Artful Revealer
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What are the names?God is not alone... and all have names... and God as well.
What are the names?God is not alone... and all have names... and God as well.
Exodus 3 13 Then Moses said to God, “Indeed, when I come to the children of Israel and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they say to me, ‘What is His name?’ what shall I say to them?”What are the names?
That is definitely the name of the One True God, and you asked why He has a name. Let me ask you this, is Jesus Divine? Is Jesus God?That's the name of a god, lowercase g. Not the God, uppercase G.
Christian doctrine 101: the hypostatic union. Jesus is both divine and human. Humans have names, therefore Jesus has a name.That is definitely the name of the One True God, and you asked why He has a name. Let me ask you this, is Jesus Divine? Is Jesus God?
Why does He have a name if He is the One True God?
That is the inherent flaw in your incorrect logic. Regardless of Jesus being identified as the Son, which is simply a method for us Humans to have some semblance of understanding the Relationship and Make up of God, since He is God Himself, Jesus shouldnt have a name, that is what your logic leads too.
Exodus 3 13 Then Moses said to Elohim, “Indeed, when I come to the children of Israel and say to them, ‘The Elohim of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they say to me, ‘What is His name?’ what shall I say to them?”Do I believe God name is YAHWEH etc.....It’s a no for me. Although I carry the title in my name it’s just that. Another title.
When “Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them,The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?”
God said unto Moses, “ I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. 15And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all”
He chose to be referenced as “ the God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob” Not because that was his name. IT’S WHO HE WAS, AM, IS
We also must consider that names do not change or translate. My name is my name in any part of the earth. I AM who I AM. It IS what it IS.
You ask why God gave His name, your logic is God shouldnt have a name (for some unknown reason), then logic precludes above all things, Jesus being God should not be named.Christian doctrine 101: the hypostatic union. Jesus is both divine and human. Humans have names, therefore Jesus has a name.
This basic syllogism shouldn't cause any problems ... normally.
The word shouldn't implies different things. The reasons why God doesn't have a name (known to us) has been mentioned, ie:You ask why God gave His name, your logic is God shouldnt have a name (for some unknown reason)
Except God DOES have a name known to us, He made it known to Moses specifically, thousands of years before Jesus came. Only YOU reject this, all Christians (which you are not) accept the Scriptures...The reasons why God doesn't have a name (known to us) has been mentioned, ie:
It is mentioned in Scriptures, its been quoted, and the Old Testament IS Christian Scriptures. Again it takes a special kind of Cognitive Dissonance to reject this. When Jesus quotes the Old Testament, when John quotes the Old Testament, when Paul quotes the Old Testament, when Peter quotes the Old Testament, its obvious that the Old Testament is Scripture.His name is not mentioned in the Gospels. Jesus is God, but Jesus is not the Father. The Father remains unnamed in all of Christian scripture.
Except Jesus is King, who has no equals and qualifies as God and yet He has a Personal Name. I mean seriously do you think that God Himself who literally created the concept of Names, can not give Himself a name? This is seriously the weakest argument I have ever seen from you and it is so easily rejected by any human with basic reading comprehension, because it is explained thoroughly in Scriptures. You know, what Paul said is God Breathed as Paul quotes CONSTANTLY from the Torah, aka the Books written by Moses about his God, YHWH.He is unique, He has no equals, He is the only one who qualifies as God with capital G. There is only one King in a Kingdom, therefore no personal name is required to identify Him.
And yet God who is capable of doing anything chose to answer Moses and identified Himself with a name that encompasses His Essence. Your argument is as silly as a Muslims argument that God wouldnt come as a man, well He has the power to, you know being God and all, and He did. God has the power to give someone His Personal Name, and well He did.Names are given to children by their parents, or pets by their master. God has no parents or master.
And how did they have a Personal Relationship with God before Christ came? Oh thats right they had His Personal Name...We can have that personal relationship through the Son, Jesus. We don't need the name of the Father.
El and YHWH were considered the same God in Israel, period. Everything is done in polemics and you know it, however you need to reject this simple understanding to keep your hatred towards the One True God. And while you can make the statement that what I posted could be applied to El which is just another NAME used to describe the One True God, the fact of the matter is, it is all used of YHWH and that is who Paul, Peter, John, Jesus and every Apostle and writer of the New Testament preached.Anything you posted can be applied to EL, the Most High. YHWH is not EL the Most High as biblical exegesis, recent archeological records, comparative religious studies and the Kenite Hypothesis increasingly demonstrate, all in line with what the early Christian "gnostics" proclaimed.
