Yahweh or Jehovah?

Joined
Dec 13, 2017
Messages
2,938
Likes
1,188
#62
Exodus 3 13 Then Moses said to God, “Indeed, when I come to the children of Israel and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they say to me, ‘What is His name?’ what shall I say to them?”

14 And God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” And He said, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’ ” 15 Moreover God said to Moses, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel: ‘YHWH elohim of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you. This is My name forever, and this is My memorial to all generations.’16 Go and gather the elders of Israel together, and say to them, ‘YHWH elohim of your fathers, the God of Abraham, of Isaac, and of Jacob, appeared to me, saying, “I have surely visited you and seen what is done to you in Egypt;



 





Joined
Apr 25, 2017
Messages
972
Likes
1,942
#64
That's the name of a god, lowercase g. Not the God, uppercase G.
That is definitely the name of the One True God, and you asked why He has a name. Let me ask you this, is Jesus Divine? Is Jesus God?

Why does He have a name if He is the One True God?

That is the inherent flaw in your incorrect logic. Regardless of Jesus being identified as the Son, which is simply a method for us Humans to have some semblance of understanding the Relationship and Make up of God, since He is God Himself, Jesus shouldnt have a name, that is what your logic leads too.

Why did God choose to give Himself a name?

How about read the Scriptures?

Ex 3:13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?
14 And God said unto Moses, I Am That I Am: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I Am hath sent me unto you
.

Moses told God, when I come to them and tell them to do what you say too, they will ask me who is it and what is His name? God then defines Himself to Moses, the name YHWH is again simply a description of His Essences. I AM boils down to the Existent One, the One that Exists before all things, which of course is exactly how we all define God.

What is even more illogical in your flawed logic is that while you are here to deny your own God and Creator calling Him evil, while in the same breath contradicting yourself calling yourself a Christian and believer in Christ, we see that Jesus Himself is identified with the name of God when asked about being greater than Abraham.

John 8:53 Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself?
54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:
55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.
56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.


Jesus was clearly in the midst of identifying Himself as Divine here and not only does He go to the lengths to say that He was before Abraham, but He tells them straight up I AM, aka I am identifying myself as the one who gave His name to Moses aka I am God, the great I AM. The Jews knew exactly what He was saying when He said I AM, if we were to translate that to Hebrew, Jesus would have said, before Abraham was YHWH, aka I AM YHWH.

It takes a special kind of Cognitive Dissonance to deny that the Father of Jesus is YHWH the God of Abraham, Jacob, and Moses. It takes completely ignoring Scripture over and over, while at the same time trying to use the same Scripture to justify Faith in Christ. Again takes a special kind of Cognitive Dissonance and you sir have it in spades...
 





Joined
Apr 13, 2017
Messages
820
Likes
857
#65
That is definitely the name of the One True God, and you asked why He has a name. Let me ask you this, is Jesus Divine? Is Jesus God?

Why does He have a name if He is the One True God?

That is the inherent flaw in your incorrect logic. Regardless of Jesus being identified as the Son, which is simply a method for us Humans to have some semblance of understanding the Relationship and Make up of God, since He is God Himself, Jesus shouldnt have a name, that is what your logic leads too.
Christian doctrine 101: the hypostatic union. Jesus is both divine and human. Humans have names, therefore Jesus has a name.

This basic syllogism shouldn't cause any problems ... normally.
 





Joined
Mar 14, 2017
Messages
542
Likes
406
#66
Do I believe God name is YAHWEH etc.....It’s a no for me. Although I carry the title in my name it’s just that. Another title.

When “Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them,The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?”

God said unto Moses, “ I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. 15And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all”

He chose to be referenced as “ the God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob” Not because that was his name. IT’S WHO HE WAS, AM, IS

We also must consider that names do not change or translate. My name is my name in any part of the earth. I AM who I AM. It IS what it IS.
 





Joined
Dec 13, 2017
Messages
2,938
Likes
1,188
#67
Do I believe God name is YAHWEH etc.....It’s a no for me. Although I carry the title in my name it’s just that. Another title.

When “Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them,The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?”

God said unto Moses, “ I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. 15And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all”

He chose to be referenced as “ the God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob” Not because that was his name. IT’S WHO HE WAS, AM, IS

We also must consider that names do not change or translate. My name is my name in any part of the earth. I AM who I AM. It IS what it IS.
Exodus 3 13 Then Moses said to Elohim, “Indeed, when I come to the children of Israel and say to them, ‘The Elohim of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they say to me, ‘What is His name?’ what shall I say to them?”

