Why Do You Think Jesus Is The Son Of God?

Red Sky at Morning

Superstar
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
13,933
Because he was the Messiah and last of the Israelite prophets who along with his cousin John, foretold of the coming of God's final messenger to mankind, Muhammad... and I will leave that for your consideration ...
I can't help but wonder why no other prophet is described, patterned and anticipated the way that Jesus was...
 
Joined
Mar 22, 2017
Messages
3,150
I can't help but wonder why no other prophet is described, patterned and anticipated the way that Jesus was...
Well let's see - you surmise it is because Jesus is actually God, and I tell you it is because of what I suggested for you to consider. I can't help but wonder why Trinitarians misinterpret the OT to fit their creed, but to each their own.
 

Red Sky at Morning

Superstar
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
13,933
Because he was the Messiah and last of the Israelite prophets who along with his cousin John, foretold of the coming of God's final messenger to mankind, Muhammad... and I will leave that for your consideration ...
Just so I understand properly, which Bible verses would you interpret as pointing forward to Muhammed as the final messenger?
 

Karlysymon

Superstar
Joined
Mar 18, 2017
Messages
6,722
I can't help but wonder why no other prophet is described, patterned and anticipated the way that Jesus was...
Indeed, more tokens from heaven, with many witnesses, lending weight to the identity of that Person (Luke 2:8-14)
" And there were in the same country shepherds
abiding in the field,
keeping watch over their
flock by night. And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid. And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord. And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger. And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host
praising God, and saying, Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men."

Why is Jesus the Son of God? He has power to forgive sins (The healing of the Paralytic Mark 2:1-12)

"When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick
of the palsy, Son, thy sins
be forgiven thee. But there was certain of the scribes sitting there, and reasoning in their hearts, Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who
can forgive sins but God
only? And immediately when Jesus perceived in his spirit that they so reasoned within themselves, He said
unto them, Why reason ye
these things in your hearts? Whether is it easier to say to the sick of the palsy, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and take up thy bed, and walk? But that ye may know that the Son of man hath
power on earth to forgive
sins,..."
 

Kung Fu

Superstar
Joined
Mar 24, 2017
Messages
5,087
Just so I understand properly, which Bible verses would you interpret as pointing forward to Muhammed as the final messenger?
Isaiah 42: 10-17 points to no other man that Muhammad(pbuh). There is absolutely no ambiguity as to who the person is.

Song of Praise to the Lord
10 Sing to the Lord a new song,
his praise from the ends of the earth,
you who go down to the sea, and all that is in it,
you islands, and all who live in them.
11 Let the wilderness and its towns raise their voices;
let the settlements where Kedar lives rejoice.
Let the people of Sela sing for joy;
let them shout from the mountaintops.
12 Let them give glory to the Lord
and proclaim his praise in the islands.
13 The Lord will march out like a champion,
like a warrior he will stir up his zeal;
with a shout he will raise the battle cry
and will triumph over his enemies.
14 “For a long time I have kept silent,
I have been quiet and held myself back.
But now, like a woman in childbirth,
I cry out, I gasp and pant.
15 I will lay waste the mountains and hills
and dry up all their vegetation;
I will turn rivers into islands
and dry up the pools.
16 I will lead the blind by ways they have not known,
along unfamiliar paths I will guide them;
I will turn the darkness into light before them
and make the rough places smooth.
These are the things I will do;
I will not forsake them.
17 But those who trust in idols,
who say to images, ‘You are our gods,’
will be turned back in utter shame.
 

Red Sky at Morning

Superstar
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
13,933
Isaiah 42: 10-17 points to no other man that Muhammad(pbuh). There is absolutely no ambiguity as to who the person is.

Song of Praise to the Lord
10 Sing to the Lord a new song,
his praise from the ends of the earth,
you who go down to the sea, and all that is in it,
you islands, and all who live in them.
11 Let the wilderness and its towns raise their voices;
let the settlements where Kedar lives rejoice.
Let the people of Sela sing for joy;
let them shout from the mountaintops.
12 Let them give glory to the Lord
and proclaim his praise in the islands.
13 The Lord will march out like a champion,
like a warrior he will stir up his zeal;
with a shout he will raise the battle cry
and will triumph over his enemies.
14 “For a long time I have kept silent,
I have been quiet and held myself back.
But now, like a woman in childbirth,
I cry out, I gasp and pant.
15 I will lay waste the mountains and hills
and dry up all their vegetation;
I will turn rivers into islands
and dry up the pools.
16 I will lead the blind by ways they have not known,
along unfamiliar paths I will guide them;
I will turn the darkness into light before them
and make the rough places smooth.
These are the things I will do;
I will not forsake them.
17 But those who trust in idols,
who say to images, ‘You are our gods,’
will be turned back in utter shame.
Ok... I'm perhaps not seeing it through Islamic eyes? Which part in particular do you see the allusion to Muhammed in?
 

