Why Is The Truth And The Salvation Only Found In Judeo-christian Belief, Not In "gentilish" Beliefs?

Mr. Blah

Veteran
Joined
Mar 14, 2017
Messages
580
Why is the truth and the salvation only found in Judeo-Christian belief, not in "gentilish" beliefs?

Why is the Jewish God the true God (i.e. YHVH), not in "gentilish" gods?

What would happen with them, the poor ancient gentiles, who worshipped the false gods unintentionally for entire lifetime of their life?

God seems unfair to and discriminates the gentiles here.
 

DisenfranchisedDespot

Established
Joined
Mar 23, 2017
Messages
252
Why is the truth and the salvation only found in Judeo-Christian belief, not in "gentilish" beliefs?

Why is the Jewish God the true God (i.e. YHVH), not in "gentilish" gods?

What would happen with them, the poor ancient gentiles, who worshipped the false gods unintentionally for entire lifetime of their life?

God seems unfair to and discriminates the gentiles here.
A member of a gentile nation could have become an Israelite if they choose during the time of Israel.

Before Israel and the flood all one had to do was follow the way Adam had laid forth but only Noah and his family did.

The disobedient and non believers won't inherit anything in heaven because they turned their backs on God. There was nothing unfair about God's treatment of the Gentile in fact had every Gentile nation turned to Israel for spiritual guidance than Israel would have fulfilled its purpose.
 

Todd

Star
Joined
Apr 16, 2017
Messages
2,525
The message of the Bible is not that Jesus is the only "get out of jail free card". The message of the Bible is that Jesus is the only way to the father. Not everyone will find their way to the Father in this lifetime, but God will reconcile all to him through Christ in the ages to come. "Finding Jesus" in this lifetime is not simply about making sure we get to heaven, but being free from the power of sin starting in this age. Those who do receive reconciliation in this lifetime will have a part in bringing healing to every nation, tribe and tongue in the ages to come. So don't get snared by the fairness question, just be open if God is calling you to be one of those who are blessed to know his mercy and grace in this lifetime!
 

Mr. Blah

Veteran
Joined
Mar 14, 2017
Messages
580
A member of a gentile nation could have become an Israelite if they choose during the time of Israel.

Before Israel and the flood all one had to do was follow the way Adam had laid forth but only Noah and his family did.

The disobedient and non believers won't inherit anything in heaven because they turned their backs on God. There was nothing unfair about God's treatment of the Gentile in fact had every Gentile nation turned to Israel for spiritual guidance than Israel would have fulfilled its purpose.
I'm not satisfied with your answer because it only explains partially.

What about ancient Chinese of Japanese people in Exodic and post-Exodic age?
They were separated thousands kilometers geographically and then, of course, they didn't interact to each other.
The ancient Hebrews couldn't spread their religious influence to them.
One in Middle East region and another one in Far East region.
 

TMT

Star
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
1,201
I'm not satisfied with your answer because it only explains partially.

What about ancient Chinese of Japanese people in Exodic and post-Exodic age?
They were separated thousands kilometers geographically and then, of course, they didn't interact to each other.
The ancient Hebrews couldn't spread their religious influence to them.
One in Middle East region and another one in Far East region.
They're heathens burning in hell of course.
 

DisenfranchisedDespot

Established
Joined
Mar 23, 2017
Messages
252
I'm not satisfied with your answer because it only explains partially.

What about ancient Chinese of Japanese people in Exodic and post-Exodic age?
They were separated thousands kilometers geographically and then, of course, they didn't interact to each other.
The ancient Hebrews couldn't spread their religious influence to them.
One in Middle East region and another one in Far East region.
The Israelites couldn't even spread their religion to their neighbors and how many actually wanted to worship the Israelite God?

How often was the entire world faithful to God? Never.

There were those that came to Israel to learn but I don't conclusively know how many actually adopted the Hebrew religion.

So is your real question

What happened/happens to those that never received the message of God?
 