14 And Elohim said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” And He said, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’ ” 15 Moreover Elohim said to Moses, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel: ‘YHWH Elohim of your fathers, the Elohim of Abraham, the Elohim of Isaac, and the Elohim of Jacob, has sent me to you. This is My name forever, and this is My memorial to all generations.’16 Go and gather the elders of Israel together, and say to them, ‘YHWH Elohim of your fathers, the Elohim of Abraham, of Isaac, and of Jacob, appeared to me, saying, “I have surely visited you and seen what is done to you in Egypt;
 





Joined
Apr 25, 2017
Messages
972
Likes
1,942
#68
Christian doctrine 101: the hypostatic union. Jesus is both divine and human. Humans have names, therefore Jesus has a name.

This basic syllogism shouldn't cause any problems ... normally.
You ask why God gave His name, your logic is God shouldnt have a name (for some unknown reason), then logic precludes above all things, Jesus being God should not be named.

Jesus having a name doesnt cause problems for anyone, nor does God designating a name for Himself when asks cause a problem nor should it cause any problems... normally.
 





Joined
Apr 13, 2017
Messages
820
Likes
857
#69
You ask why God gave His name, your logic is God shouldnt have a name (for some unknown reason)
The word shouldn't implies different things. The reasons why God doesn't have a name (known to us) has been mentioned, ie:

  1. His name is not mentioned in the Gospels. Jesus is God, but Jesus is not the Father. The Father remains unnamed in all of Christian scripture.
  2. He is unique, He has no equals, He is the only one who qualifies as God with capital G. There is only one King in a Kingdom, therefore no personal name is required to identify Him.
  3. Names are given to children by their parents, or pets by their master. God has no parents or master.
 





Joined
Apr 25, 2017
Messages
972
Likes
1,942
#70
The reasons why God doesn't have a name (known to us) has been mentioned, ie:
Except God DOES have a name known to us, He made it known to Moses specifically, thousands of years before Jesus came. Only YOU reject this, all Christians (which you are not) accept the Scriptures...

His name is not mentioned in the Gospels. Jesus is God, but Jesus is not the Father. The Father remains unnamed in all of Christian scripture.
It is mentioned in Scriptures, its been quoted, and the Old Testament IS Christian Scriptures. Again it takes a special kind of Cognitive Dissonance to reject this. When Jesus quotes the Old Testament, when John quotes the Old Testament, when Paul quotes the Old Testament, when Peter quotes the Old Testament, its obvious that the Old Testament is Scripture.

The first recorded Sermon after Christ sent out the Apostles what does Peter say?

Acts 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come:

21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

This is the Scripture Peter quoted:

Joel 2:27 And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the Lord your God, and none else: and my people shall never be ashamed.
28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.
30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.
31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of the Lord come.

32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the Lord hath said, and in the remnant whom the Lord shall call.

Peter directly quotes the Old Testament, and as we see every time he is quoting Lord, it means YHWH the personal name of God.

It takes a special kind of Cognitive Dissonance to reject this

He then continues preaching:

Acts 2:25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:

Peter was quoting:

Ps 16:8 I have set the Lord always before me: because he is at my right hand, I shall not be moved.

That Lord is YHWH, so David said I have set YHWH before me, and Peter is saying that Jesus IS the Son of YHWH as he literally after this:

Acts 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

Everywhere in red you can insert YHWH because that is the direct inference he is making as he literally and directly quoted Scripture that say YHWH in each of those places.

The LORD, (YHWH) wouldnt let His (YHWH's) Holy One (Jesus), see corruption, so He (YHWH) GOD Resurrected Jesus and exalted Him. That is what Peter preached in the very first Sermon every recorded after Christ ascended.

It takes a special kind of Cognitive Dissonance to reject this.

What did Peter preach in his 2nd Sermon?

Acts 3:12 And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel, why marvel ye at this? or why look ye so earnestly on us, as though by our own power or holiness we had made this man to walk?
13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.
14 But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you;

15 And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.

Well of course the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob, the God of Peters fathers, the God of Israel is YHWH and Jesus is the Holy and Just Son of YHWH, that is what Peter is preaching.

It takes a special kind of Cognitive Dissonance to reject this.

