Why there are so many Christian sects?

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#1
If the Holy Spirit helps people to understand the Bible, then how come there are so many different ways to believe? And if it is enough to believe in Jesus Christ as your personal saviour, then why so many people think that Catholics don't go to heaven? They believe in Jesus.
 





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#2
Most Christians won't like my answer, but it is because of the writings attributed to Paul. If you were to base Christianity solely on the words of Jesus and the writings of the Apostles in Jerusalem, Chrstianity would look very much different. Paul is confusing because he contradicts himself so many times and even admits that was his strategy. "I become all things to all men".

Most of the sects and denominations arise out of differences on topics that are mostly written about in the books attributed to Paul.

Presestination versus Free will
Once saved always saved
observance of the Torah versus freedom from the law
God's law is a curse versus God's law brings life
Gifts of the Spirit.
Chruch hieracrchy versus organic leadership
Women in church leadership
partnership and submission to wordly rulers
Dispensationalism versus one covenant/gospel for all

All these controversial issues would not exist if Paul's writings were not included in the Bible.

Peter even warned that Paul's writings would lead to destruction for many....
 





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#3
If the Holy Spirit helps people to understand the Bible, then how come there are so many different ways to believe? And if it is enough to believe in Jesus Christ as your personal saviour, then why so many people think that Catholics don't go to heaven? They believe in Jesus.
There are many different denominations because many don't allow themselves to be guided by God and this goes all the way to genesis. Many denominations contain truth but there are lies as well and these lies, these beliefs are propagated by the followers of these men and taken as gospel. Illiteracy has always been a problem so when few can read, few take power, few left to their own devices create these different beliefs and systems via personal interpretation. An example would be during slavery, Christianity was forced upon slaves but not the Christianity that I or many others recognize or adheres to. By way of omission, deception, and manipulation slaves and others were convinced that these slaves were less than and meant to be slaves. If a slave had learned to read and been able to even grasp and explain exodus well that would have been a problem for the masters. Exodus would have empowered these people to want to be free and equal to their new age pharoahs.

From a doctrinal stand point and the way Catholics interpreted the bible and Jesus, one could make the case that they are hell bound, why that matters to others is odd and of little importance. Judging others and condemning to hell, fallible imperfect men, is not for man to do because he will fail. I can't say if Catholics are going to hell, I don't know every individual person's exact beliefs, life style, influences, and all the other factors that shape people. It's asinine and in my opinion comes from a place of arrogance and elitism rather than from love for fellow man, God and his word.
 





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#4
If the Holy Spirit helps people to understand the Bible, then how come there are so many different ways to believe? And if it is enough to believe in Jesus Christ as your personal saviour, then why so many people think that Catholics don't go to heaven? They believe in Jesus.
The word belief implies compliance with what one believes.

And so it does not matter if one believes in Jesus but does not comply with His will and words.

The Scriptures are crystal clear about the condemnation of those who know about and still reject Jesus Christ. And He said himself that those who don't believe that He is the I AM will die in their own sins.
 





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#5
The word belief implies compliance with what one believes.

And so it does not matter if one believes in Jesus but does not comply with His will and words.

The Scriptures are crystal clear about the condemnation of those who know about and still reject Jesus Christ. And He said himself that those who don't believe that He is the I AM will die in their own sins.
So is it enough only to believe in Christ or not? I am confused about Jesus' will and words. What are some concrete things people who comply with His will and words do? And believers aren't immune to sin so if you sin, you don't really believe?

If the God truly wants everybody to be saved, shouldn't he make this clearer?
 





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#6
So is it enough only to believe in Christ or not? I am confused about Jesus' will and words. What are some concrete things people who comply with His will and words do? And believers aren't immune to sin so if you sin, you don't really believe?

If the God truly wants everybody to be saved, shouldn't he make this clearer?
Jesus said he came to fullfill the law not abolish it. He then went on to say that the law can be summarized by "Love God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength, and love your neighbor as yourself" He didn't say the Torah was replaced by his saying, he was just saying that was the spirit behind the Torah.