Last edited:

Mr. Blah

Veteran
Joined
Mar 14, 2017
Messages
580
The Israelites couldn't even spread their religion to their neighbors and how many actually wanted to worship the Israelite God?

How often was the entire world faithful to God? Never.

There were those that came to Israel to learn but I don't conclusively know how many actually adopted the Hebrew religion.

So is your real question

What happened/happens to those that never received the message of God?
Yes. That "real" question has been addressed in different words in the end of my first post.

"What would happen with them, the poor ancient gentiles, who worshipped the false gods unintentionally for entire lifetime of their life?"

=====

To your post: "What if they made mistake not adopting Hebrew religion? Would God tolerate that?"
 

Thunderian

Superstar
Joined
Mar 13, 2017
Messages
7,515
Why is the truth and the salvation only found in Judeo-Christian belief, not in "gentilish" beliefs?

Why is the Jewish God the true God (i.e. YHVH), not in "gentilish" gods?

What would happen with them, the poor ancient gentiles, who worshipped the false gods unintentionally for entire lifetime of their life?

God seems unfair to and discriminates the gentiles here.
God reveals himself through his creation and in the hearts of men. Anyone who seeks God can be sure that God will make himself known to them. I am convinced that every person who has ever lived has had the chance to make a choice for God, no matter their culture, location or upbringing.

Romans 1:20 says, For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
 

JoChris

Superstar
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
6,168
They're heathens burning in hell of course.
If that was God's will, yes they are.

Interesting passage for you. Account of how ex-pagans/ witches were converted.
Acts 19: 13 Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them which had evil spirits the name of the Lord Jesus, saying, We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preacheth. 14 And there were seven sons of one Sceva, a Jew, and chief of the priests, which did so. 15 And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye? 16 And the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, and overcame them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded. 17 And this was known to all the Jews and Greeks also dwelling at Ephesus; and fear fell on them all, and the name of the Lord Jesus was magnified.

Extra insight given in letter to same church:
Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.


So there would have been people in that church who had done similar things that you are doing now.
 

Todd

Star
Joined
Apr 16, 2017
Messages
2,525
That's not biblical.
Oh quite the contrary. The Bible is exactly were I got the idea of Universal Reconciliation. Believe it or not it was the writings of Paul that turned me onto UR to begin with. Nothing Jesus or the disciples taught contradicted what Paul said about UR, so though I may not accept Paul as an Apostle I do agree with his writings when it comes to UR.

1 Corinthians 15:20-28 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. (Nothing here to differentiate between the "ALL" who die in Adam and the "ALL" who are made alive in Christ). But every man in his own order: (So not everyone is made alive at the same time) Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. (but hold there is more....) Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. (IF death is destroyed how can anyone continue to receive the wages for sin, since the wages for sin is death) For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

1 Timothy 4:9-11. This is a faithful saying worthy of all acceptance. For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe. (KJV)

So according to Paul Jesus is the Savior of those who believe but also those who don't believe.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world

John seems to agree that Christ's sacrifice applies also to unbelievers.

Peter also seemed to think it was God's will that ALL should come to repentence and believed God was longsuffering and would not be slack concerning it.
"The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering towards us, not willing that any should perish, but that ALL should come to repentance." (2 Peter 3:9)

1 Timothy 2:3-6 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time

So if it's God's will for all men to be saved, but you contend that all men will not eventually get saved, it means God is not really omnipotent or sovereign in your theological construct. I.E. the doctrine of Eternal Torment requires that the will of a man supercedes the will of God. Eternal Torment says the stubborness of man is greater than the Love, mercy and grace of God. Paul even says that Christ is the ransom for all to be testified in due time (meaning not all will receive the testimony in this age, but all will in the ages to come)

Colossians 1:19-20 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven

Jesus seemed confident that all men would eventually be saved.
"And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw (drag in the Greek, helkuo) ALL MANKIND unto Myself." (John 12:32)

Eternal Torment requires the belief that Jesus was not capable of fulfilling what he set out to do. I have faith to believe God, and his servant the Messiah and Savior, are fully capable of doing what they set out to do. Oh yea of little faith!