Karlysymon

Superstar
Joined
Mar 18, 2017
Messages
6,722
But how can the entire 42nd chapter of Isaiah speak about two different messengers? Because it verily talks about Christ.

" But when Jesus knew it, He withdrew from there.
And great multitudes
followed Him, and He healed them all. Yet He warned them not to make Him known, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Isaiah the prophet, saying:
“Behold! My Servant
whom I have chosen, My Beloved in whom My soul is well pleased! I will put My Spirit upon Him, And He will declare justice to the Gentiles. He will not quarrel nor cry out,Nor will anyone hear His voice in the streets. A bruised reed He will not break, And smoking flax He will not quench, Till He sends forth
justice to victory; And in His name Gentiles will trust.” Matt 12:15-21

This is happening in the context of Christ healing a man on the Sabbath. I also have to ask, if Muhammad is the final prophet, i take it to mean there will NEVER be another prophet, local or one sent to a mass. And if that it the case, what am i to make of this? Joel 2:28-32
"“And it shall come to pass afterward That I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh;
Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
Your old men shall dream dreams, Your young men shall see visions. And also on My menservants and on My maidservants I will pour out My Spirit in those days. “And I will show
wonders in the heavens and in the earth: Blood and fire and pillars of smoke.
The sun shall be turned
into darkness, And the moon into blood, Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the
LORD. And it shall come to
pass That whoever calls on
the name of the LORD
Shall be saved."
 

floss

Star
Joined
Mar 26, 2017
Messages
2,255
Why does a reprobate mind of an ex-catholic/muslim(samething really) think they know more about Jesus Christ than CHRISTians? The whole bible point toward a REDEEMER not just another life manual from a mere prophet. Its pretty simple that NO man can live a sinless life hence Jesus isn't just a man. If he is just a man, why is he back in heaven now before the resurrection? Muslims need the bible to be "corrupted" and Jesus is a prophet in order to keep their pagans custom. Denying the REDEEMER and continue to pray/kiss the game cube will result in weeping and gnashing of teeths (@Lisa is proud). Lastly, I agreed the bible did foretold about muhammad that he is a false prophet and is weeping and gnashing his teeth at this moment. Keep sending him prayers and peace because that's exactly what he needed badly.
 

Kung Fu

Superstar
Joined
Mar 24, 2017
Messages
5,087
Ok... I'm perhaps not seeing it through Islamic eyes? Which part in particular do you see the allusion to Muhammed in?
In my honest opinion I believe Isaiah 42 to be talking about two different prophets but what I'm concerned with is its verses from 10-17. Isaiah 42 verses 10-17 clearly depicts one prophet and that prophet is Muhammad(pbuh). It describes Muhammad(pbuh) to a T. Let me see if I can break it down and then you tell me if that makes sense to you insha'Allah.

"10 Sing to the Lord a new song,
his praise from the ends of the earth,
you who go down to the sea, and all that is in it,
you islands, and all who live in them."

This new song is the coming of a new prophet with a new way of life(religion) and as you know Islam, like the prophet said, is for all of mankind.

"11 Let the wilderness and its towns raise their voices;
let the settlements where Kedar lives rejoice.
Let the people of Sela sing for joy;
let them shout from the mountaintops."

We know the people of Kedar to be the Arabs and the descendants of Ishmael. When Muhammad(pbuh) revealed the message and it reached all the Arabs they raised their voices and rejoiced in happiness literally. Sela is a mountain in Medina and when the prophet would enter the city the inhabitants of the city would literally sing in joy.

"13 The Lord will march out like a champion,
like a warrior he will stir up his zeal;
with a shout he will raise the battle cry
and will triumph over his enemies."

Muhammad(pbuh) was a warrior and led an army. He triumphed over his enemies and the battle cry of his army was "God is Great".

"17 But those who trust in idols,
who say to images, ‘You are our gods,’
will be turned back in utter shame."

Muhammad(pbuh) rid the Middle East of idolatry. When he entered Mecca all the idolators literally turned and ran in shame and embarrassment.
 