The next question usually is who is my neighbor? Well the parable of the good samaritan was the answer. The jews and the Samaritans were bitter rivals and had different ideas about God and religion. But the parable commended the Samaritan that loved his "rival". Jesus also spoke about even sinners loved those who loved them, and it was no credit to them, but one who could love their enemy would be a child of God. (Luke 6:27-36).

Bottom line is that all the doctrine, theology, and dogma in the world is useless if it doesn't produce love, mercy and grace in those who profess those doctrines, theologies and dogma. In Matthew 7:15-20 Jesus said the way to recognize true believers from false believers is by their fruit.

Is the dis-unity of denominations good fruit or bad fruit?
Every doctrine and theology can be judged by the fruit it produces in those who embrace that particular doctrine or theology.
 





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#7
So is it enough only to believe in Christ or not?
Yes if one also complies with His words.

I am confused about Jesus' will and words. What are some concrete things people who comply with His will and words do?
Don't ask around and let other people paint a picture of Jesus but go directly to the source also known as the Gospels and get to know Him for yourself.

And believers aren't immune to sin so if you sin, you don't really believe?
Believers are much more immune to sins than unbelievers simply because the Holy spirit in the believers does not tolerate sins.

If the God truly wants everybody to be saved, shouldn't he make this clearer?
When one looks into it it is obvious that Jesus Christ is God and so with a little interest and effort all ought to come to that conclusion.
 





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#8
So is it enough only to believe in Christ or not? I am confused about Jesus' will and words. What are some concrete things people who comply with His will and words do? And believers aren't immune to sin so if you sin, you don't really believe?

If the God truly wants everybody to be saved, shouldn't he make this clearer?
Hi Elegiar, It is clear, But not to the carnal mind. Paul give his (and all born again believers) battle with the Old nature and the new man (Holy Spirit) and trying to obey the Law. Study Rom. 7:1-25 and Gal. 5:17) Then study the Victory of the new man over the old nature in Rom. 8:1-39 and Gal. 5:16; 18-26). We are saved...but not finished yet until the redemption of our bodies. (2 Cor. 5:1-10)
 





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#9
If the Holy Spirit helps people to understand the Bible, then how come there are so many different ways to believe? And if it is enough to believe in Jesus Christ as your personal saviour, then why so many people think that Catholics don't go to heaven? They believe in Jesus.
Christianity shouldn't be divided at all. Jesus prayed to his Father that we may all be one. The main reason is Satan wants division. He wants division because he wants as many people as possible to lose their lives eternally with him. He knows what his future holds and wants us all to die with him forever. He knows that hurts God very much especially after He gave everything by sending His Son to die on the cross for our sins. The devil's strategy in attacking God’s people over the course of history has been to use division. Not only does the devil do this in the Church, but he does it in the community, in the world with the nations, and with cultures and races and families. Jesus is the great “uniter” in truth. Christ wants unity in the home and in the church but we have to voluntarily let Him work within us and transform us. The Holy spirit helps people to understand the Bible if they open their hearts to Christ, believe in Him as their personal Saviour and live according to His law.

I don't know if you know the history of Christianity but its a long subject. There have always been true and faithful Christians who live according to the Word of God and they've always been persecuted because Satan hates them. When the Catholic Church started, it was about power, control and making money. They suppressed religious liberty and persecuted anyone who opposed them. There were always true Christians who opposed them and they paid a very high price with their lives. When the Protestant reformation started it opposed the Catholic Church because they preached a different message to that of the Bible. Martin Luther nailed his 95 theses, a list of propositions aimed at problems in the Roman Catholic Church, to the door of the university church in Wittenberg, Germany. The Protestant Reformation based its separation from Rome on the Word of God, and made the Gospel of Jesus Christ available to everyone seeking the truth. This free availability of the Scriptures severely challenged the doctrines and supremacy of Rome, and restored the truths that had been lost through centuries of suppression of religious liberty.

