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bengaminrdx

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Hi, quick message

1. When discussing religious beliefs, it is important to use logic and to not let emotion cloud your judgement. Humans should use what we have in common (logic) to come to a conclusion.

DO NOT use emotive words or propositions " you suck", "scum", "dumb"
DO NOT use generalisations as an argument, eg; ISIS kills innocents, therefore Islam .....

2. Let not petty religious disagreements distract us from our common knowledge that the Goal of the Illuminati is to eradicate all religious beliefs and to create a complete secular world.

Christians, Muslims, Jew's, Hindus, etc, All believe in God and have that in common, and our common enemy is stripping us from the blessing of faith in God, Religious adherents should work together to resist the enemy.

Peace
 

Etagloc

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What does logic have to do with the spiritual?

I am not going to debate or explain.

But the epistemology of Western materialist science is no way to know spiritual matters.

You don't approach the spiritual through math.

Nor do you write poetry confined in the boundaries of physics. Poetry is to take you beyond physics. "I know a place... I'll take you there."

"Beyond the walls of intelligence, life is defined" -Nas
 

Etagloc

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In fact, let us not even denounce emotion.

It is the suppression of emotion and intuition that makes Western culture grey and flavorless,

it is the suppression of natural instinct that allows Western culture to become so alienated from what is normal and natural...

forget what your gut tells you- that is what opens the doors for the contemporary decadence.

Forget "logic". Embrace intuition and higher knowing. Pure reason and logic is a ladder too short to reach heaven.
 

Fl-Fr-Fa

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Hi, quick message

1. When discussing religious beliefs, it is important to use logic and to not let emotion cloud your judgement. Humans should use what we have in common (logic) to come to a conclusion.

DO NOT use emotive words or propositions " you suck", "scum", "dumb"
DO NOT use generalisations as an argument, eg; ISIS kills innocents, therefore Islam .....

2. Let not petty religious disagreements distract us from our common knowledge that the Goal of the Illuminati is to eradicate all religious beliefs and to create a complete secular world.

Christians, Muslims, Jew's, Hindus, etc, All believe in God and have that in common, and our common enemy is stripping us from the blessing of faith in God, Religious adherents should work together to resist the enemy.

Peace
I haven't planned to comment much in the Religious section but your title caught my eye, for sure.

Skipping to point #2 first, I really don't know what the global plan is as far as spirituality is concerned. We can speculate certainly, depending on certain religious ideas and/or our ideas. But if we take a moment to ponder, yes, they definitely want to muddy the waters and tell us what beliefs are "acceptable" - how that would look remains a mystery yet . . . the goal being their version of "one world". Further, as much as the system seems so strong, the "enemy" is really us trying to figure it out - this is even a challenge for myself, but ultimately the peace of God is found in resting in Him. God just is. He/She [not "it" in my understanding, that's too impersonal :)] is Truth and needs no justification. The paradox though is that our (me included!!) weaknesses sometimes want to cling to a methodology or system for awhile, which is fine - use it to our heart's content to help us experience the depths of God until we're ready to give it up [or not] in this life or the next. God isn't limited with our limitations - He can use anything (including our limitations) to speak to us, and His fullness can be seen anywhere, if only we'd take a moment to look . . .

So for point #1, logic is important, but we can't leave our hearts out of it either (at least in our experience) - I can see though that trying not to be too heated in discussions is always wise! Children are more intuitive as they enter into the world, and they repress it unfortunately because we push logic on them. We can use both. We can use logic as needed in our daily lives, but it can also be used in the abstract, though it may not be linear. True science does prove spirituality and true spirituality does prove science. There is no separation. If God is Life, then that means all life [that's logical], and all life means us and the rest of creation; yeah, including the silly dictators who try to wield their supposed authority.

. . . from my wee perspective of God's "one world" :cool:
 

Etagloc

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I seriously doubt that people are going to convert to a religion over a "mathematical proof of God". People convert to religions for spiritual reasons. Even if someone was actually convinced by a "mathematical proof of God", it would only be be because it gave them validation in the direction where they were already headed.

Regardless of your "mathematical proof of God," a relationship with God is through your heart, not through logic or math. We truly live in a dark age if people have forgotten that.
 

Thunderian

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I seriously doubt that people are going to convert to a religion over a "mathematical proof of God". People convert to religions for spiritual reasons. Even if someone was actually convinced by a "mathematical proof of God", it would only be be because it gave them validation in the direction where they were already headed.

