Yahweh. How many of Him are there?

Tidal

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Jesus is God the Son.
You cannot profess to be a Christian and deny this.

Even God himself calls Jesus his Son-
"This is my beloved son in whom I am well pleased, listen to him" (Matt 17:5)

You can argue with God and Jesus if you like, but include me out..:)
"Who is it that beats the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God" (1 John 5:5)
 

Tidal

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...Jesus is God and He made it plain beyond reasonable doubt that He is God.

No offence but your posts are becoming far too long..:)
"The more the words,the less the meaning, and how does that profit anyone?" (Ecc 6:11)

Look, if Jesus was God as you claim, please explain to us why Jesus said-
"Only God knows when Judgment Day will be, I don't know myself" (Mark 13:32)

As for Moses at the burning bush, when he asked God his name God replied "I am that I am", that doesn't mean he was saying he was saying he was Jesus, he was simply saying "I'm too big to have a name, I just AM"..:)


PS- Some people try to say God's name is 'Yahweh', but that's a tad disrespectful, other religions give their false "gods" names but the Christian God is too great to have a name tag slapped on him.

Even angels often don't bother with names-
"Then Manoah inquired of the angel of the Lord, 'What is your name, so that we may honour you when your word comes true? '
He replied, "Why do you ask my name? It is beyond understanding" (Judges 13:17/18)
 

phipps

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No offence but your posts are becoming far too long..:)
"The more the words,the less the meaning, and how does that profit anyone?" (Ecc 6:11)

Look, if Jesus was God as you claim, please explain to us why Jesus said-
"Only God knows when Judgment Day will be, I don't know myself" (Mark 13:32)

As for Moses at the burning bush, when he asked God his name God replied "I am that I am", that doesn't mean he was saying he was saying he was Jesus, he was simply saying "I'm too big to have a name, I just AM"..:)


PS- Some people try to say God's name is 'Yahweh', but that's a tad disrespectful, other religions give their false "gods" names but the Christian God is too great to have a name tag slapped on him.

Even angels often don't bother with names-
"Then Manoah inquired of the angel of the Lord, 'What is your name, so that we may honour you when your word comes true? '
He replied, "Why do you ask my name? It is beyond understanding" (Judges 13:17/18)
I've always written long posts and I need to sometimes with certain subjects like this one where I have to quote the Bible. What I wrote does not take even ten minutes to read so I don't understand what's hard about that.

Look, if Jesus was God as you claim, please explain to us why Jesus said-
"Only God knows when Judgment Day will be, I don't know myself" (Mark 13:32)
So you think this one verse dismisses Jesus as God? We don't know the ins and outs of Jesus' relationship with God the Father and what they decided between themselves. But Jesus is one with the Father as He said so Himself, more than that He did things only God can do like forgive sins. When Jesus told a paralytic, "Son, your sins are forgiven you.” The Bible tells us, "And some of the scribes were sitting there and reasoning in their hearts, “Why does this Man speak blasphemies like this? Who can forgive sins but God alone?” (Mark 2:1-12). Unless you think Jesus blasphemed God in then.

To reject Jesus as God means you are calling Him a liar because He made it clear in word and action that He is God. When Jesus told the Jews, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM”, the Bible goes on to tell us the Jews took up stones to throw at Jesus because they believed He was lying. They said to Him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?” He was talking about His pre-existence as God. Do you believe Jesus was lying?

As for Moses at the burning bush, when he asked God his name God replied "I am that I am", that doesn't mean he was saying he was saying he was Jesus, he was simply saying "I'm too big to have a name, I just AM"..
Jesus was telling Moses He was God, the self existent One. God was telling Pharaoh through Moses that the great God of the universe had sent him and not his pagan god.

PS- Some people try to say God's name is 'Yahweh', but that's a tad disrespectful, other religions give their false "gods" names but the Christian God is too great to have a name tag slapped on him.
Personally I believe its a minor issue what name we call God. Whether we use God, Lord, Yahweh etc is not as important as treating Him with reverence, understanding His character, understanding His sacrifice for us and doing His will. My Bible tells me that God looks at the intent of the heart. God wants us to worship Him for Who He truly is, our Creator and Redeemer, whose character is self-sacrificing love no matter what we call Him. He wants us to love Him with all our hearts, souls and strength.
 