The reformation succeeded in some ways especially by opening people's eyes to the differences in what the Catholic Church preached and the Bible. People found out that grace is free, its not earned. However within Protestantism divisions began to form. Some Protestant leaders still worshipped in Catholic Churches and attended mass. While they disagreed with some aspects of Catholicism they believed reform had to take place within the Church. They believed the Catholic Church was still the true Church. Other Protestants walked out completely and started worshipping separately from Catholics. Then there were the doctrinal differences that caused contention and eventually division. That is how many denominations were created. If you can, research Christian history.
 





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#10
If the Holy Spirit helps people to understand the Bible, then how come there are so many different ways to believe? And if it is enoughl
to believe in Jesus Christ as your personal saviour, then why so many people think that Catholics don't go to heaven? They believe in Jesus.
God is ONE.... God is not three, seven, a thousand, etc.

God has no partners, no associates, no equals.... God is One

God created Jesus (PBUH)

Jesus (PBUH) was a Prophet.... I even have a video I can show you insha'Allah where a pastor accidentally has a slip of the tongue and accidentally admits Jesus (PBUH) was a Prophet.... in fact, Christians often slip and accidentally admit Jesus (PBUH) was a Prophet....

Jesus (PBUH) is not God but a Prophet.... the Bible was altered and tampered with.... Jesus (PBUH) says God is greater than I in the Bible

Worship God alone, don't worship a human

Look man, take like $9 dollars and buy Misquoting Jesus (PBUH)

https://www.amazon.com/Misquoting-Jesus-Story-Behind-Changed/dp/0060859512

People will spin all sorts of nonsense pretending to debunk Ehrman. You might be fooled by this if you don't actually read the book. Therefore, read the book and examine the evidence with your own eyes.

You know Martin Luther married a nun?

All this "faith alone" salvation stuff that Protestants repeat like a broken record- they got it from Martin Luther. They might not tell you they got it from Martin Luther, they might deny this but they got it from Martin Luther.

You know Martin Luther removed books from the Bible?

The Catholic Bible has more books and the Catholic Church put the Bible together in the first place. Why should you trust the Bible as altered by Martin Luther? Do people even talk about that?

Look man, you go into Christianity, you go into a maze.... a tangled web of verbiage, of strange doctrines, of logical gymnastics, of contradictions, of cognitive dissonance, of unconscionable support for Israeli oppression of Palestinians and for wanting to bomb us Muslims (I want to debunk the false claims of Christianity but I don't wish harm on anyone simply for being Christian, regardless of how the media would have people think)...... it's a world where.... things just don't add up... and if you realize that things don't add up.... "you were never a TRUE Christian"...... that is the circular reasoning... I tell you things don't add up

I give you an example:

Matthew 5:17-19 King James Version (KJV)

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

So Jesus (PBUH) says that according to the Bible

then Paul apparently somehow gets rid of the law according to the Christians....

do you think Jesus (PBUH) ate pork? I can't imagine him eating pork and I don't believe he ate pork. Jesus (PBUH) didn't eat pork. Jews don't eat pork. Muslims don't pork. Yet Christians eat pork!

The media tries to brainwash you against Islam and posters here will try to brainwash yoh against Islam

because Islam is the true religion...... all the Prophets (PBUT) were opposed.... all of them had enemies.... so it is and was with Prophet Muhammad (PBUH), the Seal of the Prophets (PBUT), the Last and Final Messenger

Muhammad (PBUH) in fact is mentioned in the Bible

anyways, people here will try to do all sorts of weird logical gymnastics and mazes of words.... and I don't think I'll be responding..... so read here... I already wrote a giant post reaponding to the Christians.... click the link below.... do the research for yourself and insha'Allah you will see for yourself what is the truth..... don't build a house on sand.... or a house like the house of the spider....

https://vigilantcitizenforums.com/threads/response-to-a-christian.4992/
 





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#11
Jesus (PBUH) was a Prophet.... I even have a video I can show you insha'Allah where a pastor accidentally has a slip of the tongue and accidentally admits Jesus (PBUH) was a Prophet.... in fact, Christians often slip and accidentally admit Jesus (PBUH) was a Prophet....
Jesus was the "Messiah", God with us. He was a Prophet, Priest and King according to the flesh as son of David (Son of man) and God according to The Spirit. This is all in Scripture...but you do not believe the Bible.
 





