Why Would God Create Conjoined Twins? (warning, Contains Graphic Content - Don't Eat Anything!)

Discussion in 'Religion and Spirituality' started by Mr. Blah, Jun 17, 2017.

  1. Mr. Blah

    Mr. Blah Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2017
    Messages:
    580
    Likes Received:
    628
    While this subject borders on the macabre, I believe that taking an unflinching look at natural extremes can provide us with important insights into how God, or nature, works.

    Such unique traits are fascinating because, on the one hand, we see the miracle of creation, but on the other hand, we see that something has gone horribly, horribly wrong. Something unexpected has happened, and nature seems unprepared to handle it. And this leads us to ask some interesting questions about the existence of the individual soul, and questions about who, or what, is behind the formation of these bodies.

    Dicephalic Parapagus Twins

    [​IMG]

    Let’s start with the inspirational twins Abby and Brittany Helsen. While in the womb, God or nature knitted them together in an amazing patchwork of organs and bones. The way these twins are joined, it smacks of design, almost as if someone carefully crafted their two bodies so that they could continue to operate in this way.

    But on the other hand, 75% of conjoined twins fail to survive. So if there is such a craftsman, he’s certainly not very good at designing viable conjoined twins.

    From a spiritual standpoint, we look at Abby and Brittany and see two separate spirits, as they clearly both have unique thoughts and personalities. So, as strange as it is to say this, if the spirit exists, it seems to reside inside one’s head. But if this is true… can two spirits share one brain?

    Craniofacial Duplication (Diprosopus)

    [​IMG] Fig. 1

    According to a 2002 article in the medical journal Radiology, “The rarest type of conjoined twins… is diprosopus, where a child is born with two faces on one head.”

    Diprosopus (which kinda sounds like a dinosaur) may not actually be a conjoined twin at all, but a duplication of the face caused by an excess of the (I kid you not) Sonic Hedgehog protein.

    In the case of Figure 1, it was found that some of the brain’s frontal lobes were also duplicated. But having these extra brain bits didn’t seem to translate to having an extra soul or dual personalities.

    [​IMG] Fig. 2.

    Indian-born baby Lali (Figure 2) has an even more pronounced second face. She too likely has the same (if not more) duplication of brain matter. But how much brain matter can be duplicated before we’re asking “Is this one person with two faces, or two people sharing one brain?” or “Did God insert one soul or two?”

    My guess is that any extra brain matter would become integrated into one singular sense of self. This is hinted at by the fact that baby Lali blinks all four of her eyes simultaneously.

    [​IMG] Fig. 3.

    More disturbing is when there is a lack of the Sonic Hedgehog protein, which can cause facial features to lack separation, sometimes resulting in a cyclops (Figure 3).

    If there is a designer, why his he allowing such things to happen? Is it necessary to have a certain number of two-headed, two-faced, cyclops babies? Are evil forces at play? Or does nature just sometimes make mistakes?

    Synecephalus

    [​IMG]

    Synecephalus (Figure 4) is a very rare type of conjoined twin where the twins share a head and face, but have four ears and two bodies. In other words, there’s little question that these are twins and not one person with duplicate features.

    Again, how would God handle the soul in this case? Would he insert one soul knowing that the two minds would become one? Or does he insert two souls, which might result in a two senses of self? Or does he not even bother, knowing that this project is doomed to fail? (And if it is doomed, why didn’t he end it sooner? Or not create it at all?)

    What I find particularly interesting about Figure 4 is how both rib cages come together. These cells continued to assemble themselves, assuming they were in the correct location. While nature may not have noticed that something had gone wrong, an intelligent designer should have, and should’ve terminated the project much earlier.

    Craniopagus

    Between these extremes are varying levels of craniopagus, where two twins are conjoined at the head. This type of conjoined twin is especially noteworthy because it can result in a partially shared brain.

    [​IMG] Fig. 5.

