Why there are so many Christian sects?

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God’s people believe in unity based on Scripture and following “the Lamb wherever He goes” (Revelation 14:4). They have one doctrine.
Contending for the Faith Amen. Once delivered by the Apostol's and Profits with Christ as the ONLY foundation and Chief Cornerstone that fitly joins the building (temple of God) together,.(of which we are) The Lord describes this by the mixing of the Tares among the wheat, which is what we are witnessing, But God knows those who are His.
 
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In a nutshell, different denominations occur for a couple of reasons:

1. False Prophets......many “denominations” are not Bible-believing Christians at all, but follow men who lead them astray through false doctrines. Ex: Mormons, JW, SDA, Charismatics, Calvinists, etc.

2. False Bible Versions..... Wicked reprobates that have tampered and changed God’s True Word (King James Holy Bible) through omissions, additions, deceit, twisting the Word, and commentaries of man.
 

TokiEl

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Christians think they are so righteous but... so did Jews just before God cut them down.

What we have here is history repeating itself.

As Jews did not live up to God's expectations so don't Christians.


Jesus spent His time with ordinary folks... because the religious only disputed with Him.
 

phipps

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In a nutshell, different denominations occur for a couple of reasons:

1. False Prophets......many “denominations” are not Bible-believing Christians at all, but follow men who lead them astray through false doctrines. Ex: Mormons, JW, SDA, Charismatics, Calvinists, etc.

2. False Bible Versions..... Wicked reprobates that have tampered and changed God’s True Word (King James Holy Bible) through omissions, additions, deceit, twisting the Word, and commentaries of man.
You forgot Catholicism. This is the one where the little horn power Daniel 7 or the first beast resides in the form of the Papacy.

SDA's have the closest doctrine to the Bible than any other Christian religion you've mentioned above.
 
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JoChris

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SDA's have the closest doctrine to the Bible than any other Christian religion you've mentioned above.
There are many problems with its teachings.

Two obvious contradictions:
1 Timothy 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.


1 Corinthians 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.

Was the founder a man or a woman? https://carm.org/seventh-day-adventism

Are Christians commanded to be vegetarians?
Colossians 2:20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
21(Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22 Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men?
23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.


There are many problems but "SDA" alone versus mainstream churches deserves its own thread.
 

phipps

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There are many problems with its teachings.

Two obvious contradictions:
1 Timothy 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.


1 Corinthians 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.

Was the founder a man or a woman? https://carm.org/seventh-day-adventism

Are Christians commanded to be vegetarians?
Colossians 2:20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
21(Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22 Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men?
23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.


There are many problems but "SDA" alone versus mainstream churches deserves its own thread.
I am not an SDA but I find their doctrine closest to the Bible than any other religion. I don't agree with many things about them but those have nothing to do with their doctrine I have to say.

If you're talking about Ellen G White, as far I know she was one of the founders of the Church. She's the most well known because she was a prophetess. She does cause a lot of contention though and many have left the Adventist church because they don't believe she was a prophet of God.

Women can hold positions in Church just not in the same capacity as men. Women are not to be pastors or elders, because doing so would place them in a leadership role over men (1 Timothy 2:11–14; 1 Corinthians 14:34, 35), there are other things that women can and should do. Their ministry revolves around support, service, and ministry to women and children.

Throughout the Bible, women are shown in ministry. Several examples include Deborah, who was a judge of Israel (Judges 4:4); Huldah and Anna, who were prophetesses (2 Chronicles 34:22; Luke 2:36); Priscilla, who was active in evangelism (Acts 18:26); and Pheobe, who was a deaconess (Romans 16:1). So women have an incredibly important role in God’s Church throughout the ages.


No we are not commanded to be vegetarians. I have never read anywhere in SDA literature that we are commanded to be vegetarian. They know God allowed man to eat meat although He told us what meat we should and shouldn't eat. Rather they point out that in scripture we are told our bodies are to be the temple for the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 6:19-20). The Bible says in Romans 12:1, "I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service." If we are to be living sacrifices , holy acceptable to God, we should present ourselves in as good condition as possible, avoiding habits, physical, mental or spiritual, which damage our minds and bodies. God is concerned about everything we do and asks us to do everything to His glory including what we eat and drink (1 Corinthians 10:31).

They talk about the original diet of man, when God added extra foods to our diets and why. When and why meat came into mankind's diet (the flood), and how it affected them. They also talk about clean and unclean animals that should be eaten. Daniel and his three friends showed that in only ten days they were healthier than the others who ate meat and wine. They ate essentially a vegan diet and proved that God's original diet is the right one. Daniel 1:8-16. I have a thread on this exact subject. https://vigilantcitizenforums.com/threads/the-original-diet-of-mankind-and-the-old-testament-dietary-laws-do-they-still-apply.4467/.

The SDA's have many issues and are definitely not a perfect Church nor have I suggested they are but they believe in a thus says the Lord more than most Christian religions out there to the point some have called them legalists.

- They believe that all Christians should obey all the ten commandments including the fourth commandment about keeping the Sabbath. Most Christian religions keep the first day of the week not the Sabbath as God intended. I also have a thread on the subject. https://vigilantcitizenforums.com/threads/who-changed-the-sabbath-day-from-saturday-to-sunday.4393/

- They believe God is particular about obedience, which He is. None of us can obey in our own power, but through Christ we can and must. Obedience is the fruit of a relationship with God. If we love him, we keep His commandments. John 14:15.

