Dr. William Campbell destroyed by Dr. Zakir Naik on scientific errors in the Bible MUST WATCH!!

[TokiEl]

Looking back at what you wrote, it actually makes no sense. The small difference in articles, the and a, is what makes you believe Gabriel is an angel of the Lord, but someone else is the angel of the Lord, namely, Jesus?

In Islam, the view would probably be Gabriel is The angel of the Lord as he's considered the archangel, leader of angels and God's highest ranked angel with the most responsibility.

There is only one Archangel in the Scriptures and that is Michael whose name means WhoislikeGod.

It seems to me a somewhat safe bet that Michael might be the Angel of the Covenant in whom the Name of God is.

So if you ask who Jesus Christ was before He was born into our world... i don't think i'm out on a limb by saying the Archangel Michael.

 

[Haich]

Stop saying everything is God or like God. That sounds Hindu-ish


archangel
ˈɑːkeɪndʒ(ə)l,ɑːkˈeɪndʒ(ə)l/
noun
plural noun: archangels

1. 1.
   an angel of greater than ordinary rank.
2. 2.
   a yellow-flowered Eurasian dead-nettle found in woodland.

 

[TokiEl]

Stop saying everything is God or like God. That sounds Hindu-ish


archangel
ˈɑːkeɪndʒ(ə)l,ɑːkˈeɪndʒ(ə)l/
noun
plural noun: archangels

1. 1.
   an angel of greater than ordinary rank.
2. 2.
   a yellow-flowered Eurasian dead-nettle found in woodland.

To very name of Michael the Archangel means WhoislikeGod.


Daniel 10 18"Then there came again and touched me one like the appearance of a man [Gabriel], and he strengthened me, 19And said, O man greatly beloved, fear not: peace be unto thee, be strong, yea, be strong. And when he had spoken unto me, I was strengthened, and said, Let my lord speak; for thou hast strengthened me. 20Then said he, Knowest thou wherefore I come unto thee? and now will I return to fight with the prince of Persia: and when I am gone forth, lo, the prince of Grecia shall come. 21But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince."

 

[phipps]

The archangel Michael is one of the ways that Jesus appeared to people, especially in the Old Testament. The Bible tells us that it is Michael who intercedes for God's people in Daniel 12:1, And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.. Jesus is also known as our Intercessor. When the archangel, the general of the Lord's army appeared to Joshua, Joshua took off his shoes and worshipped him Joshua 5:13-15. No angel of God would accept worship because they are created beings like us. Revelation 22:8-9, And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things. Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God. Matthew 4:9-10, And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me. Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. We also read in the book of Jude that it is Michael who resurrects Moses Jude 1:9. And of course, Jesus is the Resurrection. No one else has the power to resurrect the dead except God. Only God who gives life and has the power to restore it.We also read that the Lord is going to descend with the voice of the archangel, and we know clearly that Jesus is the one who's going to descend. 1 Thessalonians 4:16, For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: And so through the Bible, we see these little clues. Michael, the archangel, is another title for Jesus. That doesn't mean Jesus is an angel. It means a "messenger." Jesus is the Lord with a great voice.

 

[TokiEl]

Revelation 12 7 "And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,"

2 Thessalonians 1 7 "And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,"

 

[Serveto]

This is the bit what @Haich posted that I replied to ...

I see. That is to say, I see now. By using the "quote" feature of the board as you did, I thought, and reasonably, that you were responding to something she had said within her quotation. Thank you for clarifying.

I see. So should we completely discount the sculpting profession? In your opinion, should Christians refrain take up the profession since it involves making graven images, not necessarily "unto thee" but graven images nevertheless?

