Why Do You Think Jesus Is The Son Of God?

Red Sky at Morning

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It doesn't matter though, none of God's revelation remains in it - only copies of copies of copies of what may (or may not) have been what He the Most High revealed to His Prophets.

That is why God sent down His final revelation - the Quran - to clarify the truth so you don't have to speculate. May God guide me, you and anyone who loves Him with all their hearts, souls and minds, to the truth of what we differ about - Amen.
Please know that I wouldn't try to persuade you of the truth of the Gospel if you didn't matter to me. May the Lord bless you and protect you. I know we disagree but I also hope you know I respect your freedom to choose and the strength of your conviction.
 

Red Sky at Morning

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I appreciate you efforts, Red but it still seems there is no other person other than Muhammad(pbuh) that those verses describe. On your idols bit. Medina and Mecca were full of idol worshipers. Over a hundred different idol gods being worshiped. The same can't be said about Jesus when he came to the Israelites.

The facts remain that Jesus did not make the people of Kedar rejoice, did not make the people of Sela sing let alone even travel to Medina, was not a warrior or have an army, and did not sing a new song in the sense that he came to the Jews (if you want to be really technical you could advocate Paul being the new Song in a sense), and had nothing to do with idols compared to Muhammad(pbuh). Muhammad(pbuh) rid the entire Middle East of idol worship. Now if he didn't have God's help then I don't know what to say.
Do you take my point that I believe these things are yet to be fulfilled in the future return of Jesus?

I understand your interpretation, you might understand mine some time... They can't both be true, but I will leave it here for me tonight... Peace be upon you both, @Kung Fu and @grateful servant
 
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Please know that I wouldn't try to persuade you of the truth of the Gospel if you didn't matter to me. May the Lord bless you and protect you. I know we disagree but I also hope you know I respect your freedom to choose and the strength of your conviction.
Which Gospel? Paul's? The only true Gospel was revealed to Jesus and that is no longer with us. I'm not appealing to your emotions and quite frankly I don't care if you respect my free will or not. God guides whom He wills.
 

Kung Fu

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Do you take my point that I believe these things are yet to be fulfilled in the future return of Jesus?

I understand your interpretation, you might understand mine some time... They can't both be true, but I will leave it here for me tonight... Peace be upon you both, @Kung Fu and @grateful servant
On your part about Jesus's return, yes, I do believe they can be fulfilled but then I also believe that when Jesus does return all the confusion will be put to rest, thus at the end it wouldn't really matter. However, in this moment in time reading verses 10-17 I can't see it being any other person in history other than Muhammad(pbuh).

Alright, thanks for the discussion, I truly did enjoy it. Peace be upon you!
 

Karlysymon

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I still don't understand why,... you use the Bible as a secondary source to affirm his status as a prophet, anchoring him in a way, in Jewish tradition, thereby, buttressing your own beliefs.
Whether you don't realise it or outright deny it, you use the bible to buttress your own beliefs. It is your job, as someone who belongs to a faith, to proselytize or win people over. If i asked you, as a prospective convert, to prove to me the status of the final prophet, outside of the Quran (thus a secondary witness), you are obviously going to reach out to the progenitors of the faith (OT). This isn't even in debate or discussion, but in trying to convince a prospective convert, you not only cement them in the faith but buttress yourself simultaneously, as the videos @grateful servant posted. Which is why i don't understand why you whip out a questionable source to convince me and yourself in-turn.
Like @Damien50 said, scripture is its own interpreter. For example, the money paid to Judas was mentioned by 2 different prophets in different epochs, so was Christ's hometown. You can't just use that section of the chapter 42 to prove your point, there has to be more evidence. For me, it remains a prophecy about Christ. Care to provide more verses explicitly stating the prophet arising out of Kedar just as Micah and Jeremiah did in Christ's case? Certainly Deuteronomy 18 has none of that.
 

Karlysymon

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Jesus said he is the Messiah - I agree. Jesus said he is son of the Blessed One just as all of God's righteous prophets were called His sons in the OT.
Yes, but He immediately describes His position to the Father and future glory. Doesn't that count? Why was He condemned for blasphemy? Why did the high priest cry out 'blasphemy'?

