Women who rebel..in Saudi Arabia

Lisa

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Funny.

We've already seen what happened to the Christian/secular West between the 18th century and present day, it was a crazy as hell ride, that's for sure!
You sure can clam up when you want to..I would think you’d want to prove to us Christians that we are wrong about muslims but you just go ahead and prove we are right after all.
 

Lisa

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In what way? you haven't really described anything you intend to state.
Muslims say that women can wear what they want, but here a muslim woman is wearing what she wants and are you happy for her? It doesn’t seem that way. So, then we who are in the know say that muslim women can’t wear what they want to but have to wear the tent, we are told we are wrong, seems like we have been right all along...
 

Serveto

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We've already seen what happened to the Christian/secular West between the 18th century and present day, it was a crazy as hell ride, that's for sure!
Do you mean that all of you Muslims don't want to follow the example? I think that many Western and Eastern progressives, and plenty of Christian Evangelicals, though theirs is largely a sub-conscious wish, won't rest until Irshad Manji, with Caitlyn Jenner as Maid of Honor, marries, correction remarries, her wife in the al-Masjid al-Haram and is then asked to lead the Isha Prayer ;).
 
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Do you mean that all of you Muslims don't want to follow the example? I think that many Western and Eastern progressives, and plenty of Christian Evangelicals, though theirs is largely a sub-conscious wish, won't rest until Irshad Manji, with Caitlyn Jenner as Maid of Honor, marries, correction remarries, her wife in the al-Masjid al-Haram and is then asked to lead the Isha Prayer ;).
Yes, that is a disturbing thought o_O

But modernity (and postmodernity) itself is very much a good reason why modernity (and postmodernity) is a bad thing. It's an insurvivable mess with no way to sustain itself, nor any way to balance it's own inner conflicts.
It's very much that 'end of history' kind of idea indeed. Once the underlying roots of what we associate with the achievements of it are identified, it is realized that the only way is down. On any level, social-ethical, political, economic and religious.

Aside from this people in general need to understand the motives and consequences of the things they do before jumping so far ahead to say that they have the final answer. A lot of this has to do with the propaganda of linear history against the previously known cyclical history (whether it be ages/aeons or Prophetic cycles, etc, it's all throughout the ancient world) of which the same ideas and their consequences are very very well know. In this day and age though people will take an ideology as a self-evident fact, rather than as an ideology. This is much of the problem with how incredibly intolerant the 'progressive' ideology is at bringing everything to total degeneracy. Sometimes the most harmless things result in the most insane chaos.
Whether we look to the Bible for instance (the forbidden fruit) or the Mahabharata (making a promise without knowing what the promise itself actually is), the proliferation is a clear extreme when it's actual underlying nature is unknown.

There is nothing inherently wrong with a woman walking around naked in public even, it's about what the nature of that idea as common place means for the rest of the society. Extremities always find their way to latch onto seemingly innocent things.
Probably the saddest part here is that the typical Westerner is as arrogant enough to think that modesty is oppression, when Islam itself is wise enough to know the consequences rejecting such things. I won't say that every Muslim understands the principle itself but the religion itself very much justifies this intellectually.

Anyway, as I said before, the West itself for the past 200 years has very much been a working example of why so many religions say what they say about many things (such as moral systems within religions and eschatology particularly).
 

Serveto

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Yes, that is a disturbing thought o_O

But modernity (and postmodernity) itself is very much a good reason why modernity (and postmodernity) is a bad thing. It's an insurvivable mess with no way to sustain itself, nor any way to balance it's own inner conflicts.
It's very much that 'end of history' kind of idea indeed. Once the underlying roots of what we associate with the achievements of it are identified, it is realized that the only way is down. On any level, social-ethical, political, economic and religious.

Aside from this people in general need to understand the motives and consequences of the things they do before jumping so far ahead to say that they have the final answer. A lot of this has to do with the propaganda of linear history against the previously known cyclical history (whether it be ages/aeons or Prophetic cycles, etc, it's all throughout the ancient world) of which the same ideas and their consequences are very very well know. In this day and age though people will take an ideology as a self-evident fact, rather than as an ideology. This is much of the problem with how incredibly intolerant the 'progressive' ideology is at bringing everything to total degeneracy. Sometimes the most harmless things result in the most insane chaos.
Whether we look to the Bible for instance (the forbidden fruit) or the Mahabharata (making a promise without knowing what the promise itself actually is), the proliferation is a clear extreme when it's actual underlying nature is unknown.

