Why is MGTOW growing and getting much stronger today since Feminism is everywhere?

[justjess]

So you're in a small minority who would date a short fat broke guy cuz he loves children and is a nice human being. Got it.
I don't think mgtowers would hate you. Until you start arguing over some trivial shit.

I'm talking about the majority..society in general. My brain goes that way in the context of referring to the mgtow perspective whilst a girl in here was referring to mgtowers lack of desirability.
Even if looks money and status weren't in her criteria she did mention how they wouldn't be able to afford a dowry in the old system aswell as refer to their lack of desirability which Inc looks.
I posted random mgtow material/YouTubers to dismiss her claim about them not being deisrable (no homo).
So what happens? Conveniently move the goalposts "we only care about personality".
Except that was contradicted by dissing mgtowers for not able to afford the dowry.

As for the rest..I don't care to discuss this shit with you in depth like you're hoping. 11-12 pages on you can't move on. I'm only.going back because you're bringing it up. Even justjess isn't still bringing it up.
You can't let it go and it's minor.

That post I quoted was a comparison to how men are imprisoned a lot sooner.
Most women don't don't get a penny? That wasn't the point.
See this is what I mean..youre dragging this shit on.
I gave an example of the mgtow community making a valid point when it comes to gender equality.
You claim you're only hating because on mgtowers anti-woman rhetoric...when they're usually pointing out the blatant double standards women hold which men don't.

That girl was me. They couldn’t afford the dowry because they appear to be constantly looking for or pining after women out of their league. Whether that’s fair or not. This is honestly what I think the main problem is... they are shallow, they go for women they don’t have the qualifications for and then when they get shot down they blame women in general for being shallow. Like the movie shallow hal, actually... it’s a myopic perspective based on an emotionally disturbed feedback loop.

I guess you didn’t realize you quoted justjess talking about justjess but you did.. and I’m justjess to be clear.

I know plenty of men who have been 10’s of thousands in arrears before they faced any sort of judicial problem over it. Typically they seize your tax return or tap your paychecks before it gets there and even that step takes years. You are listening to self reports, not examining the statistics. That’s going to lead to skewed data.

Look I’m a good looking women from an upper middle class background and well educated... I still know chasing after brad Pitt is above my pay grade. Do you get it? And for the record I married well below my pay grade because he literally took our last dollar to buy every kid on the block ice cream and that impressed me more than some fancy car ever could. I hated the douches I grew up with. They were too fake and materialistic.

 

[Awoken2]

It's just a swings and roundabouts thread now.

The glaringly obvious real point that this thread demonstrates is that any individuals who identifies as an acronym (MGTOW, LGBGT) are now part of a group. A group that identifies as an acronym has only one purpose, to cause division....whether the individual is aware of this fact is irrelevant.

Maybe MGTOW was kicked off by a group of wounded aesthetically displeasing rich men who in a moment of madness said "yes I'll marry you" to a calculating, merciless, scheming golddigger who subsequently rinsed him in the divorce court at the earliest opportunity. Who's at fault there, the guy who let his dick do the thinking or the mugger in heels and lipstick?...... neither, both parties are getting something out of tbe deal at some point.

Men need women and women need men (not exclusively I know) The only variable is what one needs the other for.

 

[DesertRose]

The glaringly obvious real point that this thread demonstrates is that any individuals who identifies as an acronym (MGTOW, LGBGT) are now part of a group. A group that identifies as an acronym has only one purpose, to cause division....whether the individual is aware of this fact is irrelevant

That makes sense.
The first time I heard about this group I was sympathetic but with time I noticed the female bashing that was on par with the male bashing by radical feminists. Two sides of the same coin that will what? Help lead to depopulation agendas?
the usage of one's subjective experience to castigate an entire group....smells like the same stuff I have seen elsewhere.....
who is making it a battle of the sexes........who is causing discord and to what end?
This below by Jordan Peterson was an interesting perspective...
looks like the court systems are not working for many groups.

