Will only 144.000 Christians go to heaven?

DevaWolf

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#1
Just out of curiosity, what do the Christians here think of that number in the Bible?

Member @TokiEl said this was the maximum number of people who will be saved and added a Bible verse to prove it.

Is this true and if so how does this constitute fairness and righteous judgement of God?
 





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#2
Just out of curiosity, what do the Christians here think of that number in the Bible?

Member @TokiEl said this was the maximum number of people who will be saved and added a Bible verse to prove it.

Is this true and if so how does this constitute fairness and righteous judgement of God?
That is a strange doctrine! The only other people I have heard claim this is the Jehovahs Witnesses (though they seemed to relax a bit on it after their membership exceeded 144,000 ;-)
 





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#3
I believe, like almost everything else in the the Book of Revelation, that those numbers are Symbolic. If you study numbers in the Bible very often they represent a large number. For example:

Josh 23:10 One man of you shall chase a thousand: for the Lord your God, he it is that fighteth for you, as he hath promised you.

Is a literal one man going to chase a literal thousand? No its symbolism that few men of Israel will chase many men as they enter the Promise Land.

1 Kings 3:4 And the king went to Gibeon to sacrifice there; for that was the great high place: a thousand burnt offerings did Solomon offer upon that altar
.

A literal thousand or a great number?

Ps 50:10 For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills.

Only the cattle upon a thousand hills? Or is that symbolism for ALL, or a VAST number?

I think you get the point, when things are spoken of in the thousands, many times it is Symbolic.

So what does the 144,000 represent? Well I believe its of no insignificance that it is 144. The Bible tells us that the Kingdom of Heaven is founded upon the Apostles and the Prophets:

Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

So the Old Testament was/is Represented by the 12 Tribes of Israel, the New Testament is Represented by the 12 Apostles. Therefore I believe that the 144 Represents the fullness of Gods People, 12x12= 144 and multiple that by 1000 = 144000. The 144000 is a symbolic # to represent all the People who have ever been or will be saved from the Old and the New Testament period.

Rev 14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

I am not going to break down all that Symbolism but if you look thru the Bible it describes the believers in God as being marked in their Forehead for God. It speaks of how all believers will sing a new song unto the Lord. It describes all of us as Holy and without Fault before God because of the Blood of Christ, and calls us the firstfruits.

It is the Church, the people saved in Christ that follow the Lamb, Jesus Christ, wherever He goes, again the 144,000 is symbolic of everyone saved in Christ...
 





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#4
Just out of curiosity, what do the Christians here think of that number in the Bible?

Member @TokiEl said this was the maximum number of people who will be saved and added a Bible verse to prove it.

Is this true and if so how does this constitute fairness and righteous judgement of God?
No, that is not true.

It's a perversion and misinterpretation of the verses, courtesy of the Jehovah's Witnesses. Verse 9 in the same chapter shows the reality-- a good exposition on the whole chapter though is a good idea.

The 144,000 is a literal number. A breakdown like that "12,000 from the tribe of... " would not be used in a figurative sense. It is a head count for a reason--> these [people] are numbered. The following verses go on to use this kind of terminology:

V.9​
After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude, which no one was able to number it, out of every nation, and tribes, and peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne ...​
From what I have read, my understanding is the same as @KingOfTheRock above--

Actually, that number refers to the number of men sealed away by God to preach to the rest of the world during the tribulation. They're supposed to represent each Israelite bloodline. It has nothing to do with going to heaven.
Verse 9 shows the 'fruits of their labor.' You may like one of the literal versions, if you choose to investigate for yourself.

REV 7 - BERAN LITERAL

REV 7 - YOUNG'S LITERAL
 





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#5
Just out of curiosity, what do the Christians here think of that number in the Bible?

Member @TokiEl said this was the maximum number of people who will be saved and added a Bible verse to prove it.

Is this true and if so how does this constitute fairness and righteous judgement of God?
You misrepresent what i said.

I didn't say only 144 000 will be saved.

I said there are 144 000 holy Christians. And i also said there are many more righteous Christians.
 





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#7
You misrepresent what i said.

I didn't say only 144 000 will be saved.

I said there are 144 000 holy Christians. And i also said there are many more righteous Christians.
But are the holy ones “holier than thou”?

Within Methodism, John Wesley had the idea of “Christian Perfection”.

I only came across this after going to a Methodist Church for twenty years!

Christian perfection

Christian perfection is the name given to various teachings within Christianity that describe the process of achieving spiritual maturity or perfection. The ultimate goal of this process is union with God characterized by pure love of God and other people as well as personal holiness or sanctification. Various terms have been used to describe the concept, such as "Christian holiness", "entire sanctification", "perfect love", the "baptism with the Holy Spirit", the "second work of grace", and the "second blessing".

Certain traditions and denominations teach the possibility of Christian perfection, including the Catholic Church, where it is closely associated with consecrated life. It is also taught in Methodist churches and the holiness movement, in which it is usually known as Wesleyan perfection, Christian perfection or entire sanctification.