There is nothing inherently wrong with a woman walking around naked in public even, it's about what the nature of that idea as common place means for the rest of the society. Extremities always find their way to latch onto seemingly innocent things.
Probably the saddest part here is that the typical Westerner is as arrogant enough to think that modesty is oppression, when Islam itself is wise enough to know the consequences rejecting such things. I won't say that every Muslim understands the principle itself but the religion itself very much justifies this intellectually.

Anyway, as I said before, the West itself for the past 200 years has very much been a working example of why so many religions say what they say about many things (such as moral systems within religions and eschatology particularly).
The Kali Yuga, much like Chairman Mao's "revolution," is not a dinner party. Though it doesn't always keep me in place, I have my seat-belt buckled.
 

Dalit

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I wonder if that trail-blazing woman in Riyadh is the great-granddaughter of one of these women from 1920's Chicago?

Women being arrested for wearing one piece bathing suits, 1920s

In Chicago a woman is being arrested for defying a Chicago edict banning “abbreviated bathing suits” on beaches. 1922.

"Dressed in what would look to us like very conservative swimwear today, the women were being arrested for defying a ban on wearing their ‘brief swimsuits’ in public. In the early 1900s, modesty laws were very strict and required most women to wear long one piece garments as well as stockings. Even the men without shirts were banned from the beaches in Atlantic City, New Jersey, the reason being that the city didn’t want “gorillas on our beaches”."
Source
"Gorillas on our beaches" :p
 
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The Kali Yuga, much like Chairman Mao's "revolution," is not a dinner party. Though it doesn't always keep me in place, I have my seat-belt buckled.
Yes, the Kali Yuga very much (interestingly irreligion/Adharma, immorality and political corruption are major themes with that Yuga in many Hindu texts on the subject I've read).

Yes it's very much a ride to buckle up for, it's hard to know how long it will go for but the plantations have been prepared for us for a whole century. Now most of us live in computer/media land, [sigh]. There are always positives and negatives of course but yeah, it's only get harsher from here.

In a way this Saudi woman (as OP of thread) is more a mockery of how deranged and subdued the mainstream West is, rather than a statement against the 'Islamic culture' over there. I doubt she intended it as such but it is definitely poetic in that way.
 

Lisa

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Probably the saddest part here is that the typical Westerner is as arrogant enough to think that modesty is oppression, when Islam itself is wise enough to know the consequences rejecting such things.
Isn’t the women in the article dressed modestly enough? What is modest in wearing a tent and having to disappear?
And aren’t the women having to do so so the men don’t r*pe them as they can’t keep control of themselves? You act as if it was for a noble purpose that a woman should remain modest...when it’s done out of fear. It’s really sad actually...
 
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when it’s done out of fear.
That's the whole point of my post though, if it's "done out of fear" then they are completely lacking an understanding of why they're doing it in the first place.
Like you should know by now though, I don't hold a particularly favorable view towards Saudi itself. Although this case is clearly an edgy news story.

And aren’t the women having to do so so the men don’t r*pe them as they can’t keep control of themselves?
I would hope not so, that in itself is just another form of degeneracy.

You act as if it was for a noble purpose that a woman should remain modest...
Not noble inasmuch as it should be just common practice for people (men and women) to dress modestly in general, it's really not much to ask and it keeps things civilized.
 

TempestOfTempo

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You sure can clam up when you want to..I would think you’d want to prove to us Christians that we are wrong about muslims but you just go ahead and prove we are right after all.
Well, grammatically you were "wrong", or incorrect, when you capitalized "Christians" yet apparently, intentionally posted "Muslim" in lowercase letters. Pettiness usually does not prove a point. Especially when the point is, to quote Foghorn Leghorn, "about as sharp as a bowling ball.
 

TempestOfTempo

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I see the opposite one:
Don't you wish to be free from living in oppressive clothing?
Don't you want to live free of the double standards, that men can wear whatever they like but women must hide themselves *completely*
in case men refuse to control their own desires?
Don't you want to be free to show how God made you?
Don't you want to be free to enjoy the sunlight, the fresh air on your skin, the freedom of movement?


Is what you describe what is normal in Muslim countries?
In Australia 0nly fashion victims in capital cities would dress like what you describe.
In hot climate regional areas like mine, no makeup, basic everyday clothing, hairstyles that are comfortable for the woman.
Men also have restrictions regarding public apparel in Saudi Arabia.

The hijab is normal in Saudi Arabia, which is the location we are discussing here. It is also normal and accepted in most nations as well, Muslim or not.
 

TempestOfTempo

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Or to show she’s free and this is what freedom looks like?
If the females shes showing off to cannot afford or otherwise avail themselves of the material items you are purporting have made that woman "free"..... well, lets just agree that you and I have very different definitions of personal liberty lol
 
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