James appears to think mercy triumphs over judgement
"Mercy shall TRIUMPH OVER (exalt over) judgment." (James 2:13)

Isaiah believed everyone would eventually see the Salvation of God
"The Lord had made bare His Holy arm in the eyes of all the nations; and ALL the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God." (Isaiah 52:10)

Same with David
"ALL the ends of the world shall remember and turn to the Lord, and ALL the families of the nations shall worship before You. ALL those who go down to the dust (death) shall bow before You." (Psalm 22:27, 29)

"The Lord will NOT cast off forever. Though He causes grief, yet He will show compassion according to the multitude of His
mercies." (Lam. 3:31, 32)

Peter uses the disobedeint from the time of Noah as an example that Christ suffered for the sins of the just and the unjust!

For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. I Pet 3:18-20

If the wages of sin is eternal punishment in Hell, then Jesus would have to be eternally punished if in fact He died for my sins. But the Bible says the wages of sin is death which is exactly what Jesus did--died. So how can you say people will be eternally tortured in Hell? Is Jesus presently being eternally tortured in place of those who accepted Him as Lord?
 

floss

Star
Joined
Mar 26, 2017
Messages
2,255
God seems unfair to and discriminates the gentiles here.
I think everyone have a sense of God in their heart but choose not to believe.

Roman 1
20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,
21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.
22 Professing to be wise, they became fools,
23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man

Roman 2
14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves,
15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them
 
Last edited:

Kung Fu

Superstar
Joined
Mar 24, 2017
Messages
5,087
Why is the truth and the salvation only found in Judeo-Christian belief, not in "gentilish" beliefs?

Why is the Jewish God the true God (i.e. YHVH), not in "gentilish" gods?

What would happen with them, the poor ancient gentiles, who worshipped the false gods unintentionally for entire lifetime of their life?

God seems unfair to and discriminates the gentiles here.
Within the mainstream Christian belief you must accept Jesus as your saviour, as the begotten son of the Most High, and that he died on the cross for your sins and if you don't your damned to hell for all eternity. The Jews believe that God only chose them and that God only sent prophets to them.

However, within Islam the Most High clearly states that He has sent prophets to all people so that they may know Him.
 

Lady

Star
Joined
Mar 13, 2017
Messages
1,302
ISAIAH CHAPTER 53 – THE FORBIDDEN CHAPTER.
This chapter is so clear, concise and so comprehensive that any fair-minded person, would have to agree that the prophet is speaking about the sufferings of the Messiah of Israel and of the Nations. Sadly though, because it is just so, it has become the ‘forbidden or rejected chapter’ within Judaism and is avoided by most. When pressed the Servant is interpreted as Israel and yet grammatically and exegetically the pronouns are in the personal form of which there are 50 within the 12 verses and so they speak of an individual not a nation. To see Israel as a servant unto G-d we must go to Isaiah 44:1-2 but in context, grammatically and literally Isaiah 42:1-4 and 49:5-6 speak about an individual, the Anointed One of G-d (YHVH) and Messiah. In the past and even today, within the Synagogue readings, this chapter is mainly ignored… Why?
In this present age when so many Jewish people are looking for the Messiah to come, so much comfort can be gained from knowing that He has already come and is coming again. This is the great truth of this chapter and we shall look at it in depth. Firstly, we shall see Yeshua/Jesus as a suffering Servant and then secondly when He returns, as a reigning Saviour and King over Israel and the Nations
.
http://www.symf.org.uk/yeshivah-studies/isaiah-chapter-53/

I will post a video here of modern-day Jews who are reading Isaiah 53 for the first time in their lives since this chapter has been forbidden in Jewish synogogues for centuries! In this interview setting, a few of these Jews admit that this reading describes "Yeshua." Why was this chapter hidden and forbidden from the Jews?
 
Top