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Daze

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What I wrote does not take even ten minutes to read so I don't understand what's hard about that.
Honestly, how many do you think have 10 minutes to read one post? When people can't be bothered to watch a video over 2 or 3 minutes whose gonna take 10 to read 1 post?

Have you heard of the KISS principle? I don't read most posts where i have to scroll over a page but if you think it takes up to 10 minutes for someone to read a post of yours i can guarantee at least 75% are not reading them either.
 

Tidal

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I've always written long posts and I need to sometimes with certain subjects like this one where I have to quote the Bible.

Long convoluted posts make ordinary people think Christianity is a big complicated thing and put them off, and I bet satan is chuckling..;)
Consider this-
Jesus asked his disciples “Who do you say I am?” Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”
Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven" (Matt 16:13-17)

Therefore, if Jesus was God as you claim, why didn't Jesus say to Simon "You're wrong, I'm not the son of God, I am God"
 

phipps

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Long convoluted posts make ordinary people think Christianity is a big complicated thing and put them off, and I bet satan is chuckling..;)
Consider this-
Jesus asked his disciples “Who do you say I am?” Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”
Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven" (Matt 16:13-17)

Therefore, if Jesus was God as you claim, why didn't Jesus say to Simon "You're wrong, I'm not the son of God, I am God"
I wonder will you be able to read all I'm going to post in response to you? Will you think its too "long and convoluted"?

The Bible never has a subject written of in one place. In order to understand a subject we have to read what the entire Bible says on the subject to understand it. Most of what I posted is scripture written about Jesus as God in the Bible to show you that you have chosen certain passages in the Bible while ignoring others (including Jesus' own words) to conclude that Jesus isn't God.

However Christianity is not complicated but the path is not easy.The Bible shows us that living a life wholly dedicated to God is not easy in this world. The life of the prophets, patriarchs, apostles, reformers and Jesus prove this. Many (including our Lord) were persecuted and killed for their beliefs. The Bible says, "Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it" (Matthew 7:14). When we have a deep relationship with Jesus out hearts are light, we are at peace, we are content but the path is hard and the devil will try everything to get us off that path to eternal life and being with God forever. That is why few find this path.

Therefore, if Jesus was God as you claim, why didn't Jesus say to Simon "You're wrong, I'm not the son of God, I am God"
I've have shown you from God's Word that Jesus fulfils to a T the scripture definitions for God. I can't convince you who Jesus is, only the Holy Spirit can. All I can do is advise you to ask God to show you the the truth of His Word and study all the Bible has to say on this subject. God bless.
 

Tidal

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The Bible never has a subject written of in one place. In order to understand a subject we have to read what the entire Bible says on the subject to understand it..

Nah, like I've said before, Jesus can be found in a simple slimline gospel like the one below, and if people still can't find him in there, all the studying of the whole Bible won't help them one iota..:)
In fact Jesus had to tell the snooty priests to get their noses out of their heavyweight books and simply glance up to see him standing in front of them-
"You diligently study the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life." (John 5:39/40)

But the ordinary people understood him well enough-
"The common people heard him gladly" (Mark 12:37)

 

Maldarker

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Long convoluted posts make ordinary people think Christianity is a big complicated thing and put them off, and I bet satan is chuckling..;)
Consider this-
Jesus asked his disciples “Who do you say I am?” Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”
Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven" (Matt 16:13-17)

Therefore, if Jesus was God as you claim, why didn't Jesus say to Simon "You're wrong, I'm not the son of God, I am God"
Question did they not fall down and worship him? Disciples bowing to Jesus & if so & he's not GOD then would not your disciples not being following the law of no other GODs? from matthe14 …32And when they had climbed back into the boat, the wind died down. 33Then those who were in the boat worshiped Him. So if no one but GOD the I AM is worthy of worship would not the Jewish disciples know these commandments? I don't think they would be worshipping someone that isn't GOD. So in fact they would violate the first commandment by doing this. hmm??? Points to the fact that HE is who HE says HE is.
 

Maldarker

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The word "worship" is flexible, for example here are some other bible translations of the word-
And note they ALL say "You are the Son of God"..:)

Thought u only used the KJV and what does that one say remember its the closet translation to the original greek.
 