- They believe and teach about the the ministry of Christ in the heavenly sanctuary. Many Christian religions don't believe that but is biblical. I started a thread yesterday about that too. Many Christians are Zionists/dispensationalists and believe that an earthly temple is going to be rebuilt contrary to the word of God which clearly states that Jesus went back to heaven and is the High priest in the heavenly sanctuary. The book of Hebrews tells us more about the heavenly sanctuary.

- They believe and teach about spiritual gifts within the body of Christ. Spiritual gifts are given to a Christian by the Holy Spirit after they join the fellowship of believers or upon baptism. Just as when Jesus was baptized: by John, and the Spirit of God descended upon Him in the form of a dove, so anyone who is baptized by water is to also to receive the Spirit, for only with the presence of the Holy Spirit in a person’s life are they able to walk the Christian life. Spiritual gifts received upon baptism may be specialities that are already built on talents previously developed, or they may even be tendencies only discovered after an individual has given their life to Christ and is walking with Him. Christians are to use their spiritual gifts to in loving ministry for the common good of the church and of humanity. In 1 Corinthians 12 Paul explains about the gifts, what they are for ans how they are to be used. He talks about spiritual gifts in other parts of the New Testament too.

- They believe in the Second coming of Christ. Most Christians believe in Jesus' second coming but some have twisted how He will come and when contrary to what the Bible teaches. The Bible teaches that Jesus' second coming of Christ is the blessed hope of the church, the grand climax of the gospel. The Saviour’s coming will be literal, personal, visible, and worldwide. When He returns, the righteous dead will be resurrected, and together with the righteous living will be glorified and taken to heaven, but the unrighteous will die. The almost complete fulfilment of most lines of prophecy, together with the present condition of the world, indicates that Christ’s coming is imminent. The time of that event has not been revealed, and we are therefore exhorted to be ready at all times.

- They believe in the Millennium and the end of sin. The millennium is the thousand-year reign of Christ with His saints in heaven between the first and second resurrections. During this time the wicked dead will be judged; the earth will be utterly desolate, without living human inhabitants, but occupied by Satan and his angels. At its close Christ with His saints and the Holy City will descend from heaven to earth. The unrighteous dead will then be resurrected, and with Satan and his angels will surround the city; but fire from God will consume them and cleanse the earth. The universe will thus be freed of sin and sinners forever.

- They believe in the New Earth, in which righteousness dwells, God will provide an eternal home for the redeemed and a perfect environment for everlasting life, love, joy, and learning in His presence. For here God Himself will dwell with His people, and suffering and death will have passed away. The great controversy will be ended, and sin will be no more. All things, animate and inanimate, will declare that God is love; and He shall reign forever. Amen.

There are many more beliefs that are peculiar to them but they are all biblical. They believe as every Christian should that the Holy Scriptures, Old and New Testaments, are the written Word of God, given by divine inspiration through holy men of God who spoke and wrote as they were moved by the Holy Spirit. In this Word, God has committed to man the knowledge necessary for salvation. The Holy Scriptures are the supreme, authoritative, and the infallible revelation of His will. They are the standard of character, the test of experience, the definitive revealer of doctrines, and the trustworthy record of God’s acts in history.
 
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Its Paul and its Biblical Literalism. If there is any value whatsoever in Christianity it is the logical Gospel of Christ as best articulated by Tolstoy, and developed by other Christian Anarchists, otherwise it is a vacant superstitious fraud that enslaves us.
 
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Christian Apologetics site from ex SDA answers all your above comments. https://www.nonsda.org

Several non-religious reasons to avoid Ellen White's teachings:
She showed many signs of head injury. Some types of temporal lobe epilepsy are linked to hyperreligiousity. https://www.nonegw.org/headinjury.shtml
Her critics claim she plagarised some of her work. http://www.bible.ca/7-WL-exhibits-image-Wylie.htm
SDA apologists admit that, but find excuses for it e.g. https://www.ministrymagazine.org/archive/2007/10/plagiarism-alternate-explanations.html
Right. Thanks for all that. Im not SDA and Ellen G. Woo is why we have bullshit like YEC.

this answers Tolstoy or Christian Anarchism how?
 

JoChris

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Right. Thanks for all that. Im not SDA and Ellen G. Woo is why we have bullshit like YEC.

this answers Tolstoy or Christian Anarchism how?
I will edit the entry. It was meant for Phipps.

The other apostles accepted Paul as one of themselves. Therefore to be logical you should reject Peter as well.

2 Peter 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.


I don't know about those topics. Christian Anarchism - that sounds like an interesting oxymoron. Do you want to start a new thread?
 
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JoChris

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I am not an SDA but I find their doctrine closest to the Bible than any other religion. I don't agree with many things about them but those have nothing to do with their doctrine I have to say.

If you're talking about Ellen G White, as far I know she was one of the founders of the Church. She's the most well known because she was a prophetess. She does cause a lot of contention though and many have left the Adventist church because they don't believe she was a prophet of God.

Women can hold positions in Church just not in the same capacity as men. Women are not to be pastors or elders, because doing so would place them in a leadership role over men (1 Timothy 2:11–14; 1 Corinthians 14:34, 35), there are other things that women can and should do. Their ministry revolves around support, service, and ministry to women and children.

Throughout the Bible, women are shown in ministry. Several examples include Deborah, who was a judge of Israel (Judges 4:4); Huldah and Anna, who were prophetesses (2 Chronicles 34:22; Luke 2:36); Priscilla, who was active in evangelism (Acts 18:26); and Pheobe, who was a deaconess (Romans 16:1). So women have an incredibly important role in God’s Church throughout the ages.