Regardless of your "mathematical proof of God," a relationship with God is through your heart, not through logic or math. We truly live in a dark age if people have forgotten that.
 

bengaminrdx

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No math involved, just logic guys, we use logic daily in our daily actions.

Example being the miracles the Prophets performed to prove the existence of GOD, by logic no ordinary human being can revive the dead therefore that leads to a different answer, through the help of GOD the dead is revived, therefore proving the existince of GOD
 

Etagloc

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True science does prove spirituality and true spirituality does prove science

^^^^this^^^^
But proving stuff or not proving stuff is not spirituality. "Math proofs of God" is not spirituality.

That's debating. That's using the logical part of your mind.

We are truly living in a dark age where people have totally lost touch with their innate spirituality.

You cannot debate someone into being spiritual. You can possibly debate someone into accepting a set of beliefs.

But spirituality is not believing or not believing in a set of beliefs!

If you want to want to get closer to God, go walk in nature. Stand by the ocean.

You don't access your intuitive connection with God through the logical part of your mind. When you pray, you don't pray in the same mind-state as when you're debating someone or solving math problems.

When you are using logic, you are using a totally different form of consciousness than when you are praying.

Are you going to pray looking at God the way you look at a chess opponent?

You cannot pray in the same mind-set as when you do math or play chess. You're not there to debate with God. You are there to be an antennae, to be receptivie, to be open to God.

You don't make love with your clothes on! You turn off the logical part of your mind and enter a more receptive state of mind. If you're Muslim, for example, you don't make salat in a logical state of mind. You have to enter a state of receptivity. It is an intimate union between yourself and what is highest. Logic can debate external religious matters and doctrine but logic cannot enter the essence of spirituality.

If logic is God, then we are lower than robots and computers, as they can beat us at chess and are more capable of logic.

People need to be more like children and learn to value intuition and imagination. The world is already designed to turn us into robots, we should be against that trend, not internalizing it.
 

Etagloc

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People are parroting society's materialistic conditioning. Our task is not to be parrots of social engineering and conditioning. Our task is to destroy. Our task is to break out of conditioning. Our task is to destroy the present systems of thinking and build new ones. The more we are in line with this, the more that we belong to the future. The more that we protect the status quo... the worse it will be when the status quo sinks and whatever is in the process of emerging arises. Leave the sinking ship. It deserves to sink, don't sink with it.

 

bengaminrdx

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We are truly living in a dark age where people have totally lost touch with their innate spirituality.

You cannot debate someone into being spiritual. You can possibly debate someone into accepting a set of beliefs.

But spirituality is not believing or not believing in a set of beliefs!

If you want to want to get closer to God, go walk in nature. Stand by the ocean.
The Illuminati have destroyed spirituality Etagloc, for you i see spirituality is strong and for many on these forms spirituality is strong, but to guide others who have no spiritual, we need to work with them in what is common "logic", and funny to say most people today have no logic. You cannot simply tell someone to go and meditate or look at the sea, you need to work step by step.

Look at how the Illuminati destroyed civilisation and the world, they started in 1776 and slowly, ( very slowly ), so to guide people who have been corrupted which is 95% of the people, Etagloc we need to counter the tactics they have used, and to do that takes time.

Spirituality is destroyed, for those who are weak in faith they need to know whats happening to regain faith and spirituality, and our role is to help them know whats happening BUT slowly slowly
 

Etagloc

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The Illuminati have destroyed spirituality Etagloc, for you i see spirituality is strong and for many on these forms spirituality is strong, but to guide others who have no spiritual, we need to work with them in what is common "logic", and funny to say most people today have no logic. You cannot simply tell someone to go and meditate or look at the sea, you need to work step by step.

Look at how the Illuminati destroyed civilisation and the world, they started in 1776 and slowly, ( very slowly ), so to guide people who have been corrupted which is 95% of the people, Etagloc we need to counter the tactics they have used, and to do that takes time.

Spirituality is destroyed, for those who are weak in faith they need to know whats happening to regain faith and spirituality, and our role is to help them know whats happening BUT slowly slowly
I feel you and I appreciate what you say.

Logic does play a role. I would say that people do have logic. When it comes to looking out for what's in their immediate, short-term interest, it amazes me how logical people are. The masses are selectively dumb. They have an awareness of what's going on but deliberately keep that awareness suppressed in their unconscious- because they don't want to be responsible. They would rather not know so.... I'm not sure why. That part is absolutely not logical and totally baffles me. People will hate you if you try to seek knowledge and they hate knowledge. They would rather be ignorant. But I think because they believe that ignorance will somehow justify their behavior... maybe there is something disturbed in their conscience- they don't want to stand up to the elites. And it just utterly baffles me because you don't have to stand on the sidewalk with a sign announcing "the end is near" or start a political movement or anything like that. I certainly don't do those things. But if you get a certain amount of knowledge, you can apply it in your life.

