DevaWolf
Veteran
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2019
- Messages
- 537
That is a strange doctrine! The only other people I have heard claim this is the Jehovahs Witnesses (though they seemed to relax a bit on it after their membership exceeded 144,000 ;-)Just out of curiosity, what do the Christians here think of that number in the Bible?
Member @TokiEl said this was the maximum number of people who will be saved and added a Bible verse to prove it.
Is this true and if so how does this constitute fairness and righteous judgement of God?
No, that is not true.Just out of curiosity, what do the Christians here think of that number in the Bible?
Member @TokiEl said this was the maximum number of people who will be saved and added a Bible verse to prove it.
Is this true and if so how does this constitute fairness and righteous judgement of God?
Verse 9 shows the 'fruits of their labor.' You may like one of the literal versions, if you choose to investigate for yourself.Actually, that number refers to the number of men sealed away by God to preach to the rest of the world during the tribulation. They're supposed to represent each Israelite bloodline. It has nothing to do with going to heaven.
You misrepresent what i said.Just out of curiosity, what do the Christians here think of that number in the Bible?
Member @TokiEl said this was the maximum number of people who will be saved and added a Bible verse to prove it.
Is this true and if so how does this constitute fairness and righteous judgement of God?
But are the holy ones “holier than thou”?You misrepresent what i said.
I didn't say only 144 000 will be saved.
I said there are 144 000 holy Christians. And i also said there are many more righteous Christians.
What is it with these 144 000 Christians that sets them apart from the rest ?But are the holy ones “holier than thou”?
Within Methodism, John Wesley had the idea of “Christian Perfection”.
I only came across this after going to a Methodist Church for twenty years!
Christian perfection
Christian perfection is the name given to various teachings within Christianity that describe the process of achieving spiritual maturity or perfection. The ultimate goal of this process is union with God characterized by pure love of God and other people as well as personal holiness or sanctification. Various terms have been used to describe the concept, such as "Christian holiness", "entire sanctification", "perfect love", the "baptism with the Holy Spirit", the "second work of grace", and the "second blessing".
Certain traditions and denominations teach the possibility of Christian perfection, including the Catholic Church, where it is closely associated with consecrated life. It is also taught in Methodist churches and the holiness movement, in which it is usually known as Wesleyan perfection, Christian perfection or entire sanctification.
Other denominations, such as the Lutheran and Reformed churches, reject teachings associated with Christian perfection as contrary to the doctrine of salvation by faith alone. Critics of the doctrine sometimes term it "sinless perfection", but this terminology is rejected by Christians who believe in the possibility of Christian perfection.
P.s. Not sure I agree with the Methodist view.... I just went to one of their churches!!!!
Correction; I Misunderstood What you said. It was not meant to cause offence, I just want to understand what you are talking about.You misrepresent what i said.
I didn't say only 144 000 will be saved.
I said there are 144 000 holy Christians. And i also said there are many more righteous Christians.
But how can they be without fault? Do you know how to attain such a state?What is it with these 144 000 Christians that sets them apart from the rest ?
They are without fault before the throne of God !
There are also Christians who will be persecuted and beheaded for keeping the commandments of God and their testimony of Jesus Christ. These will live again and even reign with Jesus forever and ever.
What does sealed away by God mean?Actually, that number refers to the number of men sealed away by God to preach to the rest of the world during the tribulation. They're supposed to represent each Israelite bloodline. It has nothing to do with going to heaven.
That's what I don't understand either, but there are Christian groups who believe itWhy would the number of people going to heaven be that exact in that way?
I would expect it to be more like 783,152,965
Right so they are the same people who get away through the rapture?From what I understand, it refers to them being marked so that none of the "plagues" of the tribulation touch them. They'll be protected from them.
I didn't take offence but i never said only 144 000 will be saved. I said there are 144 000 who are without fault or holy and those will be sealed by God when the great tribulation begins. What makes them holy or without fault ?Correction; I Misunderstood What you said. It was not meant to cause offence, I just want to understand what you are talking about.
So Jesus managed to make only 144 000 without fault before God ? What about the rest ?Jesus. Jesus makes us without fault before God. It is impossible for anyone to have lived without sinning. If the only way we can be reconciled to God is through the sacrifice of His son then our salvation is tangent on His grace and His grace alone. While it's important to starve our flesh and flee from temptation to sin, OUR actions are not what bring us salvation or purchase OUR righteousness because it is IMPOSSIBLE for man to save himself through works. Were that possible then Jesus would not have had to die.
No they are not righteous... they are holy. The righteous will be persecuted and beheaded... and that's how they save their lives.From my limited understanding of the scriptures, they'll be the only righteous ones left on earth at that time -not because they're the total number of saved but because the rest are no longer on earth. I don't know much about the revelation timeline or where the rapture fits in If there will even be one but from what I've read it does seem like everyone else just sort of . . . Disappears around the time of God's Wrath?
And how do they become holy, or are they holy to begin with?No they are not righteous... they are holy. The righteous will be persecuted and beheaded... and that's how they save their lives.