 

[Lisa]

Men need women and women need men (not exclusively I know) The only variable is what one needs the other for.

Companionship and babies?

 

[AspiringSoul]

And? That jibe offend you? My god, how sensitive are you?


No, it doesn't and @justjess clarified on that yet you keep ignoring that. It says more to YOUR shallowness that you automatically assume the foremost meaning is looks. Most women have their own jobs and don't need to rely on a partner for money although it's always nice to have someone who is financially stable and that goes for both sexes. And again, the wrong type of women focuses on status. Men tend to gravitate towards those and then feign shock and disgust when things don't pan out. Take some responsibility there.


You been to all those places? Because the gender dynamics are vastly different in each of the countries you mentioned.


There are so many double standards you blatantly ignore when it comes to men. For one, I doubt you'll make any commentary on man whores seeing as you called out women riding the "cock carousel". Or the fact that men are much more prone to being superficial in terms of a potential partner's looks. Or how many men have discarded their wives once they get bored or walked out on their families. No, men are perfect and only men have valid reasons for not wanting to be around women. You're a damn hypocrite.


No but "you men" have your own standards you judge women against. Let's not play coy about that.


Which means jack shit if you pick the right partner or sign a prenup. For the millionth time. There are couples who had an amicable and fair divorce and who are friendly and co-parent their kids well.


Your opinion and projection is not basic truth. You literally ignore everything you don't or can't answer. Wonderful maturity by the way . . . . You're a real catch.


Don't we all.

And? That jibe offend you? My god, how sensitive are you?

I was pointing out the hypocrisy in dissing mgtow men whilst claiming mgtow men dissing women!!
if you're going to argue with me, get it right you dumb twat.

Then there's the assumption that those men fit certain stereotypes. I posted videos of youtubers promoting mgtow primarily to show that they're clearly not part of that stereotype. it's a lot more diverse.
Since then the discussion has revolved around semantics and he said she said shit. JUST like this exchange here eg 'how sensitive are you?' even though right now im just responding to you blatantly ignoring the context behind what im saying.

For example i posted a completely unrelated video responding to someone about prostitution..in the context i said 'compared to this girl (who i feel very sorry for) there are fat ugly whales promoting sex work and getting paid a lot of money. I was called out for that eg 'he was mad at women dissing men but now he's dissing women', despite the context and my intent being totally different. i have no issues if women think certain men are 'fat ugly dogs' in comparitive terms, but it's applying that label to a whole group when it clearly isnt true.
imagine i said 'yeh, feminists, they're all fat ugly whales'.
vs 'there are fat ugly whales do are currently involved in certain things' (this isnt a generalisation, it's a fact..barring the gross description).


2) so it's men's fault for gravitating towards the wrong type of women when there are plenty of good ones? if only that was true.
The vast majority of women are obsessed with looks, status/money and will switch when a better offer comes BUT that is totally fine!!
The problem is when the system is rigged against men so much so they get shafted under the legal system. Look at Paul Mccartney.
Prenups ideally are the right choice, but asking for a prenup is blatantly saying 'i dont trust you'. The whole process of 'i luff you, vill you marry me?' isnt meant to inc 'and sign this paper to prove it'.

you're still resorting to blaming men for getting shafted by women.


3) You been to all those places? Because the gender dynamics are vastly different in each of the countries you mentioned.

no they're not. it's the same, humans are the same
men care about looks and personality
women care about looks, status/money and personality.
whether they get that or not is a different matter, i was referring to what people want.

4)
There are so many double standards you blatantly ignore when it comes to men. For one, I doubt you'll make any commentary on man whores seeing as you called out women riding the "cock carousel". Or the fact that men are much more prone to being superficial in terms of a potential partner's looks. Or how many men have discarded their wives once they get bored or walked out on their families. No, men are perfect and only men have valid reasons for not wanting to be around women. You're a damn hypocrite.