    Take the case of Canadian twins Tatiana and Krista Hogan (Figure 5). These adorable twins, born in 2006, have been the subject of several news stories and documentaries. As they learn to speak, they’re teaching us more about what it means to share part of a brain.

    It’s said that Tatiana and Krista share a thalamus, which connects their brain stems, and it appears this allows them to share some brain signals. They have shown many signs of being able to pick up on the other’s sensory input, and they often do things in unison. But each also has her own independent personality.

    If these two girls share overlapping brains, do they also share a percentage of a soul? If they each shared half a brain, would they have 1 soul, 1.5 souls or two?

    Parasitic Twins


    Lastly, and perhaps most disturbing, are parasitic twins.

    Unlike conjoined twins, a parasitic twin ceases development during gestation and becomes a partially developed vestigial formation upon the body of the other twin.

    Parasitic twins come in random shapes and sizes, and some even become completely entombed inside their twin. The cells of these parasitic twins find a way to survive, even where they were never intended.

    [​IMG]

    One type of parasitic twin is craniopagus parasiticus, where a parasitic head of a twin is attached to the head of another twin.

    [​IMG]

    In craniopagus parasiticus, God or nature doesn’t even bother to give a body to the poor parasitic head, so it has no chance of surviving on its own. Even if the head is conscious, doctors must remove it in order to give the more developed twin any chance at a normal life.

    From a spiritual perspective, one wonders if God gives parasitic heads a soul, and why he would allow such a cruel thing to happen to these children and their parents. Why would God force us to kill an infant, so that its twin may survive?

    From a naturalist perspective, I can see how a developing parasitical twin might think its needs are already being met, and fail to produce a second body.

    The other 75%

    But most of the above photos are of survivors. Few of us ever see pictures of the majority of conjoined twin that don’t survive.

    [​IMG] Fig. 6.

    Take, for example, the conjoined twins in Figure 6. In this case, the one twin died because its brother was growing directly out of his face, in the form of a garbled mess.

    How could a good God knit together something like this in a mother’s womb (Psalm 139:13)? Can God even put a soul into a mangled mess without a head? Why allow it if God can’t possibly use it? Or are we just looking at a tragic mistake of unguided nature?

    Who, or what, forms our bodies?

    There’s no question that life is complex. I find it miraculous that a few cells can multiply and grow into such complex organisms, replete with close-knit bones, organs, muscles, nerves, etc. How does each cell know where to go and what to become? There seems to be some central command orchestrating the entire project. But where is this oversight when it comes to conjoined twins?

    These bizarre mergers do not appear to be intentionally malicious. If Satan is behind them, why not just kill them instead of conjoining them? Why combine them in random ways? With random amounts of success and failure?

    Nor do these mergers speak to the work of a benevolent God, who is creating something new and magnificent. If God forms them in the womb, why does He fail so badly (Jeremiah 1:5)?

    Rather, these mergers appear undirected and unintentional, with each cell going about its own business, trying to integrate itself within the whole. When a cell runs up against something unexpected, like a twin, it latches on and says “Eh, close enough.”

    What might we expect if God forms our bodies?

    If we are being intelligently designed, we might expect the designer to look upon twins about to conjoin and say “No, no, no, that’s all wrong!” Or at least provide adequate programming so that “Cell A” knows never to merge with “Cell B.”

    If God exists, it appears as if he not interfering with the natural world he created. But if God is still in charge of creating new souls and inserting them into babies, he must remain somewhat involved. How can he command the soul-creation process, yet not dictate that twins should always remain separate?

