Will God be more forgiving for our sins in the end times?

Zakat

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As a matter of fact, death means only the death of the body, and the soul is transferred to another realm through the Angel of Death, who never yet visited Jesus.
 
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thanks for the clarification of the Lot story. Yeah it’s entirely different in terms of what Muslims believe the Quran says about the prophets. I guess that’s why we have difficulty in understanding why Jesus is so elevated because to us all the prophets were elevated. God chose them.

No the Quran holds both responsible, I’m sorry if the link I posted stated that, I should’ve read the stories more clearly. Here’s a quote from the Quran:
“But Satan whispered to them to make apparent to them that which was concealed from them of their private parts. He said, ‘Your Lord did not forbid you this tree except that you become angels or become of the immortal.’ And he swore [by Allah ] to them, ‘Indeed, I am to you from among the sincere advisors.’ So he made them fall, through deception. And when they tasted of the tree, their private parts became apparent to them, and they began to fasten together over themselves from the leaves of Paradise. And their Lord called to them, ‘Did I not forbid you from that tree and tell you that Satan is to you a clear enemy?’” [7:20-22]
They were both deceived by Satan and both to blame. We don’t believe in inherited or original sin as well.
Yeah, the link said both ate, but it was he who stretched out his hand and took it. The Bible says they both ate, but it was she who ate first and then gave some to Adam.

I guess the details matter to me.

We don’t see childbirth as a punishment for a woman. It’s actually an honour to be a mother and you can be granted heaven by being a dutiful mother and wife and women are seen as the first teacher’s of their children and the caretakers of their home. We believe every little good you do is recorded by angel scribes so imagine the amounts of good deeds a mother gets? From dawn until dusk your either feeding, cleaning, washing etc. All this is written and will weigh heavy on the scales on judgement day.

There is actually a Hadith (a saying of the prophet pbuh) where he speaks about the status of a mother

A mother’s status is much higher than father’s as stated in one of hadith of our beloved Prophet Muhammad (SAW): Once a man came to the Prophet Muhammad (SAW) and said: “O Messenger of Allah! Who from amongst mankind warrants the best companionship from me?”He replied: “Your mother.” The man asked: “Then who?” So He (PBUH) replied: “Your mother.” The man then asked: “Then who?” So the Prophet (PBUH) replied again: “Your mother.” The man then asked: “Then who?” So He (SAW) replied: “Then your father.” (Bukhari)

Even if someone has parents who aren’t Muslim, they are to be dutiful and respect them and cherish and be there for them as they were there for us when we were little.Your Lord has decreed that you worship none but Him and that you be kind to parents. Whether one or both of them attain old age in your life, say not to them a word of contempt, nor repel them, but address them in terms of honor. And out of kindness, lower to them the wing of humility and say, ‘My Lord! Bestow on them Your Mercy even as they cherished me in childhood.’” (Quran 17:23-24)

This is why you’ll find soo many Muslim families who have their parents living with them in adulthood. It’s not as common in The UK as the homes are quite small but many many families will have their parents living with them. Currently, my father in law who is in his late 70s is living with his eldest son and has been for well over a decade. He doesn’t have to worry about anything, he has his own room and eats meals with the family. Imagine the reward they’re also racking up for simply looking after their father?

Lastly, we don’t believe Eve steered Adam in the wrong path or women in general are responsible for men in that sense of misguidance. You’re only responsible for yourself and if you are a parent, you are responsible of course for your kids until they are of age where they can think and act for themselves and be judged for it, usually puberty.
Yes, the Bible says children are a gift from God, and childless women felt reproach, but im talking about the actual process.
The Bible says that Eve (and women, by extension) was punished by having increased pain, as opposed to how God's other creations give birth more painlessly.

And yeah, this honoring the mother over the father thing is not biblical, though it once again reminds me of catholicism with their Mary worship. Jesus speaks about our heavenly Father, not mother. God created a man (Adam) in His image, not a woman. The woman was created in man's image.

From what i understand Islam does not list "Father" as one of the names of God, perhaps someone can comfirm if this is true.
 
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it appears what you meant to ask is how all three are CONSISTENT with one another, i.e. in perfect agreement when properly translated and correctly understood, exactly as God promised.
Yes, thats what i meant.

