Why I Hate Political Parties (US)

Do you hate Political Parties?

  • Yes

    Votes: 13 92.9%
  • No

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Maybe

    Votes: 1 7.1%

  • Total voters
    14
Joined
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Duh... that's one of the reasons why I'm saying you should stop glorifying them.

So they created the US to benefit people like them, they excluded the poor and women and non-white people.
You don't get it. Think in the context of the time. Yes it wasn't great for everyone, but overtime it got better. Still not perfect, but we're much better
 

Zoidberg

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I'm looking at American history right now and that's what I'm talking about... our leaders have not been very great.
Some Americans leaders have been horrible, I agree with you, but the Founding Fathers weren't white devils. BUT! We never had leaders like Sheikh Hasina who killed 2500 protestors of him, Adolf Hitler who initiated World War II and killed Jews, Joseph Stalin who brutally murdered religious people and supported Communism, Mao Zedong of China who starved his country, Kim Jong Un of North Korea who censors his people, and other people ARE WAY WORSE. We never had those kinds of leaders in our country. AND THE FOUNDING FATHERS aren't that at all. I'm so thankful!
 

mecca

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We never had leaders like Sheikh Hasina who killed 2500 protestors of him, Adolf Hitler who initiated World War II and killed Jews, Joseph Stalin who brutally murdered religious people and supported Communism, Mao Zedong of China who starved his country, Kim Jong Un of North Korea who censors his people, and other people ARE WAY WORSE. We never had those kinds of leaders in our country. AND THE FOUNDING FATHERS aren't that at all. I'm so thankful!
Ok... but just because the founding fathers are not hitler, doesn't mean we can't point out the bad things they did. Slavery, sexism, and taking the native american's land are all very terrible things that have long lasting harmful impacts on large groups of people. Just because you don't think these things are very bad or they have not directly affected you, doesn't mean they aren't just as horrible as other terrible events in history. These are all things that the founding fathers had a hand in.
 
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ag
Ok... but just because the founding fathers are not hitler, doesn't mean we can't point out the bad things they did. Slavery, sexism, and taking the native american's land are all very terrible things that have long lasting harmful impacts on large groups of people.
again it was a different time in history.
 

mecca

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the Founding Fathers weren't white devils
Kind of what you're hinting at though
Nope... it's not. I have said nothing like that. Pointing out the ways in which race has shaped America and our government has nothing to do with the idea of "white devils"... and attempting to criticize me on the assumption that I am promoting that concept is ingenuine and deceptive. I'm pointing out the fact that the founding fathers were racist and did not care about non-white people, that has nothing to do with "white devils". You just have to accept that reality and stop glorifying these men instead of trying to find ways to discredit what I said by putting words in my mouth.
 
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Nope... it's not. I have said nothing like that. Pointing out the ways in which race has shaped America and our government has nothing to do with the idea of "white devils"... and attempting to criticize me on the assumption that I am promoting that concept is ingenuine.
You just don't want to acknowledge that "again it was a different time in history" comment I made huh?
 

mecca

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Women fought for their rights in America
Yes... they had to fight for basic human rights which were not "granted" to them in the constitution... because, like I said, the founding fathers excluded women, non-whites, and poor people from the supposed rights and freedoms that were in the constitution. They did not care about anyone except their own class.
The Native Americans originally were our friends and people.
No, they were always mistreated... they were killed and their land was stolen. When the constitution was written, no Native Americans had a say, they were not considered because the founding fathers were creating a country for themselves, they had no regard for others. How about you come back to reality.
Horrible people like Andrew Jackson came AFTER our Founding Fathers. The killing of Native Americans was a dark part of America's history.
Wrong... Andrew Jackson's plans were laid out by Thomas Jefferson, a founding father himself. The founding fathers did not treat Native Americans like "friends"... they saw them as "uncivilized", they took over their land with no regard for them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Jefferson_and_Native_Americans

I can't believe you're trying to deny how messed up the founding fathers were just so you can feel better about glorifying them, they don't deserve it. No man should be worshiped, especially not the "founding fathers". You can appreciate some of the laws they created but that does not warrant denying the reality of who they actually were. The reality is that this country was created by not so perfect people in a not so perfect way.
Poor people are mainly people with mental illnesses, diseases, or people who need to be treated.
No, they were everyone except the elites. Most people back then were not wealthy landowners like the founding fathers were. Poor people are the masses. Before the voting laws dropped the requirement for white men to own property, almost no one was able to vote except the rich white men, who only made up 6% of the population... everyone else, (the poor) had no political power. The wealthy elites had all the control.
 
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Yes... they had to fight for basic human rights which were not "granted" to them in the constitution... because, like I said, the founding fathers excluded women, non-whites, and poor people from the supposed rights and freedoms that were in the constitution. They did not care about anyone except their own class.

No, they were always mistreated... they were killed and their land was stolen. When the constitution was written, no Native Americans had a say, they were not considered because the founding fathers were creating a country for themselves, they had no regard for others. How about you come back to reality.

Wrong... Andrew Jackson's plans were laid out by Thomas Jefferson, a founding father himself. The founding fathers did not treat Native Americans like "friends"... they saw them as "uncivilized", they took over their land with no regard for them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Jefferson_and_Native_Americans

No, they were everyone except the elites. Most people back then were not wealthy landowners like the founding fathers were. Poor people are the masses. Before the voting laws dropped the requirement for white men to own property, almost no one was able to vote except the rich white men, who only made up 6% of the population... everyone else, (the poor) had no political power. The wealthy elites had all the control.
But the rights are GRANTED in the bill of rights, which is an add-on for the constitution. They also made a country for colonists of the 13 colonies.
 
