Why Do Christians Trust Paul?

billy t

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Paul was known to be a bounty hunter who killed the followers of Jesus then seemingly he seen Jesus on the Damascus road. Both accounts contradict each other. One accounts in Acts claims that his travelling companions seen the light but did not hear any voice. The other account says they heard a voice but did not see the light. How did Paul know is was Jesus? In 2nd Corinthians 11:14, Paul mentions that the devil masquerades as an Angel of Light.

None of the 12 disciples referred to Paul as a disciple. HE said he was a disciple 20 times and his mate Luke said he was a disciple 2 times.

Paul continuously contradicts the teachings of Jesus. Most of the New Testament is based on the letters of Paul who is clearly a liar.
 






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assuming you are, so anyway here's my answer as a muslim

1) Umar killed muslims before his conversion. Yet he was the caliph who conquered Jerusalem. The point behind that is, Umar was zealous and strong, but he lacked the right guidance. There were many muslims like that who despite coming across as extreme, were perceived of as an assett by the prophet SAW because their zealousness helped protect islam.

2)
Acts 9
3 On his journey, as he was nearing Damascus, a light from the sky suddenly flashed around him. 4 He fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?” 5 He said, “Who are you, sir?” The reply came, “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. 6 Now get up and go into the city and you will be told what you must do.” 7 The men who were traveling with him stood speechless, for they heard the voice but could see no one. 8

Acts 22
6 “On that journey as I drew near to Damascus, about noon a great light from the sky suddenly shone around me. 7 I fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to me, ‘Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?’ 8 I replied, ‘Who are you, sir?’ And he said to me, ‘I am Jesus the Nazorean whom you are persecuting.’ 9 My companions saw the light but did not hear the voice of the one who spoke to me.

key issue here, in Acts 22, it is quoting the words of Paul. Acts 9 is not from Paul directy, it is from the author. This can't be used to suggest Paul was a 'liar' given it isnt his contradiction.
not promoting the website, but the explanation here does seem reasonable


3)
There were 12 original disciples, with Matthias replacing Judas. Then there were many others who were classed as disciples through the 12. Paul wasnt a disciple, nor did he claim to be. He was an apostle (a messenger) of Jesus Christ.

4)
Paul mentions that the devil masquerades as an Angel of Light
the christians also use this style of argument against prophet Mohammad.
here's the thing though, im a firm believer that the demons who play the art of deception, cannot do so without revealing themselves in a very clear manner.
They will always do or say something that shows you what they really are. For example in the mormon religion/sect, there's an 'angel' called moroni that claims it was a man in a past life...
that isnt in line with abrahimic theology.

5) this point im about to make is far more important the above 3.

O you who believe! Be you helpers (in the Cause) of Allah as said 'Îsa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), to the Hawariyyun (the disciples): "Who are my helpers (in the Cause) of Allah?" The Hawariyyun (the disciples) said: "We are Allah's helpers" (i.e. we will strive in His Cause!). Then a group of the Children of Israel believed and a group disbelieved. So We gave power to those who believed against their enemies, and they became the victorious (uppermost).
(سورة الصف, As-Saff, Chapter #61, Verse #14)


the conclusion here is that TRUTH won.
If you think Paul blagged it and was highly influenced by iblees, so much so that he directly tricked the original disciples, then you're going against what the Quran says.

"And behold! I inspired the disciples to have faith in Me and Mine Messenger: they said, 'We have faith, and do thou bear witness that we bow to Allah as Muslims'".
(سورة المائدة, Al-Maaida, Chapter #5, Verse #111)


remember Peters vision? which brings me to my final point

6)
Paul continuously contradicts the teachings of Jesus.
you don't understand the theme, it's the 'path of right action' (the OT) vs the 'path of non-action' (the NT).

the path of right-action is about trying to follow rules through effort to attain righteousness.
the path of non-action is about righteosness becoming an inherent quality and right-action coming through naturally without effort.

the whole 'law vs faiths' topic is based on these 2 different paths. You can look at the muslim world today and see that all over, muslims are sinful despite the Quranic law. Despite reading salat 5 times a day, desptie fasting, despite the iman, muslims have fallen under new depths of sin. The same thing occurred with the jews.

