Why do they hate Aisha?

[manama]

I’m not trying to offend any Musilms here, I’m just trying to give an answer to the question to the best of my knowledge and understanding.

​

Thats good but only when you have actual knowledge and understanding.

 

[Haich]

Shias curse her and celebrate her death. They hate quite a few companions of the prophet (as). It's important not to group all shias together, but when asked about her, some are open about their views and others practice taqiyah so it can be impossible to get a straight answer from them. They believe she led a war against their first 'imam', Ali (ra). I've found that shias take their 'scholars' books and accounts of history as concrete as the Quran. They never ever reject a historical report that promotes shia beliefs, but will always, always twist verses and messages of the Quran that support their ideals.

Their problems are more vast than Aisha (ra). They believe their 12 imams are as holy and great as Prophets of Allah are. Some claim these imams have knowledge of the unseen! Which is just ludicrous since only the Creator has such knowledge. If the prophet (as) doesn't know the final hour, how do these imams know? Again, absolutely no evidence to support such claims. Also, if someone wages a war against their imam(s), one becomes a disbeliever. Every muslim knows it's almost impossible to say someone isn't muslim, it's a grave accusation and without clear cut proof, it shouldn't be uttered. Shias consider Aisha (ra) and the companions as munafiqeen except a few who supported Ali (ra) against Ma'awiyah. The shia faith is based upon hatred and cursing...I think they're a very misguided group of people. They have no evidence for their claims and use vague Quranic verses alluding to khalifas and weak hadiths to support their imama claims.

They're better than the Ahmediyyas though, that's for sure.

 

[Haich]

Aisha (ra) is a prolific reporter of hadiths and is considered the mother of the believers. She has a high status in Islam and it saddens me to think Shias believe the slanderous nonsense written about her.

 

[manama]

They're better than the Ahmediyyas though, that's for sure.

No girl, All Ahmadiyyas do is believe that Ghulam Ahmed was mehdi. These kind of lies are not something they are into. I wholeheartedly believe that the only reason Ahmediyyas are hated so the attention wouldn't go to Shias.

 

[Haich]

No girl, All Ahmadiyyas do is believe that Ghulam Ahmed was mehdi. These kind of lies are not something they are into. I wholeheartedly believe that the only reason Ahmediyyas are hated so the attention wouldn't go to Shias.

Don't they pray to him though? They also have some odd beliefs about Jesus and accept his crucifixion. Anyway, I'm anti-sect myself and believe all these sects originated from political and cultural divisions. All these labels are silly and if one declares himself muslim, that's all that matters.

But come on shias enough with the hate! We're all one!

 

[manama]

Don't they pray to him though? They also have some odd beliefs about Jesus and accept his crucifixion. Anyway, I'm anti-sect myself and believe all these sects originated from political and cultural divisions. All these labels are silly and if one declares himself muslim, that's all that matters.

But come on shias enough with the hate! We're all one!

Its hard to love someone who hates the one you love, you know.

 

[AspiringSoul]

Don't they pray to him though? They also have some odd beliefs about Jesus and accept his crucifixion. Anyway, I'm anti-sect myself and believe all these sects originated from political and cultural divisions. All these labels are silly and if one declares himself muslim, that's all that matters.

But come on shias enough with the hate! We're all one!

I have never heard that they accept the crucifixion but I have heard before that Hussain's death was akin to the sacrificial lamb theme in the Bible but this was meant more in the sense of intercession and bearing the burden of the sins of the many. prophet saw said his death would bring reconciliation.

I know that rumi implied Jesus died...and Al hallaj also when he was being put to death was speaking of Jesus /the crucifixion too.

There is no monopoly on this topic..and the verse 4:157 is open to interpretation.

There is no ijma...there are are just the views of individuals...and even if there was ijma who's to say it is right? I feel my understsnding is larger of this verse but people tell me I'm wrong..
Yet there was a time when it was weak to only have one interpretation...the more interpretations you had the better chance you had of knowing the truth.


Also I think it was Abu bakr Ra...who..nearing the end of his life said that he had finally figured out the meaning of surah fatiha.