No we are not commanded to be vegetarians. I have never read anywhere in SDA literature that we are commanded to be vegetarian. They know God allowed man to eat meat although He told us what meat we should and shouldn't eat. Rather they point out that in scripture we are told our bodies are to be the temple for the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 6:19-20). The Bible says in Romans 12:1, "I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service." If we are to be living sacrifices , holy acceptable to God, we should present ourselves in as good condition as possible, avoiding habits, physical, mental or spiritual, which damage our minds and bodies. God is concerned about everything we do and asks us to do everything to His glory including what we eat and drink (1 Corinthians 10:31).

They talk about the original diet of man, when God added extra foods to our diets and why. When and why meat came into mankind's diet (the flood), and how it affected them. They also talk about clean and unclean animals that should be eaten. Daniel and his three friends showed that in only ten days they were healthier than the others who ate meat and wine. They ate essentially a vegan diet and proved that God's original diet is the right one. Daniel 1:8-16. I have a thread on this exact subject. https://vigilantcitizenforums.com/threads/the-original-diet-of-mankind-and-the-old-testament-dietary-laws-do-they-still-apply.4467/.

The SDA's have many issues and are definitely not a perfect Church nor have I suggested they are but they believe in a thus says the Lord more than most Christian religions out there to the point some have called them legalists.

- They believe that all Christians should obey all the ten commandments including the fourth commandment about keeping the Sabbath. Most Christian religions keep the first day of the week not the Sabbath as God intended. I also have a thread on the subject. https://vigilantcitizenforums.com/threads/who-changed-the-sabbath-day-from-saturday-to-sunday.4393/

- They believe God is particular about obedience, which He is. None of us can obey in our own power, but through Christ we can and must. Obedience is the fruit of a relationship with God. If we love him, we keep His commandments. John 14:15.

- They believe and teach about the the ministry of Christ in the heavenly sanctuary. Many Christian religions don't believe that but is biblical. I started a thread yesterday about that too. Many Christians are Zionists/dispensationalists and believe that an earthly temple is going to be rebuilt contrary to the word of God which clearly states that Jesus went back to heaven and is the High priest in the heavenly sanctuary. The book of Hebrews tells us more about the heavenly sanctuary.

- They believe and teach about spiritual gifts within the body of Christ. Spiritual gifts are given to a Christian by the Holy Spirit after they join the fellowship of believers or upon baptism. Just as when Jesus was baptized: by John, and the Spirit of God descended upon Him in the form of a dove, so anyone who is baptized by water is to also to receive the Spirit, for only with the presence of the Holy Spirit in a person’s life are they able to walk the Christian life. Spiritual gifts received upon baptism may be specialities that are already built on talents previously developed, or they may even be tendencies only discovered after an individual has given their life to Christ and is walking with Him. Christians are to use their spiritual gifts to in loving ministry for the common good of the church and of humanity. In 1 Corinthians 12 Paul explains about the gifts, what they are for ans how they are to be used. He talks about spiritual gifts in other parts of the New Testament too.

- They believe in the Second coming of Christ. Most Christians believe in Jesus' second coming but some have twisted how He will come and when contrary to what the Bible teaches. The Bible teaches that Jesus' second coming of Christ is the blessed hope of the church, the grand climax of the gospel. The Saviour’s coming will be literal, personal, visible, and worldwide. When He returns, the righteous dead will be resurrected, and together with the righteous living will be glorified and taken to heaven, but the unrighteous will die. The almost complete fulfilment of most lines of prophecy, together with the present condition of the world, indicates that Christ’s coming is imminent. The time of that event has not been revealed, and we are therefore exhorted to be ready at all times.

- They believe in the Millennium and the end of sin. The millennium is the thousand-year reign of Christ with His saints in heaven between the first and second resurrections. During this time the wicked dead will be judged; the earth will be utterly desolate, without living human inhabitants, but occupied by Satan and his angels. At its close Christ with His saints and the Holy City will descend from heaven to earth. The unrighteous dead will then be resurrected, and with Satan and his angels will surround the city; but fire from God will consume them and cleanse the earth. The universe will thus be freed of sin and sinners forever.

- They believe in the New Earth, in which righteousness dwells, God will provide an eternal home for the redeemed and a perfect environment for everlasting life, love, joy, and learning in His presence. For here God Himself will dwell with His people, and suffering and death will have passed away. The great controversy will be ended, and sin will be no more. All things, animate and inanimate, will declare that God is love; and He shall reign forever. Amen.

There are many more beliefs that are peculiar to them but they are all biblical. They believe as every Christian should that the Holy Scriptures, Old and New Testaments, are the written Word of God, given by divine inspiration through holy men of God who spoke and wrote as they were moved by the Holy Spirit. In this Word, God has committed to man the knowledge necessary for salvation. The Holy Scriptures are the supreme, authoritative, and the infallible revelation of His will. They are the standard of character, the test of experience, the definitive revealer of doctrines, and the trustworthy record of God’s acts in history.
Christian Apologetics site from ex SDA answers all your above comments. https://www.nonsda.org

Several non-religious reasons to avoid Ellen White's teachings:
She showed many signs of head injury. Some types of temporal lobe epilepsy are linked to hyperreligiousity. https://www.nonegw.org/headinjury.shtml
Her critics claim she plagarised some of her work. http://www.bible.ca/7-WL-exhibits-image-Wylie.htm
SDA apologists admit that, but find excuses for it e.g. https://www.ministrymagazine.org/archive/2007/10/plagiarism-alternate-explanations.html
 

DavidSon

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Sorry, I've only seen this response today.