Blasphemy: the act of claiming the attributes of a deity
 

Daciple

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That's simply you reading into your biases. The verses that I posted concisely talk about Muhammad(pbuh). There is absolutely no way you can attribute Isaiah 42: 10-17 to Jesus. Let's stick to those verses. If you can show me any other person that fits that description I'll have a listen.
Sure it fits Jesus, even tho you reject it, but lets look at your personal interpretation in comparison to both Scriptures and History:

This new song is the coming of a new prophet with a new way of life(religion) and as you know Islam, like the prophet said, is for all of mankind.
Ok so according to what I have learned from Muslims, Muhammad NEVER instituted a new way of life or religion, instead he simply turned people back to what was originally taught, is this correct or not?

Jesus however did come to bring a new way of life to the Israelites, and to the World. Jesus Christ was bringing in the New Covenant:

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.


Matt 26:27 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;
28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

The Old Testament tells us God will be creating a New Covenant in which He forgives and remembers Sin no more, Jesus comes and outright says He pours out His Blood to bring in the New Testament aka Covenant and that it is for the forgiveness or remission of Sin. Jesus actually brought something new, Muhammad supposedly didnt bring anything new but supposedly re-instituted what had already been established.

We know the people of Kedar to be the Arabs and the descendants of Ishmael.
Agree.

When Muhammad(pbuh) revealed the message and it reached all the Arabs they raised their voices and rejoiced in happiness literally.
And the same can be said for all those who hear the Gospel of Jesus Christ who dwell in Kedar, but what is more important is to understand Kedar in terms of Biblical Symbolism. First and foremost is the difference in the Bible between Issac and Ishmael, for one represent the Blessing of the Promise and one represent the Curse:

According to the Bible, which you are using as evidence of Muhammads coming, it says that Ishmael came because of Abrahams lack of faith, sleeping with Hagar when he was supposed to have his child with Sarah as God stated would happen. Abraham and Sarah didnt believe so she told him have sex with Hagar and this is how Ishmael came to be, as the son of disobedience. However God being God kept His promise and soon after Issac was born and according to the Bible which you are using as evidence for Muhammad it says:

Gen 21:12 And God said unto Abraham, Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah hath said unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for in Isaac shall thy seed be called.

So Ishmael is the son of disobedience in the Bible and Isaac is the Son of the Promise, it is because of Abrahams lack of faith we have many of the problems we do today concerning the wars and violence in the middle east, had he just believed and stayed in faith to God then only one son would have been born and there would be no conflict as we see today.This is demonstrated as well in the New Testament:

Gal 4:22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.


So we have Ishmael the son of disobedience and he has children one of which is Kedar. And in the Bible what does Kedar mean and represent?

Kedar

blackness; sorrow

So we see that Kedar means blackness or sorrow and in the Bible the place is always referred to as someplace or some peoples in a negative way.

Psalm 120:1 In my distress I cried unto the Lord, and he heard me.
2 Deliver my soul, O Lord, from lying lips, and from a deceitful tongue.
3 What shall be given unto thee? or what shall be done unto thee, thou false tongue?
4 Sharp arrows of the mighty, with coals of juniper.
5 Woe is me, that I sojourn in Mesech, that I dwell in the tents of Kedar!
6 My soul hath long dwelt with him that hateth peace
.
7 I am for peace: but when I speak, they are for war.

Essentially it is a representation symbolically of being cut off from God, for being of war and destruction, of being vile and barbarous. This is the state of all men before being Born Again, this is a representation of Sin as well. So yet again we see that whether it be locationally those actually living in the tents of Kedar or symbolically all of mankind who have been cut off from God, whose flesh only desires war and destruction and who live vile and barbarous, we all sing, rejoice and shout when we have come to Christ knowing that our Sins are forgiven that we have been saved from Hell and that we are now given the Holy Spirit and New Man that allows us to turn from our vile and barbarous ways and live for Christ.