Sometimes I question what is the point of trying to learn things, being as the people in general just don't seem to learn. I grew up really admiring Huey from the Boondocks and I remember an episode where he said basically the same thing.

But the answer to that question is... having the nerve to break out of society's conditioning and following your own line of independent thinking (but that line of thinking of course, actually flowing from a higher source- your mind following your heart, rather than your heart being controlled by your mind; and necessarily your heart being purified so that it can be tuned into the higher frequencies and be a proper source of guidance) is not about finding a new way of thinking that will rule the masses or anything like that.... that is the ideal of philosophy and that is why Lao Tzu and Plato both sought to make philosophy in charge of governments...

but that is merely an ideal. Figure out your own independent way of thinking and you can simply apply it where you do have some control- whether you're a president or a regular person.

For example, I had a person talk to me about fluoride and I learned how to get non-fluoridated water.

It baffles me why people are scared to really investigate things and it shows that you're right, that people are not using logic.

They use a certain amount of very basic logic for self-gratification but there are certain areas where people conditioned not to think logically and to simply accept what they're told to believe.

I suppose the three stages would be

1) Ignorance (COUGHCOUGHpeoplebelievingthejunkontvCOUGHCOUGH)

2) Logic (wow.... the official 9/11 story really doesn't add up.... wait.... what is this about MK-Ultra? Hmm....)

3) Spirituality (realizing that the elites are engineering humanity to become alienated from their most basic and natural humanity and their innate connection to God, seeing the insanity of materialism, and then working to rebuilding their connection with God through Islam, Christianity, or whatever their form of spirituality)

But then..... spirituality, whatever form it takes- I'm not going to be someone who says "this is the correct form and you're wrong if you don't follow my form"- and logic should be working in unison.

Right now people are programmed to think "religion is not scientific" and so either are flat-out atheists or claim to believe in God while actually being incredibly double-minded.

People have internalized this bizarre ideology that science is the measure of all things and it's actually not logical at all. People don't have belief because it's logical but because school conditions people to think that way. If people were conditioned another way, maybe they would be conditioned into believing poetry or geometry is the measure of all things and would judge everything based on principles relating to poetry or geometry.

Once people have left behind the dominant ideology and their usage of logic is less warped, then their spiritual and logical faculties can work in harmony in unison.
 

Fl-Fr-Fa

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The article is interesting.

The idea of "should believe in God", I think, may be better worded as "being open to the possibility".
But then, how can one be open (especially if they have had no major spiritual experience prior) if they don't want to be open? The question then becomes, "what is the effect of forcing anything, in this case - a belief".
Could we almost see a belief as a bunch of matter [I do wonder in science, if that's the case or will be found as such] and without anything to hold it together, what is it really? And when a belief comes to life, when it means something to the one believing, and also knowing that beliefs are limited in themselves --> does this change anything: change the person and maybe his life for the better? or increase the chances of experiencing God?

Is being open to the possibility being spiritual itself, or at least philosophical?
Where does the life in the belief come from - from inside the individual, or from God [whether through some direct intervention or the idea of synchronicity --> when the person is ready at the perfect time].

I have a friend who had been athiest, who just "knew" there was no God and he told me how his friend's words had opened himself up to the possibility of God. It basically went like this:

- do you know 100% of everything that has/will ever exist (obviously, his answer was no)
- does it make sense with the part that you don't know, that God could exist in that part (he admitted, yes)
- so then, does that make you an agnostic (he answered, yes)
- if God existed, wouldn't you want to have an experience with Him, especially if He was a loving God (he answered, yes :))

So basically, it's allowing a thought [that initially gets your attention] to settle inside and then wear it for awhile --> see how it feels [if it doesn't feel right, there's a reason - see if it's only causing discomfort to your current belief system or is it really causing harm; see what questions arise; seek answers if you want to and can find those answers; or being willing to wait to put something on the shelf that just doesn't make sense until a "better" time possibly. Further allowing for the possibility that 'part' of the belief or belief system can be true and be of benefit. And also allowing for the possibility, that the answer may not come in one's lifetime.

It sounds like Pascal meant well with the whole idea, I'll give him that.
 

bengaminrdx

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With no doubt the masses have been conditioned to be robots, literally, through the education system, media, the music industry, drugs, sex, pornography and through all meduims.