No but "you men" have your own standards you judge women against. Let's not play coy about that.


you obv don't know me. @manama im bringing you here not because i expect you to have my back, but you'll know what im referring to.
Guys who fuck around like hounds, then grow a token islamic beard and put on that 'inshamashallah' talk to impress a GOOD muslim girl to bring back home.
i FUCKING hate those guys. they also have a reputation as clowns where i come from.
furthermore i already stated the obvious thing..i said 'i have no problem with women being mad at men as long as its for CREDIBLE reasons.
however, you still missed the point. The system, as it is today, still favours women in divorce and custody...that's like 99% of the argument put forward by mgtowers.


You're a damn hypocrite.
you're insane lmao.

this is why i dont want to have this discussion with you, it usually goes like this

you: YOU HYPOCRITE, YOU ARE ALVAYZ BLAMING WIMMIN BUT NEVA EVA MEN!!!
me: no that's not true, you're crazy
you:

you're crazy

YOU MEN ARE ALWAYZ BLAH BLAH BLAH

that's not true

BLAH BLAH BLAH.

 

[AspiringSoul]

That girl was me. They couldn’t afford the dowry because they appear to be constantly looking for or pining after women out of their league. Whether that’s fair or not. This is honestly what I think the main problem is... they are shallow, they go for women they don’t have the qualifications for and then when they get shot down they blame women in general for being shallow. Like the movie shallow hal, actually... it’s a myopic perspective based on an emotionally disturbed feedback loop.

I guess you didn’t realize you quoted justjess talking about justjess but you did.. and I’m justjess to be clear.

I know plenty of men who have been 10’s of thousands in arrears before they faced any sort of judicial problem over it. Typically they seize your tax return or tap your paychecks before it gets there and even that step takes years. You are listening to self reports, not examining the statistics. That’s going to lead to skewed data.

Look I’m a good looking women from an upper middle class background and well educated... I still know chasing after brad Pitt is above my pay grade. Do you get it? And for the record I married well below my pay grade because he literally took our last dollar to buy every kid on the block ice cream and that impressed me more than some fancy car ever could. I hated the douches I grew up with. They were too fake and materialistic.

Well done for noticing.
The problem is you're assuming these things about a large group that constists of men from all walks and backgrounds. Seriously. It's just men who have had bad experiences and decided they've had enough. You can't generalise about them unless they have pictures and their relationship/sexual history up.
I admit, it's unhealthy to see them none stop obsessing with women, that defeats the point of 'going their own way' however it's an online community where you're always getting new guys coming in sharing their thoughts and eventually disappearing. what they go on to do, i dont know. ideally they would just go on living the good life.

I guess you didn’t realize you quoted justjess talking about justjess but you did.. and I’m justjess to be clear.
congrats, nice to meet you lustless
so @Robin is the crazy one and you're the relatively calm one.
ill try to remember, it's just both of you were quoting me and i sort of just got confused.


You are listening to self reports, not examining the statistics.
i did Further statistics at A-level back in college days, just saying. Statistics was my strong point. although ive forgotten most of what i learnt since my career is in IT.
The problem is the hypothesis itself is a subjective interpretation that's going to lack case by case contexts anyway.
So it's like 'oh look here's a stat of men' 'here'a a stat of women'
inbetween that you have contexts eg women not paying child support, where are they living? their age, ethnicity, economic situation etc.
so really personal experiences are the right way to go
eg "i did x and got y" vs "someone else did x and got y10, wtf why?"
ultimately the biggest selling point for mgtow is that we live in an unfair system that favours women and persecutes men in divorce/custody

YET, ive seen many cases where men are deadbeats and marry a girl who puts the money towards the mortgage, earns more etc and then men go for half the house in divorce because they paid a bit of money towards the mortgage.
However, we either tend to hear about it more with women (esp high profile cases).
if it became relatively normal for men to do this to women, im pretty sure i wouldnt be dissing women for 'going their own way'.