Compare with:

Genesis 3:8-24
3:8 And they heard the voice of the "I AM" God [the tree of the Knowledge of Good-God] walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the Presence of the "I AM" God amongst the trees of the garden.
3:9 And the "I AM" God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where [art] thou?
3:10 And he said, I heard Thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I [was] naked; and I hid myself.
3:11 And He said, Who told thee that thou [wast] naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I COMMANDED thee that thou shouldest NOT eat?
3:12 And the man said, The woman whom Thou gavest [to be] with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.
3:13 And the "I AM" God said unto the woman, What [is] this [that] thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.
3:14 And the "I AM" God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou [art] cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
3:16 Unto the woman He said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire [shall be subject] to thy husband, and HE SHALL RULE OVER THEE.
3:17 And unto Adam He said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I COMMANDED thee, saying, Thou shalt NOT eat of it: cursed [is] the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat [of] it all the days of thy life (Eno. 96:12-13);
3:18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou [art], and unto dust shalt thou return.
3:20 And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.
3:21 Unto Adam also and to his wife did the "I AM" God make coats of skins, and clothed them.
3:22 And the "I AM" God said, Behold, the man is become as one of Us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of Life, and eat, and live for ever:
3:23 Therefore the "I AM" God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
3:24 So He drove out the man; and He placed at the East of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep The Way of the tree of Life.
Why not give the complete passage?

Genesis 3:1-7
1Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? 2And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: 3But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. 4And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: 5For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. 6And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. 7And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.


It clearly tells us that the serpent tricked the woman, and then she gave some to her husband. Yes, they both ate, but the serpent did ot trick him, instead he wrongfukky obeyed his wife.

Women are susceptible to tricks from satan. Women were worshipping the demonic "queen of heaven " in Jeremiah, women were weeping for tammuz in Ezekiel 8:14.

Jeremiah 7
18The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger

Ezekiel 8
14Then he brought me to the door of the gate of the LORD'S house which was toward the north; and, behold, there sat women weeping for Tammuz

Men should not obey women. Yet that is the inversion the world is pushing.

The serpent (Satan the liar/devil) told Eve that God was lying to her, and that if she believed him, instead of God, she would be like God, which, of course, coming from the liar (devil), was a LIE.
Wait, so you are acknowledging the serpent got Eve first?

When people turn to organized religion and their leaders, and place their trust in them instead of in God, they allow Lucifer/Satan/Iblis to work through the spiritually blind guides of those organized religions (priests, pastors, rabbis, imams, etc.) to mix up lies with the Truth, just the serpent (Lucifer/Satan/Iblis) did in the Garden of Eden to deceive Adam and Eve.
I have to agree with this. Seems organized religion and man made assumptions and additions are corrupting what God said.
The recent events have shown me this. Nowhere does the Bible say to worship the country of israel...
 

Flarepath

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Do you take everything for a joke?
As a Christian of course I do because we know this crazy world is just one big joke and not to be taken seriously.:)
"For we look at things unseen rather than the seen, for the seen are temporary, but the unseen are eternal" (2 Cor 4:18)
Anyway, a person without a sense of humour is like a ricketty wagon without springs, jolted by every pebble on life's road..:)

wagon-wreck.jpg
 

Flarepath

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Incidentally, I see somebody mentioned the Lot story, here ya go..:)-

1- LOT- "Don't look back towards Sodom and Gomorrah !"
2- WIFE- "Stop telling me what to do !"
3- Sodom / Gomorrah getting zapped
4- WIFE- ""My skin suddenly feels a little dry..."


rel-lots-wife.jpg
 

Flarepath

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Genesis 3:1-7-
"Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field.."
Yup, the serpent / snake (aka the devil) twisted poor little Evie round his little finger-

SATAN - "Hmm, that apple looks yummy.."
EVE - "I'm not supposed to touch it"
SATAN - "Don't be daft, if you don't have it Adam will, and then he'll laugh at you for being a dumb little girly, you know how men are"
EVE - "I'm forbidden to have it"
SATAN - "Hmm...Your skin looks a bit dry, fresh fruit would work wonders for your complexion"
EVE - "Leave me alone!"
SATAN - "It'll just rot if left on the tree, what a waste.."
EVE - "Shut up"
SATAN - "Apples are good for teeth, you don't want yours to turn black do you?"
EVE - "Oh be quiet!"
SATAN - "You'll get scurvy without vitamin C and your gums will puff up like a boxers gumshield"..
EVE - "Clam up!"
SATAN - "Okay okay, scuse me for breathing, none of my business if you want to end up looking like a cross between Mike Tyson and Nancy Pelosi"..
EVE - "Hmm okay, I'd better eat it, but don't tell anyone"
SATAN - "Sure, sure, you can trust me"..

rel-yummy.jpg
 

Haich

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And yeah, this honoring the mother over the father thing is not biblical, though it once again reminds me of catholicism with their Mary worship. Jesus speaks about our heavenly Father, not mother. God created a man (Adam) in His image, not a woman. The woman was created in man's image.