We have to be careful as Christians not to compromise on the word of God. There is one truth in the Bible. The Bible tells us that when we search for the truth with our whole heart, "And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.” John 8:32. The promise is, that when we seek for God with all of our heart we will find Him. And once we find Him, His truth will set us free. The Bible also tells us Jesus said, “I am the truth.” When we follow the truth we are obeying Jesus Christ.

Nowadays many people place a high premium on unity and crossing racial and denominational barriers, and so often this is at the expense of sound doctrine. “Ecumenism” is the aim of promoting unity among the Christian churches of the world. While some organizations, like the World Council of Churches, have made positive contributions in the world and promoted clearer dialogue among different faith groups, there are various aspects of these movements that are not in harmony with Scripture and God’s purposes for His church at the end of time. Doctrinal differences are minimized, and a push for one giant church is encouraged. Such a view is held in contrast to Scripture. The Bible not only describes God’s end-time church as being a remnant, but it also describes true believers as those “keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ” (Revelation 12:17). Even Christ’s prayer for unity is set in the context of the disciples who “have kept Your word” (John 17:6).

The basis for true unity is not simply conformity, but a call to faithfulness to the Bible. Many in the ecumenical movement do not see Scripture as authoritative; experience is held above sound theology. Prophecy is almost completely absent as is any focus on the second coming of Christ. There is a push to see evangelism strictly in terms of saving people from social ills, but not pointing out sin or judgment. The movement also pushes strong involvement in political issues.

The Bible rejects pluralism of belief and practice. It rejects the notion that conflicting or contradictory theological views are legitimate and must be allowed to cohabit in the Church. In contrast to today’s counterfeit unity, the Bible teaches that members of God’s Church should uphold a unity of faith and practice.

God’s people believe in unity based on Scripture and following “the Lamb wherever He goes” (Revelation 14:4). They have one doctrine.
Some things you say we see eye to eye on. Like your focus on the importance of gathering with fellow believers, that is a great reminder. Yet Christians don't have to scour the Holy Bible for a passage referring to a subject to know if it's right or not. The laws are supposed to eventually be written in our heart. There's more to life than one book. The word doesn't HAVE to be taken this literal. In your belief about the church you forget there are also those few seekers, like hermits, that choose not to be in an assembly. They aren't believers of God? Thinking there's only one truth (or interpretation) is blindness.

The important point about Jonah isn't that he was in a fish for 3 days. His calling was to speak the truth in Nineveh but he he tried to run away. The mariners knew he was hiding something and threw him overboard for their own safety (because of Jonah's bad vibes). People sense when we're not right with Him. That means your relationship with YOUR Creator, YOUR conscience. After he condemns the city, Jonah has the nerve to be frustrated that the people did repent! It's not relevant to imagine a literal tree that Jonah mourns for when God replies:

"You have had pity on the plant for which you have not labored, nor made it grow, which came up in a night and perished in a night"
"And should I not pity Nineveh, that great city, in which are more than one hundred and twenty thousand persons who cannot discern between their right hand and their left- and much livestock?"

God's judgment is greater than man's. Also the Almighty is considering the beasts who live there too.

Jesus spoke in parable and allusion to the masses, and only to his followers did he reveal the meaning-

11 And He said to them, "To you it has been given to know the mystery of the Kingdom of God; but to those who are outside, all things come in parables,
12 "So that 'Seeing they may see and not perceive, and hearing they may hear and not understand; lest they should turn, and their sins be forgiven them.'" MARK- 4:11-12

Interesting he quotes Isaiah, and the attitude is similar to Jonah's. Did God really wish for the multitude to be saved? Here's one more from that chapter-

34 But without a parable He did not speak to them. And when they were alone, He explained all things to His disciples.

Wouldn't it be a logical assumption that his followers would keep this tradition of mystery? Isn't it possible that for the initiated...immaculate conception, resurrection, etc. are simply allegory and parables to express the highest state of being? I hear such concern for the resurrection, but a lot of the language was simply Jesus's spin on a religious concept that everyone of the day(ignorantly) obsessed over. Having witnessed their teacher risen from the damn grave I'd think the epistles (other than Paul) might have more say about such an unbelievable miracle, but there's not much there.

The Bible (and other legitimate texts like the Apocrypha and Enoch) is a vast source of songs, tales, speeches, visions- encompassing thousands of years. IMO you gain much more insight by taking the intelligence in than cherry-picking quotes to debate interpretation. That's what the scribes do. Christ's teaching is simple enough a child can understand. People of faith are coming from diverse perspectives- we'd be a lot better off finding what work we can accomplish together than splitting hairs over doctrine.

1 "Wisdom has built her house, she has hewn out her seven pillars;
2 She has slaughtered her meat, she has mixed her wine, she has also furnished her table.
3 She has sent out from the highest places of the city.
4 "Whoever is simple, let him turn in here! As for him who lacks understanding, she says to him,
5 "Come, eat of my bread and drink of the wine I have mixed.
6 Forsake foolishness and live, and go in the way of understanding" -Proverbs 9
 

phipps

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I will edit the entry. It was meant for Phipps.

The other apostles accepted Paul as one of themselves. Therefore to be logical you should reject Peter as well.