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#12
So is it enough only to believe in Christ or not? I am confused about Jesus' will and words. What are some concrete things people who comply with His will and words do? And believers aren't immune to sin so if you sin, you don't really believe?

If the God truly wants everybody to be saved, shouldn't he make this clearer?

So is it enough only to believe in Christ or not?
No, its not enough to believe. The Bible tells us in James 2:19 "...Even the demons believe—and tremble!" Believing is important but also doing His will. Jesus says there will be two groups of people in the end times. One group He calls few, the other He calls many. He said, "Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’" Matthew 7:22-23. Those people (the majority of Christ's professed followers) believe in Christ but do not follow the law. They know His name. Their religious activities seem to have the marks of genuine ministry, but Jesus, with a broken heart, will declare to them, “I don’t know you.” Why? Because they live a compromised life full of sin. Jesus said, “If you love Me, keep My commandments” (John 14:15).

I am confused about Jesus' will and words. What are some concrete things people who comply with His will and words do?
“He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.” 1John 2:4. To know Christ is to love Him, and to love Him is to obey Him. “And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent” John 17:3. Knowing and loving and obeying are all tied closely together and are absolutely inseparable in the life of God’s faithful people. The beloved John summed it up in these words: “For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous” 1 John 5:3.

We can't do it on our own of course. Loving, knowing Christ, having faith and obeying Him all come from Christ. If we pray earnestly for them, He will answer our prayers.

And believers aren't immune to sin so if you sin, you don't really believe?
Sinning doesn't mean we don't believe. When we become Christians and get baptised, the Holy Spirit works within us to come into complete harmony with God's Word. Its called sanctification. As we get closer to God and love Him more and obey His commandments, accept His gift of Salvation we sin less and less. “Without me,” Jesus said, “ye can do nothing” (John 15:5).

If the God truly wants everybody to be saved, shouldn't he make this clearer?
He does. Its not hidden but it requires studying the word of God everyday.
 





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#13
Most Christians won't like my answer, but it is because of the writings attributed to Paul. If you were to base Christianity solely on the words of Jesus and the writings of the Apostles in Jerusalem, Chrstianity would look very much different. Paul is confusing because he contradicts himself so many times and even admits that was his strategy. "I become all things to all men".

Most of the sects and denominations arise out of differences on topics that are mostly written about in the books attributed to Paul.

Presestination versus Free will
Once saved always saved
observance of the Torah versus freedom from the law
God's law is a curse versus God's law brings life
Gifts of the Spirit.
Chruch hieracrchy versus organic leadership
Women in church leadership
partnership and submission to wordly rulers
Dispensationalism versus one covenant/gospel for all

All these controversial issues would not exist if Paul's writings were not included in the Bible.

Peter even warned that Paul's writings would lead to destruction for many....

Why are you so desperate to lie about and blame Paul for a lot of things that are wrong in Christendom? He is not responsible. The truth is that there are as many or more reasons for different Christian denominations as there are denominations.

As for what Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians 9:22, when posted on its own like that without context he is very easy to misunderstand. I will post from verse 16-23.

"For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a servant to all, that I might win the more; and to the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might win Jews; to those who are under the law, as under the law, that I might win those who are under the law; to those who are without law, as without law (not being without law toward God, but under law toward Christ), that I might win those who are without law; to the weak I became as weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. Now this I do for the gospel’s sake, that I may be partaker of it with you." (1 Corinthians 916-27).

You are so determined to misunderstand Paul aren't you? Paul talks about his missionary work and how he tailored his approach to be the most effective for whatever group of people he was trying to reach. The way Paul preached to the Jews is certainly different to the way he preached to the Gentiles. Some of the Gentiles had never heard of God or read the Bible.