In my opinion, at least my opinion today, and to keep things lively, in sum, the commandment does not apply to Christians because they are not under the curse, that's right, curse, also known sometimes as the "yoke" of the Mosaic law: in Christianity, a greater than Moses is here, namely Jesus Christ, and death is either swallowed up in victory or soon will be. However, if I thought that the commandment did apply to them, then, yes, just as one does not find many sculptures and sculptors in, say, the Me'a She'arim (Ultraorthodox) neighborhood of Tel-Aviv, even if there might be a few Goldman Sachs goldsmiths presently engraving the likeness of cherubim, pomegranates and other things that are in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth working for the Temple Institute, under apparent exemption from the commandment, I would expect Christendom, or what remains of it, to be comparatively free from images, though not necessarily from other forms of idolatry, as you, drawing in turn upon @LostCoin's contributions, rightly point out.

Maybe its similar to the case Christ quoted, of David and his men picking grain on the Sabbath?

Yes, it could be. But, it seems to me, making a pita bread for lunch on the Sabbath doesn't seem quite as, well, dramatic as violating, annulling, circumventing or otherwise abrogating it seven times seven in order to, um, let's say expurgate a gentile city and all of its inhabitants.

But now i wonder. Since God finally "got it right", with the Final Revelation, was Sabbath sacredness transferred to Friday? I mean, thats what the Catholic church did, that the faithful should honor Sunday. And if Friday should be honored as the Sabbath was, should Muslims fight on Friday, if there is a war?

As I understand, and generally speaking, neither Christians nor Muslims observe the Mosaic Sabbath Day as such. From the Christian side, it is said that the Law, or Torah in total, was a strict, harsh, Jewish schoolmaster, and only the stiff-necked Jews, as God is said to have described them, were made to sit in the classroom, at times with sore bums from being repeatedly spanked and disciplined.

Hezekiah did something about it

Finally, some generations later. Apparently, a lot of Israelites fell into snake idol worship because they saw a brass snake which was somehow instrumental in, a part of, their ancestors' remarkable healing.

 

[TokiEl]

In my opinion, at least my opinion today, and to keep things lively, in sum, the commandment does not apply to Christians because they are not under the curse, that's right, curse, also known sometimes as the "yoke" of the Mosaic law:

When there is no law then there is no crime.

With the law came the crime... and that is why the law is called a curse.

The law is a curse for those who broke the law. Their crimes are spots on their souls.

Only the Blood of God blots out those spots.


How are our souls washed with the Blood of God ? How can we apply that Blood on our souls ?

That is the most important question anybody will ever ask...

 

[Claire Rousseau]

He might have worded the title better but it is a message of repentance. How can you claim faith in Him if you don't obey Him ?


Matthew 4 17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

John 14 15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.





Christians ought to know to do good.


1 Peter 1 14 As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:

15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;

16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.





You're actually saying that the standard of God is set too high for you. And since you can't clear the bar you either believe other people can't as well or you would like to drag them down to your level of underachievements.





Why are you even disagreeing with repentance when your last sentence above is about repentance ?





Once you were sick and in need of a physician... but when Christ comes into your life you're not sick anymore.

You love to point out errors and mistakes in His apostles when they did not yet have the Holy spirit...

Stop making excuses for sins and start to be holy.

He isn’t making excuses for sin.
I am fairly certain both Daciple & floss actually HATE sin.

That is what being born again/saved does....you receive the Holy Spirit, and it convicts you when you sin. Our Spirit is willing but our flesh is weak.

It is only because our spirit is still in our sinful bodies of flesh that we sin.

It is a daily struggle, and while I believe that one sins less once they are saved, we will never be sin free while in a body that has a sin nature.



If you honestly believe you are sinless, would you say that you are now as good as Jesus?

 

[Daciple]

He might have worded the title better but it is a message of repentance. How can you claim faith in Him if you don't obey Him ?


Matthew 4 17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

John 14 15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

What is Jesus commandments Toki?

And I explained the 2 meanings of Repent, look up the actual Greek Word that you are quoting here, it means change your mind...

Christians ought to know to do good.

You are right Christians ought to and they do know, but knowing is wholly different than doing. I love how whenever this discussion starts you always dance around the direct questions posed to you, why?

Because we both know that you arent Holy in and of yourself, that your actions, your thoughts ect are impure, that in fact you Sin but your Pride (a Sin) wont let allow you to admit these things...