2 Peter 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.


I don't know about those topics. Christian Anarchism - that sounds like an interesting oxymoron. Do you want to start a new thread?
I have read what a few ex SDA's said about different things they weren't happy about in the church. Like I said I don't think they are perfect but their doctrine is the one closest to the Bible. When we find certain truths about God we have to change our lives accordingly because that is the Holy Spirit opening up God to us. I feel I know and love God more because I found out how deeply He loves us from the SDA's and the ex members of the Church won't and never will change that for me. I don't believe in religion, I believe in the word of God and SDA's have led me to understand that more.

Peter was talking about Paul and how his writings could be difficult to understand but some would twist them to their own destruction as they do other scriptures in the Bible. I haven't done that and never will. I know that If I don't understand something in the Bible, I should pray and ask God to give me understanding of His Word.

I don't reject any of the apostles at all. I believe they were all chosen by God and the rest I said about the Word of God. So no, its not logical at all to reject Peter, its the opposite actually. I have learnt from the SDA's how to study the Bible https://amazingdiscoveries.org/S-deception_study_Scripture_Bible_Word, and why https://amazingdiscoveries.org/S-deception-Bible_Scriptures_Jesus_read.

No I don't want to start a thread about it. I think what I do is more than enough.

God bless.
 
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phipps

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Some things you say we see eye to eye on. Like your focus on the importance of gathering with fellow believers, that is a great reminder. Yet Christians don't have to scour the Holy Bible for a passage referring to a subject to know if it's right or not. The laws are supposed to eventually be written in our heart. There's more to life than one book. The word doesn't HAVE to be taken this literal. In your belief about the church you forget there are also those few seekers, like hermits, that choose not to be in an assembly. They aren't believers of God? Thinking there's only one truth (or interpretation) is blindness.
Some people can't congregate with people of the same faith for legitimate reasons and God understands that. No one is more understanding than God. Those who can congregate should just like Jesus and the apostles did. The laws written in our hearts does not mean we stop studying the Word of God. We will never exhaust the Wisdom in the Bible but as we study it we get to know and love our Lord more.

I disagree, the Bible is life. "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not" (John 1:1-5).

My belief is not in a Church, its in the Word of God. I take it as literally as Jesus did. Jesus often quoted Scripture as the ultimate authority for the truth He was teaching. When tempted by the devil, Jesus responded, “It is written,” and then quoted Scripture (Matthew 4:4, 7, 10).

The important point about Jonah isn't that he was in a fish for 3 days. His calling was to speak the truth in Nineveh but he he tried to run away. The mariners knew he was hiding something and threw him overboard for their own safety (because of Jonah's bad vibes). People sense when we're not right with Him. That means your relationship with YOUR Creator, YOUR conscience. After he condemns the city, Jonah has the nerve to be frustrated that the people did repent! It's not relevant to imagine a literal tree that Jonah mourns for when God replies:

"You have had pity on the plant for which you have not labored, nor made it grow, which came up in a night and perished in a night"
"And should I not pity Nineveh, that great city, in which are more than one hundred and twenty thousand persons who cannot discern between their right hand and their left- and much livestock?"

God's judgment is greater than man's. Also the Almighty is considering the beasts who live there too.

Jesus spoke in parable and allusion to the masses, and only to his followers did he reveal the meaning-

11 And He said to them, "To you it has been given to know the mystery of the Kingdom of God; but to those who are outside, all things come in parables,
12 "So that 'Seeing they may see and not perceive, and hearing they may hear and not understand; lest they should turn, and their sins be forgiven them.'" MARK- 4:11-12

Interesting he quotes Isaiah, and the attitude is similar to Jonah's. Did God really wish for the multitude to be saved? Here's one more from that chapter-

34 But without a parable He did not speak to them. And when they were alone, He explained all things to His disciples.

Wouldn't it be a logical assumption that his followers would keep this tradition of mystery? Isn't it possible that for the initiated...immaculate conception, resurrection, etc. are simply allegory and parables to express the highest state of being? I hear such concern for the resurrection, but a lot of the language was simply Jesus's spin on a religious concept that everyone of the day(ignorantly) obsessed over. Having witnessed their teacher risen from the damn grave I'd think the epistles (other than Paul) might have more say about such an unbelievable miracle, but there's not much there.

The Bible (and other legitimate texts like the Apocrypha and Enoch) is a vast source of songs, tales, speeches, visions- encompassing thousands of years. IMO you gain much more insight by taking the intelligence in than cherry-picking quotes to debate interpretation. That's what the scribes do. Christ's teaching is simple enough a child can understand. People of faith are coming from diverse perspectives- we'd be a lot better off finding what work we can accomplish together than splitting hairs over doctrine.

1 "Wisdom has built her house, she has hewn out her seven pillars;
2 She has slaughtered her meat, she has mixed her wine, she has also furnished her table.
3 She has sent out from the highest places of the city.
4 "Whoever is simple, let him turn in here! As for him who lacks understanding, she says to him,
5 "Come, eat of my bread and drink of the wine I have mixed.
6 Forsake foolishness and live, and go in the way of understanding" -Proverbs 9
The Bible says:
“All scripture is given by inspiration of God” (2 Timothy 3:16).

“Prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost” (2 Peter 1:21).

“Thy word is truth” (John 17:17).

The Bible claims to be entirely inspired by God and absolutely true, written by men guided by the Holy Ghost and I believe that is the truth.

The Bible also says:
"I am the Lord: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.
Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them" (Isaiah 42:8-9).

