Why there are so many Christian sects?

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#41
What are you seeking in even asking these questions here? There's plenty of Christian forums that could address all these question.

VC isn't the place to get your biblical or doctrinal knowledge from and you don't know who might be aiming to lead you astray. We've had people like you come on here and ask these questions, confuse themselves, and because the Muslims aren't arguing over doctrine or highlighting biblical 'discrepancies' people will revert to Islam.

If you don't know your bible this isn't the place and that is what a good church or at the least a Christian oriented forum is for. You won't find a clear answer here and what you're asking demonstrates you don't know your bible well and people like to take advantage of that ignorance on this forum.
So how do I find a good church? That's the question. Every church will say that they are a good church and if I go there to learn about the Bible, they will use it to justify their beliefs. Out hundreds of different denominations which is the closest to the truth? If I know nothing and go to a bad church, I will get into a wrong direction.
 





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#42
You on the other hand will have to “take up” your disregard for the Torah and all your beliefs based on Paul’s writing with Lord. I hope that goes well for you. Do you think Paul will be there, ready to advocate for you?
No, It will be the Lord who will receive us. Your lifeline to the kingdom of God is hanging by a thread...If Allah is your God...then follow him. As for me, I'am unfit to be in the presence of the Lord...but by faith, He (Christ) is my righteousness before the throne of the Father. There is only ONE intercessor between man and God (The Lord Jesus Christ). If you plan on getting there by your works, Scriptures says they are as filthy rags.
 





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#43
So how do I find a good church? That's the question. Every church will say that they are a good church and if I go there to learn about the Bible, they will use it to justify their beliefs. Out hundreds of different denominations which is the closest to the truth? If I know nothing and go to a bad church, I will get into a wrong direction.
I found a, people may cringe but idc, bible believing KJV non denominational church. I went to their bible study first and it was the first time I had ever seen a room full of adults open their bibles, find verses and chapters in seconds, and actually discuss everything. The church has a website I used because they offered a break down of every book and on Sundays would break down each book chapter by chapter which I had never seen.

To some extent I had to take some of their personal opinions with a grain of salt it was where I learned about God and the bible and ultimately received context. Its a vague answer but this isn't the place. I have the website the church and I can PM it to you but I would consider messaging @Daciple as he would probably be my choice to privately learn from.
 





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#44
I found a, people may cringe but idc, bible believing KJV non denominational church. I went to their bible study first and it was the first time I had ever seen a room full of adults open their bibles, find verses and chapters in seconds, and actually discuss everything. The church has a website I used because they offered a break down of every book and on Sundays would break down each book chapter by chapter which I had never seen.

To some extent I had to take some of their personal opinions with a grain of salt it was where I learned about God and the bible and ultimately received context. Its a vague answer but this isn't the place. I have the website the church and I can PM it to you but I would consider messaging @Daciple as he would probably be my choice to privately learn from.
Oi, what about me?! Only joking - I like @Daciple too ;-)
 





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#45
This isn't the place at all. This sub forum can be confusing for people. I've watched posters go from religion to religion to sometimes nothing because this wasn't a positive environment. When I wanted to learn about Islam, I went to a mosque, when I wanted to learn the bible and God, I went to a church. This sub forum is toxic with one thread praising God another claiming Zeitgeist to be true and so on. Why would I want to subject anyone to spiritual confusion that is possibly genuinely seeking help? I don't and that is why I said what I said.
Here are all sorts and also trolls but the danger in a church is that they are all deceived. And so if one wants to know about a particular topic a public forum like this is the best place where claims are challenged and proofs are provided free of charge and not restricted by private party propaganda and censorship.

This is the place for cutting edge Bible and Reality understanding for here also i am and so where would you go to know ?

Whether or not one recognizes the truths in my speech is something i cannot control... but i am authorized by Jesus Christ himself to tell truths as it is to the best of my ability which i admit is somewhat raw but it comes from an honest heart.
 





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#46
Might I politely suggest that doctrine is rather like interior design. Where there is something fixed (like a pillar in a room) you need to design around it.

I understand in your view that "Universal Reconciliation" is one of those fixed elements. This will lead you to structure your acceptance of Biblical positions through that understanding. I can't help but think that the NT without Paul would be rather like a ham and cheese sandwich without the ham, but that's just me ;-)
The only fixed pillar for me is the crucifixion, death, burial and ressurection of Christ. Everything else is designed around that.
 