What chance does that give the rest of us?

 

[Etagloc]

Shias curse her and celebrate her death. They hate quite a few companions of the prophet (as). It's important not to group all shias together, but when asked about her, some are open about their views and others practice taqiyah so it can be impossible to get a straight answer from them. They believe she led a war against their first 'imam', Ali (ra). I've found that shias take their 'scholars' books and accounts of history as concrete as the Quran. They never ever reject a historical report that promotes shia beliefs, but will always, always twist verses and messages of the Quran that support their ideals.

Their problems are more vast than Aisha (ra). They believe their 12 imams are as holy and great as Prophets of Allah are. Some claim these imams have knowledge of the unseen! Which is just ludicrous since only the Creator has such knowledge. If the prophet (as) doesn't know the final hour, how do these imams know? Again, absolutely no evidence to support such claims. Also, if someone wages a war against their imam(s), one becomes a disbeliever. Every muslim knows it's almost impossible to say someone isn't muslim, it's a grave accusation and without clear cut proof, it shouldn't be uttered. Shias consider Aisha (ra) and the companions as munafiqeen except a few who supported Ali (ra) against Ma'awiyah. The shia faith is based upon hatred and cursing...I think they're a very misguided group of people. They have no evidence for their claims and use vague Quranic verses alluding to khalifas and weak hadiths to support their imama claims.

They're better than the Ahmediyyas though, that's for sure.

How they (the Shia, not the off-topic folks) talk about Aisha (ra) is like a needle in the heart.

I don't understand- what is behind their hatred for the Prophet's (PBUH) wife? What is the point of it?

I feel like the origin of the anti-Aisha hatred must be whispers of Shaytaan.

A Shia tried to talk to me about this weird stuff like imamate and all this Shia terminology... I felt like he wanted to confuse me in a verbal fog so I asked him straight up- "do you believe Aisha is in hell?".

"Yes, I believe she's in hell."

"Do you hate Aisha?"

"Yes, I hate Aisha."

I don't need to know all this convoluted shiaology- that was enough for me. How do they think Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) will feel about them slandering his wife?

I don't get why they can't just disagree with mainstream Muslims without getting into the hatred. And then people paint it like the Shias are the victims- as though they're not the aggressors who attack the Sahaba.

And wow- I didn't know they celebrate her death. That is twisted.

No girl, All Ahmadiyyas do is believe that Ghulam Ahmed was mehdi. These kind of lies are not something they are into. I wholeheartedly believe that the only reason Ahmediyyas are hated so the attention wouldn't go to Shias.

They definitely are non-Muslim from what I understand but at least they don't seem to be about all that hate

"Qadianiyyah is a misguided group, which is not part of Islam at all. Its beliefs are completely contradictory to Islam, so Muslims should beware of their activities, since the ‘Ulama’ (scholars) of Islam have stated that they are Kaafirs."

https://islamqa.info/en/4060

http://thecult.info/blog/2010/07/12/mirza-ghulam-ahmad-was-an-uncle-tom/

 

[Haich]

How they (the Shia, not the off-topic folks) talk about Aisha (ra) is like a needle in the heart.

I don't understand- what is behind their hatred for the Prophet's (PBUH) wife? What is the point of it?

I feel like the origin of the anti-Aisha hatred must be whispers of Shaytaan.

A Shia tried to talk to me about this weird stuff like imamate and all this Shia terminology... I felt like he wanted to confuse me in a verbal fog so I asked him straight up- "do you believe Aisha is in hell?".

"Yes, I believe she's in hell."

"Do you hate Aisha?"

"Yes, I hate Aisha."

I don't need to know all this convoluted shiaology- that was enough for me. How do they think Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) will feel about them slandering his wife?

I don't get why they can't just disagree with mainstream Muslims without getting into the hatred. And then people paint it like the Shias are the victims- as though they're not the aggressors who attack the Sahaba.

And wow- I didn't know they celebrate her death. That is twisted.