Tidal

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Thought u only used the KJV and what does that one say remember its the closet translation to the original greek.

I said the fearless KJV is my favourite, it says "worship" and I also use other translations for cross-reference..:)

Returning to the "was Jesus God?" debate-
When the disciples asked him how to pray, he replied- "Our Father in heaven, hallowed be thy name..."
See, he never said to pray to himself, but to pray to God who wasn't on earth..:)

PS- I worship the woman in the chip shop but that doesn't mean I think she's God..:)
 

Maldarker

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I said the fearless KJV is my favourite, it says "worship" and I also use other translations for cross-reference..:)

Returning to the "was Jesus God?" debate-
When the disciples asked him how to pray, he replied- "Our Father in heaven, hallowed be thy name..."
See, he never said to pray to himself, but to pray to God who wasn't on earth..:)

PS- I worship the woman in the chip shop but that doesn't mean I think she's God..:)
to worship that person like that would be a sin ;) watchout old man. Satan comes as a roaring lion.
 

Tidal

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to worship that person like that would be a sin ;) watchout old man. Satan comes as a roaring lion.

1- Yes, Jesus said he wants friends, not fawning servants (John 15:15)..:)

2- As for Satan, let's not forget that he doesn't always go around like a lion, as he often operates in subtle stealth mode so that most people don't even realise he's trying to influence their thoughts.
In Gibson's "The Passion of the Christ', he's accurately portrayed in the pic below as a character lurking in the shadows, quietly scheming and plotting as he reads our minds to pick up on anything he can inflame to use against us.
Most Christians can sense when he's probing us and ignore him, but the poor saps (nonchristians, atheists and even some christians) who can't sense him are the ones who he has for breakfast-

 

Lil axe

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i wondered - in genesis 1:26,
who is god talking to, when god says - "let us make man in our image"
 
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i wondered - in genesis 1:26,
who is god talking to, when god says - "let us make man in our image"
It would’ve been obvious to the Hebrews because Elohim (God) is a plural word (im is a masculine plural suffix). It even comes through in the translation, let us make man in our image. The spirit of God was upon the face of the waters, even in the beginning
 

Nikōn

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It would’ve been obvious to the Hebrews because Elohim (God) is a plural word (im is a masculine plural suffix). It even comes through in the translation, let us make man in our image. The spirit of God was upon the face of the waters, even in the beginning
@Lil axe

I think it's very obvious that the passage and whole chapter even, is written in a manner that is meant to be a polemic against the Babylonian/Sumerian creation myth. The idea of the One God proclaiming the creation of things in this specific manner is a way of pointing the finger back at the Babylonians/Sumerians with their convoluted creation cosmology with all of it's deities doing stupid things and even slipping up trying to create things.
The holy 'we' is similar, upholding the sovereignty of the One God.
In it's ancient context the authors of Genesis are intending no more than this middle finger to their pagan/polytheistic neighbors. I think it's awesome.
 

AmazingGrace

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I guess all 3 religions can agree on that the main topic is dealing with sin. And I don't see all 3 of them to deal with it the same way. So either this one God radically changed His mind through out history, there is context that needs to be explained, or we're dealing with a different gods.

When I see how Jews and Christians relay on blood sacrifices in the matter of sin - specifically sacrifices of animals and sacrifice of Jesus respectively - I find it strange how Islam deals with problem of sin with good deeds - relaying on yourself.

- the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness." (Hebrews 9:22)
In the Bible God in His holiness can't ignore sin if somebody wants to reach to Him. You have to deal with the sin first.
That's why we see animal sacrifices in whole OT, especially since establishment of Levitical priesthood and sacrificial system in Israel, but Job and Abraham for example sacrificed animals to God as well.

OT also contains promise of a new, better covenant, and prophecies of the Lamb of the God, who will wash away all sins of the world - fulfilled in Jesus. Therefore no more animal sacrifices were necessary after He died on the cross. His sacrifice reconciled us with God forever, and washed all our sins, so now we can come before God boldly, without fear and without animal sacrifices. Why Jews don't see this? According to messianic Jews prophecies about Jesus are ignored, not read in synagogues, not talked about, or not explained, so your ordinary Jew usually doesn't know about them.

On the other hand in Islam people have list of things they should do, and even then can only hope they did enough to get into heaven.