YHWH is mentioned all the time, in almost every Scripture quoted from the Old Testament that the NT writers quoted. You speak of Ockham but the most simple answer is the fact that literally ALL of the Writers were Jews whom all knew that Gods name is YHWH and they didnt have to specifically identify Him every single time or really at all because it was understood that YHWH is God.It also explains why YHWH is nowhere mentioned in the Gospels and in the spirit of Ockham doesn't require you to go through all that trouble trying to prove the Father is YHWH without ever having that explicit proof in Christian scripture, which would've made your case so much easier. Stuff to think about
Are you suggesting a personal name is required to have a personal relationship with God?And how did they have a Personal Relationship with God before Christ came? Oh thats right they had His Personal Name...
Only after a time of religious syncretism.El and YHWH were considered the same God in Israel, period.
For the One True God, the Father revealed through Jesus, I have nothing but unconditional love and admiration and I remain wary that my affection is not spent on a false pretender god who is Jesus' antagonist masquerading as our Creator.Everything is done in polemics and you know it, however you need to reject this simple understanding to keep your hatred towards the One True God.
On the contrary. That name is not mentioned once, with good reason.YHWH is mentioned all the time, in almost every Scripture quoted from the Old Testament that the NT writers quoted.
They didn't specify him once. In the Hebrew Bible of the Masoretes more than 7 centuries later they specified him almost 7,000 times. What's the difference?You speak of Ockham but the most simple answer is the fact that literally ALL of the Writers were Jews whom all knew that Gods name is YHWH and they didnt have to specifically identify Him every single time or really at all because it was understood that YHWH is God.
Who says they don't? But there is El and there is YHWH. It is not clear who they refer to because the scribes and Pharisees have muddied the waters.That is the absolute simplest explanation so in the Spirit of Ockham lets go with that, it is also called Common Sense. It is your ideology that needs to have heaps of other explanations in it, like why the NT authors continually refer to God as the God of the Old Testament
I am suggesting that one of the reasons God gave His personal name is because He is interested in a personal relationship. However your entire hypothesis regarding the name thing is the "Real God" wouldnt give His name, yet here you are vying for a God with the name El, which according to your source was the PERSONAL NAME of a Canaanite God, Him Baal Asherah ect.Are you suggesting a personal name is required to have a personal relationship with God?
So which is it man? Is El the name of the god you worship like it was "originally" according to your source, or is El just a generic name for God, as the Israelites (whom you basically said screwed it all up conflating El and Yahweh) and Scripture contest?, ’el (Hebrew: אל) became a generic term meaning "god", as opposed to the name of a worshipped deity,
If you worshiped the Father of Jesus you would worship the God that Jesus worshiped which is of course the God of Israel, YHWH. The one who gave all the Prophecies concerning the coming of His Son. Jesus literally quotes these Scriptures which say YHWH and applies them to Himself.For the One True God, the Father revealed through Jesus, I have nothing but unconditional love and admiration and I remain wary that my affection is not spent on a false pretender god who is Jesus' antagonist masquerading as our Creator.
It is mentioned you just are willfully blind and reject reality to uphold your False Religion in support of your False god...On the contrary. That name is not mentioned once, with good reason.
Are you seriously this dense bro? I explained why they didnt use the specific name, because God is and was understood by all of them to be YHWH. Again you have to literally reject 90% of Scripture to come to your conclusion. Do you really think the Apostles believed as you do?They didn't specify him once.
Well lets see that text matches the text found 200 years before Christ which shows that the text wasnt altered and remains unchanged. Regardless, the reason the name isnt specifically found in the later Greek is IDK because it is GREEK and well as I have explained multiple times, it has always been understood that YHWH is the God of Israel, so they just used the common form God to identify Him. Just like today when people talk about God they say God and not YHWH even tho 100% of Christians (which again for all to understand you are not, you are simply a Gnostic) understand that God is YHWH the God of Israel. Today many people identify Him as Jehovah, which is just an English transliteration of what? Oh thats right, YHWH.What's the difference?
From the few extant Greek manuscripts dated earlier than 100 AD, there is not one instance where the word kurios is used to replace the Name. Rather, in the majority of these early Greek fragments, the name of God is written in Paleo Hebrew Script, while the rest of the text is in Greek.
Rather, Aquila used a Paleo Hebrew style script to designate the four letter name. (See below.) This early second century translation follows the same pattern witnessed in first century Greek manuscripts. Thus, evidence supports the idea that the original Greek translation of the Septuagint may have contained the name of God rather than the surrogate kurios. This practice does not show up until Christian codices of the late second century.