    It’s difficult to imagine that God is currently up in Heaven bemoaning this situation to Jesus…

    “What’s wrong, God?” asks Jesus. “Oh, nothing, I just had to insert some new souls into a freakish parasitic twin.” “Did you make it appear completely random?” “Yes, of course, we can’t have everyone down there thinking these mistakes are intentional. Still… it makes me so very sad because I love them so much.” “Well… you are an all-powerful God, can’t you just stop?” SMACK! God slaps Jesus to the ground. “See what you made me do!? Stop questioning my judgement! Why must everything I love force me to punish it so badly? My hands are tied, Jesus. My ‘perfect’ creation has listened to the talking snake, leaving me no choice but to conjoin the occasional twin.” “Yes, I suppose,” says Jesus, “But must you also conjoin animals as well?” SMACK! “Yes!” says God, “It’s all part of my plan to save mankind! It’s all necessary.”

    What might we expect if nature forms our bodies?

    If only nature is in control, then…

    1. The cells are calling all the shots, for better or for worse.
    2. We might expect a high failure rate.
    3. We might expect oddities like conjoined twins, because nature was never programmed to forbid them.
    4. When cells do make mistakes, we might expect them to continue forging ahead, because they don’t understand that what they’re making is doomed to fail.
    The naturalist in me sees conjoined twins as nature’s unfortunate experiments. She may fail 75% of the time, but 25% of the time she gets lucky, and actually makes something fit enough to survive.

    This is similar to the evolutionary process, though these mistakes are on a genetic level. When mistakes turn out to be advantageous, the organism survives and replicates. If the mutation is a disadvantage, the organism is wiped from existence. It’s just a matter of probability — create enough random mutations, and eventually you stumble upon something that works.

    What nature really has going in her favor is that she only keeps her winners. As the winners continue to interbreed, they all share in all their new-found strengths.

    Conclusion

    If we say the soul is evidenced by one’s sense of self, then how can two twins share a sense of self? Are they sharing a soul, or are they simply sharing part of an organ that is responsible for forming the sense of self?

    As for how we are formed, I would assume that any benevolent OR malevolent creator would show signs of intent, not randomness and failure. If God intends to insert a soul into a creature he loves, he should take measures to ensure it doesn’t succumb to stupid mistakes, and he certainly shouldn’t continue building something that’s destined to fail.

    But nature has no intentions, she reacts only to physical and chemical reactions, which sometimes results in randomness and failure. She doesn’t create our bodies because she cares for us, and she doesn’t take measures to make sure we won’t succumb to stupid mistakes. She plods along in ignorance, oblivious to her failures. What works, works, and what doesn’t, doesn’t.

    While God may have made us perfect, what we observe today is nature making random mistakes and experimenting. We do not observe God creating new lifeforms from scratch, or showing other clear signs of intent. Conjoined twins appear to be the result of such natural and random mistakes, and not an intentional design choice.


    [​IMG]
     

  2. JoChris

    JoChris Star

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2017
    Messages:
    2,233
    Likes Received:
    3,859
  3. Mr. Blah

    Mr. Blah Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2017
    Messages:
    580
    Likes Received:
    628
    God_Is_Formless likes this.
  4. God_Is_Formless

    God_Is_Formless Star

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2017
    Messages:
    2,083
    Likes Received:
    2,972
    The way i see it, they are only proofs that God Exists and Does What He Wills.

    To me, it still forms part of the test like, do you keep on believing in God despite all those ''flaws''?

    Also, these people have special needs just like handicapped people or animals. Through them, God Appeals wants us to be kind, simply.
     
    India, Haich, llleopard and 1 other person like this.

  5. Mr. Blah

    Mr. Blah Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2017
    Messages:
    580
    Likes Received:
    628
    I don't know.

    But, I congratulate the dead babies in the pictures.
    They would not suffer here and go straight-up to Heaven (according to some Christian pastors/denoms and maybe some imams).
    They are so lucky, if I dare to say.

    Another questions are: why does He like to test people? Why doesn't He let people live happily and depression-free?
     
    God_Is_Formless likes this.
  6. Mr. Blah

    Mr. Blah Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2017
    Messages:
    580
    Likes Received:
    628
    BTW, if I analyze your posts, you seem a pacifist.

    A phlegmatic man.
     