One of Paul's points here was that 'the law was not revealed to CONCEAL Sin, but to Reveal the depths of sin'. So for example Adam and Eve were blameless, until the law of the forbidden fruit was given to them.
when prophet Mohammad chose milk over wine, wine was not forbidden to him, yet his inherent righteousness made him choose milk. Muslims have the law, yet many of us drink alcohol, use drugs.

Another name for 'law' is Islam
another name for 'faith' is Ihsan.
Are you familiar with the hadith on the 3 stages of faith? iman, islam and ihsan.

Jesus was preaching Ihsan to Jews, After that, the message was for all gentiles...which led to Paul.
The gentiles were not under the Mosaic law. Yet they were righteous as long as they were 'believers'.
Paul likened the new christians from the gentiles, to the Abrahimic Partiarchs (from Abraham to Joseph). They lived before the law of Moses, yet they were righteous.

In fact the whole argument from Paul detailed in Romans, only lends massive support to islam.
Afterall, if God saw fit to give the israelites the LAW after they were already righteous, then it makes perfect sense that God would give the gentile 'believers' another LAW. Just like the israelites were 'righteous by faith', they lost their belief in Egypt...and hence God gave them the mosaic Law. likewise the gentiles lost their belief in Rome through the trinitarian doctrine.
It makes even more sense that Jesus, who came to 'fulfill the law' would return to fulfill the Quranic law just as he fulfilled the law of Moses.

Paul's teachings only lead to islam, but most people are too blind to understand that.
 






phipps

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We trust all Bible writers not just Paul. The Bible is a Holy Book inspired by and given to us by God through the Holy Spirit. 2 Timothy 3:16-17 says, "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work."

A key biblical passage that clarifies the divine authorship of Scripture is 2 Peter 1:19–21, "And so we have the prophetic word confirmed, which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts; knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit." So the Bible is God's literal Word to His people. Its His own book!

Paul wrote most of the New Testament too and no, none of His teachings contradict the Bible. The whole Bible is in harmony unless it is misinterpreted. That is actually how we know it is inspired of God. No other books on this earth harmonise like the Bible does. It harmonises in minute detail. Paul's writing would not be in the Bible if they contradicted God's Word.

Yes Paul had a terrible past but God changed His heart and he became a Christian, like the very people he persecuted, and he was martyred because he was a Christian. Paul is a good example of how God can change our hearts if we submit to Him. Paul is not the only Bible writer who had a questionable past though. Others did too. Moses, David, Solomon, Matthew, Peter, James etc. In fact all Bible writers were human and had all sinned. They had flaws like we all do. What I like about the Bible is it doesn't hide the character flaws of its patriarchs. Flaws in their character gives hope to all of us. It shows how God can change people's hearts and make them His disciples and many were/are martyred for Him.

God chose qualified men and enabled them to write His Word through the Holy Spirit. He guided their minds on what to write and millions of people are blessed through His Word. God’s word is the living word and will not return to Him void.
 






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Cintra

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Paul was known to be a bounty hunter who killed the followers of Jesus then seemingly he seen Jesus on the Damascus road. Both accounts contradict each other. One accounts in Acts claims that his travelling companions seen the light but did not hear any voice. The other account says they heard a voice but did not see the light. How did Paul know is was Jesus? In 2nd Corinthians 11:14, Paul mentions that the devil masquerades as an Angel of Light.

None of the 12 disciples referred to Paul as a disciple. HE said he was a disciple 20 times and his mate Luke said he was a disciple 2 times.

Paul continuously contradicts the teachings of Jesus. Most of the New Testament is based on the letters of Paul who is clearly a liar.
I always wondered the same.

He never met Jesus. He never heard his teachings, he never witnessed his miracles.
From his letters he seems to know nothing about the life of Jesus.

Paul is all about how Paul thinks christians should behave.
And he is never happy about any of them.