Sela is a mountain in Medina and when the prophet would enter the city the inhabitants of the city would literally sing in joy.
While that may be true the writer had zero intention of speaking about that place, as mentioned the writer was clearly speaking of Sela in Edom which he would be familiar with:

Sela (Arabic: السلع‎‎, Hebrew: סֶּלַע‎‎, transliteration Sela‛, meaning rock; Arabic: as-Sala‛; Greek: πέτρα; Latin: petra) was the capital of Edom

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sela_(Edom)

And again if we were to look at what Edom represents symbolically in the Bible we would see it too is a representation of Sin and being cut off from God, from a descendant who sold his birth right for nothing who was cursed. Very very similar to Kedar and Ishmael. Point being in context of the entire Bible the author is speaking of ALL of the Heathen Nations being one to shout for joy when the New Song aka New Covenant would be established as the New Covenant has finally allowed all men to go from being cut off from God to being able by the Blood of Christ to stand in the Holiest of the Holies by the Throne with boldness by grace. That is what this passage is speaking about and Muhammad did not do this, only Christ brought ALL the Heathen Nations to reconciliation to God.

Muhammad(pbuh) was a warrior and led an army. He triumphed over his enemies and the battle cry of his army was "God is Great".
The Bible says LIKE a warrior, and while you can not comprehend it at the moment Jesus did come with a battle cry and He did come and defeated His foes, but just like the Jews of His day you dont understand the foe that He came to defeat. It is a foe that Muhammad can never defeat in fact Muhammad was completely destroyed and lost to this foe, and the foe is Death and Hell. Muhammad died and according the Bible that you are using to try and say it predicts Muhammad in it, he is in Hell. Jesus came and He waged war on Death and Hell themselves, and He conquered the Grave, He conquered Death and He conquered Hell. Jesus died and resurrected overcoming the World, Death and Hell. And when He comes back He will indeed destroy all of His other enimies but for now He is offering the World including you Grace so that you dont have to Die and be thrown into Hell. Once He comes back that is it whoever hasnt been Born Again will be thrown into the Lake of Fire, Grace will be done...

Muhammad(pbuh) rid the Middle East of idolatry. When he entered Mecca all the idolators literally turned and ran in shame and embarrassment.
While I understand your point, I do not agree, as I personally believe that most Muslims are stuck in idol worship, which of course I dont expect you to accept. Just as you claim I am in idol worship for my beliefs I too find Muslims are in idol worship bowing to the Kabba, you can claim anything you want about not worshiping it and try and justify it however you would like, it is idol worship in the same manner as Catholic worship idols with Mary.

Regardless this verse can apply to Jesus as well, or in fact any Prophet for that matter as it is a general statement to all who worship idols, if you worship idols or anything apart from YHWH the One True God then you will be turned back in shame. However you cut it the facts are these verses nor any other verses in the Word of God have anything to do with predicting Muhammad, why? Because Muhammad isnt a prophet of YHWH, he didnt continue the message of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses or Jesus, in fact he turns all of them into liars and turns the entire Bible on its head.

I dont expect you to agree, in fact I doubt you will read what I have wrote, but its very clear that Muhammad isnt predicted in these verses or anywhere else in the Bible...
 
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Yes, but He immediately describes His position to the Father and future glory. Doesn't that count? Why was He condemned for blasphemy? Why did the high priest cry out 'blasphemy'?

Blasphemy: the act of claiming the attributes of a deity
So according to the passage (which is already dubious as far as I'm concerned because it is nothing more than an anonymous copy of a copy of a copy of an anonymous original etc) - the pharisees, saducees and scribes, the very same people Jesus publicly condemned and called hypocrites, den of vipers, children of Satan and so on, charged him with blasphemy because Jesus said that he was their Messiah - which they denied, and a prophet (son of God) which they denied, and that they would "see the son of man sitting on the right hand of power descending in clouds" ?? And because the mortal enemies of Jesus who were known liars and hypocrites, accused him of blasphemy, and since a charge of blasphemy is only because someone supposedly claimed to be God - which Jesus did not even claim to be - you say it means that Jesus is God? Sorry but no. No way.