    God_Is_Formless likes this.
  7. Annonymous_Damsel

    Annonymous_Damsel Established

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2017
    Messages:
    270
    Likes Received:
    731
    This is sad...
     
    mecca and God_Is_Formless like this.
  8. Mr. Blah

    Mr. Blah Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2017
    Messages:
    580
    Likes Received:
    628
    And we are so lucky.
     
    mecca and God_Is_Formless like this.
  9. God_Is_Formless

    God_Is_Formless Star

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2017
    Messages:
    2,083
    Likes Received:
    2,972
    If we don't know, then God Knows and it should be enough to trust Him, no matter what happens.

    True, after four months in the womb, the babies are indeed blessed with a soul. For sure they will get to Heaven.

    Every person who dies before attaining puberty is guaranteed Heaven for that matter as well as the mentally handicapped.

    Heaven is a great reward. It's an eternity of pleasure and is not easily obtained. The life of this world and its pleasures are quite worthless.

    People have a choice between believing in The Reason of their existence or pursuing their own vain desires and passions.

    Which one is better? The nobler answer would be to believe in Him as a sign of gratitude first and foremost.

    It's also safer to believe in A Supreme Being since we cannot explain our own beings, the test being to see who's the best in doing good.

    If i deem myself to be so intelligent and so talented and i can't explain why i was born in this family and granted this body and personality, am i really intelligent and talented?

    It would be logical to say that i was Sent here. It would be even more logical to say that i was born without any talent and intelligence.

    And the same applies to every male and female i know. It's common knowledge that everybody takes birth and dies. So Who Willed me here?

    A Supreme Being Responsible for all uniformity that can be witnessed all around me. He Designed my intelligence as well as my capabilities.

    That must mean that since He Devised same for everybody else, He Being The Source of it all must Certainly Surpass each and every thing.

    Since He Is The Most Beautiful Being, Being The Creator of beauty itself, The Greatest of all achievements would be Him Ultimately.

    Since He Is The Creator of all the pleasures that we know about, His Good Pleasure Should Be Sought above all other ephemeral pleasures.

    He Lasts while everything perishes. The sun rises and then disappears. So do we rise when waking up and disappear when going to sleep.

    Each and everything around us can be found and witnessed within us. The sun can be likened to our faces. The moon to our fingernails.

    The list goes on for the careful observer. The mouth can be used to radiate enlightening words or to darken the moods of others.

    Our hands can do shining deeds by helping others since we would like to be helped ourselves or it can be used to harm others.

    It's all a matter of perspective. You either return good to the environment for the good things you're enjoying like life, oxygen, etc or you don't.

    The greatest of all good of course starts with belief in That Supreme Being since you exist because of Him first of all.

    People are the ones responsible for their own happiness. What could bring you more happiness than The Creator of happiness itself?

    When you recognize that everything is His Doing and that you keep on trusting Him, He Keeps you happy.

    But instead of recognizing Him, people run after mere creatures such as money, women, drugs and whatnot. Of course they will be unhappy.

    Because these things cannot benefit you except if God Almighty Wills them to be of benefit to you.

    If He Loves you, He Will Not Let you deify those things, deification being like letting those things occupy the totality of your heart, His House.

    Sorry for the lengthy post but you know what they say that if the oceans were ink and the trees were pen, His Words are simply inexhaustible.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2017
    EMVIGOCIT37 and llleopard like this.
  10. God_Is_Formless

    God_Is_Formless Star

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2017
    Messages:
    2,083
    Likes Received:
    2,972
    Maybe, and by His Will first of all. The reason is simply because we cannot let our emotions dictate our actions. And yes, peace for everybody.

    The Attainment of His Good Pleasure should be the First of all of our aims. I believe the real reason of man's existence is to remind others.

    For example, i like to play games on my computer. But instead of resorting to that first thing after turning it on, i find it more useful to be here.
     