It is absolutely clear who they are referring to because the Bible they used straight up said YHWH. There was ZERO distinction between El and YHWH as tho they were separate Gods when Christ came and when the Apostles wrote their Scriptures. Paul says the Old Testament which contained YHWH as the ONLY TRUE GOD, is God Breathed. You are the one who has to show us where Paul, Jesus or anyone else in Scripture was saying YHWH isnt the One True God, but instead were referring to some other god. Good Luck because you and I both know it is impossible for you to even come close to making this case using Scriptures Alone.Who says they don't? But there is El and there is YHWH. It is not clear who they refer to because the scribes and Pharisees have muddied the waters.
Does God have parents? Where did He come from? Did He create us as His own school project?You say the Father gave names, but who named the Father?
Parents give their children names. Does God have parents?
Names are given so that we in language and identity could distinguish between equals. Does God have equals? Do we need to distinguish God from someone or something else if there is only one?
I don't see any valid reason why the ultimate God would have a name, let alone the relevance of his true name.
Dear Vortas,In critical moments in my life i always call Jesus, and he always responds. So whatever...If some people are hell bent to be fancy ( as there is nothing more to it ) it's their choice. But on believers priority list it shouldn't make it to the first hundred.
I never said He wouldn't give His name. I said that it doesn't make any sense for the uncreated, infinite, limitless God to have a name.However your entire hypothesis regarding the name thing is the "Real God" wouldnt give His name
El would be the demiurge, which I've explained several times before, including on this forum edition. You can identify him as the God of Eden, the original Lord of Hosts, sometimes as the Father of Jesus (the man), but not the Father in Heaven revealed in Christ.yet here you are vying for a God with the name El, which according to your source was the PERSONAL NAME of a Canaanite God, Him Baal Asherah ect. So which is it man? Is El the name of the god you worship like it was "originally" according to your source, or is El just a generic name for God, as the Israelites (whom you basically said screwed it all up conflating El and Yahweh) and Scripture contest?
There's absolutely nothing contradictory about my thesis. You're just making a mess of my thesis.Seriously your are arguing against yourself in both aspects, IDK if you see this or not, but we can not have El be a generic name due to Israelities "messing with" it lowering it into a generic name, and God not have a Personal Name. Your choice is, the Israelities and Scripture is correct in the fact that El is just a Generic Name for God and His Personal Name is YHWH or the Israelities took the PERSONAL NAME OF GOD EL and put YHWH on top of it conflating it with El and lowering his PERSONAL NAME into a Generic Name for God.
So you tell me which part of your own thesis you want to reject here, that God can not have a Personal Name or that the real God is El, which is his Personal Name and not a Generic Name for God?
Something we agree on, yet the Father of Jesus never underwent this same form of syncretism among His congregation. The Father of Jesus is never referred to as a storm god, a fertility god, a god of war and peace. His attributes were entirely and unadulteratedly unique and sacred. An example would be that He loves unconditionally, something completely unheard of prior to this revelation.Of course the correct answer is that Israel did what they always have done which is to take the local tribes and other aspects of surrounding gods and then placed their God on top of as a Polemic, to show that their God, YHWH is above all the other gods.
I have 3 objections:If you worshiped the Father of Jesus you would worship the God that Jesus worshiped which is of course the God of Israel, YHWH. The one who gave all the Prophecies concerning the coming of His Son. Jesus literally quotes these Scriptures which say YHWH and applies them to Himself.
In reality if what you said was true, then Jesus would NEVER apply one single thing from the OT to Himself, He would have straight up said YHWH is false, and rejected every single solitary aspect of that "False God" but instead He says that He is the one that is fulfilling all the Prophecies that YHWH made, that He is the one that is bring the New Covenant that YHWH promised ect ect ect.
By the same standard none of their scriptures affirm YHWH as their God the Father of Christ.Are you seriously this dense bro? I explained why they didnt use the specific name, because God is and was understood by all of them to be YHWH. Again you have to literally reject 90% of Scripture to come to your conclusion. Do you really think the Apostles believed as you do?
That is ludicrous, they never would be out there preaching and using OT Scriptures, and in fact we DEFINITELY would have SOME kind of Scripture or Notes from THEM that support your thesis, but alas we dont, because they definitely did not believe as you do.