 

[justjess]

i might be assuming but i think its more an educated guess or observartion. i study human behavior for a living and prior to that was a social worker dealing with dysfunctional toxic families. there was 100 page thread on mgtow on one of the previous versions of this forum and i spent a lot of time on their sites and reading through their articles - the single most obvious constant? hatred - vile bitter all consuming hatred - for women. now you dont hate something that passionately for no reason and the reason appears to be - in the aggregate - lack of success with relationships - whether that means cant get a date or ex cheated on him or was taken to the cleaner in a divorce or whatever all those things represent some form of failure in romantic relationships.

now you can take that failure and look at it and acknowledge what role you played - shitty choice of wife, no confidence approaching women, focusing on the wrong things in a potential mate etc etc this could be a billion things - work on those things and try again. or you can turn to a movement that tells you the problem isnt you at all its women generally and engage in circle jerks complaining about how horrible women are - which is easier and will make you feel better quickly - but it wont solve the problem. because women alone ARENT the problem.

the statistics on child support are pretty objective and straight forward. for every story u have of some guy being taken to the cleaners i have atleast one of a woman who never saw a dime. only 50-60% of noncustodial parents even get child support and the average payment is like $300/month. and of the parents who even get a payment a slim minority get the full amount.

so while i understand the frustration - i understand it on both sides. if a woman wasnt getting child support and started saying the things about men that these men say about women id tell her she was nuts and wrong and to calm the fuck down. and im a "feminist"

 

[Robin]

And? That jibe offend you? My god, how sensitive are you?

I was pointing out the hypocrisy in dissing mgtow men whilst claiming mgtow men dissing women!!
if you're going to argue with me, get it right you dumb twat.

I was comparing that one comment she made with the ones you've been making.

Women do ride the cock carousel until they run out of options. Women look for money and looks.. GENERALLY.

I've seen complete dogs brag about how easy it was for them to get dick.

Then there's the assumption that those men fit certain stereotypes. I posted videos of youtubers promoting mgtow primarily to show that they're clearly not part of that stereotype. it's a lot more diverse.
Since then the discussion has revolved around semantics and he said she said shit. JUST like this exchange here eg 'how sensitive are you?' even though right now im just responding to you blatantly ignoring the context behind what im saying.

But it was acknowledged that there are more factors to desirability than just looks, wealth and status.

For example i posted a completely unrelated video responding to someone about prostitution..in the context i said 'compared to this girl (who i feel very sorry for) there are fat ugly whales promoting sex work and getting paid a lot of money. I was called out for that eg 'he was mad at women dissing men but now he's dissing women', despite the context and my intent being totally different. i have no issues if women think certain men are 'fat ugly dogs' in comparitive terms, but it's applying that label to a whole group when it clearly isnt true.
imagine i said 'yeh, feminists, they're all fat ugly whales'.
vs 'there are fat ugly whales do are currently involved in certain things' (this isnt a generalisation, it's a fact..barring the gross description).

It was probably meant in the same blasé attitude as the dowry comment in that it wasn't the main point of the comment to deride men for being "poor", as yours wasn't women for being ugly but you still found it offensive. As did I, admittedly.

2) so it's men's fault for gravitating towards the wrong type of women when there are plenty of good ones? if only that was true.
The vast majority of women are obsessed with looks, status/money and will switch when a better offer comes BUT that is totally fine!!

Here is how I understand it (and feel free to call me a dumb twat if you disagree) -yes there are many women who have learned to manipulate their looks to get what they want. Conversely, the majority of men I would say do place a lot of emphasis on looks. So I would say responsibility needs to be taken on that count. There are also a lot of women who don't want to be financially dependant on their partners but for some or other reason many men find that problematic. All I'm trying to do is point out that just like there are women who discard men for a better option there are men who trade in women for a better model. Both are wrong but neither discounts that there are still good and decent people in both sexes.