They definitely are non-Muslim from what I understand but at least they don't seem to be about all that hate

"Qadianiyyah is a misguided group, which is not part of Islam at all. Its beliefs are completely contradictory to Islam, so Muslims should beware of their activities, since the ‘Ulama’ (scholars) of Islam have stated that they are Kaafirs."

https://islamqa.info/en/4060

http://thecult.info/blog/2010/07/12/mirza-ghulam-ahmad-was-an-uncle-tom/

That brother is from my city. I don't always agree with his delivery but he does have interesting content on his page.

Their faith was founded by a guy called Abdullah Ibn Saba. He was a yemeni jew and claimed Ali was God incarnate and Ali was divine.
A group began to follow him and many were killed but Ibn Saba survived and continued to preach this message. When Ali died, he claimed Ali didn't die and satan faked the death. They believe he'll return to earth . This sect no longer exists but this was a foundation for future shia thought. The whole Ali worship and elevating his status beyond means started with this guy.

I believe the biggest shia sect are the ones who believe in the imamah (the 12 infalliable imams). They live in Iraq, Iran, Lebanon.. etc. They believe the entire creation is under their control and they worship them. I mean, this level of shirk is enough to question the authenticity of ones Islam.

 

[Haich]

I have never heard that they accept the crucifixion but I have heard before that Hussain's death was akin to the sacrificial lamb theme in the Bible but this was meant more in the sense of intercession and bearing the burden of the sins of the many. prophet saw said his death would bring reconciliation.

I know that rumi implied Jesus died...and Al hallaj also when he was being put to death was speaking of Jesus /the crucifixion too.

There is no monopoly on this topic..and the verse 4:157 is open to interpretation.

There is no ijma...there are are just the views of individuals...and even if there was ijma who's to say it is right? I feel my understsnding is larger of this verse but people tell me I'm wrong..
Yet there was a time when it was weak to only have one interpretation...the more interpretations you had the better chance you had of knowing the truth.


Also I think it was Abu bakr Ra...who..nearing the end of his life said that he had finally figured out the meaning of surah fatiha.

What chance does that give the rest of us?

They believe Jesus was on the cross and fled before his death and died in Kashmir. They don't believe he ascended to heaven but accept he was on the cross and harm came to him. That's not the view of mainstream Muslims.

What's your take on verse 4:157?

 

[Etagloc]

That brother is from my city. I don't always agree with his delivery but he does have interesting content on his page.

Their faith was founded by a guy called Abdullah Ibn Saba. He was a yemeni jew and claimed Ali was God incarnate and Ali was divine.
A group began to follow him and many were killed but Ibn Saba survived and continued to preach this message. When Ali died, he claimed Ali didn't die and satan faked the death. They believe he'll return to earth . This sect no longer exists but this was a foundation for future shia thought. The whole Ali worship and elevating his status beyond means started with this guy.

I believe the biggest shia sect are the ones who believe in the imamah (the 12 infalliable imams). They live in Iraq, Iran, Lebanon.. etc. They believe the entire creation is under their control and they worship them. I mean, this level of shirk is enough to question the authenticity of ones Islam.

I actually know a Muslim from that same city.

I was talking to him the other day and.....

the unthinkable happened.

 

[AspiringSoul]

They believe Jesus was on the cross and fled before his death and died in Kashmir. They don't believe he ascended to heaven but accept he was on the cross and harm came to him. That's not the view of mainstream Muslims.

What's your take on verse 4:157?

This is not part of their theology. It is probably an opinion shared with a few of them, but they have a lot of wacky beliefs.
The problem is at some point shias and sufis mixed...because persia used to be sunni/sufi...so some ideas on metaphysics remain due to the farsi language but are totally misapplied by the shias.

I've repeated my perspective many mannnnnny times over before, so i feel numb repeating myself...



So basically the Quran fully 100% endorses the Torah and Injeel, at the time the Quran was revealed. The prophet SAW respected the Torah.....but the translations and interpretations were a matter of doubt. So the prophet SAW said 'don't accept or reject what they say because you might reject something they say and it is actually from Allah or you might accept a thing they say and it is not from Allah' (and in this post im also explaining how muslims have done the very same thing with the Quran).