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Yes... they had to fight for basic human rights which were not "granted" to them in the constitution... because, like I said, the founding fathers excluded women, non-whites, and poor people from the supposed rights and freedoms that were in the constitution. They did not care about anyone except their own class.

No, they were always mistreated... they were killed and their land was stolen. When the constitution was written, no Native Americans had a say, they were not considered because the founding fathers were creating a country for themselves, they had no regard for others. How about you come back to reality.

Wrong... Andrew Jackson's plans were laid out by Thomas Jefferson, a founding father himself. The founding fathers did not treat Native Americans like "friends"... they saw them as "uncivilized", they took over their land with no regard for them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Jefferson_and_Native_Americans

No, they were everyone except the elites. Most people back then were not wealthy landowners like the founding fathers were. Poor people are the masses. Before the voting laws dropped the requirement for white men to own property, almost no one was able to vote except the rich white men, who only made up 6% of the population... everyone else, (the poor) had no political power. The wealthy elites had all the control.
also that wikipedia article says this ''Thomas Jefferson believed Native American peoples to be a noble race[1] who were "in body and mind equal to the whiteman"[2] and were endowed with an innate moral sense and a marked capacity for reason.''
 
Joined
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Messages
1,709
Yes... they had to fight for basic human rights which were not "granted" to them in the constitution... because, like I said, the founding fathers excluded women, non-whites, and poor people from the supposed rights and freedoms that were in the constitution. They did not care about anyone except their own class.

No, they were always mistreated... they were killed and their land was stolen. When the constitution was written, no Native Americans had a say, they were not considered because the founding fathers were creating a country for themselves, they had no regard for others. How about you come back to reality.

Wrong... Andrew Jackson's plans were laid out by Thomas Jefferson, a founding father himself. The founding fathers did not treat Native Americans like "friends"... they saw them as "uncivilized", they took over their land with no regard for them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Jefferson_and_Native_Americans

I can't believe you're trying to deny how messed up the founding fathers were just so you can feel better about glorifying them, they don't deserve it. No man should be worshiped, especially not the "founding fathers". You can appreciate some of the laws they created but that does not warrant denying the reality of who they actually were. The reality is that this country was created by not so perfect people in a not so perfect way.

No, they were everyone except the elites. Most people back then were not wealthy landowners like the founding fathers were. Poor people are the masses. Before the voting laws dropped the requirement for white men to own property, almost no one was able to vote except the rich white men, who only made up 6% of the population... everyone else, (the poor) had no political power. The wealthy elites had all the control.
who the hell said this country was perfect, and yes they did bad things but that doesn't mean we need to completely shun them.
 

mecca

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also that wikipedia article says this ''Thomas Jefferson believed Native American peoples to be a noble race[1] who were "in body and mind equal to the whiteman"[2] and were endowed with an innate moral sense and a marked capacity for reason.''
I love how that's all you took from it... what about the rest? What about him outlining the plans to forcibly remove them from their land? What about his belief that they were uncivilized savages? He obviously had no regard or respect for them.
Jefferson developed plans for Indian Removal to lands West of the Mississippi(As far as the Rocky Mountains), including forced removal such as that carried out by later presidents in the Trail of Tears. Before and during his presidency, Jefferson discussed the need for respect, brotherhood, and trade with the Native Americans, and he initially believed that causing them to adopt European-style agriculture and modes of living would allow them to quickly "progress" from "savagery" to "civilization". Yet beginning in 1803, Jefferson's private letters show increasing support for a policy of removal.
Jefferson's original plan was to get native women pregnant to give up their own cultures, religions, and lifestyles in favor of western European culture, Christian religion, and a sedentary agricultural lifestyle. Jefferson's expectation was that by assimilating the natives into a market-based, agricultural society and stripping them of their self-sufficiency, they would become economically heavily dependent on trade with white Americans, and would thereby be willing to give up land that they would otherwise not part with, in exchange for trade goods or to resolve unpaid debts.
Thomas Jefferson, our founding father, the writer of the declaration of independence, was not a good man. Accept it... it's okay to accept the harsh reality of this country, it can only make us healthier and more capable of fixing our mistakes.
 
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I love how that's all you took from it... what about the rest? What about him outlining the plans to forcibly remove them from their land? What about his belief that they were uncivilized savages? He obviously had no regard or respect for them.

Thomas Jefferson, our founding father, the writer of the declaration of independence, was not a good man. Accept it... it's okay to accept the harsh reality of this country, it can only make us healthier and more capable of fixing our mistakes.
I’ll accept the harsh reality in context, when YOU accept the harsh reality of REAL LIFE Communism.
 

mecca

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I’ll accept the harsh reality in context, when YOU accept the harsh reality of REAL LIFE Communism.
Lol, I already know that state capitalism was a failed experiment. I don't support state capitalism, but I do support real communism.
 
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Lol, I already know that state capitalism was a failed experiment. I don't support state capitalism, but I do support real communism.
That’s not state capitalism you twit. Real communism has FAILED. Real world communism has FAILED.
 
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