Women who rebel..in Saudi Arabia

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#1
Some rebel women have started to shun the obligatory abaya when they leave the house in a bold push for social liberties by young Saudis.

The billowy over-garment, usually all-black, is customary public wear for women in the ultra-conservative Islamic kingdom, where it is widely seen as a symbol of piety.

Last year Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman hinted during an interview with CBS that the dress code may be relaxed, saying the robe was not mandatory in Islam.

Defiant Mashael al-Jaloud, 33, turned heads and drew gasps as she strutted through a Riyadh mall last week without a body-shrouding abaya.
0FDFE1B7-93D2-4E7C-9904-33656E150984.jpeg
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ng-malls-western-clothing-shunning-abaya.html
 





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#2
Of course, an Iranian woman tried that too...
1FDF6CDC-5727-4B25-BCA9-22EA1AB24A20.jpeg
She took her traditional hijab off her head and held it aloft on a stick in protest. Now, Vida Movahedi has been sentenced to one year in an Iranian jail for her act during the dramatic protests during the winter of 2017 - 2018.

The young woman's lawyer, Payam Derafshan, confirmed to AFP news an earlier statement he made to Iran's IRNA state news agency that his client was convicted of "encouraging corruption and debauchery" for breaking the law requiring women to wear the traditional headscarf.
https://m.jpost.com/Middle-East/Iranian-women-sentence-to-jail-for-refusing-to-wear-hijab-586886
 





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#3
Its likely that initially, mainly wealthy females who can afford (in various respects) to "liberate" themselves of the same sort of garments the virgin mother Mary wore will engage in this behavior. Eventually they might be able to cajole similar behavior from less-wealthy/connected or outright poor females whom would function as cannon fodder for this "movement".

What is the statement being made by the woman in the first picture? "You backward simpletons..... dont you wish to become entrapped in the never-ending consumer and body-identity loop of inadequacy? What, you dont wish to constantly feel the pressure that you arent good enough as is? You dont have a burning desire to smear chemical products all over you face, body and hair.... to mutilate and manipulate your physicality, chasing an unobtainable, Western standard of human aesthetics? Hmmm.... you dont wish to attempt to validate yourself through the purchase of overpriced, under-produced "designer" clothing? You fools, how will you ever keep up with the Kardashians at that rate?!?"
 





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#6
I dont think shes saying that at all. I think the situation is much closer to what I outlined in my previous post.
No, she’s saying I’m free and you can be too. The women in the tents are scared to do the same thing, they don’t want to end up like the women sentenced in Iran.
 





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#7
No, she’s saying I’m free and you can be too. The women in the tents are scared to do the same thing, they don’t want to end up like the women sentenced in Iran.
I guess it is worth mentioning that Im not making declarative statements about the female in the picture. Im asking questions and offering possible explanations. You are commenting as though you have somehow divined her true intent.
 





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#8
I guess it is worth mentioning that Im not making declarative statements about the female in the picture. Im asking questions and offering possible explanations. You are commenting as though you have somehow divined her true intent.
Why ditch an article of clothing if not to be free of it?
 





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#9
Why ditch an article of clothing if not to be free of it?
Why flaunt your expensive clothes, dyed hair, plastic surgery, botox injections and etc. in front of females whom either cannot, or will not be able to safely engage in similar behavior? Why make such statements in a place they will not be accepted in to a people whom couldn't avail themselves of this excess even if they wished to imitate her behavior?

Likely reasons might be to sew immorality, agitate the populace, induct them into the cult of inadequate body image and try to wring every cent they can out of females whom have very little defenses against the coming commercial, corporate onslaught.
 





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#10
Why ditch an article of clothing if not to be free of it?
I wonder if that trail-blazing woman in Riyadh is the great-granddaughter of one of these women from 1920's Chicago?

Women being arrested for wearing one piece bathing suits, 1920s

In Chicago a woman is being arrested for defying a Chicago edict banning “abbreviated bathing suits” on beaches. 1922.

