"your God Is No Different"

[JoChris]

From previous comments:

And I don't need to make another thread when I've made the point already...your God is no different..before you talk about this "problem" with Islam you need to man the hell up and question the God of the bible who's far more brutal.

I didn't think I would actually see a self-professed Muslim use a standard anti-theist's tactic. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethics_in_the_Bible#God.27s_benevolence
You do remember Muslims frequently claim** that Muslims follow the same God as the Jews and the Christians don't you? If you follow Allah, aren't you following the bible as well AS WELL as the Quran/ Quran + other Islamic writings (depending on sect)?

-----
**some liberal denominations including Catholic church do believe Muslims have same God, bible-believing Christians DON'T

 

[AspiringSoul]

Yes I believe in the God of the Old Testament too


Buuut
I also believe Yahweh was a collective thought form. I believe Islam has one too.

So my views are pretty complex. I was calling you out on the flaws in your own argument and you love not given us an accurate view on the Old Testament laws ie it is not enough just to say "oh we don't do that now" because That doesn't absolve the fact God did make those laws before.

Btw I also believe Jesus is going to fulfill the Quran in the same way He fulfilled the Torah...and you know how that played out.

 

[manama]

From previous comments:

I didn't think I would actually see a self-professed Muslim use a standard anti-theist's tactic. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethics_in_the_Bible#God.27s_benevolence
You do remember Muslims frequently claim** that Muslims follow the same God as the Jews and the Christians don't you? If you follow Allah, aren't you following the bible as well AS WELL as the Quran/ Quran + other Islamic writings (depending on sect)?

-----
**some liberal denominations including Catholic church do believe Muslims have same God, bible-believing Christians DON'T

to be a muslim we have to believe in a few things first
-God
-the angels
-the scriptures (Quran, Bible/Gospel, Torah etc)
-The Prophets
-The Day of Judgment
-Life after Death
-Fate/Destiny

But when it comes to "following" we follow Prophet Muhammad (S.a.w) and the Quran. Just like how after coming of Jesus Christ and Bible, Christians no longer "follow" Torah and Moses p.b.u.h

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

A while ago, I had a very clear thought on the subject (unusual for me!)

I know who I am, and those that know me increase in their relationship and knowledge of me as time goes on. I know other people who show a kind of 'over familiarity' with me presuming to know me, my likes, dislikes and moral values. I don't like these people quite so much as they pretend to know me but really don't.

Without attempting to preach at anyone, I just wanted to say that if God us real and if he wants us to know him, he would need to reach into our world and reveal himself to us.

Muslims, Jews and Christians all hold the same view of a Creator God, and see that we are fallen and need to be restored in our relationship to him.

Where we depart from each other is that we each have a different view what God requires of us in order to restore that relationship and be made ready to stand before him.

I pray for love and respect for one another in their sincere search on this thread, and that we should all come closer to the knowledge of the character of God.

Of course, to anyone who reads this and thinks the whole discussion is moot because they watched Zeitgeist, I can recommend an alternative view...

 

[GreenTea]

The word "Allah" just means "God" in Arabic. The word "Yahweh" just means God in Hebrew. Jesus of Nazareth is the name and title of a person and does not translate into a meaning. The closest thing to "Allah" or "Yahweh" in the Bible would be God the Father.

 

[DisenfranchisedDespot]

To put it simply as possible, Muslims essentially believe in a third testament as revealed by the prophet Muhammad, no?

The worship the same God yet in a different manner than their supposed predecessors but I would imagine it's quite possible that there are those that believe the God of the Torah to be different or evil. Christian Gnostics(some , Valentinian) believe that the Father and Elohim are two separate entities.

Tell me if I am incorrect though. Since when has Wikipedia become credible?

 

[GreenTea]

If by "third testament" you mean Quran then yes. Don't think Muslims think that other "Gods" are evil. Atleast through my understanding, all titles of God refer to the same being. And I think both religions have similar prayers? Though I could be wrong on this one (someone educate me?). Neither do I know what Christian Gnostics even mean or what they believe in.

Annnddd this is not the post I quoted wiki on I do admit that wiki is not credible in that it can be edited by anyone but it IS most people's go to place for quick info. Obviously by questioning forum members, I'm open to first hand primary info that may contradict wiki. So enlighten me?

 

[DisenfranchisedDespot]

If by "third testament" you mean Quran then yes. Don't think Muslims think that other "Gods" are evil. Atleast through my understanding, all titles of God refer to the same being. And I think both religions have similar prayers? Though I could be wrong on this one (someone educate me?). Neither do I know what Christian Gnostics even mean or what they believe in.

Annnddd this is not the post I quoted wiki on I do admit that wiki is not credible in that it can be edited by anyone but it IS most people's go to place for quick info. Obviously by questioning forum members, I'm open to first hand primary info that may contradict wiki. So enlighten me?

I wasn't replying to you. Apologies for the misunderstanding.

 

[GreenTea]

I wasn't replying to you. Apologies for the misunderstanding.

I'm sorry too!

 

[Lisa]

From previous comments:

I didn't think I would actually see a self-professed Muslim use a standard anti-theist's tactic. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethics_in_the_Bible#God.27s_benevolence
You do remember Muslims frequently claim** that Muslims follow the same God as the Jews and the Christians don't you? If you follow Allah, aren't you following the bible as well AS WELL as the Quran/ Quran + other Islamic writings (depending on sect)?

-----
**some liberal denominations including Catholic church do believe Muslims have same God, bible-believing Christians DON'T

I don't think that you can really classify catholicism as a denomination, it is a false religion with a gospel that is counter to the Bible and is no denomination.

