Why there are so many Christian sects?

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#61
Because the Bible contradicts itself in various places so you get different interpretations.
I would agree with that statement completely. The reason it contradicts itself is because there are multiple authors. So just like one picks whether to accept the Quran or the Bible or any other religious text, one can choose to accept certain books of the bible and reject others. After all God himself never spoke and told us which books of the Bible are truly his word. The RCC told us what books to accept as the Bible, even though they themselves don't even believe in Sola Scripture.

The closest testimony we have from God is when he endorsed Jesus and said "this is my son, listen to him". So when it comes to the NT, the words of Jesus himself are the only truly reliable words that can be considerd the Word of God. The words of the dsiciples who walked in the flesh with him come second as Jesus said the Holy Spirit would remind them of his words.

The words of the self proclaimed apostle who never knew Jesus in the flesh, are the least likely to be the actual words of God. I think that is quite appropriate as the name Paul literallly means "least". Paul himself stated he was the least of the Apostles , even though most Christians, if they are honest with themselves, consider him the greatest Apostle. Pretty ironic!
 





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#62
That was a well thought out and informative response! It brought all kinds of clarity to the issue. Thanks! Now back to reality... Can you please answer my question? Do you think the word of God comes by the wisdom of man? Yes or No?
What is written in the Bible are the inspired and preserved words of God !

2 Peter 3 15"Consider also that our Lord’s patience brings salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom God gave him. 16He writes this way in all his letters speaking in them about such matters. Some parts of his letters are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort as they do the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction."
 





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#64
What is written in the Bible are the inspired and preserved words of God !

2 Peter 3 15"Consider also that our Lord’s patience brings salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom God gave him. 16He writes this way in all his letters speaking in them about such matters. Some parts of his letters are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort as they do the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction."
So when Paul prefaced that what he was writing was his own thoughts and not from God was that still the words of God?

You still haven’t answered my question. Do you believe the word of God comes by the wisdom of man?
 





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#65
Are you familiar with the concept of "antinomy"? An aparent contradiction (e.g. free will and election) in which holding ideas in tension helps you understand a truth not explicable in other ways?
No I was not aware of that word/concept. Only problem is that this "truth" will vary from person to person. And since the Bible is a collection of books written by different authors, there is a high probability of contradicting views. Especially when those books were put together by men and not by God.
 





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#66
So when Paul prefaced that what he was writing was his own thoughts and not from God was that still the words of God?
Peter approves of Paul.

Sometimes Paul wrote not the verbatim words of Jesus to the churches but offered his own opinions on this and that... and that's fine as he knows what he is talking about having been translated into Paradise and all.


You still haven’t answered my question. Do you believe the word of God comes by the wisdom of man?
It is God's responsibility to inspire compile and preserve His written words for us. And that He did in the Bible !
 





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#67
I would agree with that statement completely. The reason it contradicts itself is because there are multiple authors. So just like one picks whether to accept the Quran or the Bible or any other religious text, one can choose to accept certain books of the bible and reject others. After all God himself never spoke and told us which books of the Bible are truly his word. The RCC told us what books to accept as the Bible, even though they themselves don't even believe in Sola Scripture.
Todd you are in no way shape and form capable to cut and paste the Bible as God wants it.
 





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#68
No I was not aware of that word/concept. Only problem is that this "truth" will vary from person to person. And since the Bible is a collection of books written by different authors, there is a high probability of contradicting views. Especially when those books were put together by men and not by God.
You may perhaps be familiar with the concept of a "checksum". It came as a surprise to me how number is woven through the scriptures you doubt in such a way as to suggest the hand of an author whispering in the ear of the physical writer.

https://vigilantcitizenforums.com/threads/biblical-gematria-kabala.4792/
 





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#69
Todd you are in no way shape and form capable to cut and paste the Bible as God wants it.
God gave us methods to test and discern if something was true. Surely he expected us to test anything that was claimed to be His word and would expect it to pass.

You are putting a lot of trust and faith in the councils of man to tell you what is the Word of God. That is your prerogative. I myself used to believe the same way, but I have found that method lacking.

Since rejecting Paul and embracing the Torah and the words of Jesus, I have experienced great blessing in my life. I’m not going back to the frustrating double mindedness of Pauline doctrine.
 





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#70
I agree which is why I will stand by faith on what he has said and not what Paul has said. Hence, the reason I questioned if Paul will be there to defend you since you seem more invested in what he actually said then what Jesus said.


Really? Interesting notion that someone who believes and lives according to the words of the Messiah and has faith in the work on the cross as the source of empowerment to actually follow the guidance and instruction of God is hanging by a thread. Allah is simply the arabic word for God. So yes God is my God and I follow him. His actual name is Yahweh in case you didn't know.


This I agree with. In my own power and ability I am not capable of loving my neighbor as myself. Only by trusting in Christ and being lead by the Holy Spirit am I able to perform the works Yahweh intended for me to do. Please read Christ's definition of the leading of the Holy Spirit as given in John 14:26. The leading of the Holy Spirit is reminding us of what Jesus actually spoke and taught. Why is it that Paul never bothered to learn from the disciples what Jesus actually taught? Why did Paul rarely quote Jesus if he was truly lead by the Spirit of God?