They did say it, albeit not explicitly, just as Jesus never explicitly said that He is God. It is reserved for those who have two good ears and can discern truth from what was said implicitly.Using your logic, why didnt anyone specifically reject YHWH? Why did Jesus say YHWH is False or something to that ilk? Why didnt John, or Paul, or James or any other Apostle not just tell us plainly that YHWH the God of Israel is False and that El is the real God?
The LXX is simply the Hebrew Bible translated into Greek by orthodox Jews because Hebrew as a common tongue had been replaced by both Aramaic and Greek. This has nothing to do with my claim that the "sacred name" is nowhere to be found in Christian scripture, ie. the Gospels. There are mentions of a Jao or Yao in the apocrypha, but that's about the closest thing.Well lets see that text matches the text found 200 years before Christ which shows that the text wasnt altered and remains unchanged. Regardless, the reason the name isnt specifically found in the later Greek is IDK because it is GREEK and well as I have explained multiple times, it has always been understood that YHWH is the God of Israel, so they just used the common form God to identify Him. Just like today when people talk about God they say God and not YHWH even tho 100% of Christians (which again for all to understand you are not, you are simply a Gnostic) understand that God is YHWH the God of Israel. Today many people identify Him as Jehovah, which is just an English transliteration of what? Oh thats right, YHWH.
Furthermore if we look at the Greek Septuagint, specifically the copies we have that are the oldest and closest to Jesus and Pauls time what do we see in it Art? Thats right we see YHWHs name, so if YHWH was NOT the God of Jesus there is absolutely no way He would be identifying Himself with these Text!
For those who want to know more about the Ancient Greek Septuagint here is an article about it:
http://lhim.org/gladtidings/articles/What_about_the_Septuagint_by_Rev__John_Cortright_issue_106.pdf
You can't identify Jesus' God with YHWH using solely Christian scripture either. But He has given enough clues for us to figure out that it cannot be him. I will refer you to The Old Serpent Chained for examples.Conclusion:
It is absolutely clear who they are referring to because the Bible they used straight up said YHWH. There was ZERO distinction between El and YHWH as tho they were separate Gods when Christ came and when the Apostles wrote their Scriptures. Paul says the Old Testament which contained YHWH as the ONLY TRUE GOD, is God Breathed. You are the one who has to show us where Paul, Jesus or anyone else in Scripture was saying YHWH isnt the One True God, but instead were referring to some other god. Good Luck because you and I both know it is impossible for you to even come close to making this case using Scriptures Alone.
If I would posit myself on the level of this statement I could argue back that you love the Devil. I hope you agree that this is a childish way of debating.You hate the One True God
I understand no one likes to be the subject of deception, but the great deception has already happened a long time ago, something I genuinely seek to undo.and have elevated a false god, Satan himself above Him and reject the Father of Christ, and then try and tell others to do the same thing. Probably the most deceitful person on this site.
I call him either Jesus or after his Greek name Iesous Chrestos which literally means "the Good Savior", which is a lot more telling about His nature and purpose than "the Anointed One".Does God have parents? Where did He come from? Did He create us as His own school project?
It is an interesting question, and I’ve heard it a hundred times by people that wonder about Him, but don’t actually have a relationship with Him.
The more you pray to Him, as if He IS an actual participant in your life, He will begin to answer questions like that for you.
However, before you can know the Father, you must first meet and KNOW the son, Jeshuah.
I have been insulted in every way possible by trying to talk about our Father by 95% of people I’ve ever met in my life. In my first military neighborhood where I tried to get to know my other young neighbor wives, I was labeled as “SKETCHY!”
That was very painful. Thankfully, I have Jeshuahs strength now, and I can’t care less about how I seem to others.
Promoting everyone to simply pray to Jeshuah for answers about ANYTHING is a good thing. No harm can ever come from trying to believe in having a personal relationship in Jeshuah.
That is, if you are truly a free person.
I pray that He help anyone who would be shamed for it to gather the strength to call out to Him in your head.
Ya, I’m talking to Muslims here. No one can hear you but Him, why not give Him a try. He is REAL. My passion for Him is why I bother writing this, no other gain than that.
Very funny.Dear Vortas,
In critical moments in my past, I also cried out to Jesus, He helped me too because I knew Him and He knew me.
At points in your life, your connection to the Holy Spirit and your knowledge increases. As if you graduate to a new higher grade in school.
What is so fancy about wanting to know the true name of your big brother, hmmm Vortas?
Are you another one of those Muslims?Very funny.
Big brother ? Really ? And true name must be spoken in hebrew or aramaic ? Otherwise what ? BTW "i feel that way means God feels that way" logic might be little flawed