Theyve taken away our inherent nature of spirtuality.

Theyve stripped the gift of critical thinking, and wired us to be "ignorant" and to only ask other's (media, professor's) for information.

In general they have re wired us in all matters through all meduims.

Now once a vigilant citizen understand's this, he should counter these tactics. Basically to change your whole lifestyle, "re wire ourselves to human nature".

Now this is where "the vigilant" idealogy splits up into different classes:

1.
One may understand how to counter the tactics and he/she will implement lifestyle changes, but they will stop there. They wont complete their role in guiding the people because:

1. Of the difficulty to literally rewire their beloved ones.

2. They are focusing on themselves.

3. Of the rejection they will receive from the people.

4. Of the notion that it is too "far fetched" to aid in a revolutionary idealogy.

* explained shortly*

2.
The citizen who understands the tactics the elite have used, implent changes in their lifestyle and attempt to guide people, but their method is wrong. ( those who try to guide through the wrong meduims and try to hurry to guide people)

explained in detail shortly


3. The citizen who understands the tactics, counters in within their own lifestyle and uses the appropriate method in guiding people sincerly.

This is where everyone should aim to be. The Question is
What are the appropriate methods?

explained shortly

4. The one who understands, implements changes, guides people with the correct or incorrect method, BUT slightly aims for fame and attention for the work he has put in.

These are the people of the "vigilant ideology"

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Now to answer to each type of the ideology.


1. The excuse:

" of the difficulty to literally rewire their beloved ones"

One must understand why it is difficult to help them out.

Like you mentioned, Etagloc people choose to be sheep, its easier and requires no effort.

This is why you need to persude them to be vigilant.
And this persuasion should be slow and steady, because "change" cannot happen fast, especially a change in mentality.

Why should it be slow?

Because to "counter", you need to understand that peoples mentality have changed slowly, and naturally the human mind will reject new ideas.

To persuade them to being a vigilant you need psychological knowledge. Like how the Illuminati used psychology to re wire us, we must do the same.

If i were to detail on this it will be a whole book.

I myself am continually researching methods on how to influence the way one thinks.

Once the persuasion is complete, the person himself will research the truth. And i re emphasise the persuasion will vary person to person. For some itll be easy, others itll take time, for some unfortunately they will not return to humam nature, the elite have full control over them.

2. They are guided but will not guide others.

This may happen for a number of reasons:

1. They think they are not knowledgeable enough.
This is just a delusion, they can teach what they know even if it is so little.
Like what you mentioned Etagloc about your friend telling you about fluoridated water.

2.No confidence to speak to people and/or fear of rejection.
One must work slowly on people to change their mentality, If they start like: "Modern Society is constructed by an elite organisation", with no doubt people will reject.
An ideal start is: "Why would the government fluoridate water when the health implications have been scientifically confirmed"

Anchor your conversation to his/her's response.

3."myself myself" or too lazy to elaborate to others.
One may say i need to take care of myself, survival.
This person needs a spirtual awakening, and return to the human nature in helping others. Etagloc this is where you may detail on this

4. The notion the it is too "far fetched to aid in a revolutionary ideology"

This justification is valid to some extent, one may say, "Ah look at Marx, Che, Gandhi and others" they revolutionised, why is it hard for us to.
It is hard because we are not supporting each other, we are not communicating, most of the time we always want to be right and argue and dispute. But as an individual, make progress on a micro level (your family and friends), then get into contact with influential people, work with them, spread the ideology through popular mediums. And then other influential people will pick up on the ideology, and it will spread.
The reason why Marx succeeded is because of his connection to powerful people, (Freemasons, *cough* Illuminati).
The reason why Che succeed is because he inspired a new mentality into people, same with all the others, in starts in the mind then it branches out to our actions.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


2.

The citizen who understands the tactics the elite have used, implement changes in their lifestyle and attempt to guide people, but their method is wrong. ( those who try to guide through the wrong mediums and try to hurry to guide people)

This is better than the latter, the intention is right, but the method is wrong. A wrong method is attempting to implement fast change, this is not completely wrong however, other people can change quick, these people will see a poster exposing corruption, and follow up with the website printed on the poster.
However the majority are busy with their "donkey and carrot" lives chasing a delusion of wealth and fame, they have no time to enter one of these conspiracy related websites. A better method is to be used with them, and at this time i am still searching for the method. But it goes along the line of creating rapport, persuading them, and the rest takes care of itself.
Another method is creating a big incident or occasion which will no matter what grab peoples attention.