You're actually saying that the standard of God is set too high for you. And since you can't clear the bar you either believe other people can't as well or you would like to drag them down to your level of underachievements.

The Standard of God is too high for ANYONE including yourself, the Standard of God is Jesus Christ, would you like to go on Record and say you have achieved Perfection in your Flesh as Christ did?

That is literally the entire purpose of Christ, that the Standard of God is Perfection and no one can ever achieve such a Standard so Jesus Christ came in the Flesh to achieve that Standard and thus BY FAITH THRU GRACE in Him, His Works, His Perfection, and nothing of ourselves, we are now given the same status in the eyes of God. Again its called Justification and I dont think you really have a clue how that works.

You think YOU have achieved Perfection and Sinlessness and that by YOUR Non Sinning (supposedly) that YOU now are Justified in Gods eyes. The facts are, you still Sin, you in your flesh are not perfect and you in your flesh of yourself can NEVER be Justified in Gods eyes. Thank you Jesus that you give us Grace and thru Faith in you we can now be seen as Perfect in the eyes of God...

Why are you even disagreeing with repentance when your last sentence above is about repentance ?

Because the method and understanding of Repentance is clearly different between us, I explained that there is a Repentance unto Salvation which is a change of mind, from unbelief to belief, and then there is the DAILY struggle with Sin where we are continually failing but asking God to help us turn from Sin aka Repenting from it.

Your belief as expressed on this forum is essentially, one must turn from all Sin IN ORDER to be Saved and then once they are Saved they will live perfectly and never Sin again. That is not only how you express that ideology but that is exactly how you present yourself, as tho you yourselve have already achieved this perfect level of Holiness and thus never Sin.

Yet we both know you Sin, every single day, but for some reason cant bring yourself to admit such thing...

Once you were sick and in need of a physician... but when Christ comes into your life you're not sick anymore.

You love to point out errors and mistakes in His apostles when they did not yet have the Holy spirit...

Stop making excuses for sins and start to be holy.

And there is a massive difference between us right there, you think you are no longer Sick, ever that you are now Perfect and thus guess what that means, you no longer NEED Jesus. That is exactly how you come across and what your ideology you espouse states.

I on the other hand understand that I am always and constantly in need of Christ, everyday I need Him. There is always some aspect of my life that isnt Perfect (all of it actually) and thus I am continually needing to come to Christ for help. That is what the Parable is explaining, the Righteous feel they dont need Jesus, in context whom do you think Jesus is calling the "Righteous" here? Are they truly "Righteous"?

Luke 5:29 And Levi made him a great feast in his own house: and there was a great company of publicans and of others that sat down with them.
30 But their scribes and Pharisees murmured against his disciples, saying, Why do ye eat and drink with publicans and sinners?
31 And Jesus answering said unto them, They that are whole need not a physician; but they that are sick.
32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

The contrast here is the Pharisees vs the publicans and sinners. The Pharisees THOUGHT they were Righteous, but were they really?

Matt 23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.

The explanation of the Parable is that those who think they are Righteous, who think they are well, WONT come to Christ to have Him heal or help them. The Pharisees didnt come to Christ, they THOUGHT they were Righteous, however they were NOT actually Righteous, they needed Jesus MORE than the "sinners and publicans" but the sinners and publicans DID go to Christ because they understood they needed help.

So in my view its people who THINK they are Righteous or SInless, reminiscent of what you keep saying on this Thread, who wont and dont go to Christ because they believe they dont really need Him, when in fact EVERYONE needs Him all the time!!!

And I love to show that the Apostles were Human like you and me, they made mistakes they were sinners like you are who struggled with Sin just like you and I do. You are remiss to believe that after Pentecost then all the sudden these people were Perfect and never Sinned! If that was the case then why did Paul rebuke Peter for how he acted towards Gentiles? Peter 100% knew that Gentiles were included in the Kingdom but he did something that went against what he knew was correct, and what did we learn in that verse Toki? When we know to do right and dont thats called Sin.