From what i understand Islam does not list "Father" as one of the names of God, perhaps someone can comfirm if this is true.
so just want to point out that we don’t ‘honour’ the mother over the father at all. Pagan Arabs were very callous and would bury their women or daughters alive if they weren’t carrying sons or if they were expecting daughters. So by giving women a shout out and explaining their importance but also highlighting that women were not responsible for what gender they were carrying, stamped out this practise.
Some verses on embryology and how we’re created:
Man should reflect on what he was created from. He is created from spurting fluid, emerging from between the backbone and ribs.” The Qur’ān, Chapter 86, Verse 5 to 7

Quran: Surah Az-zumar, 39:Ayah 6). “He makes you in the wombs of your mothers in stages, one after another, in three veils of darkness..” This statement is from Sura 39:6.

Proclaim! (Or Read!) in the name of thyLord and Cherisher, Who created. Created man, out of a leech-like Clot.” (Al Quran 96:1-2)


And made his progeny from a quintessence of despised fluid.” (Al Quran 32:8)

“Verily We created Man from a drop ofmingled sperm.” (Al Quran 76:2)

I think you’ll run into problems if you keep associating/being reminded of Catholicism as we simply do not worship women or Mary. The elevation I mentioned is not specific to Mary, all the prophets mentioned in the Quran are elevated and highly regarded. There are other women like the wife of Pharoah (the story of Moses) which are also respected.

So when Jesus says Heavenly Father, we don’t accept that he means that literally but figuratively. As there is a danger of associating partners with God we do not use that term. We do not refer to God as The Father as The Quran mentions a whole host of attributes that God has. So the main term would be ‘Rabb’ which means our Lord. This short article breaks it down well.
 
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so just want to point out that we don’t ‘honour’ the mother over the father at all. Pagan Arabs were very callous and would bury their women or daughters alive if they weren’t carrying sons or if they were expecting daughters. So by giving women a shout out and explaining their importance but also highlighting that women were not responsible for what gender they were carrying, stamped out this practise.
Some verses on embryology and how we’re created:
Man should reflect on what he was created from. He is created from spurting fluid, emerging from between the backbone and ribs.” The Qur’ān, Chapter 86, Verse 5 to 7

Quran: Surah Az-zumar, 39:Ayah 6). “He makes you in the wombs of your mothers in stages, one after another, in three veils of darkness..” This statement is from Sura 39:6.

Proclaim! (Or Read!) in the name of thyLord and Cherisher, Who created. Created man, out of a leech-like Clot.” (Al Quran 96:1-2)


And made his progeny from a quintessence of despised fluid.” (Al Quran 32:8)

“Verily We created Man from a drop ofmingled sperm.” (Al Quran 76:2)
By honor the mother over the father i meant what you said in the previous post:

A mother’s status is much higher than father’s as stated in one of hadith of our beloved Prophet Muhammad (SAW): Once a man came to the Prophet Muhammad (SAW) and said: “O Messenger of Allah! Who from amongst mankind warrants the best companionship from me?”He replied: “Your mother.” The man asked: “Then who?” So He (PBUH) replied: “Your mother.” The man then asked: “Then who?” So the Prophet (PBUH) replied again: “Your mother.” The man then asked: “Then who?” So He (SAW) replied: “Then your father.” (Bukhari


Instead i should have worded it as females having higher status than males, perhaps honor wasnt the correct word.

How did the pagan Arabs know which sex the unborn child was? I mean, without technology we don't know this these days.

Also, didnt pagan Arabs worship both male and female gods in pre Islamic times? Seems they would consider females important too


So when Jesus says Heavenly Father, we don’t accept that he means that literally but figuratively. As there is a danger of associating partners with God we do not use that term. We do not refer to God as The Father as The Quran mentions a whole host of attributes that God has. So the main term would be ‘Rabb’ which means our Lord. This short article breaks it down well.
Got it. The term "father" is not used.