The problem is when the system is rigged against men so much so they get shafted under the legal system. Look at Paul Mccartney.
Prenups ideally are the right choice, but asking for a prenup is blatantly saying 'i dont trust you'. The whole process of 'i luff you, vill you marry me?' isnt meant to inc 'and sign this paper to prove it'.

I don't see why it should be. Prenups would automatically avoid a lot of this mess and anyone with two working braincells would understand why it would be important to sign one unless they had an ulterior motive. Bingo, problem solved and future wife vetted.

you're still resorting to blaming men for getting shafted by women.

No. I'm just saying that there's no sense in blaming women for the unjustness in the legal system regarding marriage if there are ways to protect yourself.

3) You been to all those places? Because the gender dynamics are vastly different in each of the countries you mentioned.

no they're not. it's the same, humans are the same
men care about looks and personality
women care about looks, status/money and personality.
whether they get that or not is a different matter, i was referring to what people want.

Maybe but culture dictates how dating works in practice. And there are differences in gender dynamics.

4)
There are so many double standards you blatantly ignore when it comes to men. For one, I doubt you'll make any commentary on man whores seeing as you called out women riding the "cock carousel". Or the fact that men are much more prone to being superficial in terms of a potential partner's looks. Or how many men have discarded their wives once they get bored or walked out on their families. No, men are perfect and only men have valid reasons for not wanting to be around women. You're a damn hypocrite.

No but "you men" have your own standards you judge women against. Let's not play coy about that.


you obv don't know me. @manama im bringing you here not because i expect you to have my back, but you'll know what im referring to.
Guys who fuck around like hounds, then grow a token islamic beard and put on that 'inshamashallah' talk to impress a GOOD muslim girl to bring back home.
i FUCKING hate those guys. they also have a reputation as clowns where i come from.
furthermore i already stated the obvious thing..i said 'i have no problem with women being mad at men as long as its for CREDIBLE reasons.
however, you still missed the point. The system, as it is today, still favours women in divorce and custody...that's like 99% of the argument put forward by mgtowers.

But that's what I just don't get. I've acknowledged it countless times but I've also said that if this is the main qualm, it is avoidable. Again there are friendly couples who have gone through a divorce and share equal custody of their kids which prove that even if the system is rigged, choosing the right partner plays a big enough role to factor out the inevitability that divorce will always end in the worst possible scenario for the man.

You're a damn hypocrite.
you're insane lmao.

this is why i dont want to have this discussion with you, it usually goes like this

you: YOU HYPOCRITE, YOU ARE ALVAYZ BLAMING WIMMIN BUT NEVA EVA MEN!!!
me: no that's not true, you're crazy
you:
YOU MEN ARE ALWAYZ BLAH BLAH BLAH

BLAH BLAH BLAH.

That's not how I've been arguing. I like to think I'm pretty fair in my stance.

The same can be said for MGTOW. At it's core, the message would've been good. There are unfair systematic disadvantages for men when it comes to marriage and children and there are a lot of men who have been through the wringer and absolutely destroyed by women. There are a lot of women who have also had their lives destroyed by men. But a lot of what these men complain about is self-inflicted based on their poor dating choices.

Look, you clearly seem to think I hate men. I'm sorry if I gave off that impression, and I am also sorry for the insults I gave. I'm just frustrated because I have a close family friend who is part of this group. He is a wonderful guy who was put through hell by his ex wife and my heart breaks for him because not only is he incredibly lonely, but he became convinced that the only way to adjust to the "new game" was to dissolve his traditional gentleman-like upbringing. He's changed completely and has such a pessimistic outlook on life. I'm not saying this is the outcome for every MGTOWer, but it's the one I've seen up close. I also think a lot of this is caused by using the mainstream culture to promote materialism and superficiality and then creating strawmen of each sex for the other to viciously attack. We've been primed for a gender war and I really think MGTOW, while parading as something good (like feminism) is a big part of it. I'm not going to respond again because this is just going in circles.