Gal 2:11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.
12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.
13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.
14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?

So we see that Peter definitely sinned here, yet you want to say after one comes to Christ they live perfectly, that my friend is a lie and you actually know this but for whatever reason you refuse to be honest and admit it. Come to Jesus brother, He will help you with all the Sin you are struggling with, thats what He is there for!!!

 

[phipps]

It is a daily struggle, and while I believe that one sins less once they are saved, we will never be sin free while in a body that has a sin nature.

God wants to save us from our sins. Sin is bad. It’s deadly. One of the central themes you’ll find in the whole Bible is the theme of Salvation and sin. All the way through the Bible in virtually every story and every doctrine you can find this thread consistently running that God is saving us from sin. It’s a battle between righteousness and sin, between good and evil, the government and motives of the devil and the motives and the kingdom of God. I wanted to quote something someone said. He said, “It’s probably safe to say that the majority of Christians today are resigned to falling short of the moral law, in fact, they’re quite satisfied that God doesn’t even expect them to obey the law in the flesh or the spirit.” You know that thinking, that philosophy is prevalent that, “Yes, Jesus came to save us from our sin, but who is sinless?” And since nobody would have the audacity to wave their arm in the air and say, “Well, I’m sinless.” Then we all sort of resign ourselves to the fact that we don’t exactly know what it means to be saved from sin. It must not mean to be saved from sin, and that’s really exactly what it means. The effect of such teaching is exactly what one would expect—multitudes of emotionally happy, but disobedient, church members who feel that any concern about keeping the commandments is nitpicking and legalistic.

What a delusive strategy of Satan! As the inventor of the doctrine, the evil one is simply supporting his ancient accusation that God was asking too much. He accused God of being unfair by requiring something that was impossible.

We can buy into a very popular philosophy that is circulating among the majority of Christians that really what the Lord meant to say was he saves us with our sins, in our sins, but you can’t find that scripture. It doesn't exist. You can come to him in your sins and with your sins but he loves you too much to leave you that way. He wants to save you from your sins.

We must be saved from our sin. There is no sin in Heaven and Jesus will not suddenly transform us from sinners to saints when He returns. That is not what the Bible teaches. The Bible teaches that transformation, conversions must take place now. If God could just wave his wand and suddenly make us holy against our will then, Lord, do it now, right? But you and I must participate in this plan of salvation and being saved from sin. The Bible says, for instance, Ezekiel 28:16 speaking about the devil, “And you sinned, therefore I cast you as profane out of the mountain of God” that’s a term that’s used for Heaven. The devil was cast out because of sin. The Bible says there was war in heaven. Satan and His angels were cast out down to the earth, why? Because of sin. And it’s a very simple analogy or evaluation if Satan was cast out of heaven for sinning are we going in deliberately sinning? Sin cannot be permitted in heaven.

Heaven is pure. Heaven is holy. The purpose of the Plan of Salvation is God wants us to be a holy people. God says, “Be ye holy.” He wants us to be a holy people so we can live in that holy place. God would never ask us to be what we cannot be.

• 1 Corinthians 15:57—“But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.”
  
  
  • 1 John 5:4—“For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.”
  
  
  • Philippians 2:5—“Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus.”
  
  
  • 2 Corinthians 5:21—“… that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.”
• 1 John 3:6—“Whatsoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

 

[JoChris]

I can see the points of both sides of the argument:
Faith in Jesus ONLY required for salvation itself versus proof of faith shown via (increasing levels) of repentance and obedience.

Fancy terms often used are JUSTIFICATION and SANCTIFICATION.

The Gospel is "Good News" because we have to do not have to earn salvation.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

I think Tokei is thinking of this issue, supported in the very next verse:
Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

So I think both groups are right but you are looking at different sides of the same coin.

Here is a good article from a Lutheran man, the church which greatly emphasises grace only for salvation.

http://justandsinner.blogspot.com/2013/04/progressive-sanctification-lutheran.html

 

[TokiEl]

He isn’t making excuses for sin.
I am fairly certain both Daciple & floss actually HATE sin.