Many precise Bible predictions of future events confirm the inspiration of Scripture as they come to pass. There are hundreds of examples of fulfilled Bible prophecies.

I am going to post below what I believe about Obedience to the word of God because I am no good at explaining myself. I'm also a really bad writer. I will do it in a question and answer format. It will be long so I will post it in two halves.
 
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phipps

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Is Obedience Legalism?

People often feel it is okay to violate a minor traffic law or two or perhaps to cheat “a little bit” on their taxes, but God and His laws work much differently. God sees everything we do, hears everything we say, and He really does care about how we treat His law. While the Lord offers forgiveness for our sins, it doesn’t mean there aren’t consequences for breaking God’s law. Amazingly, some Christians say that any attempt to obey God’s law amounts to legalism. Yet Jesus said if you really love God, you’ll do what He asks. So, is obedience really legalism? Take time to read this Study Guide carefully. Eternal consequences are at stake!


Does God really see and take note of you personally?
“You-Are-the-God-Who-Sees” (Genesis 16:13).

“O LORD, You have searched me and known me. You know my sitting down and my rising up; you understand my thought afar off. You... are acquainted with all my ways. For there is not a word on my tongue, but behold, O LORD, You know it altogether” (Psalm 139:1–4).

“The very hairs of your head are all numbered” (Luke 12:7).

Yes. God knows you and every person on earth better than we know ourselves. He takes a personal interest in every human being and sees all that we do. Not one word, thought, or deed is hidden from Him.


Can anyone be saved in His kingdom without obeying His Word?
“Not everyone who says to Me,‘Lord,Lord,’shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven”
(Matthew 7:21).

“If you want to enter into life, keep the commandments” (Matthew 19:17).

“He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him” (Hebrews 5:9).

No. Scripture is very clear on this. Salvation and the kingdom of heaven are for those who obey the Lord’s commands. God does not promise eternal life to those who merely make a profession of faith or are church members or are baptized, but rather to those who do His will, which is revealed in Scripture. Of course, this obedience is possible only through Christ (Acts 4:12).


Why does God require obedience? Why is it necessary?
“Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it”
(Matthew 7:14).

“He who sins against me wrongs his own soul; all those who hate me love death” (Proverbs 8:36).

“The LORD commanded us to observe all these statutes, to fear the LORD our God, for our good always, that He might preserve us alive” (Deuteronomy 6:24).

Because only one path leads to God’s kingdom. All roads do not lead to the same place. The Bible is the map—a guidebook with all the instructions, warnings, and information on how to safely reach that kingdom. To disregard any of it leads us away from God and His kingdom. The universe of God is one of law and order—including natural, moral, and spiritual. Breaking any of these laws has fixed consequences. If the Bible had not been given, people would have sooner or later discovered, by trial and error, that the great principles of the Bible exist and are true. When ignored, they result in sickness, torment, and unhappiness of every kind. Thus, the words of the Bible are not merely advice that we can accept or ignore without consequences. The Bible even tells what these consequences are and explains how to avoid them. A person cannot live any way he wishes and still become Christlike—any more than a builder can ignore the blueprints for a house without running into trouble. This is why God wants you to follow the blueprint of Holy Scripture. There is no other way to become like Him and, thus, be fitted for a place in His kingdom. There is simply no other way to true happiness.


Why does God permit disobedience to continue? Why not destroy sin and sinners now?
“Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him” (Jude 1:14-15).

“As I live, says the LORD, every knee shall bow to Me, and every tongue shall confess to God” (Romans 14:11).

God will not destroy sin until everyone has been fully convinced of His justice, love, and mercy. All will finally realize that God, by asking for obedience, is not trying to force His will upon us, but rather is trying to keep us from hurting and destroying ourselves.The problem of sin is not settled until even the most cynical, hardened sinners are convinced of God’s love and confess that He is just. It will take, perhaps, a major catastrophe to convince some, but the horrible results of sinful living will finally convince all that God is just and right.


Will the disobedient actually be destroyed?
“God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment” (2 Peter 2:4).

“All the wicked He will destroy” (Psalm 145:20).

“In flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ” (2 Thessalonians 1:8).

Yes. The disobedient, including the devil and his angels, will all be destroyed. This being true, surely it is time to abandon all fuzziness regarding what is right or wrong. It is not safe for us to depend on our own notions and feelings of right and wrong. Our only safety is depending on God’s Word.


You want to please God, but is it really possible to keep all of His commandments?
“Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find” (Matthew 7:7).

“Be diligent [study] to present yourself approved to God ... rightly dividing the word of truth” (2Timothy2:15).

“If any one wills to do His will, he shall know concerning the doctrine, whether it is from God”(John 7:17).

“Walk while you have the light, lest darkness overtake you”(John 12:35).“As soon as they hear of me they obey me” (Psalm 18:44).

God promises to keep you from error and lead you safely to all truth if you will (1) pray earnestly for guidance, (2) sincerely study God’s Word, and (3) follow truth as soon as you are shown.


But God isn’t particular about obedience on every detail, is He?
"Surely none of the men who came up from Egypt ... shall see the land ... because they have not wholly followed Me, except Caleb ... and Joshua ... for they have wholly followed the LORD” (Numbers32:11-12).

“Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God” (Matthew 4:4).

“You are My friends if you do whatever I command you” (John 15:14).