I can do this with literally every Apostle and author of the New Testament, one last example since you actually have the audacity to quote Paul:

1 Cor 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.

So according to Paul, the God of Jesus, the ONLY GOD is the God that spoke to Moses, that lead Israel out of Egypt and whom was not well pleased with them in the wilderness. What God is that Art? The one you say isnt really God, which of course really is God according to literally every Apostle and writer of the New Testament and Jesus Himself, which is YHWH.

It takes a special kind of Cognitive Dissonance to reject this.

He is unique, He has no equals, He is the only one who qualifies as God with capital G. There is only one King in a Kingdom, therefore no personal name is required to identify Him.
Except Jesus is King, who has no equals and qualifies as God and yet He has a Personal Name. I mean seriously do you think that God Himself who literally created the concept of Names, can not give Himself a name? This is seriously the weakest argument I have ever seen from you and it is so easily rejected by any human with basic reading comprehension, because it is explained thoroughly in Scriptures. You know, what Paul said is God Breathed as Paul quotes CONSTANTLY from the Torah, aka the Books written by Moses about his God, YHWH.

Names are given to children by their parents, or pets by their master. God has no parents or master.
And yet God who is capable of doing anything chose to answer Moses and identified Himself with a name that encompasses His Essence. Your argument is as silly as a Muslims argument that God wouldnt come as a man, well He has the power to, you know being God and all, and He did. God has the power to give someone His Personal Name, and well He did.

What kind of God wouldnt give a Personal Name? I will tell you what kind of God, a God that isnt interested in a Personal Relationship, like the False God of Gnosticism. I am thankful that the One True God is 100% interested in a Personal Relationship and it isnt above Him to give us His Personal Name so we can have and keep that Personal Relationship.
 





Joined
Apr 13, 2017
Messages
820
Likes
857
#71
We can have that personal relationship through the Son, Jesus. We don't need the name of the Father.

Anything you posted can be applied to EL, the Most High. YHWH is not EL the Most High as biblical exegesis, recent archeological records, comparative religious studies and the Kenite Hypothesis increasingly demonstrate, all in line with what the early Christian "gnostics" proclaimed.

It also explains why YHWH is nowhere mentioned in the Gospels and in the spirit of Ockham doesn't require you to go through all that trouble trying to prove the Father is YHWH without ever having that explicit proof in Christian scripture, which would've made your case so much easier. Stuff to think about.
 





Joined
Apr 25, 2017
Messages
972
Likes
1,942
#72
We can have that personal relationship through the Son, Jesus. We don't need the name of the Father.
And how did they have a Personal Relationship with God before Christ came? Oh thats right they had His Personal Name...

Anything you posted can be applied to EL, the Most High. YHWH is not EL the Most High as biblical exegesis, recent archeological records, comparative religious studies and the Kenite Hypothesis increasingly demonstrate, all in line with what the early Christian "gnostics" proclaimed.
El and YHWH were considered the same God in Israel, period. Everything is done in polemics and you know it, however you need to reject this simple understanding to keep your hatred towards the One True God. And while you can make the statement that what I posted could be applied to El which is just another NAME used to describe the One True God, the fact of the matter is, it is all used of YHWH and that is who Paul, Peter, John, Jesus and every Apostle and writer of the New Testament preached.

What they did NOT preach was this supposed anti-god called YHWH and then El the real God and all the other nonsense your False Religion interjects over and over which is really just taking the Babylonian Religion and putting Christian terms on it, like the Jews did with their Kabbalahism. But you know this...

It also explains why YHWH is nowhere mentioned in the Gospels and in the spirit of Ockham doesn't require you to go through all that trouble trying to prove the Father is YHWH without ever having that explicit proof in Christian scripture, which would've made your case so much easier. Stuff to think about
YHWH is mentioned all the time, in almost every Scripture quoted from the Old Testament that the NT writers quoted. You speak of Ockham but the most simple answer is the fact that literally ALL of the Writers were Jews whom all knew that Gods name is YHWH and they didnt have to specifically identify Him every single time or really at all because it was understood that YHWH is God.

That is the absolute simplest explanation so in the Spirit of Ockham lets go with that, it is also called Common Sense. It is your ideology that needs to have heaps of other explanations in it, like why the NT authors continually refer to God as the God of the Old Testament, why they quote Scriptures from the OT period, and identify Jesus as the fulfillment of Scriptures given specifically from and about YHWH ect ect ect.