 

[Lisa]

So my views are pretty complex.

Not really, you think they are but they really aren't, you over think everything and then call it complex.

 

[GreenTea]

@Lisa you show a lot of contempt towards people who allegedly follow the same book as you do. I dunno what kind of person you might be IRL but you're clearly an extremist online. It's mindsets like those above that divide humanity and turn them against one another.

 

[DisenfranchisedDespot]

@Lisa you show a lot of contempt towards people who allegedly follow the same book as you do. I dunno what kind of person you might be IRL but you're clearly an extremist online. It's mindsets like those above that divide humanity and turn them against one another.

She's just your typical mainstream Christian ignorant of what she is even trying to spread. She has always been like this.

 

[Lisa]

@Lisa you show a lot of contempt towards people who allegedly follow the same book as you do. I dunno what kind of person you might be IRL but you're clearly an extremist online. It's mindsets like those above that divide humanity and turn them against one another.

I don't think I do. Think of it like this....there's a large sinkhole in the road ahead, I saw it and know about it and I'm trying to warn everyone about it. However, other people think they know that there is no sinkhole that way and decide that I'm an extremist or ignorant and decided to continue on. I can't make them stop and turnaround, but hopefully I could make them think about it and wonder if there really is a sinkhole up ahead and maybe they will turnaround....That's all I'm doing.

So, you unite...and then what? Everything is better? You all still will be thrown into the lake of fire...what did that accomplish?

 

[Lisa]

She's just your typical mainstream Christian ignorant of what she is even trying to spread. She has always been like this.

Lol, at least I'm consistent

 

[AspiringSoul]

Not really, you think they are but they really aren't, you over think everything and then call it complex.

you don't have any knowledge so whatever.

 

[Thunderian]

Just like how after coming of Jesus Christ and Bible, Christians no longer "follow" Torah and Moses p.b.u.h

Christians never followed the Torah or Moses. There were no Christians before Jesus Christ came, died and rose again.

 

[Lisa]

you don't have any knowledge so whatever.

Actually, I do have knowledge, the true knowledge, the knowledge that saves.

 

[AspiringSoul]

"consistent"
How does a Christian explain the brutality of God?

By telling us "we do longer do it"
Jesus knew the jewish rabbis were too corrupt and were falsely accusing people/killing whoever they liked. He meant it was no longer applicable to practice the Torah law IN THAT context. Similarly in the muslim countries this is happening, so I tend to agree with the thinking of Jesus ie I know it is stupid and pointless to want the death penalty in most cases.

Basically my view is consistent, the modern christian view is just downright ignorant.



Romans 2
26 God let them follow their own evil desires. Women no longer wanted to have sex in a natural way, and they did things with each other that were not natural. 27 Men behaved in the same way. They stopped wanting to have sex with women and had strong desires for sex with other men. They did shameful things with each other, and what has happened to them is punishment for their foolish deeds.

28 Since these people refused even to think about God, he let their useless minds rule over them. That’s why they do all sorts of indecent things. 29 They are evil, wicked, and greedy, as well as mean in every possible way. They want what others have, and they murder, argue, cheat, and are hard to get along with. They gossip, 30 say cruel things about others, and hate God. They are proud, conceited, and boastful, always thinking up new ways to do evil.

These people don’t respect their parents. 31 They are stupid, unreliable, and don’t have any love or pity for others. 32 They know God has said that anyone who acts this way deserves to die. But they keep on doing evil things, and they even encourage others to do them.


and of course you can't claim Jesus died for your sins and therefore this is n/a givenwhat it says in Jude 1 and throughout Revelation.
The only difference here is that Jesus didn't trust the jewish rabbis with the law of God, he never said the Law was wrong/immoral.

 

[Lisa]

"consistent"
How does a Christian explain the brutality of God?

By telling us "we do longer do it"
Jesus knew the jewish rabbis were too corrupt and were falsely accusing people/killing whoever they liked. He meant it was no longer applicable to practice the Torah law IN THAT context. Similarly in the muslim countries this is happening, so I tend to agree with the thinking of Jesus ie I know it is stupid and pointless to want the death penalty in most cases.

Basically my view is consistent, the modern christian view is just downright ignorant.



Romans 2
26 God let them follow their own evil desires. Women no longer wanted to have sex in a natural way, and they did things with each other that were not natural. 27 Men behaved in the same way. They stopped wanting to have sex with women and had strong desires for sex with other men. They did shameful things with each other, and what has happened to them is punishment for their foolish deeds.

28 Since these people refused even to think about God, he let their useless minds rule over them. That’s why they do all sorts of indecent things. 29 They are evil, wicked, and greedy, as well as mean in every possible way. They want what others have, and they murder, argue, cheat, and are hard to get along with. They gossip, 30 say cruel things about others, and hate God. They are proud, conceited, and boastful, always thinking up new ways to do evil.

These people don’t respect their parents. 31 They are stupid, unreliable, and don’t have any love or pity for others. 32 They know God has said that anyone who acts this way deserves to die. But they keep on doing evil things, and they even encourage others to do them.


and of course you can't claim Jesus died for your sins and therefore this is n/a givenwhat it says in Jude 1 and throughout Revelation.
The only difference here is that Jesus didn't trust the jewish rabbis with the law of God, he never said the Law was wrong/immoral.

Jesus fulfilled the law by living a perfect life which is why He could die for our sins.
Edits- and what I mean by the perfect life is obedience to God the Father.