Indeed—He is particular. God’s people in Old Testament times learned this the hard way. Those who left Egypt for the Promised Land were a multitude in number. Of this group, only two, Caleb and Joshua, fully followed the Lord, and they alone entered Canaan. The others died in the wilderness. Jesus said we are to live by“every word” of the Bible. There is not one commandment too many or one commandment too few. They are all important!


When a person discovers new truth, shouldn’t he or she wait until all obstacles are removed before embracing it?
“Walk while you have the light, lest darkness overtake you” (John 12:35).

“I made haste, and did not delay to keep Your commandments” (Psalm 119:60).

“Seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you” (Matthew 6:33).

No. Once you are clear on a Bible truth, it is never good to wait. Procrastination is a dangerous trap. It seems so harmless to wait, but the Bible teaches that unless a person acts immediately upon light, it quickly turns to darkness. Obstacles to obedience are not removed while we stand and wait; instead, they usually increase in size. Man says to God, “Open up the way, and I’ll go forward." But God’s way is just the opposite. He says,“You go forward, and I will open up the way.”


But isn’t complete obedience an impossibility for a human being?
“With God all things are possible”
(Matthew 19:26).

“I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me” (Philippians 4:13).

“Thanks be to God who always leads us in triumph in Christ” (2 Corinthians 2:14).

“He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing” (John 15:5).

“If you are willing and obedient, you shall eat the good of the land” (Isaiah 1:19).

None of us can obey in our own power, but through Christ we can and must. Satan, in order to make God’s requests appear unreasonable, invented the falsehood that obedience is impossible.


What will happen to a person who wilfully continues in disobedience?
“If we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries” (Hebrews 10:26-27).

“Walk while you have the light, lest darkness overtake you; he who walks in darkness does not know where he is going” (John 12:35).

The Bible leaves no room for doubt. The answer is sobering, but true. When a person knowingly rejects light and continues in disobedience, the light eventually goes out, and he is left in total darkness. A person who rejects truth receives a “strong delusion” to believe that falsehood is truth (2 Thessalonians 2:11). When this happens, he is lost.


Isn’t love more important than obedience?
“Jesus answered ... ‘If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word ... He who does not love Me does not keep My words’ ”(John 14:23-24).

“This is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome” (1 John 5:3).

Not at all! The Bible actually teaches that true love to God doesn’t really exist without obedience. Nor can a person be truly obedient without a love and appreciation for God. True love and obedience are like conjoined twins.When separated, they die.


But doesn’t true freedom in Christ actually release us from obedience?
“If you abide in My word ... you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. ... Who ever commits sin is a slave of sin” (John 8:31,32,34).

“God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness” (Romans 6:17-18).

“So shall I keep Your law continually, forever and ever. And I will walk at liberty, for I seek Your precepts” (Psalm 119:44-45).

No.True freedom means freedom “from sin” (Romans 6:18), or disobedience, which is breaking God’s law (1 John 3:4). Therefore, true freedom comes only from obedience. The citizens who obey the law have freedom. The disobedient are caught and lose their freedom. Freedom without obedience is a false freedom—it leads to confusion and anarchy. True Christian freedom means freedom from disobedience. Disobedience always hurts a person and leads one into the cruel slavery of the devil.


Who is really behind all disobedience, and why?
“He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. ... In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest:Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God” (1 John 3:8, 10).

“Satan ... deceives the whole world” (Revelation 12:9).

The devil is responsible. He knows that all disobedience is sin and that sin brings unhappiness, tragedy, alienation from God, and eventual destruction. In his hatred, he tries to lead every person into disobedience.You are involved.You must face the facts and make a decision. Disobey and be lost, or accept Christ and obey and be saved. Your decision regarding obedience is a decision regarding Christ.You cannot separate Him from truth, because He says, “I am ... the truth”(John 14:6).
“Choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve”(Joshua 24:15)


What glorious miracle does the Bible promise for God’s children?
“He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ” (Philippians 1:6).

Praise God! He promises that just as He worked a miracle to bring us the new birth, He will also continue to work needed miracles in our lives (as we gladly follow Him) until we are safe in His kingdom.
 

phipps

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Thought Questions


1. Will any be lost who think they are saved?
Yes! Matthew 7:21–23 makes it clear that many who prophesy, cast out devils, and do other wonderful works in Christ’s name will be lost. Christ said they are lost because they did not do “the will of My Father in heaven”(verse 21). Those who refuse to obey God will end up believing a lie (2 Thessalonians 2:11-12) and, thus, think they are saved when instead they are lost.

2. What will happen to sincere people who truly think they are right when they are wrong?
Jesus said that He will call them to His true way, and His true sheep will hear and follow (John 10:16, 27).

3. Aren’t sincerity and zeal enough?
No! We must also be right. The apostle Paul was sincere and zealous when he persecuted Christians before his conversion, but he was also wrong (Acts 22:3-4; 26:9–11).

4. What will happen to people who haven’t received light?
The Bible says that all have received some light. “That was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world” (John 1:9). Each person will be judged according to how he or she follows available light. Even unbelievers have some light and follow the law, according to Romans 2:14-15.

5. Is it safe for a person to first ask God for a sign to confirm He wants obedience?
It is not. Jesus said, “An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign” (Matthew 12:39). People who won’t accept the plain teachings of the Bible would not be convinced by a sign either. As Jesus said, “If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead” (Luke 16:31).