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#47
No, It will be the Lord who will receive us.
I agree which is why I will stand by faith on what he has said and not what Paul has said. Hence, the reason I questioned if Paul will be there to defend you since you seem more invested in what he actually said then what Jesus said.

Your lifeline to the kingdom of God is hanging by a thread...If Allah is your God...then follow him.
Really? Interesting notion that someone who believes and lives according to the words of the Messiah and has faith in the work on the cross as the source of empowerment to actually follow the guidance and instruction of God is hanging by a thread. Allah is simply the arabic word for God. So yes God is my God and I follow him. His actual name is Yahweh in case you didn't know.

As for me, I'am unfit to be in the presence of the Lord...but by faith, He (Christ) is my righteousness before the throne of the Father. There is only ONE intercessor between man and God (The Lord Jesus Christ).
This I agree with. In my own power and ability I am not capable of loving my neighbor as myself. Only by trusting in Christ and being lead by the Holy Spirit am I able to perform the works Yahweh intended for me to do. Please read Christ's definition of the leading of the Holy Spirit as given in John 14:26. The leading of the Holy Spirit is reminding us of what Jesus actually spoke and taught. Why is it that Paul never bothered to learn from the disciples what Jesus actually taught? Why did Paul rarely quote Jesus if he was truly lead by the Spirit of God?
If you plan on getting there by your works, Scriptures says they are as filthy rags.
If you plan on getting there without works your faith is dead!
Do please explain Matthew 25:31-46. Faith without works is dead. Everytime Jesus was asked about salvation his answer was following the guidance and instruction of God. I acknowledge that in my own ability I am not capable, but by trusting in the work of the Messiah, I am freed from the power of sin and empowered to follow God's guidance and instruction.
 





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#48
Oi, what about me?! Only joking - I like @Daciple too ;-)
Well I've learned things from Dac privately and he has been helpful so I have that experience to confidently mention him. I haven't come to you on that level before not because you weren't adequate but because I knew where to go as I had been there before. I think @Karlysymon and @Todd are great choices but @Daciple has been consistent and at times even salient.
 





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#49
Jesus never picked Paul. Jesus warned against false teachers that claim Christ appears in the desert.
When Jesus gave that warning it was as an answer to a question about signs at the end of the age where in the great tribulation some would deceive people by saying Jesus is here or there in the wilderness or in the inner rooms. Or here is secret revelation from the lord or come and see him...


Paul claimed that Peter was called to preach to the Jews and that he was called to preach a different Gospel to the Gentiles.
Peter acknowledged Paul... so you must also reject Peter as well if you want to stay Scriptural consistent.


2 Peter 3 15"Consider also that our Lord’s patience brings salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom God gave him. 16He writes this way in all his letters speaking in them about such matters. Some parts of his letters are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort as they do the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction."
 





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#50
Here are all sorts and also trolls but the danger in a church is that they are all deceived. And so if one wants to know about a particular topic a public forum like this is the best place where claims are challenged and proofs are provided free of charge and not restricted by private party propaganda and censorship.

This is the place for cutting edge Bible and Reality understanding for here also i am and so where would you go to know ?

Whether or not one recognizes the truths in my speech is something i cannot control... but i am authorized by Jesus Christ himself to tell truths as it is to the best of my ability which i admit is somewhat raw but it comes from an honest heart.
I would go to the same church I mentioned earlier. I can always find fellowship there despite some things I disagree with but I am spiritually mature enough to sift through the chaos and know who is on the money and who has ulterior motives.

It's amazing that I can message @DesertRose anytime and debate, or challenge @Red Sky at Morning but I don't believe this to be the place for the spiritually immature. One can get sucked into pointless debate or worse see people like you or Lisa and get discouraged by your tone and presentation. Not to say it isn't coming from a good place but this isn't a safe place for those beginning their walk with Christ. This is what church is for to be around people that can help heal, process, and edify each other. That doesn't happen here and it isn't the place for it. Even finding friends or small groups to learn with is substantially better than here. We talk about paganism, Satanism, the occult, etc. and I don't think a new believer should be yoked with unbelievers while trying to figure it all out.

And to some degree, who is to say you or I am not deceived. We don't know these posters in real life, we don't know if anyone here has our best interest in mind. You can learn things here, sure, but this isn't the hub for Christian wisdom and multiplying of the faith. It is a bunch of strangers discussing, debating, insulting, harassing, and slandering each other.
 