3. The citizen who understands the tactics, counters within their own lifestyle and uses the appropriate method in guiding people sincerely.

This section is very difficult. One is careful not to fall intro pride while preaching, and at the same time uses the mysterious appropriate method. (
PLEASE SHARE IDEAS).

4. The one who understands, implements changes, guides people with the correct or incorrect method, BUT slightly aims for fame and attention for the work he has put in.

Again Etagloc this is where spirituality is very important, one must guide people for Gods sake only, to avoid this mistake one needs to be spiritually strong.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That is where everything stands, time is running out, big events are yet to come.

Stay Vigilant








 

Yahda

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In getting to know God I'm finding God is a logical God, and in that logic is math and science. Growing up I envisioned God with a magic wand just abracadabraca things into existence.

In getting to know God I'm learning he formed, and created on a scientific mathematical level unimaginable. It may seem logical to us but the handy work that really takes place on so many levels, to say it's down to a science is a hell of an understatement.
 
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Fl-Fr-Fa

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Sorry guys, I don't know how to use the quote feature, i.e. that could help me put more than one quote in a single post, so I'll do it the hard way and make some select quotes from your earlier posts. I just don't want to make a bunch of posts.

Bengaminrdx:
True science does prove spirituality and true spirituality does prove science

Thank you. Maybe for Etagloc's benefit, I'll confirm what the rest of that post was saying:
adding the words --> "without trying or desperation"
All it's saying then is that Truth just is: true science, without trying/desperation, does prove spirituality, etc. It may take a little effort sometimes, but what's wrong with that? As long as there's inspiration, effort can be fun.

Etagloc:
We are truly living in a dark age where people have totally lost touch with their innate spirituality.
You cannot debate someone into being spiritual. You can possibly debate someone into accepting a set of beliefs.

I agree.

You don't access your intuitive connection with God through the logical part of your mind.
I'm not so sure about this. It may depend on how we define logic. This definition works, I think, from the Oxford dictionary:
A particular system or codification of the principles of proof and inference. ‘Aristotelian logic’
One example of how to apply this intuitively: If in my past experience I had found that a certain belief system just seemed the best choice for me (and thus, it becomes "coded" in a way), then I will continue to use that belief system until such time that I grow outside of those boundaries.

You're not there to debate with God.
He's a big guy, He can take it - though we might hinder ourselves from receiving Truth for awhile :); He's gonna wait until we're ready.

You are there to be an antennae, to be receptivie, to be open to God.
And hopefully, we are. But we are anyway - it's just how much 'stuff' is in-between His signals and us receiving it on the "other side"?

Bengaminrdx:
The Illuminati have destroyed spirituality Etagloc

I have to humbly say no to that. If God is God, then that can't [thankfully] be true. The world is dark, seemingly showing very minimal light at times, yes. How such darkness can exist [in the wholeness of God] remains a mystery to me, I do admit. Again, if nothing is ever separate from [the love of] God, we need to remember this for OUR inspiration and OUR life as long as we're here. I can see your kindness though in your words. We can be there for others, and always remembering, that we still don't know everything.

Etagloc:
They would rather not know so.... I'm not sure why. That part is absolutely not logical and totally baffles me.

Ah, but it is logical. Trauma . . . I am fully convinced that if we knew up to 100% truth on any matter [whatever percentage it takes], there is no obstacle in the way of us taking a better direction for ourselves. God works within our limits despite ourselves.

Your "three stages" - yep.

spiritual and logical faculties can work in harmony in unison.
Yay.

. . . believing poetry or geometry is the measure of all things . . .
To me, there is so much truth in that actually; I wrote a recent post to someone basically saying this. The micro and macro - in God, again, there is no separation. Just hopefully, we can remember it, otherwise, it can cause us grief. It's using the lens of one perspective, and letting as much Truth in as we can receive about everything else through that lens.

Perfect song choices btw.

I see now there are a couple of more posts to read . . . tomorrow . . . thank you both.
 

Etagloc

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You won't access higher states of consciousness through the logical part of your mind. I don't think beliefs are spirituality. I don't think thinking in a logical manner is spirituality. Deciding on a set of beliefs I do not think is spirituality.

We are capable of more and it is through a part of the mind that does not rely on logic.

For example, bridging the gap between your conscious and unconscious or entering nothingness, things like.... if you know what I'm talking about, you know what I'm talking about. If you don't, you don't. I don't want to discuss it. I don't care about debating.
 
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