That is what being born again/saved does....you receive the Holy Spirit, and it convicts you when you sin. Our Spirit is willing but our flesh is weak.

It is only because our spirit is still in our sinful bodies of flesh that we sin.

It is a daily struggle, and while I believe that one sins less once they are saved, we will never be sin free while in a body that has a sin nature.



If you honestly believe you are sinless, would you say that you are now as good as Jesus?

He is God and i am not.

You must realize there is power in your thoughts and words... and when you think and speak that you will never be sin free then you probably won't.

I must speak up when Christians think that Christ will excuse their sins just because they believe in Him.

Do you obey the Ten Commandments ? If so you're doing quite right...

 

[TokiEl]

What is Jesus commandments Toki?

Have you plucked out your eye yet ? Why are you walking around with two eyeballs ? jk

Read the Gospels and hear what He says.

John 14 15 "If ye love me, keep my commandments."

You tell me what His commandments are.

And I explained the 2 meanings of Repent, look up the actual Greek Word that you are quoting here, it means change your mind...

Matthew 4 17"From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."

You tell me what He is saying.

You are right Christians ought to and they do know, but knowing is wholly different than doing. I love how whenever this discussion starts you always dance around the direct questions posed to you, why?

Because we both know that you arent Holy in and of yourself, that your actions, your thoughts ect are impure, that in fact you Sin but your Pride (a Sin) wont let allow you to admit these things...

Now you sound like a snake. And that's it i don't bother with you no more.

I have better things to do.


-------edit


Actually i don't lol.

The Standard of God is too high for ANYONE including yourself, the Standard of God is Jesus Christ, would you like to go on Record and say you have achieved Perfection in your Flesh as Christ did?

That is literally the entire purpose of Christ, that the Standard of God is Perfection and no one can ever achieve such a Standard so Jesus Christ came in the Flesh to achieve that Standard and thus BY FAITH THRU GRACE in Him, His Works, His Perfection, and nothing of ourselves, we are now given the same status in the eyes of God. Again its called Justification and I dont think you really have a clue how that works.

You think YOU have achieved Perfection and Sinlessness and that by YOUR Non Sinning (supposedly) that YOU now are Justified in Gods eyes. The facts are, you still Sin, you in your flesh are not perfect and you in your flesh of yourself can NEVER be Justified in Gods eyes. Thank you Jesus that you give us Grace and thru Faith in you we can now be seen as Perfect in the eyes of God...

Matthew 5 48"Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."

You tell me what Jesus is saying.

Because the method and understanding of Repentance is clearly different between us, I explained that there is a Repentance unto Salvation which is a change of mind, from unbelief to belief, and then there is the DAILY struggle with Sin where we are continually failing but asking God to help us turn from Sin aka Repenting from it.

Your belief as expressed on this forum is essentially, one must turn from all Sin IN ORDER to be Saved and then once they are Saved they will live perfectly and never Sin again. That is not only how you express that ideology but that is exactly how you present yourself, as tho you yourselve have already achieved this perfect level of Holiness and thus never Sin.

Yet we both know you Sin, every single day, but for some reason cant bring yourself to admit such thing...

1 John 3 9"Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."

You being sure that i sin will probably do you no good.

In front of God you plot to point on me as your defence for continued sinning ?

And there is a massive difference between us right there, you think you are no longer Sick, ever that you are now Perfect and thus guess what that means, you no longer NEED Jesus. That is exactly how you come across and what your ideology you espouse states.

I on the other hand understand that I am always and constantly in need of Christ, everyday I need Him. There is always some aspect of my life that isnt Perfect (all of it actually) and thus I am continually needing to come to Christ for help. That is what the Parable is explaining, the Righteous feel they dont need Jesus, in context whom do you think Jesus is calling the "Righteous" here? Are they truly "Righteous"?

The crimes that we committed before we came to Christ are blotted out by His blood.