6. Hebrews 10:26- 27 seems to indicate that if a person wilfully commits just one sin after he knows better, he is lost. Is this correct?
No. Anyone can confess such a sin and be forgiven. The Bible is speaking here not of one single act of sin—but of a presumptuous continuation in sin and a refusal to surrender to Christ after one knows better. Such action grieves away the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 4:30) and hardens a person’s heart until one is “past feeling” (Ephesians 4:19) and lost.The Bible says, “Keep back Your servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me.Then I shall be blameless, and I shall be innocent of great transgression” (Psalm 19:13).

https://www.amazingfacts.org/media-library/study-guide/e/4991/t/is-obedience-legalism-
 
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I will edit the entry. It was meant for Phipps.

The other apostles accepted Paul as one of themselves. Therefore to be logical you should reject Peter as well.

2 Peter 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.


I don't know about those topics. Christian Anarchism - that sounds like an interesting oxymoron. Do you want to start a new thread?
The situation with Peter has been covered multiple times here and a careful reading of it is more of a warning then an endorsement and James is a clear rebuke of Paul.

Anyway here’s this

https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/marlow-anarchism-and-christianity


And the answer to the question of why so many sects is that no two people can agree on the “divinely inspired living word of God”
 

TokiEl

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I disagree, the Bible is life. "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not" (John 1:1-5).
The Word of God is Jesus Christ !

John 5 39 "You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. 40 But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life."
 
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No.True freedom means freedom “from sin” (Romans 6:18), or disobedience, which is breaking God’s law (1 John 3:4). Therefore, true freedom comes only from obedience. The citizens who obey the law have freedom. The disobedient are caught and lose their freedom. Freedom without obedience is a false freedom—it leads to confusion and anarchy. True Christian freedom means freedom from disobedience. Disobedience always hurts a person and leads one into the cruel slavery of the devil.
What laws are you speaking of?
 
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I liked this quote. I don't think the masses who choose to be identified as Christian are flawed- it's that we have different visions, simple as that. It's a marvel that in the US churches stand not just on the same block, but across the street from each other. One could be the House of Emmanuel, next is Church of the Living God, etc. They have a unique focus of attention, or styles of worship as you say, and I'm cool with it. At least faith and spirituality are being kept alive in a generation of such rampant materialism.

I'm a little surprised within the threads at VC that a few of the "Christians" seem to have this energy of desperate shouting while communicating their personal faith. You can't force others to share your experience. I feel Jesus was challenging his followers to search within and illuminate themselves. Fast and pray. Focus on spirituality, stillness. Become your own religion. There has to be the experience of the divine or else the shouting becomes redundant dogma, which tunes others out. Jesus was the exact opposite. People came by the thousands to crowd in and hear his discussions. Because he was brilliant, wise, and enlightened. (I'd also add with a great sense of humor). In the reasoning, especially with the apostles, Christ is sparkling with wisdom and clarity. I think that's why some of the teachings can appear contradictory or confusing, because different situations display different truths. A rich man might benefit by giving away his wealth, but the poor guy need to get out there and find a job!

Let's not be like the scribes and pharisees who the Almighty curses. Judging others on the basis of their faith and quibbling over doctrine can cross the line of respect. It's unproductive. There are some amazing individuals who post here and IMO there could be more thanks for the intelligent dialogue each other brings, no matter what tribe they're from.


38. Now John answered Him, saying, "Teacher, we saw someone who does not follow us casting out demons in Your name, and we forbade him because he does not follow us."
39. But Jesus said, " Do not forbid him, for no one who works a miracle in My name can soon afterward speak evil of Me.
40. For he who is not against us is on our side." -MARK 9



"Signs and symbols rule the world, not words nor laws" - Confucius
Comments like this are EXACTLY what is wrong with Christianity today.

Churches have become relaxed on sin and as a result, you have fun-center, prosperity/feel good motivational speakers parading around on a stage calling himself a “pastor” wearing bejeweled designer jeans & spiky, hip hairstyles.

These clowns are not godly men, but entertainers working a crowd. They have the audacity to get up on their stage—no Bible in sight, but they certainly have their Starbucks latte in hand that they purchased in the front lobby—and talk about how Jesus is such a relaxed, happy-go-lucky fella who is soft on sin.

NO SCRIPTURE is preached in establishments, which look more like a TedTalk than a church, and the audience isn’t looking for truth but want their itching ears to be filled with praise of men instead of God. Meanwhile, the children are on the other side of the building, in a “youth group “ with no surveillance because the high schooler in charge of them has snuck out back to smoke a joint with his girlfriend, so nobody notices that little preschooler Johnny has gone to the bathroom unattended & some filthy sodomite has followed him in to r*pe him because the hipster “preacher” doesn’t have the bollocks to preach against homos and throw out the sodomites because it isn’t “loving”. And there isn’t a single person in the entire building who can recite Genesis 1:1 or all 10 Commandments without looking it up online.

99% of Christian churches today resemble an SNL skit more than a house of God and it disgusts me.

Christians are becoming WEAK, passive, accepting of sin and want a Christianity that doesn’t offend them, that doesn’t make them uncomfortable, and doesn’t convict them of their own wickedness or challenge them to be more godly.

They want a social club religion that costs them nothing! No sacrifice, no crucifying the flesh, just look the other way when people are committing adultery or fornication, instead of throwing them out like the Bible commands.

It is a disgrace and shame on these self-ordained pastors who preach for filthy lucre and love their digits in their bank account more than the lost souls! They feed their ego instead of their flock and GOD WILL JUDGE THEM.

749814BB-C9D6-47DC-B75F-5262AFD8BBAE.jpeg
 
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