I think you’ll run into problems if you keep associating/being reminded of Catholicism as we simply do not worship women or Mary. The elevation I mentioned is not specific to Mary, all the prophets mentioned in the Quran are elevated and highly regarded. There are other women like the wife of Pharoah (the story of Moses) which are also respected
I'm just comparing the biblical view of women with what i've learned so far (which is not much, yet) of the Islamic view.

As i'd previously been told that the differences mostly amounted to Jesus and the ressurection, i've been surprised to find so many differences.

So much so that im considering making a thread dedicated specifically to the differences between the Bible and Islam, unless such a thread already exists.
 

A Freeman

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IF one reads the Scripture with SPIRITUAL eyes, they should see how well the Old Covenant, New Covenant and the Koran/Quran are in perfect agreement with one another, when properly written and translated from their original texts and correctly understood.

From the book of Enoch 104:8-11

THE INCORRECT WRITING OF GOD'S WORDS PROPHESIED:-

104:8 They shall speak evil things; they shall utter falsehood (ch. 97:2); create a great creation (false religions and religious traditions and technology); and compose books of their own words (books of man-made laws; books of the religious traditions of their fathers; novels; etc.; etc.; etc. - ch. 68:13).

HOW TO RECOGNISE AND CORRECT THE MISTAKES:-

But when they shall write correctly all My words in their own languages,
104:9 They (My words) shall neither change nor diminish (Mark 13:31; Matt. 5:17-19); but when all shall be written correctly; ALL, which from the first I have uttered concerning them shall concur (John 10:35; Sura 15:9).
104:10 Another secret also I point out. To the righteous and the wise shall be given Books of joy, of integrity, and of great Wisdom. To them shall Books be given (Rev. 2:17), in which they shall believe (and Live by);
104:11 And in which they shall rejoice. And all the righteous shall be rewarded, who from these (Books) shall acquire the Knowledge of The Straight Way.

Enoch was God's First Prophet (Gen. 5:22-23). Enoch walked WITH God, i.e. Enoch's testimony pleased God, which is why Enoch was the only one of us that God ever "translated" (Heb. 11:5; Sura 19:56-57).

*translated directly to Judgment Day after learning what he needed to learn in one human lifetime, instead of requiring multiple human lifetimes over the past 6000 years

The Book of Enoch, which is the binding tie between the Bible and the Quran, was wrongly excluded from the Bible by the largest business on planet Earth: the Roman Catholic church.

Compare with:

WHY GOD HAS ALLOWED THESE FEW INCORRECT WRITINGS

Sura 22:52-55
22:52. Never did We send an Apostle or a Prophet before thee, but, when he framed a desire, Satan threw some (vanity) into his desire: but "I AM" will cancel anything (vain) that Satan throws in, and "I AM" will confirm (and establish) His Signs: for "I AM" is full of Knowledge and Wisdom:
22:53. THAT HE MAY MAKE THE SUGGESTIONS THROWN IN BY SATAN, BUT A TRIAL FOR THOSE IN WHOSE HEARTS IS A DISEASE AND WHO ARE HARDENED OF HEART: verily the wrong-doers are in a schism far (from the Truth):
22:54. And that those on whom Knowledge has been bestowed may learn that the (Koran) is the Truth from thy Lord, and that they may believe therein, and their hearts may be made humbly (open) to it: for verily "I AM" is the Guide, of those who believe, to The Straight Way (Matt. 7:13-14; John 14:6).
22:55. Those who reject Faith (Sura 3:55) will not cease to be in doubt concerning (Revelation) until The Hour (of Judgment) comes suddenly upon them, or there comes to them the Penalty of a Day of Disaster.

AND, EXACTLY AS FOUND IN THE BOOK OF ENOCH, HOW TO CORRECT THE MISTAKES

Sura 39:23. "I AM" has revealed (from time to time) the most beautiful Message in the form of a Book, CONSISTENT WITH ITSELF, (yet) repeating (its teaching in various aspects): the skins of those who fear their Lord tremble thereat; then their skins and their hearts do soften to the celebration of "I AM"'s praises (Prov. 1:7; 9:10). Such is the Guidance from "I AM": He guides therewith whom He pleases, but such as "I AM" leaves to stray, can have none to guide.


This is how we know when EVIL organized religions have tampered with the Book that God gave us, because these spiritually clueless idiots and barbarians don't know what they're doing when they attempt to unlawfully add or take away from God's Word (Deut. 4:2) which, by design, has layer upon layer of built in redundancy so that it's impossible for humans to tamper with it without being caught.