Now we are no longer supposed to sin.

We are to be perfect.

Strive.

 

[Claire Rousseau]

He is God and i am not.

You must realize there is power in your thoughts and words... and when you think and speak that you will never be sin free then you probably won't.

I must speak up when Christians think that Christ will excuse their sins just because they believe in Him.

Do you obey the Ten Commandments ? If so you're doing quite right...

I think you missed the point.

And God isn’t just excusing my sins, I believe that Jesus Christ has already PAID for my sins, with His own sinless blood, on my behalf. THAT is why I’m saved, not by anything I did, because there is NOTHING I CAN DO to cleanse my sin.

But I have faith that Jesus paid it all for me.

Yes, I try my very best to follow God’s commands but do I commit sin?

Yes. I would be lying if I said I do not. Am I happy about it? Never. It is grievous.

The Bible says even the THOUGHT of foolishness is sin. Having even a foolish THOUGHT is a sin!

Does that mean I just give up trying and turn grace into lasciviousness? No.

 

[Daciple]

You tell me what His commandments are.

I asked you first, are you not able to define the Commandments of Jesus? He is very explicit as to what His Commandments are, Ill give you a hint John reiterates them in his epistles.

You tell me what He is saying.

Change your mind about who He is says He is and believe the Gospel that He is preaching, you know exactly the same thing as Peter and Paul tell others when they ask how can they be saved:

Acts 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Now you sound like a snake.

No I dont sound like a snake, I am simply bringing out the Truth which you refuse to admit to...

Gal 4:16 Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

You tell me what Jesus is saying.

You state it correctly at the end of your post, STRIVE, but does striving mean we actually are Perfect?

Are you literally going to cut your hand off or pluck out your eye? You even said jk to that, why?

The fact is while we are too do our best to Strive for perfection, you are lying if you say that you have attained it, or that in order to be saved one must attain perfection.

And of course THAT is something you wont address, are you Perfect in your Flesh Toki? Does one need to BE Perfect in their Flesh to attain Salvation?

Now dodge the questions...

You being sure that i sin will probably do you no good.

No but it will do you good to be honest, I can assure you that...

In front of God you plot to point on me as your defence for continued sinning ?

Nope, all my downfalls are my own doing, I definitely wont be using the he did it or he was worse defense. This is again what I see as you vs me, at least in ideology if not in substance:

Luke 18:9 And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:
10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

My defense in all things relating to Sin is, God be merciful to me a sinner. The way you come across and the doctrine you seem to teach is, stand before God and list how Perfect you were in your "Sinlessness" trusting in yourself that you are righteous. I think Jesus tells us clearly which one goes away justified...

The crimes that we committed before we came to Christ are blotted out by His blood.

No Toki, ALL SIN has been blotted out by His blood, every single bit of it, that is completely wrong doctrine to say or infer that our Sins AFTER coming to Christ are NOT covered by His blood. All Sins for all people have fully been covered by the Blood, and it is applied when one accepts Him. Period...

Now we are no longer supposed to sin.

We are to be perfect.

Strive.

I understand this and not once has anyone said different, however you started the conversation saying one must Repent aka Turn from all their Sin, literally be Perfect before attaining Salvation. Thats False Doctrine, you are also trying to tell others they can NOT nor would NOT ever Sin if they were Saved which again is False Doctrine.

We strive but we all fall short, that is literally the Bible:

Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

John understands and is saying exactly what I and every other Christian on this site is saying, we strive to not Sin, to Sin Not, but clearly he and we all understand that we fall short of the Glory of God and thus Sin, but thank you Jesus that if/when we do Sin we have Jesus to be the advocate before the Father, and because He JESUS is Righteous we are given Grace thru Him by Faith...

It is like you dont truly understand the Gospel bro...

Now why do I have a feeling you wont address any of the direct questions posed to you? Just like all the other posts when I ask you directly to answer a question, now dodge them all bud...

 

[TokiEl]

I think you missed the point.