There seem to be significant differences between the jesus of the gospels, and the religion that Paul creates in his name.
 






recure

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The assault on the character of St. Paul is part of the Judaizing heresy and given that the biggest Judaizing religion to come out of Arabia is Islam, it is not surprising that this heresy is constantly slandering the Apostle to the Gentiles. Moreover, St. Paul was someone who repented of his persecutions, traveled the Roman Empire turning pagans to the knowledge of the True God and made himself the target of persecution and was killed for his faith. The lecherous pedophilic prophet of the Muslims on the other hand raided and murdered pagan tribes. This alone makes St. Paul more trustworthy than Muhammad, but on the evidence of the supernatural, again the Muslim criticism falls in the realm of fantasy since they uphold the preposterous belief of Muhammad's revelations as told in the Hadiths: that he was met by an apparition that terrorized him and made him suicidal but because his heretical Christian relatives convinced him it was Gabriel, then Muhammad became a "messenger" following his Judaizing, anti-Christian religion for the spiritually handicapped.
 






floss

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I always wondered the same.

He never met Jesus. He never heard his teachings, he never witnessed his miracles.
From his letters he seems to know nothing about the life of Jesus.

Paul is all about how Paul thinks christians should behave.
And he is never happy about any of them.

There seem to be significant differences between the jesus of the gospels, and the religion that Paul creates in his name.
There are plenty of Testimonies of people (myself included) encountered Jesus and their life and position completely changed. (John Ramirez, Steven Bancarz)
 






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Cintra

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There are plenty of Testimonies of people (myself included) encountered Jesus and their life and position completely changed. (John Ramirez)
Yes, I have known people who have had that happened too.
Glad you found something that was meaningful to you.

At the risk of sounding really sarcastic..
I don't know anyone who has had a similar experience regarding Paul.

Paul's christianity always seemed very different to the teachings of christ in the gospels.
Particularly with regard to women.
I don't think he liked women much. But Jesus did.
 






floss

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Yes, I have known people who have had that happened too.
Glad you found something that was meaningful to you.

At the risk of sounding really sarcastic..
I don't know anyone who has had a similar experience regarding Paul.

Paul's christianity always seemed very different to the teachings of christ in the gospels.
Particularly with regard to women.
I don't think he liked women much. But Jesus did.
I seek for the truth continuously, Jesus found me. I never had the will to encounter Him. I can partially related to Paul as I was once against believer of Christ. I thought they were idiots and brainwashed for control and their money. I used to think only a fool believe you only need Faith for salvation. These Christians must be so gullible as little child in a grown body. I became that little child once I encountered Jesus himself.

I believe God works in a way that goes against our logic because he is beyond logic. For example, we most likely think God would only use good righteous people to do his will. Those evildoer will never get a chance. Well Genesis alone proved that not to be the case as God had used plenty of sinful man to further his plan. Paul is no difference. God showed him mercy and grace while he was an evil man which led to him giving his remaining life to serve Him. Talking about a come back story, Paul deserved more respect.
 






Lurking009

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Paul was known to be a bounty hunter who killed the followers of Jesus then seemingly he seen Jesus on the Damascus road. Both accounts contradict each other. One accounts in Acts claims that his travelling companions seen the light but did not hear any voice. The other account says they heard a voice but did not see the light. How did Paul know is was Jesus? In 2nd Corinthians 11:14, Paul mentions that the devil masquerades as an Angel of Light.

None of the 12 disciples referred to Paul as a disciple. HE said he was a disciple 20 times and his mate Luke said he was a disciple 2 times.

Paul continuously contradicts the teachings of Jesus. Most of the New Testament is based on the letters of Paul who is clearly a liar.
If Christians don't trust Paul, then they can't trust Peter. Peter completely supports Paul:

2 Pet 3:15 Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom God gave him. 16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

If Christians don't trust Paul and Peter, then they can't trust the bible, making their 'faith' completely null and void:

1 Pet 1:23 For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God, 24 For, "All men are like grass, and all their glory is like the flowers of the field; the grass withers and the flowers fall, 25 but the word of the Lord stands forever." And this is the word that was preached to you.