YET many muslims of our era think 'the Quran explains the previous books so whatever contradicts the Quran, we reject'.
The problem here is we only perceive a contradiction, we don't know if it really is, since we dont know the mythos in scripture and we don't posess hikmah. We don't know whether it s from Allah and Allah's intent behind it either. Read what I have quoted in my sig for example.
Furthermore assuming something in, say...Genesis is contradictory or scientifically false...because Ezra the scribe rewrote it, then Jesus AS would have personally called that out, yet he never did. Instead Allah tells us

(4) And He will teach him the Book and the wisdom and the Taurat and the Injeel.
(سورة آل عمران, Aal-i-Imraan, Chapter #3, Verse #48)

there's no Jesus edition of the Torah.


The Quran also tells us that Allah inspired the disciples of Jesus. It also tells us that He made the believers (of Jesus AS) from bani israel/jews, victorious over the non-believers.
So if you just think this one through, there is no way you can believe this and then think Paul the apostle lied and completely destroyed christianity, esp when you consider that the other apostles were disciples of Jesus.

Actually I read some views online about the shia perspective of the crucifixion. One shia shared my approach ie he pointed out that the apostles of Jesus, they clearly taught the crucifixion/sacrifice view. So if we go against that then we're also going against Allah.

About verse 4:157 it is very important to understand the wider contexts involved and read the entire verse not just a piece of it. So it is not good enough to say "the quran says 'he neither died nor was crucified' and that is what it means" and then follow up by literally writing the swoon theory into the translated version. That is exactly the same as 'writing the Quran with our own hands and saying 'it is from Allah"

"they said in boast" refers to the sadducee's who were responsible for the crucifixion. They believed that when you pass away from this world, you die and that is the end. No resurrection, afterlife etc.
So when Jesus AS came teaching that you have to die to the flesh and be born again in spirit, aswell as the resurrection and hereafter..they rejected all that.

how does that compare to this?
Verse (3:169)
And never think of those who have been killed in the cause of Allah as dead. Rather, they are alive with their Lord, receiving provision,

This is connected with a belief in islam that the real death is in barzakh due to our attachments to the material world. Think about it, if you seek duniya and then duniya is no more, what does that make you? it makes you dead.
If you seek Allah, then you can't die..
and most of us are inbetween the two so in reality we'll suffer in barzakh to the extent of our attachments (you know, the serpent with 99 heads ie our nafs) and then be set free.

in the case of Jesus AS don't only look at him but also the actual apostles inc Paul.....they were ALL martyred. some were crucified, some were stoned, some were hung etc.
Do you think they are dead?

verse 4:157 doesn't jusy say 'neither died nor crucified' but also "or so it was made to APPEAR to them"
again from the sadducee/materialist perspective, they clearly appeared dead.
Yet islam and Jesus AS teach us the same truth concerning life after death.

But Jesus replied, “The hour has come for the Son of Man to be glorified. 24Truly, truly, I tell you, unless a kernel of wheat falls to the ground and dies, it remains only a seed; but if it dies, it bears much fruit. 25Whoever loves his life will lose it, but whoever hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life

this goes further when you read Acts 2

14 Then Peter stood up with the Eleven, raised his voice and addressed the crowd: “Fellow Jews and all of you who live in Jerusalem, let me explain this to you; listen carefully to what I say. 15 These people are not drunk, as you suppose. It’s only nine in the morning! 16 No, this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:

17 “‘In the last days, God says,
I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
your young men will see visions,
your old men will dream dreams.
18 Even on my servants, both men and women,
I will pour out my Spirit in those days,
and they will prophesy.
19 I will show wonders in the heavens above
and signs on the earth below,
blood and fire and billows of smoke.
20 The sun will be turned to darkness
and the moon to blood
before the coming of the great and glorious day of the Lord.
21 And everyone who calls
on the name of the Lord will be saved.’