You still havent in all the years you bring your False Gospel and False Religion on to this site, explained any of that aspect. You wont either because it defies all logic and is the opposite of the Spirit of Ockham to have anyone believe your False Religion and then write the New Testament as they did.
 





Joined
Apr 13, 2017
Messages
820
Likes
857
#73
And how did they have a Personal Relationship with God before Christ came? Oh thats right they had His Personal Name...
Are you suggesting a personal name is required to have a personal relationship with God?


El and YHWH were considered the same God in Israel, period.
Only after a time of religious syncretism.

El and Yahweh

Israel emerges into the historical record in the last decades of the 13th century BCE, at the very end of the Late Bronze Age when the Canaanite city-state system was ending.[29] The milieu from which Israelite religion emerged was accordingly Canaanite.[30] El, "the kind, the compassionate," "the creator of creatures," was the chief of the Canaanite gods,[31] and he, not Yahweh, was the original "God of Israel"—the word "Israel" is based on the name El rather than Yahweh. He lived in a tent on a mountain from whose base originated all the fresh waters of the world, with the goddess Asherah as his consort.[31][33] This pair made up the top tier of the Canaanite pantheon;[31] the second tier was made up of their children, the "seventy sons of Athirat" (a variant of the name Asherah).[34] Prominent in this group was Baal, who had his home on Mount Zaphon; over time Baal became the dominant Canaanite deity, so that El became the executive power and Baal the military power in the cosmos.[35] Baal's sphere was the thunderstorm with its life-giving rains, so that he was also a fertility god, although not quite the fertility god.[36] Below the seventy second-tier gods was a third tier made up of comparatively minor craftsman and trader deities, with a fourth and final tier of divine messengers and the like.[34] El and his sons made up the Assembly of the Gods, each member of which had a human nation under his care, and a textual variant of Deuteronomy 32:8–9 describes El dividing the nations of the world among his sons, with Yahweh receiving Israel:​
When the Most High (’elyôn) gave to the nations their inheritance,​
when he separated humanity,​
he fixed the boundaries of the peoples​
according to the number of divine beings.​
For Yahweh's portion is his people,​
Jacob his allotted heritage.​
The Israelites initially worshipped Yahweh alongside a variety of Canaanite gods and goddesses, including El, Asherah and Baal.[37] In the period of the Judges and the first half of the monarchy, El and Yahweh became conflated in a process of religious syncretism.[38] As a result, ’el (Hebrew: אל) became a generic term meaning "god", as opposed to the name of a worshipped deity, and epithets such as El Shaddai came to be applied to Yahweh alone, diminishing the worship of El and strengthening the position of Yahweh.[39] Features of Baal, El and Asherah were absorbed into the Yahweh religion, Asherah possibly becoming embodied in the feminine aspects of the Shekinah or divine presence, and Baal's nature as a storm and weather god becoming assimilated into Yahweh's own identification with the storm.[40] In the next stage the Yahweh religion separated itself from its Canaanite heritage, first by rejecting Baal-worship in the 9th century, then through the 8th to 6th centuries with prophetic condemnation of Baal, the asherim, sun-worship, worship on the "high places", practices pertaining to the dead, and other matters.​
Everything is done in polemics and you know it, however you need to reject this simple understanding to keep your hatred towards the One True God.
For the One True God, the Father revealed through Jesus, I have nothing but unconditional love and admiration and I remain wary that my affection is not spent on a false pretender god who is Jesus' antagonist masquerading as our Creator.


YHWH is mentioned all the time, in almost every Scripture quoted from the Old Testament that the NT writers quoted.
On the contrary. That name is not mentioned once, with good reason.


You speak of Ockham but the most simple answer is the fact that literally ALL of the Writers were Jews whom all knew that Gods name is YHWH and they didnt have to specifically identify Him every single time or really at all because it was understood that YHWH is God.
They didn't specify him once. In the Hebrew Bible of the Masoretes more than 7 centuries later they specified him almost 7,000 times. What's the difference?

He who has received something other than the Lord is still a Hebrew. - Gospel of Philip

Who are the Hebrews if not for those who retained their old worship and their old gods?