"Dressed in what would look to us like very conservative swimwear today, the women were being arrested for defying a ban on wearing their ‘brief swimsuits’ in public. In the early 1900s, modesty laws were very strict and required most women to wear long one piece garments as well as stockings. Even the men without shirts were banned from the beaches in Atlantic City, New Jersey, the reason being that the city didn’t want “gorillas on our beaches”."
Source
 





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#11
Its likely that initially, mainly wealthy females who can afford (in various respects) to "liberate" themselves of the same sort of garments the virgin mother Mary wore will engage in this behavior. Eventually they might be able to cajole similar behavior from less-wealthy/connected or outright poor females whom would function as cannon fodder for this "movement".

What is the statement being made by the woman in the first picture? "You backward simpletons..... dont you wish to become entrapped in the never-ending consumer and body-identity loop of inadequacy? What, you dont wish to constantly feel the pressure that you arent good enough as is? You dont have a burning desire to smear chemical products all over you face, body and hair.... to mutilate and manipulate your physicality, chasing an unobtainable, Western standard of human aesthetics? Hmmm.... you dont wish to attempt to validate yourself through the purchase of overpriced, under-produced "designer" clothing? You fools, how will you ever keep up with the Kardashians at that rate?!?"
I see the opposite one:
Don't you wish to be free from living in oppressive clothing?
Don't you want to live free of the double standards, that men can wear whatever they like but women must hide themselves *completely*
in case men refuse to control their own desires?
Don't you want to be free to show how God made you?
Don't you want to be free to enjoy the sunlight, the fresh air on your skin, the freedom of movement?

Why flaunt your expensive clothes, dyed hair, plastic surgery botox injections and etc. in front of females whom either cannot, or will not be able to safely engage in similar behavior? Why make such statements in a place the will not be accepted in to a people whom couldn't avail themselves to this excess even if they wished to imitate her behavior?

Likely reasons might be to sew immorality, agitate the populace, induct them into the cult of inadequate body image and try to wring every cent they can out of females whom have very little defenses against the coming commercial, corporate onslaught.
Is what you describe what is normal in Muslim countries?
In Australia 0nly fashion victims in capital cities would dress like what you describe.
In hot climate regional areas like mine, no makeup, basic everyday clothing, hairstyles that are comfortable for the woman.
 





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#12
Likely reasons might be to sew immorality, agitate the populace, induct them into the cult of inadequate body image and try to wring every cent they can out of females whom have very little defenses against the coming commercial, corporate onslaught.
Or to show she’s free and this is what freedom looks like?
 





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#13
I wonder if that trail-blazing woman in Riyadh is the great-granddaughter of one of these women from 1920's Chicago?

Women being arrested for wearing one piece bathing suits, 1920s


In Chicago a woman is being arrested for defying a Chicago edict banning “abbreviated bathing suits” on beaches. 1922.


"Dressed in what would look to us like very conservative swimwear today, the women were being arrested for defying a ban on wearing their ‘brief swimsuits’ in public. In the early 1900s, modesty laws were very strict and required most women to wear long one piece garments as well as stockings. Even the men without shirts were banned from the beaches in Atlantic City, New Jersey, the reason being that the city didn’t want “gorillas on our beaches”."

I don’t see how this is the same thing. The woman in Riyadh would like to not wear a tent when she leaves the house.
 





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#14
Or to show she’s free and this is what freedom looks like?
It sounds as though she is putting into practice what Crown Prince Mohammad Bin Salman said, or, as the article you posted puts it ...

"Last year Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman hinted during an interview with CBS that the dress code may be relaxed, saying the robe was not mandatory in Islam."

In other words, as many of the especially female Muslims on this board have been saying all along, the covering of women with the abaya is a cultural, not specifically religious practice.
I don’t see how this is the same thing. The woman in Riyadh would like to not wear a tent when she leaves the house.
It's not the same thing, exactly. On the other hand, it is an analogy from history. Some American women, in the 1920's, also wanted to be free to not dress "modestly," in long, one-piece garments and stockings, the equivalent of their "tent," which broke with then conventional standards of what, exactly, constituted "modesty." The arrests show the result.
 