I would find it really strange if after 4600 years God suddenly changed his mind from sacrifices to having to only rely on your own good deeds.
 

Nikōn

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I would find it really strange if after 4600 years God suddenly changed his mind from sacrifices to having to only rely on your own good deeds.
Well on that, for the mode of salvation to change at all between the creation of the universe to the day of judgement would be pretty strange. One would think that God would stay consistent for all people.

On soteriology, it is expected for Christians to misrepresent the theology of the ancient Israelites and Judaism via particularly the writings of Paul.
Animal sacrifices are easy to do you just need to breed the animals to sacrifice, it was a very common practice in the ancient world.
The Ancient Israelites practiced it just as their neighboring nations did. In the Torah and the Tanakh (Old Testament) as a whole, animal sacrifice is NOT the mode of salvation, repentance is.
In both Judaism and in Islam, a person atones and repents for their own sins. It is only through God directly.
Christianity on the other end has this very fanatical idea of a single substitutional human sacrifice which abrogates self-atonement. The function of this substitutional sacrifice remains a matter of incoherence, as a substitutional sacrifice realistically can only be situational (and limited to a specific historical context) and not universal. Whereas self-atonement of a believer to God is universal.

On sacrifice more broadly, it's a pretty deep thing in our subconscious. We naturally have an irrational impulse to sacrifice things. Over history this has "reformed" to becoming taken as a poetic metaphor rather than literal sacrifice.
Instead of sacrificing your cattle, you now "sacrifice" your time or your money or your possessions, etc towards a perceived greater good.

In the same way that Christianity used Jesus to do this to abrogate the Jewish animal sacrifice practices, so too did the Hindus nominally do this in their own reforms where they turned from animal sacrifice towards developing systems of meditation and yoga.
The Greeks were also gravitating towards related thought too regarding their sacrificial practices and then growing to metaphoricalize it.

I find this process throughout history, which Christianity follows suite with (rather than going against), to be intriguing. To show what I mean, if I say the words "animal sacrifice", you'll probably get squeamish. It's quite ridiculous.


Anyway in ancient Israel and in Judaism, animal sacrifice was a very popular practice but it was never the mode of salvation, repentance was. Repentance is in Islam likewise.
To show how inescapable it is, when you peel apart all of the fluffy language and overexaggerated symbiology, Christianity has the same basic mode of salvation only dressed up more convoluted.
As for Jesus's own words on this matter, Matthew 5:17-20. Contrary to what you will staunchly continue to believe, Jesus didn't abrogate anything, he denied it explicitly.


Since you mentioned Islam, again, this verse is quite pertinent:

Qur'an, Surah 2:177
Righteousness is not to turn your faces to the east or the west;
rather, righteousness is [personified by] those who have faith in God and the Last Day,
the angels, the Book, and the prophets, and who give their wealth, for the love of Him,
to relatives, orphans, the needy, the traveller and the beggar,
and for [the freeing of] the slaves, and maintain the prayer and give the zakāt,
and those who fulfill their covenants, when they pledge themselves,
and those who are patient in stress and distress,
and in the heat of battle. They are the ones who are true [to their covenant],

and it is they who are the Godwary.
 

Maes17

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I respect those who have a different take on this, but here's mine. I don't think that we are born into this world with the requirement to find the one true religious text and to then follow it to the letter. If this were the case then, simply due to the accident of birth, many good people who happened to be born in cultures following the 'wrong' religion would be damned for it. I think we're born with the capacity to know right from wrong, to discern truth from falsehood, to make good decisions and to learn that a system of morality is ultimately of benefit to all.

I look at all the religious texts as having potential meaning and perhaps offering a glimpse of the divine, but all of them are subject to the dangers of this world, whether in translation, forging, interference with the text or faulty understanding or deception of the original author. I believe them when they tell us that we live in a world surrounded by evil and that we are in a spiritual battle.

If God had wanted us to accept these texts 100% without question they would be engraved on the heavens or we'd be born with them already a part of us. When I read the Bible, some of the passage about how to conduct slavery, or the genocide of the Midianites, I don't think these are the words of God, I think they were written by people justifying their own actions or wishes. I think the depiction of Yahweh is a mixture of some of the storm God, a God that demands blood sacrifice, beliefs of the ancients with a different loving God that wants us to see through the deception and overcome it. I think owning people as property is wrong, I think killing children is wrong. That's what my heart tells me, if I am deceived then I will pay the consequences.