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#51
When Jesus gave that warning it was as an answer to a question about signs at the end of the age where in the great tribulation some would deceive people by saying Jesus is here or there in the wilderness or in the inner rooms. Or here is secret revelation from the lord or come and see him...
So Jesus' test for for false teachers is only good during the great tribulation? Please, a priniciple is a principle. Paul claimed secret revelation form the lord. He fits the test as a false teacher. Much of what Jesus spoke about in Matthew 24 the disciples experienced in the first century. I do not agree with you that Matthew 24 is only applicable for the end of the age.
Peter acknowledged Paul... so you must also reject Peter as well if you want to stay Scriptural consistent.
Yes Peter acknowldege Paul as a brother. Peter did not acknowledge Paul as an Apostle. Peter did not endorse Paul's writing as the word of God. In fact Peter specifically states that Paul wrote with the wisdom given to him. Do you think the word of God comes by the wisdon of man?

2 Peter 3 15"Consider also that our Lord’s patience brings salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom God gave him. 16He writes this way in all his letters speaking in them about such matters. Some parts of his letters are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort as they do the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction."
[/quote]
I've explained multiple times that 2 Peter 3:15 is hardly an endorsement of Paul's writings being the word of God. This is Peter warning that Paul's writings would lead to the destruction of many. You can search past posts of mine to read the full explanation if you want a full response. I do not have to reject Peter to reject Paul's writing as the word of God.
 





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#52
Well I've learned things from Dac privately and he has been helpful so I have that experience to confidently mention him. I haven't come to you on that level before not because you weren't adequate but because I knew where to go as I had been there before. I think @Karlysymon and @Todd are great choices but @Daciple has been consistent and at times even salient.
I was only joking!

1 Corinthians 3 says it best!

Paul and Apollos God's Fellow Workers

1And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. 2I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. 3For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? 4For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?

5Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? 6I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. 7So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase. 8Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour. 9For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building

Additionally, 1 John 2, written to born again people who read the scriptures....

26These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. 27But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
 





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#53
So Jesus' test for for false teachers is only good during the great tribulation? Please, a priniciple is a principle. Paul claimed secret revelation form the lord. He fits the test as a false teacher. Much of what Jesus spoke about in Matthew 24 the disciples experienced in the first century. I do not agree with you that Matthew 24 is only applicable for the end of the age.
His warning was an answer about signs at the end of the age and so if you don't agree with that you don't agree with Scripture which you don't. And we both know that.


Yes Peter acknowldege Paul as a brother. Peter did not acknowledge Paul as an Apostle. Peter did not endorse Paul's writing as the word of God.
Here Peter endorses Paul's writings as the words of God and also warns that his writings are not all easily understandable and will be twisted by some to their own destruction.

2 Peter 3 15"Consider also that our Lord’s patience brings salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom God gave him. 16He writes this way in all his letters speaking in them about such matters. Some parts of his letters are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort as they do the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction."


The twisters of Paul's writings are those who think that they don't have to keep the commandments of God.
 





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#54
I would go to the same church I mentioned earlier. I can always find fellowship there despite some things I disagree with but I am spiritually mature enough to sift through the chaos and know who is on the money and who has ulterior motives.
Churches are not to be trusted because of 501(c)(3) so most churches are under regulatory compliance to the government. Need i say more?

It's amazing that I can message @DesertRose anytime and debate, or challenge @Red Sky at Morning but I don't believe this to be the place for the spiritually immature. One can get sucked into pointless debate or worse see people like you or Lisa and get discouraged by your tone and presentation. Not to say it isn't coming from a good place but this isn't a safe place for those beginning their walk with Christ.
Yes this forum is not politically correct and people can speak their minds without being banned... so not much safe spaces here and trigger warnings which might cause the occasional meltdown to members of this last generation.
 





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#55
Why are there so many different Christian denominations? There are several reasons. For starters, let’s remember that denominations are made up of churches and churches are made of people; and sometimes people just don’t get along. After all, just because people are Christians doesn’t mean they always agree.

Moreover, Christians still struggle with pride, selfishness, and stubbornness, and this means they sometimes respond to relational conflict poorly. This has often led to debates and divisions within churches and denominations, which in turn leads to the creation of new churches and denominations.