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#15
It's not the same thing, exactly. On the other hand, it is an analogy from history. American women, in the 1920's, also wanted to be free to not "dress modestly," in long dresses and stockings, the equivalent of their "tent," which broke with then conventional standards of what, exactly, constituted "modesty." The arrests show the result.
The you give them an inch they take a mile philosophy? Is that what muslim men would be worried about, or that the bruises would show then?

It sounds as though she is putting into practice what Crown Prince Mohammad Bin Salman said, or, as the article you posted puts it ...

"Last year Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman hinted during an interview with CBS that the dress code may be relaxed, saying the robe was not mandatory in Islam."
In other words, as many of the especially female Muslims on this board have been saying all along, the covering of women with the abaya is a cultural, not specifically religious practice.
Why is she a rebel then if its ok to go without the tent? And, they just got the right to drive..so there is some mandatory restrictions on women..with muslims though, they try to hide what the truth is sometimes...but bloody your babies head and apparently that’s ok.
https://vigilantcitizenforums.com/threads/more-from-the-religion-of-peace.6286/
 





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#16
The you give them an inch they take a mile philosophy? Is that what muslim men would be worried about, or that the bruises would show then?
This is your typical pablum. Further to @TempestOfTempo's point, perhaps, I have noticed, and speaking of bruises, that the fiercest defenders of the facial veil are often Hollywood celebrities: immediately after their plastic surgery and before their bruises have healed.
Why is she a rebel then if its ok to go without the tent?
You and the article's author might see her as a rebel, but I see her as a trail-blazer. And I say more power to her! It remains to be seen if Crown Prince MBS continues to back her and put his money where his mouth is.

Your linking me to the Ashura Festival, a Shia thing with, as far as I know, nothing to establish the practice in the Quran or ahadith, is analogous to the Philippinos crucifying themselves and self-flagellating at Easter time, with nothing to establish the practice in the New Testament.
 





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#17
This is your typical pablum.
I suppose..I also could have said that they need to be hidden away so that their men aren’t tempted to r*pe them...which is the main point of the tent.

Your linking me to the Ashura Festival, a Shia thingy with, as far as I know, nothing to establish the practice in the Quran or ahadith, is analogous to the Philippinos crucifying themselves and self-flagellating at Easter time, with nothing to establish the practice in the New Testament.
Ya, its that shia thingy that no muslim here..at least @Infinityloop wouldn’t say is wrong...which seems very strange to me. Then this article about how this rebel walks down the street with no tent on. Seems weird doesn’t it?
 





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#18
... Then this article about how this rebel walks down the street with no tent on. Seems weird doesn’t it?
I cannot tell you how weird. The self-flagellating and crucifying Philippinos, the bloodied Ashura bacchantes, American women being arrested in 1920's Chicago for showing legs, Hollywood celebrities surreptitiously going behind the veil until their plastic surgery heals, and Crown Prince MBS running the risk of civil war by possibly enraging the far-right Wahabbist mutawah, or "religious police," who in turn have historically validated and propped up the Saudi monarchy for curtailing what seems the cultural, not religious practice of Saudi women having to wear the abaya. Now that you mention it, this is one bloody weird planet, and that was one long, run-on sentence I just wrote, badly in need of editing.
 





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#19
I cannot tell you how weird. The self-flagellating and crucifying Philippinos, the bloodied Ashura bacchantes, American women being arrested in 1920's Chicago for showing legs, Hollywood celebrities surreptitiously going behind the veil until their plastic surgery heals, and Crown Prince MBS running the risk of civil war by possibly enraging the far-right Wahabbist mutawah, or "religious police," who in turn have historically validated and propped up the Saudi monarchy for curtailing what seems the cultural, not religious practice of Saudi women having to wear the abaya. Now that you mention it, this is one bloody weird planet, and that was one long, run-on sentence I just wrote, badly in need of editing.
Ya know, I gave @Infinityloop every chance to say what they were doing was wrong, but nope not a peep that it was wrong.

Ya, its a strange world alright where a woman walking down the street without her tent would be headline news!