2 Tim 3:14 But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have become convinced of, because you know those from whom you have learned it, 15 and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

Ps 18:30 As for God, His way is perfect; the word of the Lord is flawless.


Christians accept God's word in it's entirety. We don't pick and choose.
 






TokiEl

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We trust God inspired and preserved His and our story... in a big book called the Bible.



Those who pick and reject from His book don't trust God.
 






billy t

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Paul behaved like a politician to get as many converts as he possibly could. He would tell people what they wanted to hear even if it contradicted Jesus.

in 1 corinthian 9:19-22 Paul says, "Though I am free and belong to no one, I have made myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law".

Sounds like a deceitful character to me.

In other words he told those who were devout to Jesus that he followed his laws and those who were not strong in their faith he told them what they wanted to hear such as allowing them to eat meat slaughtered to idols and downplaying sins and emphasizing faith over actions. Paul the politician.

Paul spoke from his own head and there is no evidence he was divinely inspired.

"Now concerning virgins: I have no commandment from the Lord; yet I GIVE MY OWN JUDGEMENT as one whom the Lord in His mercy has made trustworthy".
1: Cor 7.25

In Matthew 5:17 Jesus says, "do not think I came to abolish the law of the Prophets I have not came to abolish them but to fulfill them". Paul on the other hand says, "You are not under law but under grace" (Romans 6:14). He also made lawful what God made unlawful and vice versa. As Allah says in the Qur'aan "they took their rabbis and monks as lords besides Allah. One companion inquired about this to the Messenger salAllahu alaiyhi wasallam and said "we did not worship them". The Prophet salAllahu alaiyhi sallam said "didn't they make lawful what Allah made unlawful and you obeyed them in that and didn't they make unlawful what Allah made lawful and you also obeyed??" The companion said yes and he replied "that was your worship of them".

There are lots of other doubts raised against Islam above so I will answer those later inshaaAllah. For example one poster compared Umar to Paul. The Prophet salAllahu alaiyhi wasallam and other disciples of the Prophet testified to Umars trustworthiness as for Paul then neither Jesus or the other disciples did! False equivalent.
 






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billy t

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assuming you are, so anyway here's my answer as a muslim

1) Umar killed muslims before his conversion. Yet he was the caliph who conquered Jerusalem. The point behind that is, Umar was zealous and strong, but he lacked the right guidance. There were many muslims like that who despite coming across as extreme, were perceived of as an assett by the prophet SAW because their zealousness helped protect islam.

2)
Acts 9
3 On his journey, as he was nearing Damascus, a light from the sky suddenly flashed around him. 4 He fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?” 5 He said, “Who are you, sir?” The reply came, “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. 6 Now get up and go into the city and you will be told what you must do.” 7 The men who were traveling with him stood speechless, for they heard the voice but could see no one. 8

Acts 22
6 “On that journey as I drew near to Damascus, about noon a great light from the sky suddenly shone around me. 7 I fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to me, ‘Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?’ 8 I replied, ‘Who are you, sir?’ And he said to me, ‘I am Jesus the Nazorean whom you are persecuting.’ 9 My companions saw the light but did not hear the voice of the one who spoke to me.

key issue here, in Acts 22, it is quoting the words of Paul. Acts 9 is not from Paul directy, it is from the author. This can't be used to suggest Paul was a 'liar' given it isnt his contradiction.
not promoting the website, but the explanation here does seem reasonable


3)
There were 12 original disciples, with Matthias replacing Judas. Then there were many others who were classed as disciples through the 12. Paul wasnt a disciple, nor did he claim to be. He was an apostle (a messenger) of Jesus Christ.

4)
Paul mentions that the devil masquerades as an Angel of Light
the christians also use this style of argument against prophet Mohammad.
here's the thing though, im a firm believer that the demons who play the art of deception, cannot do so without revealing themselves in a very clear manner.
They will always do or say something that shows you what they really are. For example in the mormon religion/sect, there's an 'angel' called moroni that claims it was a man in a past life...
that isnt in line with abrahimic theology.