Sorry Karly, but you can't prove a falsehood as truth, especially when it comes to the Creator of the heavens and earth and all that exists. Whenever you are ready to learn what it means to truly submit to God and gain salvation, please drop me a PM. Until then, you are in my prayers.
 
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Yes, but He immediately describes His position to the Father and future glory. Doesn't that count? Why was He condemned for blasphemy? Why did the high priest cry out 'blasphemy'?

Blasphemy: the act of claiming the attributes of a deity
Dont you think its better to assume that they accused him of blasphemy because they werent righteous nor trying to be like Jesus said, rather than assume it was for a legit reason? If Jesus says one thing that exemplifies how he isnt God (I go to my God/Father your God/Father) then in the next scene says something that says he is the God THEY should be worshiping, then they were right, by their law, to put him to death.
 

Red Sky at Morning

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@KoncreteMind - Do you think the verses Christians attribute to the prophets pointing forward to Jesus stand scrutiny? Are they reading things in and ignoring other pointers? Just wondered what your take might be?
 
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@KoncreteMind - Do you think the verses Christians attribute to the prophets pointing forward to Jesus stand scrutiny? Are they reading things in and ignoring other pointers? Just wondered what your take might be?
Yes alot of them, in my view, speak of the one people call Jesus. But not all of them. For instance, I dont see the "born of a virgin" prophecy that supposedly came from Isaiah 7:14 applying to him if you go by the context of the verse...
 

Red Sky at Morning

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Yes alot of them, in my view, speak of the one people call Jesus. But not all of them. For instance, I dont see the "born of a virgin" prophecy that supposedly came from Isaiah 7:14 applying to him if you go by the context of the verse...
I would agree that there are two kinds of prophecies concerning the coming Messiah - some which spell it out in capital letters and others for those 'with ears to hear them'.
 

Karlysymon

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@grateful servant

I read the article you posted twice refuting the IAM of John 8:58 and i thought it a stretch to disregard Christ's claim because the Pharisees and Saducees were known liars and children of the devil. George Bush (a bones-man) and his cabinet lied about WMDs in Iraq. So when they say: the sky is blue, 2+2=4 and the grass is green, that is false too?
Why was Christ crucified? First of all, it is a historical event (which you cannot deny). He was killed in a very public place during the Passover week (thus fulfilling prophecy as the passover Lamb), with a million people in town from diverse places. As was the custom, your name and crime was pinned at the top of the cross. John 19:19-23

"Now Pilate wrote a title and put it on the cross. And the writing was: JESUS OF NAZARETH, THE KING OF THE JEWS. Then many of the Jews read this title, for the place where Jesus was crucified was near the city; and it was written in Hebrew, Greek, and Latin. Therefore the chief priests of the Jews said to Pilate, “Do not write, ‘The King of the Jews,’ but, ‘He said, “I am the King of the Jews.”’” Pilate answered, “What I have written, I have written.”

Why would Pilate write that if, as he knew well enough, Christ didn't have so much as a palace, an army or an earthly kingdom? Add to that, the fact that the Jews protested to the very end that He wasn't their king but just a made up claim of His?
[@KoncreteMind aswell]:
The Sanhedrin charged Him of blasphemy because He spoke the truth. And it was the only they could get rid of Him. Christ's response/defence to the charges is what sealed His fate. If he hadn't replied, would he have been sentenced?
Many of the prophecies pointed to Him as both a King and Suffering servant.
Yes, the priests and Scribes were His mortal enemies but were still under the Spirit's influence to speak the truth. John 11:47-53

"Then the chief priests and the Pharisees gathered a council and said, “What shall we do? For this Man works many signs. If we let Him alone like this, everyone will believe in Him, and the Romans will come and take away both our place and nation.” And one of them, Caiaphas, being high priest that year, said to them, “You know nothing at all, nor do you consider that it is
expedient for us that one man should die for the
people, and not that the
whole nation should perish.” Now this he did not say on his own authority; but being high priest that year he prophesied that Jesus
would die for the nation, and not for that nation only, but also that He would gather together in one the children of God who were scattered abroad. Then, from that day on, they plotted to put Him to death."