22 “Fellow Israelites, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know. 23 This man was handed over to you by God’s deliberate plan and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men, put him to death by nailing him to the cross. 24 But God raised him from the dead, freeing him from the agony of death, because it was impossible for death to keep its hold on him. 25 David said about him:
“‘I saw the Lord always before me.
Because he is at my right hand,
I will not be shaken.
26 Therefore my heart is glad and my tongue rejoices;
my body also will rest in hope,
27 because you will not abandon me to the realm of the dead,
you will not let your holy one see decay.
28 You have made known to me the paths of life;
you will fill me with joy in your presence.’

29 “Fellow Israelites, I can tell you confidently that the patriarch David died and was buried, and his tomb is here to this day. 30 But he was a prophet and knew that God had promised him on oath that he would place one of his descendants on his throne. 31 Seeing what was to come, he spoke of the resurrection of the Messiah, that he was not abandoned to the realm of the dead, nor did his body see decay. 32 God has raised this Jesus to life, and we are all witnesses of it.



Btw in the past a number of muslims have responded to my views as above with
"not Quran, not care"
I hope you don't do that because it is madness to think we can understand the Quran without additional information from the bible on certain areas.

in Surah 17 Allah reminds the jews/israelites that He punished them twice, there is some brief info in those verses...yet as a muslim the only way you can really understand those verses better is if you read the bible prophecies and fulfillment of those events...because there is so so much content within those stories/events that directly affects us muslims today. Things we can learn from

for example

5. When the first of the two promises came true, We sent against you servants of Ours, possessing great might, and they ransacked your homes. It was a promise fulfilled.

How would a muslim know what this means without the bible? so the assumption that the Quran explains itself is just madness.
This event was fulfilled by Babylon when they destroyed the first temple, took a lot of jews as slaves to babylon where they were exiled for 70 years.
if you really think about it, what the US and Israel has done to muslims, is not even close to what Babylon did to the jews.
Yet prophet Daniel AS served the king of Babylon and never once disrespected him or tried to kill him but was instead passive in that state. This wasnt due to being weak, he easily had the power/capacity to destroy King Nebuchadnezzar, he could have poisoned him (because he worked in the kitchen).

See the bit where it says "servants of Ours" it's because God 'inspired' their king to invade Judea/jerusalem...even though he was 1000% kafir.
that is a bit like when Bush actually frigging said "God told me 'George, invade iraq'"
it sounds mad.....the only thing I take from this is that prophet Daniel AS was passive for good reason because he understood what had happened was because of the sins of his own nation.
See how suddenly one line from verse 5 quoted above, has so much context when the bible is understood? so I hope you can understand why im actually 'explaining' (more like im trying to understand) verse 4:157 in light of what is in the bible aswell as understanding islamic theology (on the afterlife/barzakh).

Whilst christians talk about Jesus 'dying for their sins', the islamic pov is more in line with what Peter said in Acts 2 of God giving him life and the 'death had no hold on him'.
a man who rejects the world for the sake of Allah, isn't going to die..

this view is far better than a stupid 'swoon theory'.
"so it was made to appear to them" doesn't mean someone was made into the likeness of Jesus. Actually the gnostic texts referred to this 'likeness' as the physical form of Jesus, since the body is made in the liness of the soul...so what the sadducees saw 'dead' was 'only the body'.
their perception of Jesus was limited entirely to the body...
Yet at some point in history muslims (or one muslim) read these gnostic versions, completely misunderstood them and then came up with the stupid swoon theory.
all in all it tells me muslims are some of the dumbest people on earth to allow such poor viewpoints to spread and enter even the translations of the Quran and not even know the context behind it.

 

[AspiringSoul]

I actually know a Muslim from that same city.

I was talking to him the other day and.....

the unthinkable happened.

View attachment 10154

sometimes when I dip the biscuits, they break in the tea and then my whole week is ruined.

 

[TempestOfTempo]

Where is Aisha now? again, I don't hate this little girl.

She died as a grown woman.... as for where she is.... isnt it almost sacrilegious to b asking questions of your fellow humans that we both know only God almighty has the answers to?

 

[EpistemiX]

Floss seems a little unhinged.