Other denominations, such as the Lutheran and Reformed churches, reject teachings associated with Christian perfection as contrary to the doctrine of salvation by faith alone. Critics of the doctrine sometimes term it "sinless perfection", but this terminology is rejected by Christians who believe in the possibility of Christian perfection.

P.s. Not sure I agree with the Methodist view.... I just went to one of their churches!!!!
 





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#8
But are the holy ones “holier than thou”?

Within Methodism, John Wesley had the idea of “Christian Perfection”.

I only came across this after going to a Methodist Church for twenty years!

Christian perfection

Christian perfection is the name given to various teachings within Christianity that describe the process of achieving spiritual maturity or perfection. The ultimate goal of this process is union with God characterized by pure love of God and other people as well as personal holiness or sanctification. Various terms have been used to describe the concept, such as "Christian holiness", "entire sanctification", "perfect love", the "baptism with the Holy Spirit", the "second work of grace", and the "second blessing".

Certain traditions and denominations teach the possibility of Christian perfection, including the Catholic Church, where it is closely associated with consecrated life. It is also taught in Methodist churches and the holiness movement, in which it is usually known as Wesleyan perfection, Christian perfection or entire sanctification.

Other denominations, such as the Lutheran and Reformed churches, reject teachings associated with Christian perfection as contrary to the doctrine of salvation by faith alone. Critics of the doctrine sometimes term it "sinless perfection", but this terminology is rejected by Christians who believe in the possibility of Christian perfection.

P.s. Not sure I agree with the Methodist view.... I just went to one of their churches!!!!
What is it with these 144 000 Christians that sets them apart from the rest ?

They are without fault before the throne of God !


There are also Christians who will be persecuted and beheaded for keeping the commandments of God and their testimony of Jesus Christ. These will live again and even reign with Jesus forever and ever.
 





DevaWolf

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#9
You misrepresent what i said.

I didn't say only 144 000 will be saved.

I said there are 144 000 holy Christians. And i also said there are many more righteous Christians.
Correction; I Misunderstood What you said. It was not meant to cause offence, I just want to understand what you are talking about.
 





DevaWolf

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#10
What is it with these 144 000 Christians that sets them apart from the rest ?

They are without fault before the throne of God !


There are also Christians who will be persecuted and beheaded for keeping the commandments of God and their testimony of Jesus Christ. These will live again and even reign with Jesus forever and ever.
But how can they be without fault? Do you know how to attain such a state?
 





DevaWolf

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#11
Actually, that number refers to the number of men sealed away by God to preach to the rest of the world during the tribulation. They're supposed to represent each Israelite bloodline. It has nothing to do with going to heaven.
What does sealed away by God mean?
 





Etagloc

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#12
Why would the number of people going to heaven be that exact in that way?

I would expect it to be more like 783,152,965
 





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#15
Correction; I Misunderstood What you said. It was not meant to cause offence, I just want to understand what you are talking about.
I didn't take offence but i never said only 144 000 will be saved. I said there are 144 000 who are without fault or holy and those will be sealed by God when the great tribulation begins. What makes them holy or without fault ?

Well i leave that question hanging... maybe you know ?
 





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#17
Jesus. Jesus makes us without fault before God. It is impossible for anyone to have lived without sinning. If the only way we can be reconciled to God is through the sacrifice of His son then our salvation is tangent on His grace and His grace alone. While it's important to starve our flesh and flee from temptation to sin, OUR actions are not what bring us salvation or purchase OUR righteousness because it is IMPOSSIBLE for man to save himself through works. Were that possible then Jesus would not have had to die.
So Jesus managed to make only 144 000 without fault before God ? What about the rest ?
 





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#18
No, the 144,000 will not be the only ones to go to heaven from among the living when Jesus returns.

Revelation 7:9 says, "After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands." We see here the great multitude of the redeemed, “which no man could number,” gathered from every nation. In their hands they have palm branches, a symbol of victory over the world and sin, and they are clothed with “white robes” which represent Christ’s righteousness.

In Revelation 7:13, one of the 24 elders asks John, “Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?” In verse 14, he answers his own question: “These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.” This multitude have come through great adversity. Their characters have been purified through “the blood of the Lamb.” 1 John 1:7. If we are in Christ, we will have strength to go through any affliction. "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.” Philippians 4:13. He will give us peace, grace, and strength of character to live in the last days of earth’s history!
 





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#19
From my limited understanding of the scriptures, they'll be the only righteous ones left on earth at that time -not because they're the total number of saved but because the rest are no longer on earth. I don't know much about the revelation timeline or where the rapture fits in If there will even be one but from what I've read it does seem like everyone else just sort of . . . Disappears around the time of God's Wrath?
No they are not righteous... they are holy. The righteous will be persecuted and beheaded... and that's how they save their lives.