5) this point im about to make is far more important the above 3.

O you who believe! Be you helpers (in the Cause) of Allah as said 'Îsa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), to the Hawariyyun (the disciples): "Who are my helpers (in the Cause) of Allah?" The Hawariyyun (the disciples) said: "We are Allah's helpers" (i.e. we will strive in His Cause!). Then a group of the Children of Israel believed and a group disbelieved. So We gave power to those who believed against their enemies, and they became the victorious (uppermost).
(سورة الصف, As-Saff, Chapter #61, Verse #14)


the conclusion here is that TRUTH won.
If you think Paul blagged it and was highly influenced by iblees, so much so that he directly tricked the original disciples, then you're going against what the Quran says.

"And behold! I inspired the disciples to have faith in Me and Mine Messenger: they said, 'We have faith, and do thou bear witness that we bow to Allah as Muslims'".
(سورة المائدة, Al-Maaida, Chapter #5, Verse #111)


remember Peters vision? which brings me to my final point

6)
Paul continuously contradicts the teachings of Jesus.
you don't understand the theme, it's the 'path of right action' (the OT) vs the 'path of non-action' (the NT).

the path of right-action is about trying to follow rules through effort to attain righteousness.
the path of non-action is about righteosness becoming an inherent quality and right-action coming through naturally without effort.

the whole 'law vs faiths' topic is based on these 2 different paths. You can look at the muslim world today and see that all over, muslims are sinful despite the Quranic law. Despite reading salat 5 times a day, desptie fasting, despite the iman, muslims have fallen under new depths of sin. The same thing occurred with the jews.

One of Paul's points here was that 'the law was not revealed to CONCEAL Sin, but to Reveal the depths of sin'. So for example Adam and Eve were blameless, until the law of the forbidden fruit was given to them.
when prophet Mohammad chose milk over wine, wine was not forbidden to him, yet his inherent righteousness made him choose milk. Muslims have the law, yet many of us drink alcohol, use drugs.

Another name for 'law' is Islam
another name for 'faith' is Ihsan.
Are you familiar with the hadith on the 3 stages of faith? iman, islam and ihsan.

Jesus was preaching Ihsan to Jews, After that, the message was for all gentiles...which led to Paul.
The gentiles were not under the Mosaic law. Yet they were righteous as long as they were 'believers'.
Paul likened the new christians from the gentiles, to the Abrahimic Partiarchs (from Abraham to Joseph). They lived before the law of Moses, yet they were righteous.

In fact the whole argument from Paul detailed in Romans, only lends massive support to islam.
Afterall, if God saw fit to give the israelites the LAW after they were already righteous, then it makes perfect sense that God would give the gentile 'believers' another LAW. Just like the israelites were 'righteous by faith', they lost their belief in Egypt...and hence God gave them the mosaic Law. likewise the gentiles lost their belief in Rome through the trinitarian doctrine.
It makes even more sense that Jesus, who came to 'fulfill the law' would return to fulfill the Quranic law just as he fulfilled the law of Moses.

Paul's teachings only lead to islam, but most people are too blind to understand that.
assuming you are, so anyway here's my answer as a muslim

1) Umar killed muslims before his conversion. Yet he was the caliph who conquered Jerusalem. The point behind that is, Umar was zealous and strong, but he lacked the right guidance. There were many muslims like that who despite coming across as extreme, were perceived of as an assett by the prophet SAW because their zealousness helped protect islam.

2)
Acts 9
3 On his journey, as he was nearing Damascus, a light from the sky suddenly flashed around him. 4 He fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?” 5 He said, “Who are you, sir?” The reply came, “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. 6 Now get up and go into the city and you will be told what you must do.” 7 The men who were traveling with him stood speechless, for they heard the voice but could see no one. 8

Acts 22
6 “On that journey as I drew near to Damascus, about noon a great light from the sky suddenly shone around me. 7 I fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to me, ‘Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?’ 8 I replied, ‘Who are you, sir?’ And he said to me, ‘I am Jesus the Nazorean whom you are persecuting.’ 9 My companions saw the light but did not hear the voice of the one who spoke to me.

key issue here, in Acts 22, it is quoting the words of Paul. Acts 9 is not from Paul directy, it is from the author. This can't be used to suggest Paul was a 'liar' given it isnt his contradiction.
not promoting the website, but the explanation here does seem reasonable


3)
There were 12 original disciples, with Matthias replacing Judas. Then there were many others who were classed as disciples through the 12. Paul wasnt a disciple, nor did he claim to be. He was an apostle (a messenger) of Jesus Christ.