It’s an unfortunate situation, but a reality given human nature. Maybe this is why Jesus focused so much on unconditional love and forgiveness as an expression of the kind of people he wants us to be.

Another reason Christians are divided is legitimate disagreements about biblical interpretations. What does baptism mean and who should get baptized? How should local churches be structured? Who should fill leadership roles? How often should communion be practised? How should certain passages in the Bible be interpreted? These are good questions and the answers aren’t always clear in the Bible. Perhaps this is the reason the Bible exhorts us to exercise wisdom and humility when it comes to secondary issues (not essential to salvation) where genuine differences exist (Romans 14-15).

The rise of Christian denominations within the Christian faith in 16th century can be traced back to the Protestant Reformation, the movement to “reform” the Roman Catholic Church, out of which four major divisions or traditions of Protestantism would emerge: Lutheran, Reformed, Anabaptist, and Anglican. From these four, other denominations grew over the centuries.

The Lutheran denomination was named after Martin Luther and was based on his teachings. The Methodists got their name because their founder, John Wesley, was famous for coming up with “methods” for spiritual growth. Presbyterians are named for their view on church leadership—the Greek word for elder is presbyteros. Baptists got their name because they have always emphasized the importance of baptism.

Each denomination has a slightly different doctrine or emphasis from the others, such as the method of baptism; the availability of the Lord’s Supper to all or just to those whose testimonies can be verified by church leaders; the sovereignty of God vs. free will in the matter of salvation; the future of Israel and the church; pre-tribulation vs. post-tribulation rapture; the existence of the “sign” gifts in the modern era, and so on.

The point of these divisions is never Christ as Lord and Saviour, but rather honest differences of opinion by godly, albeit flawed, people seeking to honour God and retain doctrinal purity according to their consciences and their understanding of His Word. Denominations today are many and varied. The original “mainline” denominations mentioned above have spawned numerous offshoots such as Assemblies of God, Christian and Missionary Alliance, Nazarenes, Evangelical Free, independent Bible churches, and others.

Some denominations emphasize slight doctrinal differences, but more often they simply offer different styles of worship to fit the differing tastes and preferences of Christians.

http://www.wbfmfamily.com/why-there-are-so-many-christian-denominations-part-1/
 





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#56
His warning was an answer about signs at the end of the age and so if you don't agree with that you don't agree with Scripture which you don't. And we both know that.



Here Peter endorses Paul's writings as the words of God and also warns that his writings are not all easily understandable and will be twisted by some to their own destruction.

2 Peter 3 15"Consider also that our Lord’s patience brings salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom God gave him. 16He writes this way in all his letters speaking in them about such matters. Some parts of his letters are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort as they do the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction."


The twisters of Paul's writings are those who think that they don't have to keep the commandments of God.
I clearly explained how this is not an endorsement of Paul's writings as the Word of God. Do you really think the word of God comes by the wisdon of man?

Interesting that you state that the twisters of Paul's writing think they don't have to keep the commandemts of God, when my rejection of Paul led me to embrace the Torah instead of ignore it and to follow more closely the commandments and teachings of the Messiah. Seems that by rejecting Paul, I have done just the opposite of your theory. LOL!
 





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#57
I clearly explained how this is not an endorsement of Paul's writings as the Word of God. Do you really think the word of God comes by the wisdon of man?
You clearly can't read and understand a simple Bible passage.


Interesting that you state that the twisters of Paul's writing think they don't have to keep the commandemts of God, when my rejection of Paul led me to embrace the Torah instead of ignore it and to follow more closely the commandments and teachings of the Messiah. Seems that by rejecting Paul, I have done just the opposite of your theory. LOL!
The twisters of Paul think that they don't have to keep the commandments of God.

What about the rejecters of Paul ? Well to stay scripturally consistent they have to reject those who approve of Paul like Peter and those who approve of Peter like Jesus and those who approve of Jesus like the Father.

When Peter in the Bible approves of Paul then you ought to approve of him as well... else you are just cherry picking inconsistently what you want.

And that's what you do.
 





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#59
You clearly can't read and understand a simple Bible passage.
That was a well thought out and informative response! It brought all kinds of clarity to the issue. Thanks! Now back to reality... Can you please answer my question? Do you think the word of God comes by the wisdom of man? Yes or No?