Do you remember I reminded you that Paul was chosen by Jesus to be His apostle. When you criticise Paul and his writings because you don't understand them and make out that he preached a gospel that is different to Christ's (which he didn't), you're implying Jesus picked the wrong person to be His apostle. God doesn't make mistakes.
 





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#14
Jesus was the "Messiah", God with us. He was a Prophet, Priest and King according to the flesh as son of David (Son of man) and God according to The Spirit. This is all in Scripture...but you do not believe the Bible.
Jesus (PBUH) was a Prophet. He was indeed the Messiah. However, Jesus (PBUH) is not God.

This is all in Scripture... but you do not believe the Quran.
 





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#16
Why are you so desperate to lie about and blame Paul for a lot of things that are wrong in Christendom? He is not responsible. The truth is that there are as many or more reasons for different Christian denominations as there are denominations.
Do you remember I reminded you that Paul was chosen by Jesus to be His apostle. When you criticise Paul and his writings because you don't understand them and make out that he preached a gospel that is different to Christ's (which he didn't), you're implying Jesus picked the wrong person to be His apostle. God doesn't make mistakes.
Jesus never picked Paul. Jesus warned against false teachers that claim Christ appears in the desert. Jesus specifically says when he appears he will be seen by all, yet in all three descriptions of Paul's conversion story, as inconsistent as they are, Paul is the only who sees this false "Jesus". Why do you insist on not taking heed to the warnings that Christ gave? Paul's conversion story fits Jesus' warning of false Christ's to a T. Paul's appointment as an Apostle is not confirmed by any of the Disciples of Jesus.

Paul also fits the "ravenous wolf prophecy" given to Benjamin to a "T". "Benjamin is a ravenous wolf; in the morning he shall devour the prey, and at night he shall divide the spoil." In the morning of Paul's adult life he killed (devoured) Christians and in the evening/night of his life he brought division to the first century church. Three times in his writings Paul boasted about being a pharisee of the tribe of Benjamin.

Paul claimed that Peter was called to preach to the Jews and that he was called to preach a different Gospel to the Gentiles. Yet Paul only took his gospel to the Gentiles after the Jews rejected his gospel. Peter was the first one to recieve the revelation from God that the gospel was for Jews and Gentiles and proclaimed that God called him to preach to the Gentiles also. Who was Paul to claim that Peter was only called to preach to the Jews. Paul clearly new his gospel was different than the gospel that Peter, James and John Preached. He had to make up the lie that there was seperate gospel for the jews and gentiles. He literaly divided the spoil of Christ by creating division, rather than unity between Gentile and Jewish believers. This lie is is still debated in the Church to this day through the doctrine of dispensationalism.

The name Paulus means "least". Jesus says those in the kingdom will use the name of "least" -- the singular feminine elichiston of the same root adjective in Greek as in 1 Cor. 15:9 (elichistos, masculine) - to identify one who teaches relaxation of obedience to the Law of Moses. Jesus contrasts this “least” person against the “great” whom Jesus says are those who “do” and “teach“ the Law’s commands. Paul's writings are the only part of the Bible that can be used to justify Christendom's total abandonment of observing the perfect guidance and instruction of God's Torah.

The origin of Paul's converted name is not directly described in the Bible. Saul was his Hebrew name, but he was also born a Roman citizen so he was also given the Latin name "Paulus/Pauxillulus" which in Latin literally means "least". As you should know, names have great meaning in the Bible. Jesus specifically said that his church would be built on the Rock of the revelation that Peter (which means rock) received. Yet modern day Christianity is based primarily on the words of Paul, while Peter is basically an afterthought.
 





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#19
I have read it many times and recognize that it fits Jesus description of the appearing of false Christ's, in Matthew 24:26-27...Read it! LOL!
Non judgemental question. Would you consider yourself a Judaizer?
 





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#20
I have read it many times and recognize that it fits Jesus description of the appearing of false Christ's, in Matthew 24:26-27...Read it! LOL!
Hey Todd,You can take your interpretations and teaching up with the Lord At the Judgment .