And God isn’t just excusing my sins, I believe that Jesus Christ has already PAID for my sins, with His own sinless blood, on my behalf. THAT is why I’m saved, not by anything I did, because there is NOTHING I CAN DO to cleanse my sin.

And this thinking is why most modern Christians go on sinning... because they think since they believe in Jesus Christ that they are forgiven their sins no matter what. And so we got this problem with lying stealing cheating "Christians".

Christians who are no different from the world... but think they are since they believe in Jesus Christ.

 

[TokiEl]

I asked you first, are you not able to define the Commandments of Jesus? He is very explicit as to what His Commandments are, Ill give you a hint John reiterates them in his epistles.

Jesus said obey His commandments... and you say don't bother.

Change your mind about who He is says He is and believe the Gospel that He is preaching, you know exactly the same thing as Peter and Paul tell others when they ask how can they be saved:

Jesus said sin no more... and you say no sin more.

No I dont sound like a snake, I am simply bringing out the Truth which you refuse to admit to...

Jesus said He is the Truth... and you say you brought Him out and copy pasted Him here...?

You state it correctly at the end of your post, STRIVE, but does striving mean we actually are Perfect?

Jesus said be perfect... and you say you will probably never be perfect.

Are you literally going to cut your hand off or pluck out your eye? You even said jk to that, why?

The fact is while we are too do our best to Strive for perfection, you are lying if you say that you have attained it, or that in order to be saved one must attain perfection.

And of course THAT is something you wont address, are you Perfect in your Flesh Toki? Does one need to BE Perfect in their Flesh to attain Salvation?

Now dodge the questions...

Dodget it. Do not worry about me man. That will do you no good.

Nope, all my downfalls are my own doing, I definitely wont be using the he did it or he was worse defense. This is again what I see as you vs me, at least in ideology if not in substance:

Luke 18:9 And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:
10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

As if you sound anything like the publican lol. You gave me a big L0L.



You deserve another finalcall clip.

 

[Daciple]

Jesus said obey His commandments... and you say don't bother.

I obey His Commandments you obviously dont know what they are considering you cant name them...

Jesus said sin no more... and you say no sin more.

Now you are a liar, that is a Sin, I never said go Sin more.

Jesus said be perfect... and you say you will probably never be perfect.

I wont be perfect until I am given the new body that isnt inherently sinful. I guess you want to call Paul a liar, go for it...

Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Paul gets it, you lie and say you are perfect, which of course is a sin my man...

Dodget it

Of course you dodge it, you always have and always will because you know you are not perfect and Sin everyday, but wont admit it cuz of an internet debate to save face and pride.

As if you sound anything like the publican lol. You gave me a big L0L.

Really? Every single post has been all about how I am not worthy of Christ, how I fall into Sin and that I rely on Christ and HIS Perfection for Justification. What exactly is different between what I am saying and what the Publican said? Can you actually answer? I am a sinner God show me Mercy, I look to Jesus who offers me Mercy. Your posts are I am Perfect, I dont Sin and the only reason I am saved is because I dont Sin. Sounds an awful lot like the Pharisees to me, but hey if you dont think so, then so be it...

You deserve another finalcall clip.

Well I cant watch it and if thats the same guy my fellow Christian Bother floss said was a false teacher I am good, I dont need to watch from the teachers you are getting your ideologies from...

 

[Claire Rousseau]

And this thinking is why most modern Christians go on sinning... because they think since they believe in Jesus Christ that they are forgiven their sins no matter what. And so we got this problem with lying stealing cheating "Christians".

Christians who are no different from the world... but think they are since they believe in Jesus Christ.

You still don’t get it.
It isn’t just because I believe IN Jesus that I’m saved. It is because I am putting ALL MY FAITH in what He DID to atone for my sins.

Meaning, I really BELIEVE that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, Who came down here over 2,000 years ago, lived a perfect, sinless life, then willingly laid down that sinless life to pay for the sins of the whole world, which includes me.