Proverbs 1:7 The fear of the "I AM" [is] the beginning of Knowledge: [but] fools despise Wisdom and instruction.
 
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Haich

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By honor the mother over the father i meant what you said in the previous post:

A mother’s status is much higher than father’s as stated in one of hadith of our beloved Prophet Muhammad (SAW): Once a man came to the Prophet Muhammad (SAW) and said: “O Messenger of Allah! Who from amongst mankind warrants the best companionship from me?”He replied: “Your mother.” The man asked: “Then who?” So He (PBUH) replied: “Your mother.” The man then asked: “Then who?” So the Prophet (PBUH) replied again: “Your mother.” The man then asked: “Then who?” So He (SAW) replied: “Then your father.” (Bukhari


Instead i should have worded it as females having higher status than males, perhaps honor wasnt the correct word.

How did the pagan Arabs know which sex the unborn child was? I mean, without technology we don't know this these days.

Also, didnt pagan Arabs worship both male and female gods in pre Islamic times? Seems they would consider females important too



Got it. The term "father" is not used.


I'm just comparing the biblical view of women with what i've learned so far (which is not much, yet) of the Islamic view.

As i'd previously been told that the differences mostly amounted to Jesus and the ressurection, i've been surprised to find so many differences.

So much so that im considering making a thread dedicated specifically to the differences between the Bible and Islam, unless such a thread already exists.
No sorry I still think I’m not being clear, we don’t put women above men, they’re both equal in the eyes of God with their own set of unique abilities and challenges. There are things men are praised for such as their strength and ability to protect their families. Women are also celebrated in their own way. Given the context of Pagan Arabia and how the viewed/treated women, it was important for the Quran to highlight they are indeed worthy of respect and praise. It’s not praising or ‘honouring’ women in comparison to men…and women do not have higher status at all, the men are the leaders and heads of households BUT Islam just places just as much importance on the woman’s role

sorry it was quite early when I typed that I didn’t mean they knew what the sex was. I’ll clarify. If a woman was known to birth daughters and not sons OR if a girl was born, the baby would be buried alive. There’s a verse that mentions this when on Judgement day the baby girl will ask it’s parents why it was buried:
https://quran.com/en/81:8/tafsirs/en-tafsir-maarif-ul-quran

They were pagans yes I don’t know of any female gods they worshipped to be honest, this isn’t something I have knowledge of. All I know is they didn’t treat women very well and would cheat on them often, it was a very patriarchal culture with no regard to anyone unless they were a man of class or stature. If you’re interested I could post some links on how it was I’ll have to dig them out. Or you could search ‘Quraysh society’ which was the main tribe at the time of revelation.

it’s a good idea I haven’t seen any threads on that topic specifically, I’d love to continue the discussion there as I too have learned some things. I definitely didn’t know that the pain of labour and childbirth was a consequence of Eve tempting Adam.
 

A Freeman

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On the subject of our heavenly Father and God...

There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with calling God our Father. In fact, those who refuse to do so very obviously don't know Him nor love Him.

Matthew 6:9-13
6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be Thy name.
6:10 Thy Kingdom come. Thy Will be done in earth, as [it is] in heaven.
6:11 Give us this day our daily bread.
6:12 And forgive us our debts and trespasses (if we truly repent), as we forgive our debtors and those who trespass against us (if they truly repent).
6:13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For Thine is The Kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

John 17:3 And THIS is Life Eternal, that they might KNOW Thee the ONLY True God, and Christ the Saviour, whom Thou hast sent.

We are the children of Whom/whom we choose to obey. If we choose to obey God and His Perfect Law of Liberty, then we are His Children. If we continue to obey Lucifer/Satan/Iblis and his made-up rules, legislation and religious traditions and superstitions (e.g. the talmud, catechism, book of mormon, hadith, etc.), then we are his children.

We are the children of Whom/whom we choose to obey.
 

Flarepath

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Perhaps I've been too jokey and friendly in VC up to now, so i think from now on I should kick the butts of people who deserve it, starting now with this Koran verse that says it's okay for muslim men to beat up their wives-..:)-

Qran-women2.jpg
 

Flarepath

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..There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with calling God our Father. In fact, those who refuse to do so very obviously don't know Him nor love Him...

Agreed, we Christians are the children of God himself and therefore have every right to call him Father..:)
"What does a believer have in common with an unbeliever?..Come out from among them and be separate, says the Lord, I will be a Father to you, and you shall be my sons and daughters" (2 Cor 6:14-18 )
 
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