  11. EMVIGOCIT37

    EMVIGOCIT37 Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2017
    Messages:
    99
    Likes Received:
    233
    Wow great article I love the depth that you put up into this
     
    God_Is_Formless likes this.
  12. The Zone

    The Zone Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2017
    Messages:
    864
    Likes Received:
    2,387
    It's called cut and paste. And as always some only see or look for the bleak things in life.
     
    Haich, God_Is_Formless and mecca like this.
  13. AspiringSoul

    AspiringSoul Star

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2017
    Messages:
    1,290
    Likes Received:
    1,585
    God created conjoinred twins so Jesus could die for their sins.
     
  14. JoChris

    JoChris Star

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2017
    Messages:
    2,233
    Likes Received:
    3,859
    How would we know we would think it was boring, if sin and death had never entered the world in the first place?
    If perfection, health and peace was ever-present etc?
     
    God_Is_Formless and mecca like this.
  15. Infinite Truth

    Infinite Truth Rookie

    Joined:
    May 11, 2017
    Messages:
    91
    Likes Received:
    225
    Very sad but great post, people are always saying god is testing us, if that was the case should we not all get an equal and fair shot at passing these "tests". I don't think those poor kids who are born this way get the same chance at life as everyone else, where is god for them?
     
    God_Is_Formless likes this.
  16. God_Is_Formless

    God_Is_Formless Star

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2017
    Messages:
    2,083
    Likes Received:
    2,972
    God Is Still Giving them life, ain't He?

    This life is nothing man. I've seen 32 years go by as if it were the blinking of an eye. One more blink and i will die. Only good deeds avail.
     
  17. God_Is_Formless

    God_Is_Formless Star

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2017
    Messages:
    2,083
    Likes Received:
    2,972
    That's where you're wrong. Sense perception is sense deception. We think that others see, hear, and feel just as we do.

    It's not obligatorily so. Everybody's living in his/her own world. Everybody's experiencing things like God Wills them to, not as per our thoughts.
     
  18. Infinite Truth

    Infinite Truth Rookie

    Joined:
    May 11, 2017
    Messages:
    91
    Likes Received:
    225
    You seem to know a lot about god, if everyone's experiencing things as god wills them to, then why is he willing them to live like this? It's like when you tell a child not to do something bad and they ask why and you just reply "because I said so!", you have to explain to them why it is wrong, you can't just answer everything with because it's gods will, there must be a reason.
     
    God_Is_Formless likes this.
  19. llleopard

    llleopard Established

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2017
    Messages:
    251
    Likes Received:
    713
    I think one of the first questions I would ask is....considering how the world looks - full of all kinds of pain, misery and suffering....why did humans come to the conclusion that there is a wise and loving God?
    Also....I would presume that atheists have no trouble accepting that suffering exists - that it is simply to be expected in a random universe.

    As a Christian, it seems to me that God has made the universe function in particular ways, with laws that don't change. ie gravity, law of sin and death etc. The world was created perfect, but then people chose to use their free will option to go against God. This changed everything forever and introduced imperfection and suffering into the world. Now that path has been taken, God, however, remains true to the original laws. Although He could step in and change a foetus in the womb, He does not, because that would be contradicting Himself. It would not be in God's nature to give people free will, and then over rule their free will. He remains unchanging.
    I remain convinced that even though God has not yet put an end to pain and suffering, He will, and the end will somehow be worth the wait.
     
    Camidria, God_Is_Formless and mecca like this.
  20. Infinite Truth

    Infinite Truth Rookie

    Joined:
    May 11, 2017
    Messages:
    91
    Likes Received:
    225
    Aren't you following gods will as a Christian tho, it's not really free will if you must obey god, if there is such a god I feel he has set us up for failure from the offset. it's like giving someone the tools to build a house but then telling them they have to be homeless. Why give free will if the will of god is all that matters seems pointless.
     
    God_Is_Formless likes this.

Share This Page