goes even deeper
for example the prophecy of the one calling in the Wilderness.
since jews obv rejected john the baptist and Jesus...then this 'messianic archetype' had to play out in the shadow form again..
so Mohammad became the one calling to the straight path in the wilderness, quite literally...and that in turn is a larger picture of God's intent...because without Jesus there could be no Mohammad...and it is because of Mohammad, Jesus has to come..
because he is the messiah of Jews and gentiles..and he fulfilled the law for jews but not gentiles
the religion has to be complete when he comes.

I can be a muslim yet acknowledge all the above..because it is by God's design. i can easily intergrate the pauline teachings into a context where they make sense for me as a muslim.

now dont get me wrong, there are muslims who would clearly reject what im saying. that's only becase they're preoccupied in their own ignorance and have never studied this topic in depth to understand it.

on the otherhand, guys like you...you attribute far too much to 'satan'.
why did it say 'to the pure all things are pure'? why did Jesus preach the 'single eye' eg the mind that is focused on God/unity?
such a mind wont think 'omg dat is of da devil'. the christians regarded early islam as a true religion sent by God to test them.

what do you mean, i have no credibility, i have the same credibility as you, i am a poster on these forums, as are you.

and im sane as sane is!

Also the way i decipher the texts , works for me each and every time, i suggest you quit talking crap and try it yourself....

let me give you a example....ALLAH translates directly to ASSAD....work that out and then tell me im talking crap.