That is the absolute simplest explanation so in the Spirit of Ockham lets go with that, it is also called Common Sense. It is your ideology that needs to have heaps of other explanations in it, like why the NT authors continually refer to God as the God of the Old Testament
Who says they don't? But there is El and there is YHWH. It is not clear who they refer to because the scribes and Pharisees have muddied the waters.
 





Joined
Apr 25, 2017
Messages
972
Likes
1,942
#74
Are you suggesting a personal name is required to have a personal relationship with God?
I am suggesting that one of the reasons God gave His personal name is because He is interested in a personal relationship. However your entire hypothesis regarding the name thing is the "Real God" wouldnt give His name, yet here you are vying for a God with the name El, which according to your source was the PERSONAL NAME of a Canaanite God, Him Baal Asherah ect.

, ’el (Hebrew: אל) became a generic term meaning "god", as opposed to the name of a worshipped deity,
So which is it man? Is El the name of the god you worship like it was "originally" according to your source, or is El just a generic name for God, as the Israelites (whom you basically said screwed it all up conflating El and Yahweh) and Scripture contest?

Seriously your are arguing against yourself in both aspects, IDK if you see this or not, but we can not have El be a generic name due to Israelities "messing with" it lowering it into a generic name, and God not have a Personal Name. Your choice is, the Israelities and Scripture is correct in the fact that El is just a Generic Name for God and His Personal Name is YHWH or the Israelities took the PERSONAL NAME OF GOD EL and put YHWH on top of it conflating it with El and lowering his PERSONAL NAME into a Generic Name for God.

So you tell me which part of your own thesis you want to reject here, that God can not have a Personal Name or that the real God is El, which is his Personal Name and not a Generic Name for God?

Of course the correct answer is that Israel did what they always have done which is to take the local tribes and other aspects of surrounding gods and then placed their God on top of as a Polemic, to show that their God, YHWH is above all the other gods.

For the One True God, the Father revealed through Jesus, I have nothing but unconditional love and admiration and I remain wary that my affection is not spent on a false pretender god who is Jesus' antagonist masquerading as our Creator.
If you worshiped the Father of Jesus you would worship the God that Jesus worshiped which is of course the God of Israel, YHWH. The one who gave all the Prophecies concerning the coming of His Son. Jesus literally quotes these Scriptures which say YHWH and applies them to Himself.

In reality if what you said was true, then Jesus would NEVER apply one single thing from the OT to Himself, He would have straight up said YHWH is false, and rejected every single solitary aspect of that "False God" but instead He says that He is the one that is fulfilling all the Prophecies that YHWH made, that He is the one that is bring the New Covenant that YHWH promised ect ect ect.

You hate the One True God and have elevated a false god, Satan himself above Him and reject the Father of Christ, and then try and tell others to do the same thing. Probably the most deceitful person on this site.

Like I keep saying over and over it takes massive willful ignorance and extreme Cognitive Dissonance to believe what you do...

On the contrary. That name is not mentioned once, with good reason.
It is mentioned you just are willfully blind and reject reality to uphold your False Religion in support of your False god...

They didn't specify him once.
Are you seriously this dense bro? I explained why they didnt use the specific name, because God is and was understood by all of them to be YHWH. Again you have to literally reject 90% of Scripture to come to your conclusion. Do you really think the Apostles believed as you do?

That is ludicrous, they never would be out there preaching and using OT Scriptures, and in fact we DEFINITELY would have SOME kind of Scripture or Notes from THEM that support your thesis, but alas we dont, because they definitely did not believe as you do.

Using your logic, why didnt anyone specifically reject YHWH? Why did Jesus say YHWH is False or something to that ilk? Why didnt John, or Paul, or James or any other Apostle not just tell us plainly that YHWH the God of Israel is False and that El is the real God?

If this was the Truth, it definitely would have been all within their writings, but of course its not there. It is a concept that didnt exist until over a hundred years after Christ died started by an AntiChrist, go ahead and tell us his name..

What's the difference?
Well lets see that text matches the text found 200 years before Christ which shows that the text wasnt altered and remains unchanged. Regardless, the reason the name isnt specifically found in the later Greek is IDK because it is GREEK and well as I have explained multiple times, it has always been understood that YHWH is the God of Israel, so they just used the common form God to identify Him. Just like today when people talk about God they say God and not YHWH even tho 100% of Christians (which again for all to understand you are not, you are simply a Gnostic) understand that God is YHWH the God of Israel. Today many people identify Him as Jehovah, which is just an English transliteration of what? Oh thats right, YHWH.