I really BELIEVE that the shedding of His blood washes away my sins—-past, present and future—so I am blameless before God. I really believe that Jesus died, was buried & 3 days later, He was raised, bodily , from the dead and showed Himself alive before ascending to Heaven to sit down at the right hand of God the Father. ..and that likewise God will raise me up too.

My puny good works are like filthy rags before God, and will never suffice to get me to Heaven. It is ONLY because Jesus Christ paid my debt of sin to purchase my soul from Hell (which I deserve) that saved me.

NOTHING ELSE.

When you TRUST Jesus paid it all and ask for His payment God will give it to you, and you will KNOW that instant that you just became SAVED.

You CANNOT LOSE IT, because you are sealed forever & given the Holy Spirit as earnest of your salvation.

But you MUST put ALL your faith in what Christ did.

How do I know all my faith is in Christ?

Because I do not have a “Plan B”.
Let’s Say for example, hypothetically, the Gospel isn’t true (obviously I know it is, because I am saved by it) and you cannot know if you are saved before you die....

I stand before God and He asks me why He should let me in.,.....I would not say it is because I followed His commandments, or got baptized or went to church , etc...

My ONLY answer would be: “Because your Son, Jesus Christ, died & paid for my sins with His precious blood on the Cross, was buried & on the third day was resurrected bodily, and you promised that if I believe that and trust in the finished work of Jesus Christ, that I will be saved from Hell. And you know my heart God , and you know I believe it.”

That’s it.

And if I was wrong, I will be damned to Hell, because EVERY BIT of faith I have is on the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Jesus is my only hope.

Works CANNOT save you, Toki.

 

[TokiEl]

You still don’t get it.
It isn’t just because I believe IN Jesus that I’m saved. It is because I am putting ALL MY FAITH in what He DID to atone for my sins.

Meaning, I really BELIEVE that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, Who came down here over 2,000 years ago, lived a perfect, sinless life, then willingly laid down that sinless life to pay for the sins of the whole world, which includes me.

I really BELIEVE that the shedding of His blood washes away my sins—-past, present and future—so I am blameless before God. I really believe that Jesus died, was buried & 3 days later, He was raised, bodily , from the dead and showed Himself alive before ascending to Heaven to sit down at the right hand of God the Father. ..and that likewise God will raise me up too.

My puny good works are like filthy rags before God, and will never suffice to get me to Heaven. It is ONLY because Jesus Christ paid my debt of sin to purchase my soul from Hell (which I deserve) that saved me.

NOTHING ELSE.

When you TRUST Jesus paid it all and ask for His payment God will give it to you, and you will KNOW that instant that you just became SAVED.

You CANNOT LOSE IT, because you are sealed forever & given the Holy Spirit as earnest of your salvation.

But you MUST put ALL your faith in what Christ did.

How do I know all my faith is in Christ?

Because I do not have a “Plan B”.
Let’s Say for example, hypothetically, the Gospel isn’t true (obviously I know it is, because I am saved by it) and you cannot know if you are saved before you die....

I stand before God and He asks me why He should let me in.,.....I would not say it is because I followed His commandments, or got baptized or went to church , etc...

My ONLY answer would be: “Because your Son, Jesus Christ, died & paid for my sins with His precious blood on the Cross, was buried & on the third day was resurrected bodily, and you promised that if I believe that and trust in the finished work of Jesus Christ, that I will be saved from Hell. And you know my heart God , and you know I believe it.”

That’s it.

And if I was wrong, I will be damned to Hell, because EVERY BIT of faith I have is on the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Jesus is my only hope.

Works CANNOT save you, Toki.

Don't you think homosexual Christians and adulterer Christians and mega rich pastors fleecing the flock Christians etc etc believe what you do ?

They think they are saved because they really really believe in or put all their faith in what Jesus Christ did to atone for their sins.

And so modern Christendom has become a circus of Christian clowns saved sealed and sinning their way into eternal damnation.




God: "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." 1 John 3:9

The Devil: You got to give me something to work on here.

God: Alright... "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." 1 John 1:8