4)
Paul mentions that the devil masquerades as an Angel of Light
the christians also use this style of argument against prophet Mohammad.
here's the thing though, im a firm believer that the demons who play the art of deception, cannot do so without revealing themselves in a very clear manner.
They will always do or say something that shows you what they really are. For example in the mormon religion/sect, there's an 'angel' called moroni that claims it was a man in a past life...
that isnt in line with abrahimic theology.

5) this point im about to make is far more important the above 3.

O you who believe! Be you helpers (in the Cause) of Allah as said 'Îsa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), to the Hawariyyun (the disciples): "Who are my helpers (in the Cause) of Allah?" The Hawariyyun (the disciples) said: "We are Allah's helpers" (i.e. we will strive in His Cause!). Then a group of the Children of Israel believed and a group disbelieved. So We gave power to those who believed against their enemies, and they became the victorious (uppermost).
(سورة الصف, As-Saff, Chapter #61, Verse #14)


the conclusion here is that TRUTH won.
If you think Paul blagged it and was highly influenced by iblees, so much so that he directly tricked the original disciples, then you're going against what the Quran says.

"And behold! I inspired the disciples to have faith in Me and Mine Messenger: they said, 'We have faith, and do thou bear witness that we bow to Allah as Muslims'".
(سورة المائدة, Al-Maaida, Chapter #5, Verse #111)


remember Peters vision? which brings me to my final point

6)
Paul continuously contradicts the teachings of Jesus.
you don't understand the theme, it's the 'path of right action' (the OT) vs the 'path of non-action' (the NT).

the path of right-action is about trying to follow rules through effort to attain righteousness.
the path of non-action is about righteosness becoming an inherent quality and right-action coming through naturally without effort.

the whole 'law vs faiths' topic is based on these 2 different paths. You can look at the muslim world today and see that all over, muslims are sinful despite the Quranic law. Despite reading salat 5 times a day, desptie fasting, despite the iman, muslims have fallen under new depths of sin. The same thing occurred with the jews.

One of Paul's points here was that 'the law was not revealed to CONCEAL Sin, but to Reveal the depths of sin'. So for example Adam and Eve were blameless, until the law of the forbidden fruit was given to them.
when prophet Mohammad chose milk over wine, wine was not forbidden to him, yet his inherent righteousness made him choose milk. Muslims have the law, yet many of us drink alcohol, use drugs.

Another name for 'law' is Islam
another name for 'faith' is Ihsan.
Are you familiar with the hadith on the 3 stages of faith? iman, islam and ihsan.

Jesus was preaching Ihsan to Jews, After that, the message was for all gentiles...which led to Paul.
The gentiles were not under the Mosaic law. Yet they were righteous as long as they were 'believers'.
Paul likened the new christians from the gentiles, to the Abrahimic Partiarchs (from Abraham to Joseph). They lived before the law of Moses, yet they were righteous.

In fact the whole argument from Paul detailed in Romans, only lends massive support to islam.
Afterall, if God saw fit to give the israelites the LAW after they were already righteous, then it makes perfect sense that God would give the gentile 'believers' another LAW. Just like the israelites were 'righteous by faith', they lost their belief in Egypt...and hence God gave them the mosaic Law. likewise the gentiles lost their belief in Rome through the trinitarian doctrine.
It makes even more sense that Jesus, who came to 'fulfill the law' would return to fulfill the Quranic law just as he fulfilled the law of Moses.

Paul's teachings only lead to islam, but most people are too blind to understand that.
Point 3 is fair and worthy of consideration yet what is the proof he is an "apostle" besides his own testimony and his mate Luke the physician?