Furthermore if we look at the Greek Septuagint, specifically the copies we have that are the oldest and closest to Jesus and Pauls time what do we see in it Art? Thats right we see YHWHs name, so if YHWH was NOT the God of Jesus there is absolutely no way He would be identifying Himself with these Text!

For those who want to know more about the Ancient Greek Septuagint here is an article about it:

http://lhim.org/gladtidings/articles/What_about_the_Septuagint_by_Rev__John_Cortright_issue_106.pdf

Conclusion:

From the few extant Greek manuscripts dated earlier than 100 AD, there is not one instance where the word kurios is used to replace the Name. Rather, in the majority of these early Greek fragments, the name of God is written in Paleo Hebrew Script, while the rest of the text is in Greek.

Rather, Aquila used a Paleo Hebrew style script to designate the four letter name. (See below.) This early second century translation follows the same pattern witnessed in first century Greek manuscripts. Thus, evidence supports the idea that the original Greek translation of the Septuagint may have contained the name of God rather than the surrogate kurios. This practice does not show up until Christian codices of the late second century.
Who says they don't? But there is El and there is YHWH. It is not clear who they refer to because the scribes and Pharisees have muddied the waters.
It is absolutely clear who they are referring to because the Bible they used straight up said YHWH. There was ZERO distinction between El and YHWH as tho they were separate Gods when Christ came and when the Apostles wrote their Scriptures. Paul says the Old Testament which contained YHWH as the ONLY TRUE GOD, is God Breathed. You are the one who has to show us where Paul, Jesus or anyone else in Scripture was saying YHWH isnt the One True God, but instead were referring to some other god. Good Luck because you and I both know it is impossible for you to even come close to making this case using Scriptures Alone.
 





Joined
Feb 2, 2019
Messages
60
Likes
47
#75
You say the Father gave names, but who named the Father?

Parents give their children names. Does God have parents?

Names are given so that we in language and identity could distinguish between equals. Does God have equals? Do we need to distinguish God from someone or something else if there is only one?

I don't see any valid reason why the ultimate God would have a name, let alone the relevance of his true name.
Does God have parents? Where did He come from? Did He create us as His own school project?
It is an interesting question, and I’ve heard it a hundred times by people that wonder about Him, but don’t actually have a relationship with Him.
The more you pray to Him, as if He IS an actual participant in your life, He will begin to answer questions like that for you.
However, before you can know the Father, you must first meet and KNOW the son, Jeshuah.

I have been insulted in every way possible by trying to talk about our Father by 95% of people I’ve ever met in my life. In my first military neighborhood where I tried to get to know my other young neighbor wives, I was labeled as “SKETCHY!”
That was very painful. Thankfully, I have Jeshuahs strength now, and I can’t care less about how I seem to others.
Promoting everyone to simply pray to Jeshuah for answers about ANYTHING is a good thing. No harm can ever come from trying to believe in having a personal relationship in Jeshuah.
That is, if you are truly a free person.
I pray that He help anyone who would be shamed for it to gather the strength to call out to Him in your head.

Ya, I’m talking to Muslims here. No one can hear you but Him, why not give Him a try. He is REAL. My passion for Him is why I bother writing this, no other gain than that.
 





Joined
Feb 2, 2019
Messages
60
Likes
47
#76
In critical moments in my life i always call Jesus, and he always responds. So whatever...If some people are hell bent to be fancy ( as there is nothing more to it ) it's their choice. But on believers priority list it shouldn't make it to the first hundred.
Dear Vortas,
In critical moments in my past, I also cried out to Jesus, He helped me too because I knew Him and He knew me.
At points in your life, your connection to the Holy Spirit and your knowledge increases. As if you graduate to a new higher grade in school.
What is so fancy about wanting to know the true name of your big brother, hmmm Vortas?
 





Joined
Apr 13, 2017
Messages
820
Likes
857
#77
However your entire hypothesis regarding the name thing is the "Real God" wouldnt give His name
I never said He wouldn't give His name. I said that it doesn't make any sense for the uncreated, infinite, limitless God to have a name.

yet here you are vying for a God with the name El, which according to your source was the PERSONAL NAME of a Canaanite God, Him Baal Asherah ect. So which is it man? Is El the name of the god you worship like it was "originally" according to your source, or is El just a generic name for God, as the Israelites (whom you basically said screwed it all up conflating El and Yahweh) and Scripture contest?
El would be the demiurge, which I've explained several times before, including on this forum edition. You can identify him as the God of Eden, the original Lord of Hosts, sometimes as the Father of Jesus (the man), but not the Father in Heaven revealed in Christ.