If you plan on getting there without works your faith is dead!
Do please explain Matthew 25:31-46. Faith without works is dead. Everytime Jesus was asked about salvation his answer was following the guidance and instruction of God. I acknowledge that in my own ability I am not capable, but by trusting in the work of the Messiah, I am freed from the power of sin and empowered to follow God's guidance and instruction.
Hi Todd, You think I'm being crass. But Christ is the only way, and until you see (or we) see how ungodly man is...you will never see a need for Christ.
 





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#71
Hi Todd, You think I'm being crass. But Christ is the only way, and until you see (or we) see how ungodly man is...you will never see a need for Christ.
Do you actually read all of my posts or just throw knee jerk reactions out because you despise my rejection of Paul? If Christ is the only way, why are you so offended that I question Paul and choose to rely on the words of Christ? I agree with you that Christ is the only way. I have never once denied my need for Christ. My walk, my faith and my righteousness is completely and utterly dependent on Christ.
 





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#72
Do you actually read all of my posts or just throw knee jerk reactions out because you despise my rejection of Paul? If Christ is the only way, why are you so offended that I question Paul and choose to rely on the words of Christ? I agree with you that Christ is the only way. I have never once denied my need for Christ. My walk, my faith and my righteousness is completely and utterly dependent on Christ.
I don't despise you at all, You are just totally wrong, If you had the Spirit of holiness at all, It would show through your post. Why would I believe you just because you wrote a post describing your doctrines that exclude the teachings of Christ...for the gospel is built upon the Apostles and prophets with Christ as the foundation. While I do read your post, why wouldn't I be offended at your theology when it is not Scriptural. When or if you ever become humbled before the Lord, then you will receive wisdom...for Christ is our wisdom. Just because I defend or contend for the faith, makes me no better than you...but it is my faith in Christ alone that gives me my standing in the righteousness of Christ before the Father
 





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#73
Sometimes you hear questions on this forum around the question of whether Paul should even be included in the NT. Repeating the same claim enough might lead some people to believe that there is something in the critique. Others might suspect that these doubts are really rooted in the desire not to believe the message he preached. I found this analysis helpful.

 





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#74
I don't despise you at all, You are just totally wrong, If you had the Spirit of holiness at all, It would show through your post. Why would I believe you just because you wrote a post describing your doctrines that exclude the teachings of Christ...for the gospel is built upon the Apostles and prophets with Christ as the foundation. While I do read your post, why wouldn't I be offended at your theology when it is not Scriptural. When or if you ever become humbled before the Lord, then you will receive wisdom...for Christ is our wisdom. Just because I defend or contend for the faith, makes me no better than you...but it is my faith in Christ alone that gives me my standing in the righteousness of Christ before the Father
How do my posts exclude the teachings of Christ? My beliefs are based entirely on the teachings and words of Christ and Christ alone.

How about some decent exegesis to refute my claims and interpretation rather than accusations and judgement of my faith and standing before God?

Please do explain how a spirit of holiness shows through posts on an Internet forum. Christ said we would be known by our fruit and love for others, not our doctrine. How can you judge the fruit of my doctrine and beliefs through an Internet forum.

I have never questioned or judged your salvation, relationship with God or the fruit of your beliefs and doctrines. I used to believe very similar to you and my trust and love for God was just as strong as it is today. So just because I disagree with some of your doctrine and some of your beliefs does not mean I question your sincerity, faith or trust in God.
 





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#76
Not Spiritually....Only carnally.
LOL! Okay....
For 25 years I’ve witnessed the results and fruit of the mystical (what your are calling spiritual) doctrine of Christ as taught by Paul. I am know beginning to experience the fruit of the gospel as taught by Jesus and his disciples (the gospel you are claiming is carnal) and it is proving to be a much greater blessing and expresssion of God’s great love, mercy and grace. Psalm 38:4

I pray you get to experience the same thing someday.
 





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#77
Why there are so many Christian sects?

ANSWER: Because of the same reason why there are and always will be the occasion incidents of church splits; It is always about doctrines and/or money!

And this goes all the way back to The Great Schism of 1054 AD/CE. This incident is responsible for the two factions we know today as the Orthodox Church [AKA Orthodoxy] & the Roman Catholic Church [AKA Catholicism].

And do not overlook how Protestantism came about in the 12th century as a type of protest against the doctrines of Catholicism.
 





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#78
No offense but this whole discussion kind of highlights the problems I was talking about. I was born Lutheran and even though my family wasn't religious, I learnt religion and it's history in school. I have also always been interested in religions. But still all this makes me confused. The basic message: "believe in Jesus as your personal savior and you are saved" is simple but it doesn't seem to be enough. And people don't agree what then is enough. What are the rules you are supposed to follow. How can you claim that you know the truth if it's difficult to find even two people who agree about something?

Etagloc has an advantage in this discussion because he is the only one here who is trying to convince people about the truth of Quran. At least his message seems coherent. Of course there are different views within Islam but they are somehow less discussed than the differences of Christianity.
I always think you *are* etagloc when I see your name...