I think the path of Biblical or Quranic or any other texts inerrancy too easily leads people to disaster, because those narrow interpretations of ancient writings can be twisted to justify any manner of barbarities as the history of the inquisition, the crusades, even the recent occupation of Raqqa or enslavement of the Yazidis demonstrates. I think we have to look outside around us, take value where we can, try to discern the good from the bad, but also look within and always seek truth, even if it conflicts with what the majority or our friends think. That's my working theory at least!
Yep. Every form of material is edited/twisted some shape or form
 

AmazingGrace

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Well on that, for the mode of salvation to change at all between the creation of the universe to the day of judgement would be pretty strange. One would think that God would stay consistent for all people.

On soteriology, it is expected for Christians to misrepresent the theology of the ancient Israelites and Judaism via particularly the writings of Paul.
Animal sacrifices are easy to do you just need to breed the animals to sacrifice, it was a very common practice in the ancient world.
The Ancient Israelites practiced it just as their neighboring nations did. In the Torah and the Tanakh (Old Testament) as a whole, animal sacrifice is NOT the mode of salvation, repentance is.
In both Judaism and in Islam, a person atones and repents for their own sins. It is only through God directly.
Christianity on the other end has this very fanatical idea of a single substitutional human sacrifice which abrogates self-atonement. The function of this substitutional sacrifice remains a matter of incoherence, as a substitutional sacrifice realistically can only be situational (and limited to a specific historical context) and not universal. Whereas self-atonement of a believer to God is universal.

On sacrifice more broadly, it's a pretty deep thing in our subconscious. We naturally have an irrational impulse to sacrifice things. Over history this has "reformed" to becoming taken as a poetic metaphor rather than literal sacrifice.
Instead of sacrificing your cattle, you now "sacrifice" your time or your money or your possessions, etc towards a perceived greater good.

In the same way that Christianity used Jesus to do this to abrogate the Jewish animal sacrifice practices, so too did the Hindus nominally do this in their own reforms where they turned from animal sacrifice towards developing systems of meditation and yoga.
The Greeks were also gravitating towards related thought too regarding their sacrificial practices and then growing to metaphoricalize it.

I find this process throughout history, which Christianity follows suite with (rather than going against), to be intriguing. To show what I mean, if I say the words "animal sacrifice", you'll probably get squeamish. It's quite ridiculous.


Anyway in ancient Israel and in Judaism, animal sacrifice was a very popular practice but it was never the mode of salvation, repentance was. Repentance is in Islam likewise.
To show how inescapable it is, when you peel apart all of the fluffy language and overexaggerated symbiology, Christianity has the same basic mode of salvation only dressed up more convoluted.
As for Jesus's own words on this matter, Matthew 5:17-20. Contrary to what you will staunchly continue to believe, Jesus didn't abrogate anything, he denied it explicitly.


Since you mentioned Islam, again, this verse is quite pertinent:

Qur'an, Surah 2:177
Righteousness is not to turn your faces to the east or the west;
rather, righteousness is [personified by] those who have faith in God and the Last Day,
the angels, the Book, and the prophets, and who give their wealth, for the love of Him,
to relatives, orphans, the needy, the traveller and the beggar,
and for [the freeing of] the slaves, and maintain the prayer and give the zakāt,
and those who fulfill their covenants, when they pledge themselves,
and those who are patient in stress and distress,
and in the heat of battle. They are the ones who are true [to their covenant],

and it is they who are the Godwary.
Yes, repentance is the main requirement, without it sacrifice has no meaning.
But only because you're sorry, it doesn't erase the sin. If you tried to step into Holy of Holies after you only repented, you wouldn't live long. Because you didn't deal with the sin.
Same at a court. If you killed somebody and told the judge that you're really sorry, they wouldn't let you go. If you said you will start to donate to orphans and be nice to people, judge would not let you go. They would say "that's nice, but not enough. 15 years!"
Didn't Jesus say that even if you hate your friend, it's like you've killed him? You still have to pay for the sin. Or someone who is innocent (without sin) can pay it on your behalf.
 
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