 

[Dalit]

Has anyone posted this yet?

I'm in agreement with her that MGTOW is most likely from men choosing narcissistic women repeatedly. Same goes for women choosing narcissistic men or letting them choose them (WGTOW?). Maybe from not dealing with toxic parents wounds, perhaps a narcissist mother and/or father. I think it's cyclical and comes from not being self-aware.

 

[Faker He-Man]

Plenty of very severely mentally retarded women everywhere nowadays unfortunately, unlike the old days when most women back then were Real Ladies and the very complete opposite of today altogether.

Don't give up yet, @Vixy might date you. You seem like her type. You two should get to know each other.

 

[TC1968]

For some reason this is the only video of a standing ovation I could find on YT. Still fits though

 

[TC1968]

Has anyone posted this yet?

I'm in agreement with her that MGTOW is most likely from men choosing narcissistic women repeatedly. Same goes for women choosing narcissistic men or letting them choose them (WGTOW?). Maybe from not dealing with toxic parents wounds, perhaps a narcissist mother and/or father. I think it's cyclical and comes from not being self-aware.

Totally agreed

In both cases men and women tend to throw out the vibe that they will allow people to treat them this way, almost like throwing chum out in shark infested waters. I do not know if it is intentional or if they do it subconsciously, but I have seen how people who manage to get out of abusive relationships, seem to be surrounded almost immediately by carbon copies of the person they just got rid of.

 

[HealingHugs]

Because internet i assume. Back in ye olde times, let's say the 90's (lol) people would pick up the phone or go and seek advice from an outside influence but now it's easier and more gratifying go on the internet and seek those in like minded states. And I think it's fine for a bit but eventually you have to move forward and remove yourself from that holding you back. I mean I really hope MGTOW men eventually feel a bit better and move on from those feelings because I just find the separation of the sexes a bit of a dangerous situation for everyone in that said country. So it just feels like an agenda that people need to see through.
I would suggest some research as to where the majority of MGTOW are from, has anyone done that? It seems American to me because of terms like "Cuck" and the prominence of focus on the Alpha male "Chad" lol, American for sure, so what's going on over there then eh? Seems like an agenda to me.

 

[TempestOfTempo]

There are now 3-4 current MGTOW threads going on right now..... agenda pushing...... right here in River City!

 

[Orwell's mentor]

There are now 3-4 current MGTOW threads going on right now..... agenda pushing...... right here in River City!

Yup, and while I can’t take credit for the post as @DesertRose posted it here, all threads seem to be leaning to the #3 described in her post, which is a bait fight.

Added to the fact that two of the threads have been created with accounts solely to discuss MGTOW, it's useless fodder.

 

[TokiEl]

Homosexuals are on the top of the food chain and they don't want men and women to procreate willy nilly. It's their earth or so they think and too many people on it already. Besides they the homosexuals have today figured out how to procreate scientifically... without women.

 

[Awoken2]

Most women are just such very horrible creatures, especially when we will try to start a normal conversation with a woman that we would like too meet which then they will Curse at many of us men for no reason.

Have you ever contemplated that your normal conversion may be a bit shit?

....don't thank me.

 

[Robin]

This is very obviously a bait thread lol. But on the off chance @Feminism is being serious, here's a suggestion: try dating men. There, problem solved.

 

[free2018]

Homosexuals are on the top of the food chain and they don't want men and women to procreate willy nilly. It's their earth or so they think and too many people on it already. Besides they the homosexuals have today figured out how to procreate scientifically... without women.

Homosexuals?
Naw, they're just Satanists. They're into Babylonian magic and much more.

 

[free2018]

With most women being such low life losers these days which is why MGTOW saves many of us single men's lives, and we will avoid all the drama and misery from these very pathetic women as well.

Going your own way is not about proselytizing. That defeats the point of going your own way.