Israel's El is not a personal name and I never claimed it was. The Semitic El is ultimately derived from the Mesopotamian Enlil, which meant Lord of the Wind or Air. Yahweh however is a personal name, but the meaning is generally unknown. The most plausible theory to me is that it's derived from the semitic root hwy, which means: to fall, to blow and to desire. In both cases however the name is not very neutral nor very indicative of a universal entity, but a specific entity within a pantheon of many.

God or the Father however is entirely different, much more a primordial concept as a universal progenitor. Nameless since the concept of a creator who created all things named is Him.

Seriously your are arguing against yourself in both aspects, IDK if you see this or not, but we can not have El be a generic name due to Israelities "messing with" it lowering it into a generic name, and God not have a Personal Name. Your choice is, the Israelities and Scripture is correct in the fact that El is just a Generic Name for God and His Personal Name is YHWH or the Israelities took the PERSONAL NAME OF GOD EL and put YHWH on top of it conflating it with El and lowering his PERSONAL NAME into a Generic Name for God.

So you tell me which part of your own thesis you want to reject here, that God can not have a Personal Name or that the real God is El, which is his Personal Name and not a Generic Name for God?
There's absolutely nothing contradictory about my thesis. You're just making a mess of my thesis.

Of course the correct answer is that Israel did what they always have done which is to take the local tribes and other aspects of surrounding gods and then placed their God on top of as a Polemic, to show that their God, YHWH is above all the other gods.
Something we agree on, yet the Father of Jesus never underwent this same form of syncretism among His congregation. The Father of Jesus is never referred to as a storm god, a fertility god, a god of war and peace. His attributes were entirely and unadulteratedly unique and sacred. An example would be that He loves unconditionally, something completely unheard of prior to this revelation.

If you worshiped the Father of Jesus you would worship the God that Jesus worshiped which is of course the God of Israel, YHWH. The one who gave all the Prophecies concerning the coming of His Son. Jesus literally quotes these Scriptures which say YHWH and applies them to Himself.

In reality if what you said was true, then Jesus would NEVER apply one single thing from the OT to Himself, He would have straight up said YHWH is false, and rejected every single solitary aspect of that "False God" but instead He says that He is the one that is fulfilling all the Prophecies that YHWH made, that He is the one that is bring the New Covenant that YHWH promised ect ect ect.
I have 3 objections:

1. I never denied the possibility for the existence of genuine prophecies in the Old Testament. I do believe El has sent prophets of Jesus that weren't recognized (by the people of YHWH).

2. Because of objection 1 I see no problem with Jesus referring to Old Testament prophecy. Moreover, the source of a truth statement is irrelevant. Jesus can make the same statement as the Devil when the statement is true. A defining attribute of truth is that its validity is independent of the source.

3. Jesus's mission was to convert the Hebrews, not to disparage their faith, their traditions or their god. Jesus would not have said about His people that their god was the Devil. That's not how you successfully accomplish mass conversion. In fact, even in spite of Jesus not having committed any form of blasphemy against their god (except for not denying being the Son of God), he was put on the cross.

Are you seriously this dense bro? I explained why they didnt use the specific name, because God is and was understood by all of them to be YHWH. Again you have to literally reject 90% of Scripture to come to your conclusion. Do you really think the Apostles believed as you do?

That is ludicrous, they never would be out there preaching and using OT Scriptures, and in fact we DEFINITELY would have SOME kind of Scripture or Notes from THEM that support your thesis, but alas we dont, because they definitely did not believe as you do.
By the same standard none of their scriptures affirm YHWH as their God the Father of Christ.

Using your logic, why didnt anyone specifically reject YHWH? Why did Jesus say YHWH is False or something to that ilk? Why didnt John, or Paul, or James or any other Apostle not just tell us plainly that YHWH the God of Israel is False and that El is the real God?
They did say it, albeit not explicitly, just as Jesus never explicitly said that He is God. It is reserved for those who have two good ears and can discern truth from what was said implicitly.

