I don't agree with feminism but that part of my life is behind me and don't feel like arguing about it no longer. I will say this however, that the gender pay gap has been thoroughly looked into by scholars and mathematicians and when looked in detail there is nothing unfair about it. People are stupid and only look at the surface of the issue but when digging deep everything all of a sudden makes sense and it has nothing to do with gender bias.
Why Feminism isn't needed anymore (except in 3rd world countries)
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Kung fu ' weve both posted scholarly articles about the gender pay gap, somehow they found different things. I can only assume thats due to some sort of underlying difference of perspective since if there was no bias somewhere they would all find the same thing one way or another which is why i dont even argue it anymore. What everyone does seem able to agree on is that traditionally female professions are paid less, so i stick with that. Because even if thats all it is that is still a problem. Those traditionally female professions arent any easier or require less skill or education. Its about what we value as a society and for some reason we dont valur the traditionally feminine as much as we do the traditionally masculine despite both being just as necessary to society.
Welfare benefits and child suppprt favor those with children. Due to patriarchal norms that tends to be women more then men. If a man was primary caretaker they would get just as much in welfare benefits, and they would also get child support - if they asked for it in both cases.
The vast majority of r*pe cases are never prosecuted, the vast majority of rapists never punished. The false claims rate on r*pe is lower then for any other crime, its miniscule. Why would i focus on that when actual rapists walking free is a much bigger problem statistically?
All public servants should be paid better but where im from police and fire fighters already make substantially more then teachers and child protective services workers, they are also respected a whole hell of a lot more.
The pay rate for these jobs where i live isdetermined by the county commissioners. When cps wprkers complained about their poverty wages they were told by the county commissioners that it was womens work and meant to supplement their husbands paycheck.. do u have any idea how difficult a cps workers job is? How dangerous? Ive been in numerous situations so screwed up when i called the cops to come out and assist me they did not want to because of how volatile it was going to be.
Welfare benefits and child suppprt favor those with children. Due to patriarchal norms that tends to be women more then men. If a man was primary caretaker they would get just as much in welfare benefits, and they would also get child support - if they asked for it in both cases.
The vast majority of r*pe cases are never prosecuted, the vast majority of rapists never punished. The false claims rate on r*pe is lower then for any other crime, its miniscule. Why would i focus on that when actual rapists walking free is a much bigger problem statistically?
All public servants should be paid better but where im from police and fire fighters already make substantially more then teachers and child protective services workers, they are also respected a whole hell of a lot more.
The pay rate for these jobs where i live isdetermined by the county commissioners. When cps wprkers complained about their poverty wages they were told by the county commissioners that it was womens work and meant to supplement their husbands paycheck.. do u have any idea how difficult a cps workers job is? How dangerous? Ive been in numerous situations so screwed up when i called the cops to come out and assist me they did not want to because of how volatile it was going to be.
I just don't have the energy I used to have on here so I'm not going to fight you on the rest but on this point I think location matters. In Canada public servants get paid way too well. From teachers to police officers they make a heck of a lot more than any other private institution worker gets paid. In Canada if you're a public servant you're set for life. You have good pay, good vacation, good benefits, and your pension is by far the best. I'm sure any other Canadian on here can vouch for this.
But then in the US I hear it's the complete opposite.
I honestly dont have the energy either..
Depends on the state. NJ or NY seem similar to canada, PA and most of the rest of the country they barely get paid at all. I slashed my salary in half for rhe exact same position when i left jersey for pennsylvania and cost of living didnt account for it at all.
Depends on the state. NJ or NY seem similar to canada, PA and most of the rest of the country they barely get paid at all. I slashed my salary in half for rhe exact same position when i left jersey for pennsylvania and cost of living didnt account for it at all.
Sunshine
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Even in a western, relatively egalitarian society like the US, we have a long way to go. I spent my life before I got married as a chef, and the let me tell you, the pay gap is REAL. Same skills, same hours, same responsibilities, and I made 10% to 25% less than the guys in the kitchen. It was ridiculous. I am sure it is the same in many industries, including the corporate business world.
And let's not forget the ongoing low-level discrimination. Sure, it's a lot better than the "Mad Men" style of the 60's, but women still have to deal with being propositioned, grabbed, ridiculed and otherwise demeaned on a regular basis, whether it's at work or walking down the street. Don't believe me? Ask your sister, ask your mom, ask your friends.
I think the modern version of the feminist movement is not dealing with these issues effectively. This generation of women haven't had to deal with the really overt acts of discrimination like back in the day, except for those buying into the Hollywood-type b.s. to achieve fame or power. (Sidenote: It is amusing to see celebrities on a soap box preaching against it right now, but if any of them were really interested in changing that system, they would have done so already, by refusing to participate when it first happened to them, and speaking out before it became a "trend." Few and far between are the chicks like Carrie Fisher who stood up to the cretins in the studios the from the outset of their careers.)
It's the women with the s*** jobs I worry about. The maids, the nannies, the clerks and waitresses and field workers and janitors, that have to put up with harassment and assault just to keep the bills paid. No one is fighting for them. That is where I, as a woman, would like the "women's movement" to spend some social capital. Then maybe we could get closer to closing the gender gaps, in pay, in safety, in respect.
And let's not forget the ongoing low-level discrimination. Sure, it's a lot better than the "Mad Men" style of the 60's, but women still have to deal with being propositioned, grabbed, ridiculed and otherwise demeaned on a regular basis, whether it's at work or walking down the street. Don't believe me? Ask your sister, ask your mom, ask your friends.