As for your comment of the bible being a result of countless copies, i don't know what you'll say when 'legit' papyri is unearthered that disputes Isaiah 42:10-17 and Deuteronomy 18:15-18

Christians aren't desperate to have Christ as a diety. We believe it because its in our Holy Writ and backed up by historical facts. We may have copies of a copy of a copy of a copy etc but Jews have managed to preserve their millenia-old traditions, such as Yom Kippur, which strangely enough, remain faithful to the questionable/doubtful copies.

You know i love you even though we don't see eye to eye theologically. God bless you!
 

Red Sky at Morning

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I remember watching Diary of a Wimpy Kid, Rodrick Rules. Greg submitted a very accurate copy of Rodrick's homework entitled "100 years ago".

"Sometimes I sit and wonder
About stuff I do not know
Like, what the earth was like
a hundred years ago
Did cavemen ride on dinosaurs?
Did flowers even grow?
Did spiders rule the earth?
Were deserts filled with snow?
There were no books or humans
So how are we to know,
What the earth was like
a hundred years ago."

After it was read out in class in the film, and I had stopped laughing, it gradually occurred to me that 100% textual integrity to the original is not the only thing that matters...
 

Karlysymon

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@Karlysymon - It is worth noting that virtually every ancient document is a copy of a copy of a copy...
Even as a copy, Daniel 2 & 8, very often feature in people's testimonies of returning to the faith. They prove that the bible is reliable because the prophecy was/is fulfilled to a T. Ofcourse, there's always that argument that the Book of Daniel was written in the 2nd century AD.

@Red Sky at Morning
Exactly, you need faith to believe what you have in your hands because you weren't there as an eye-witness. Thankfully, God cares about our spirituality and doesn't require us to have blind faith. He has preserved solid witnesses that testify for and establish confidence in the written record...so that men will be without excuse.
 
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Lady

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I thought I saw a discussion on the phrase "Son of God" earlier in this thread (@KoncreteMind ). Here is a great addition from answeringislam.org on Jesus' revered and unique position above others who have been labeled as sons of God in scriptures. When used as one of the descriptors for Jesus Christ, it sets Him apart from all the rest-definitively!
Jesus, on the other hand, is the unique Son of God:

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son (ton huion ton monogenee), that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life… Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son (tou monogenous huiou tou theou)." John 3:16, 18

The term monogenes literally means of sole descent, only one of its kind, unique (*). Thus, Jesus is the only Son of his kind, God’s Son in a unique manner, Son in a sense that no one else is.(1)

Christ’s uniqueness consists of his having the following qualities and characteristics:

1.He bears the very nature of God:

"The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. For we do not preach ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, and ourselves as your servants for Jesus' sake. For God, who said, ‘Let light shine out of darkness,’ made his light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ." 2 Corinthians 4:4-6

"Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped," Philippians 2:5-6

"He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation… For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him," Colossians 1:15, 19

"The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven." Hebrews 1:3

Christ bearing the nature or form of God and being the very exact representation of God’s being means that he is fully God in essence, that he has every essential attribute of God. This is precisely the point made by both John and Paul in their inspired writings:

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God (kai theos een ho logos)." John 1:1

John places the word "God" (theos) before the verb "was" (een) in order to stress and emphasize the qualities or nature of the Word. John is basically saying that the Word has all the essential qualities of Deity, possessing the very nature of God. Paul says the same thing when he writes that:

"For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form," Colossians 2:9

In light of this does it come as a surprise that Jesus is addressed as God or Theos in the NT?

"Thomas said to him, ‘My Lord and my God!’" John 20:28

"Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen." Romans 9:5

"while we wait for the blessed hope—the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ," Titus 2:13

"Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours:" 2 Peter 1:1

Or that OT prophecy identifies him as the Mighty God?

"For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace." Isaiah 9:6-7

God Bless as you read, study, and meditate upon His true word.
 

Kung Fu

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Sure it fits Jesus, even tho you reject it, but lets look at your personal interpretation in comparison to both Scriptures and History:



Ok so according to what I have learned from Muslims, Muhammad NEVER instituted a new way of life or religion, instead he simply turned people back to what was originally taught, is this correct or not?