Well lets see that text matches the text found 200 years before Christ which shows that the text wasnt altered and remains unchanged. Regardless, the reason the name isnt specifically found in the later Greek is IDK because it is GREEK and well as I have explained multiple times, it has always been understood that YHWH is the God of Israel, so they just used the common form God to identify Him. Just like today when people talk about God they say God and not YHWH even tho 100% of Christians (which again for all to understand you are not, you are simply a Gnostic) understand that God is YHWH the God of Israel. Today many people identify Him as Jehovah, which is just an English transliteration of what? Oh thats right, YHWH.

Furthermore if we look at the Greek Septuagint, specifically the copies we have that are the oldest and closest to Jesus and Pauls time what do we see in it Art? Thats right we see YHWHs name, so if YHWH was NOT the God of Jesus there is absolutely no way He would be identifying Himself with these Text!

For those who want to know more about the Ancient Greek Septuagint here is an article about it:

http://lhim.org/gladtidings/articles/What_about_the_Septuagint_by_Rev__John_Cortright_issue_106.pdf
The LXX is simply the Hebrew Bible translated into Greek by orthodox Jews because Hebrew as a common tongue had been replaced by both Aramaic and Greek. This has nothing to do with my claim that the "sacred name" is nowhere to be found in Christian scripture, ie. the Gospels. There are mentions of a Jao or Yao in the apocrypha, but that's about the closest thing.

Conclusion:

It is absolutely clear who they are referring to because the Bible they used straight up said YHWH. There was ZERO distinction between El and YHWH as tho they were separate Gods when Christ came and when the Apostles wrote their Scriptures. Paul says the Old Testament which contained YHWH as the ONLY TRUE GOD, is God Breathed. You are the one who has to show us where Paul, Jesus or anyone else in Scripture was saying YHWH isnt the One True God, but instead were referring to some other god. Good Luck because you and I both know it is impossible for you to even come close to making this case using Scriptures Alone.
You can't identify Jesus' God with YHWH using solely Christian scripture either. But He has given enough clues for us to figure out that it cannot be him. I will refer you to The Old Serpent Chained for examples.

You hate the One True God
If I would posit myself on the level of this statement I could argue back that you love the Devil. I hope you agree that this is a childish way of debating.

and have elevated a false god, Satan himself above Him and reject the Father of Christ, and then try and tell others to do the same thing. Probably the most deceitful person on this site.
I understand no one likes to be the subject of deception, but the great deception has already happened a long time ago, something I genuinely seek to undo.
 





Last edited:
Joined
Apr 13, 2017
Messages
820
Likes
857
#78
Does God have parents? Where did He come from? Did He create us as His own school project?
It is an interesting question, and I’ve heard it a hundred times by people that wonder about Him, but don’t actually have a relationship with Him.
The more you pray to Him, as if He IS an actual participant in your life, He will begin to answer questions like that for you.
However, before you can know the Father, you must first meet and KNOW the son, Jeshuah.

I have been insulted in every way possible by trying to talk about our Father by 95% of people I’ve ever met in my life. In my first military neighborhood where I tried to get to know my other young neighbor wives, I was labeled as “SKETCHY!”
That was very painful. Thankfully, I have Jeshuahs strength now, and I can’t care less about how I seem to others.
Promoting everyone to simply pray to Jeshuah for answers about ANYTHING is a good thing. No harm can ever come from trying to believe in having a personal relationship in Jeshuah.
That is, if you are truly a free person.
I pray that He help anyone who would be shamed for it to gather the strength to call out to Him in your head.

Ya, I’m talking to Muslims here. No one can hear you but Him, why not give Him a try. He is REAL. My passion for Him is why I bother writing this, no other gain than that.
I call him either Jesus or after his Greek name Iesous Chrestos which literally means "the Good Savior", which is a lot more telling about His nature and purpose than "the Anointed One".
 





Last edited:
Joined
Jun 29, 2017
Messages
1,415
Likes
2,464
#79
Dear Vortas,
In critical moments in my past, I also cried out to Jesus, He helped me too because I knew Him and He knew me.
At points in your life, your connection to the Holy Spirit and your knowledge increases. As if you graduate to a new higher grade in school.
What is so fancy about wanting to know the true name of your big brother, hmmm Vortas?
Very funny. :)
Big brother ? Really ? And true name must be spoken in hebrew or aramaic ? Otherwise what ? BTW "i feel that way means God feels that way" logic might be little flawed :)