I think the modern version of the feminist movement is not dealing with these issues effectively. This generation of women haven't had to deal with the really overt acts of discrimination like back in the day, except for those buying into the Hollywood-type b.s. to achieve fame or power. (Sidenote: It is amusing to see celebrities on a soap box preaching against it right now, but if any of them were really interested in changing that system, they would have done so already, by refusing to participate when it first happened to them, and speaking out before it became a "trend." Few and far between are the chicks like Carrie Fisher who stood up to the cretins in the studios the from the outset of their careers.)
It's the women with the s*** jobs I worry about. The maids, the nannies, the clerks and waitresses and field workers and janitors, that have to put up with harassment and assault just to keep the bills paid. No one is fighting for them. That is where I, as a woman, would like the "women's movement" to spend some social capital. Then maybe we could get closer to closing the gender gaps, in pay, in safety, in respect.
I posted that same sentiment on one of the millions of articles about this hollywood sex scandal and was basically attacked by all the so called feminists commenting on there - its funny how society only cares aboit these issues when its beautiful rich powerful white women who are the victims
enderpotato00
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WHen will you be satisfied and you do know that the end goal is to reproduce right?
mecca
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When hate, bigotry, and prejudice is wiped from the Earth lol. That's my goal... to minimize racism, sexism, and hate as much as possible. The closer we get, the better humanity becomes. No one should be mistreated or seen as lesser because of the way they were born.
What?
enderpotato00
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That’s not going to happen though. There will always be these things. Feminism really is pointless in the long run b/c these things will never be achievable. It can get better, but will never go away.
mecca
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It can't get better unless people are making it better.
enderpotato00
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Good point but still why use a movement that will never achieve true equality?
mecca
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Feminism is about advancing equality as much as possible. Regardless if it's fully achievable, any progress is good progress and we can't allow ourselves to give up or regress back. Improvement can always be made and all the good things we currently have need to be maintained. If we stop caring, then things will go back to the ways they were and get even worse.
enderpotato00
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But women are already treated better in this country than we men are. We are shunned if we try to say we got raped, while with women, people are immediately sympathetic. Us men in some ways are being more discriminated than women are now.
Lolol you are delusoonal if you truly think people are immediately synpathetic to female victims.
enderpotato00
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People usually agree with a women when she’s been raped. Us men are laughed at when we say the same thing.
Youre wrong. Bottom line.
enderpotato00
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And how to you know that?
rainerann
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I don't agree that men are laughed at. However, I don't think there is the same comfort level in disclosing something like this that there is for a woman. Maybe like 20 years ago, I remember I was considering going to a group for survivors of sexual assault. I chickened out and didn't go, but it was the only thing that seemed available at the time.
When I went to the library, there was one book on the subject. It was maybe 10 years later that I started finding more resources on the internet and had more access to books through Amazon. This opened up a big world that has been developed to help victims, so in many respects, there is a lot more freedom to express that you have experienced sexual assault for women.
These women welcome male survivors and there are a lot of them, so men being able to come forward is going to continue to happen more and more. I do not think that equality in this regard is not so severely imbalanced as you are suggesting because of this.
The conviction rate is a different subject that may be used to fuel an argument supporting feminism, but a lot of rapes are not reported because many people feel isolated in their experience. As awareness to a larger community increases, people will start coming forward on their own.
As a result, this does not prove that law enforcement is not defending victims. They are incapable of doing this if the victims cannot come forward and I don't always think the movement that is referred to as "feminist" seem to really understand how to motivate more victims to come forward. I don't know if it matters either, because it can't be forced. It is going to be a social change that will require patience towards victims as they develop a community that will encourage this response. If anything, I think they hinder the process in many ways because the agenda promotes fear and a very negative view towards the world when we should be celebrating how far we have come and using this to prove that there is no need to fear what is ahead.
The presence of oppression towards women is really more individual than systemic today. Individuals may have misogynist views, but this is not a favored position to hold in the community anymore. If anything, there is a stigma for it and a person is likely to be ostracized for having a misogynist perspective.
Research, statisrics, personal experience..
Raineran - conviction rates only consider crimes that have been reported so your off base with that.. they are dismal, r*pe kits frequently arent even tested, and female victims are commonly treated like theyre the criminal themselves - this is a seperate issue from under reporting but its usually a big part of the reason people dont report
rainerann
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I don't disagree that the process of investigation could improve, but it is not a primary reason that people do not report. Fear of the perpetrator and a past history of abuse is a major deciding factor over whether a victim will decide to go to the police. When you consider statistics that suggest that most people know their perpetrator in a personal way and that r*pe is not as often committed by a stranger, as the stereotype suggests. Victims do not often report because they know this person and some percentage of the people they know have a relationship with this person as well.
I have participated in many discussions with victims debating this subject and this is the reason behind why investigative methods remain so archaic and are not able to be improved through application--there are only a limited number of victims attempting to report. More victims are willing to report when the perpetrator is a stranger. It is very possible that this contributed to the stereotype. It would be nice if we could just make an announcement to victims saying it was okay to report, but that isn't going fix it. The process cannot be forced and it is dependent on the victim's experience with the recovery process.
What people who consider themselves feminists could be doing to help this process along, is working with victims to understand the complications that are created in the reporting process by being the victim as well as the witness to this crime. It is dual role that most criminal cases do not encounter. If someone is stealing someone's bag, the victim of this crime does not also have to serve as the witness. The emotional toll that is created by wearing so many hats within a criminal case prosecuting r*pe is overwhelming. So instead of using a megaphone to tell the world that they are still too misogynist, this could be a more productive to continue improving conditions for women within a community. However, many people are actively doing this. So again, I think the claims from the 3rd wave feminist movement are often exaggerated and selfishly motivated to achieve some sort personal recognition as an advocate, which carries a positive social image in the world today.