Lisa

Superstar
Joined
Mar 13, 2017
Messages
20,288
Why does a reprobate mind of an ex-catholic/muslim(samething really) think they know more about Jesus Christ than CHRISTians? The whole bible point toward a REDEEMER not just another life manual from a mere prophet. Its pretty simple that NO man can live a sinless life hence Jesus isn't just a man. If he is just a man, why is he back in heaven now before the resurrection? Muslims need the bible to be "corrupted" and Jesus is a prophet in order to keep their pagans custom. Denying the REDEEMER and continue to pray/kiss the game cube will result in weeping and gnashing of teeths (@Lisa is proud). Lastly, I agreed the bible did foretold about muhammad that he is a false prophet and is weeping and gnashing his teeth at this moment. Keep sending him prayers and peace because that's exactly what he needed badly.
I agree with what you say Floss...not just the part about weeping and gnashing of teeth.
However, I don't think anyone is in hell because we haven't got to the white throne judgement yet.
 

Karlysymon

Superstar
Joined
Mar 18, 2017
Messages
6,722
@Kung Fu
You say that, i believe, because of the 2 locations. If removed, does the prophecy still hold? If we take another prophecy about Christ, that lists a geographical spot, even if eliminated, the prophecy still holds. Micah 5:2

‘But you, Bethlehem
Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel,
whose ORIGINS are from of old, from ancient times.’


If the prophet is accorded that much attention in the prophecies, i expect him to remain consistent, message-wise, with his predecessors. Because they all are being sent by the Same Person. 'Elijah' is coming, and 'his' message willnot deviate from all the messengers of old.
 

Kung Fu

Superstar
Joined
Mar 24, 2017
Messages
5,087
@Kung Fu
You say that, i believe, because of the 2 locations. If removed, does the prophecy still hold? If we take another prophecy about Christ, that lists a geographical spot, even if eliminated, the prophecy still holds. Micah 5:2

‘But you, Bethlehem
Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel,
whose ORIGINS are from of old, from ancient times.’


If the prophet is accorded that much attention in the prophecies, i expect him to remain consistent, message-wise, with his predecessors. Because they all are being sent by the Same Person. 'Elijah' is coming, and 'his' message willnot deviate from all the messengers of old.
Of course, it still holds. If it didn't I wouldn't have bothered posting it. There are other verses that point to Muhammad(pbuh) but none more clear than this. Verses 10-17 are so specific in detail when it comes to Muhammad(pbuh) that it can't be denied. These verses tell us of his people, his location, his status, and what he will do. You can't any more clearer than that. The verses are so clear that it simply can't be confused with anyone else. Muhammads(pbuh) was consistent with the other prophets. Like all the prophets before Muhammad(pbuh) the message has always been worship the One God.

It's funny in how clear verses 10-17 are but yet people still deny it. The angel Gabriel could come down himself and tell you what I'm telling you but people would still not believe.
 

Damien50

Star
Joined
Apr 22, 2017
Messages
1,788
@Kung Fu

Mark 12:1-9 KJV
And he began to speak unto them by parables. A certain man planted a vineyard, and set an hedge about it , and digged a place for the winefat, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country. [2] And at the season he sent to the husbandmen a servant, that he might receive from the husbandmen of the fruit of the vineyard. [3] And they caught him , and beat him, and sent him away empty. [4] And again he sent unto them another servant; and at him they cast stones, and wounded him in the head, and sent him away shamefully handled. [5] And again he sent another; and him they killed, and many others; beating some, and killing some. [6] Having yet therefore one son, his wellbeloved, he sent him also last unto them, saying, They will reverence my son. [7] But those husbandmen said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and the inheritance shall be ours. [8] And they took him, and killed him , and cast him out of the vineyard. [9] What shall therefore the lord of the vineyard do? he will come and destroy the husbandmen, and will give the vineyard unto others.

The parable concerns God sending prophets to Israel repeatedly only to have them killed but He sends lastly His son whom the husbandmen(Jews) kill.

There's no mention of a prophet coming after the Son.

Jesus said that He came to fulfil the law and the prophets (Matthew 5:17); thus we expect Him to fulfil Isaiah 42 if, indeed, He was telling the truth. So let’s see if Isaiah 42 if fulfilled in Him (Jesus):

Isaiah 42:1-4,

1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whommy soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles. 2 He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street. 3 A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth.4 He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law.