Jesus however did come to bring a new way of life to the Israelites, and to the World. Jesus Christ was bringing in the New Covenant:
The new Song can signify to a new prophet coming and if go by the description of the verses the new prophet fits Muhammad(pbuh) and not Jesus. Jesus only came to the Israelites and to reaffirm what Moses(pbuh) taught.


And the same can be said for all those who hear the Gospel of Jesus Christ who dwell in Kedar, but what is more important is to understand Kedar in terms of Biblical Symbolism. First and foremost is the difference in the Bible between Issac and Ishmael, for one represent the Blessing of the Promise and one represent the Curse:

According to the Bible, which you are using as evidence of Muhammads coming, it says that Ishmael came because of Abrahams lack of faith, sleeping with Hagar when he was supposed to have his child with Sarah as God stated would happen. Abraham and Sarah didnt believe so she told him have sex with Hagar and this is how Ishmael came to be, as the son of disobedience. However God being God kept His promise and soon after Issac was born and according to the Bible which you are using as evidence for Muhammad it says:

So Ishmael is the son of disobedience in the Bible and Isaac is the Son of the Promise, it is because of Abrahams lack of faith we have many of the problems we do today concerning the wars and violence in the middle east, had he just believed and stayed in faith to God then only one son would have been born and there would be no conflict as we see today.This is demonstrated as well in the New Testament:

So we have Ishmael the son of disobedience and he has children one of which is Kedar. And in the Bible what does Kedar mean and represent?

Kedar

blackness; sorrow

So we see that Kedar means blackness or sorrow and in the Bible the place is always referred to as someplace or some peoples in a negative way.
I got to give you credit for jumping through all those hola-hoops in trying to twist the "SETTLEMENTS of where Kedar LIVES" to not mean what it means. The OT is plainly saying that this new prophet will make the people of Kedar, who are the Ishmaelits, rejoice and the only person who has done that is Muhammad(pbuh). Arabia and the rest of the Middle East almost all became Muslim. It's pointing to a people and where they live and guess what the people are Arab and they will rejoice and the last time I checked the only person that made them do that is Muhammad(pbuh). You can try to twist it however you like but the verse is clear.


While that may be true the writer had zero intention of speaking about that place, as mentioned the writer was clearly speaking of Sela in Edom which he would be familiar with:

Sela (Arabic: السلع‎‎, Hebrew: סֶּלַע‎‎, transliteration Sela‛, meaning rock; Arabic: as-Sala‛; Greek: πέτρα; Latin: petra) was the capital of Edom

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sela_(Edom)

And again if we were to look at what Edom represents symbolically in the Bible we would see it too is a representation of Sin and being cut off from God, from a descendant who sold his birth right for nothing who was cursed. Very very similar to Kedar and Ishmael. Point being in context of the entire Bible the author is speaking of ALL of the Heathen Nations being one to shout for joy when the New Song aka New Covenant would be established as the New Covenant has finally allowed all men to go from being cut off from God to being able by the Blood of Christ to stand in the Holiest of the Holies by the Throne with boldness by grace. That is what this passage is speaking about and Muhammad did not do this, only Christ brought ALL the Heathen Nations to reconciliation to God.
Sela, is a MOUNTAIN located in MEDINA and when the prophet would enter the city the inhabits literally sang for joy. It describes the verse to the T. But let's play your twisted game and say Sela is not in Medina but the capital of Edom it still wouldn't make a difference because Edom was in what is today modern day Jordan which were inhabited by Arabs and still is to this day.



The Bible says LIKE a warrior, and while you can not comprehend it at the moment Jesus did come with a battle cry and He did come and defeated His foes, but just like the Jews of His day you dont understand the foe that He came to defeat. It is a foe that Muhammad can never defeat in fact Muhammad was completely destroyed and lost to this foe, and the foe is Death and Hell. Muhammad died and according the Bible that you are using to try and say it predicts Muhammad in it, he is in Hell. Jesus came and He waged war on Death and Hell themselves, and He conquered the Grave, He conquered Death and He conquered Hell. Jesus died and resurrected overcoming the World, Death and Hell. And when He comes back He will indeed destroy all of His other enimies but for now He is offering the World including you Grace so that you dont have to Die and be thrown into Hell. Once He comes back that is it whoever hasnt been Born Again will be thrown into the Lake of Fire, Grace will be done...
Not only me but no rational person can. All you have is opinion and conjecture here. Jesus didn't have a battle cry and was no warrior. Let's get the facts straight and stop the hola-hoop jumping.

While I understand your point, I do not agree, as I personally believe that most Muslims are stuck in idol worship, which of course I dont expect you to accept. Just as you claim I am in idol worship for my beliefs I too find Muslims are in idol worship bowing to the Kabba, you can claim anything you want about not worshiping it and try and justify it however you would like, it is idol worship in the same manner as Catholic worship idols with Mary.

Regardless this verse can apply to Jesus as well, or in fact any Prophet for that matter as it is a general statement to all who worship idols, if you worship idols or anything apart from YHWH the One True God then you will be turned back in shame. However you cut it the facts are these verses nor any other verses in the Word of God have anything to do with predicting Muhammad, why? Because Muhammad isnt a prophet of YHWH, he didnt continue the message of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses or Jesus, in fact he turns all of them into liars and turns the entire Bible on its head.

I dont expect you to agree, in fact I doubt you will read what I have wrote, but its very clear that Muhammad isnt predicted in these verses or anywhere else in the Bible...
You tell us we worship idols when you worship a man who went to the washroom and something along the lines of Casper the Ghost so please don't tell me we're idol worshipers you polytheist. We worship One God and the Quran has made this clear. We bow down to One God 5 times a day.

So now that we have established that Jesus has nothing to with the people of Kedar, and that he was nowhere in Sela, and not a warrior, and didn't do anything to idols is there anyone else you would like to mention? Thus far the verses perfectly point to Muhammad(pbuh) and I think that burns you but I don't blame you because if it does point to him it completely shatters your beliefs and what you deem to be the "truth".
 

Red Sky at Morning

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The new Song can signify to a new prophet coming and if go by the description of the verses the new prophet fits Muhammad(pbuh) and not Jesus. Jesus only came to the Israelites and to reaffirm what Moses(pbuh) taught.




I got to give you credit for jumping through all those hola-hoops in trying to twist the "SETTLEMENTS of where Kedar LIVES" to not mean what it means. The OT is plainly saying that this new prophet will make the people of Kedar, who are the Ishmaelits, rejoice and the only person who has done that is Muhammad(pbuh). Arabia and the rest of the Middle East almost all became Muslim. It's pointing to a people and where they live and guess what the people are Arab and they will rejoice and the last time I checked the only person that made them do that is Muhammad(pbuh). You can try to twist it however you like but the verse is clear.




Sela, is a MOUNTAIN located in MEDINA and when the prophet would enter the city the inhabits literally sang for joy. It describes the verse to the T. But let's play your twisted game and say Sela is not in Medina but the capital of Edom it still wouldn't make a difference because Edom was in what is today modern day Jordan which were inhabited by Arabs and still is to this day.





Not only me but no rational person can. All you have is opinion and conjecture here. Jesus didn't have a battle cry and was no warrior. Let's get the facts straight and stop the hola-hoop jumping.



You tell us we worship idols when you worship a man who went to the washroom and something along the lines of Casper the Ghost so please don't tell me we're idol worshipers you polytheist. We worship One God and the Quran has made this clear. We bow down to One God 5 times a day.

So now that we have established that Jesus has nothing to with the people of Kedar, and that he was nowhere in Sela, and not a warrior, and didn't do anything to idols is there anyone else you would like to mention? Thus far the verses perfectly point to Muhammad(pbuh) and I think that burns you but I don't blame you because if it does point to him it completely shatters your beliefs and what you deem to be the "truth".
I think it is possible to see pattern in the earthly ministry of Jesus, but I do suspect the completion of these verses is yet future. The language, places and events resonate with other verses describing "The Day of the Lord"...

To appreciate the degree to which they do you would have needed to study these other references too @Kung Fu (which I totally excuse you for, not being of the Christian faith yourself...)
 
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