After Jesus healed a man on a Sabbath Day, the Pharisees conspired to kill Him but knowing what they planned to do to Him; Jesus didn’t confront them but rather simply left. When that happened, Matthew, quoting Isaiah 42:1-4, records:

14 Then the Pharisees went out, and held a council against him, how they might destroy him. 15 Jesus, perceiving that, withdrew from there. Great multitudes followed him; and he healed them all, 16 and commanded them that they should not make him known:17 that it might BE FULFILLED which was spoken through ISAIAH THE PROPHET, saying, 18 “Behold, my servantwhom I have chosen my beloved in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my Spirit on him. He will proclaim justice to the nations. 19 He will not strive, nor shout; neither will anyone hear his voice in the streets. 20 He won’t break a bruised reed. He won’t quench smoking flax, until he leads justice to victory.21 In his name, the nations will hope.” – Matthew 12:14-21

Peter re-echoed this in his epistle,

22 Who (Jesus) did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: 23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again;when he suffered, he threatened not; but committedhimself to him that judgeth righteously – 1Peter 2:22-23

A similar verse as Isaiah 42 is Isaiah 61 which was also fulfilled by Jesus in Luke 4:16-21,

16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and stood up for to read. 17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, 18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. 20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him. 21 And he began to say unto them, this day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears. – Luke 4:16-21


There is no indication in Isaiah that this speaks of two separate prophets coming but only of Christ.
 

Kung Fu

Superstar
Joined
Mar 24, 2017
Messages
5,087
@Kung Fu
There is no indication in Isaiah that this speaks of two separate prophets coming but only of Christ.
That's simply you reading into your biases. The verses that I posted concisely talk about Muhammad(pbuh). There is absolutely no way you can attribute Isaiah 42: 10-17 to Jesus. Let's stick to those verses. If you can show me any other person that fits that description I'll have a listen.

Also, I'm not interested in NT verses.
 

Damien50

Star
Joined
Apr 22, 2017
Messages
1,788
That's simply you reading into your biases. The verses that I posted concisely talk about Muhammad(pbuh). There is absolutely no way you can attribute Isaiah 42: 10-17 to Jesus. Let's stick to those verses. If you can show me any other person that fits that description I'll have a listen.

Also, I'm not interested in NT verses.
I confirmed my biases using scripture with scripture. You attempted to use history but no real scriptural basis which is what mattered to Israel and what matters to a Christian.

I can show you through the whole bible how there was never going to be another prophet after Jesus, how He is the final message unto His second coming.

Quite honestly the below verse sounds like His second coming unless Muhammad did this.

Isaiah 42:15 KJV
I will make waste mountains and hills, and dry up all their herbs; and I will make the rivers islands, and I will dry up the pools.

Look at this verse
Isaiah 42:1 KJV
Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

Isaiah makes clear servant and not multiple either. He is setting up context at the beginning of the chapter. That's why I referenced all those verses. You claim to not believe any of the Bible and that's it's corrupted but in the same breath will attribute seven verses from Isaiah to Muhammad. Scripture generally confirms scripture and I can't really explain it any better so long as you have blinders to maintain your bias.

That is Yahweh speaking through the entire chapter of one servant specifically Jesus. All of these are future events and not everything has played out yet. I don't care if you want to attribute those verses to Muhammad but in doing so you err.
 

Red Sky at Morning

Superstar
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
13,933
There are some profound things in Isaiah 42 to draw out when I have more time.

I looked up Kedar and Sela you are correct on the locations...

Kedar
Dark-skinned, the second son of Ishmael (Genesis 25:13).

It is the name for the nomadic tribes of Arabs, the Bedouins generally (Isaiah 21:16; 42:11; 60:7; Jeremiah 2:10; Ezek. 27:21), who dwelt in the north-west of Arabia. They lived in black hair-tents (Cant. 1:5). To "dwell in the tents of Kedar" was to be cut off from the worship of the true God (Psalm 120:5).

Psalm 120 cross reference...

1{A Song of degrees.} In my distress I cried unto the LORD, and he heard me. 2Deliver my soul, O LORD, from lying lips, and from a deceitful tongue. 3What shall be given unto thee? or what shall be done unto thee, thou false tongue? 4Sharp arrows of the mighty, with coals of juniper. 5Woe is me, that I sojourn in Mesech, that I dwell in the tents of Kedar! 6My soul hath long dwelt with him that hateth peace. 7I am for peace: but when I speak, they are for war.

Sela is another name for Petra. This place may yet be of great significance prophetically. I will reply properly later...
 
Joined
Mar 22, 2017
Messages
3,150
Just so I understand properly, which Bible verses would you interpret as pointing forward to Muhammed as the final messenger?
You wouldn't be able to understand properly though because a - you believe that Jesus is God and b- you don't believe that Muhammad is a Messenger of God. Perhaps you are asking so that you can attempt to refute or prove otherwise? I don't feel like getting into all that here since it has been played out all over the WWW ....
In any case, for me and those like me (a Bible believing Christian who became a Quran following Muslim), those verses from the OT would be any verses that were/are fulfilled with the coming of Muhammad, such as what KF quoted.
 
Top