. As for your claim that the Prophet salAllahu alaiyhi wasallam was inspired by a demon or whatever then that is ridiculous. Demons don't inspire people to worship God alone and not associate anyone in worship with him. On top of that, before Muslims recite the Qur'aan we are told to say authu billahi minashaytanir rajeem. "I seek refute with God from the devil". We are also taught to seek refute with God from the evils of the anti-Christ in every prayer.

The verse about the disciples you brought is speaking about the disciples of Jesus who helped him but you have no reliable way of quoting those disciples. Mark, Matthew, Luke and John did not meet Jesus. Those weren't even the names on the gospels they were added latter. "The Gospel according to Mark" so on and so on. How do we know they weren't eye witnesses? Because Matthew and Luke copied much of their gospels from Mark for example. It is basically agreed that they weren't eye witnesses.
 






billy t

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Joined
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Messages
722
If Christians don't trust Paul, then they can't trust Peter. Peter completely supports Paul:

2 Pet 3:15 Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom God gave him. 16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

If Christians don't trust Paul and Peter, then they can't trust the bible, making their 'faith' completely null and void:

1 Pet 1:23 For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God, 24 For, "All men are like grass, and all their glory is like the flowers of the field; the grass withers and the flowers fall, 25 but the word of the Lord stands forever." And this is the word that was preached to you.

2 Tim 3:14 But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have become convinced of, because you know those from whom you have learned it, 15 and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

Ps 18:30 As for God, His way is perfect; the word of the Lord is flawless.


Christians accept God's word in it's entirety. We don't pick and choose.
Yeah, exactly so Christians have to cling onto the teachings of Paul or their whole faith is undermined. They could just accept that the Bible has been corrupted though and accept that the Prophet Muhammad salAllahu alaiyhi wasallam is a true Prophet. Salvation is based on worshipping God alone and accepting ALL of the Prophets. Christians who reject Prophet Muhammad are no different than Jews who rejected Jesus.
 






billy t

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There are plenty of Testimonies of people (myself included) encountered Jesus and their life and position completely changed. (John Ramirez, Steven Bancarz)
They likely encountered a demon who is deceiving them. The devil knows that Christians are destined for the hellfire if they worship Jesus instead of God so they appear in the form of Jesus to deceive them. One of our scholars Ibn Taymiyyah wrote extensively about this topic. Demons also appear to Hindus in the form of their idols. Remember that the pictures of Jesus that are drawn by humans are pictures and idols. Nobody can confirm that this is how Jesus looked so when the demon appears in this form they are just appearing in the form of the idol that Christians worship. Jesus never told anyone to worship him.
 






billy t

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I seek for the truth continuously, Jesus found me. I never had the will to encounter Him. I can partially related to Paul as I was once against believer of Christ. I thought they were idiots and brainwashed for control and their money. I used to think only a fool believe you only need Faith for salvation. These Christians must be so gullible as little child in a grown body. I became that little child once I encountered Jesus himself.

I believe God works in a way that goes against our logic because he is beyond logic. For example, we most likely think God would only use good righteous people to do his will. Those evildoer will never get a chance. Well Genesis alone proved that not to be the case as God had used plenty of sinful man to further his plan. Paul is no difference. God showed him mercy and grace while he was an evil man which led to him giving his remaining life to serve Him. Talking about a come back story, Paul deserved more respect.
I don't deny that people can change. We have many such stories in Islam. Those who are bad people and later become righteous often become some of the most pious people. Allah says that he "takes people out from darkness and into light". Those who were once evildoers know the darkness in detail so they can warn others from it. There was an individual from the time of the Salaf, Fudayl bin iyyaad who used to be a highway robber and then one day when he went to rob someone he overheard them reciting a verse from the Qur'aan that he reflected upon and he became overwhelmed by guilt and repented to God and changed his life. The issue with Paul is that he doesn't appear to have become the good person Christians claim he did but rather he appears to be a person with many bad traits such as deceiving like a politician and contradicting the teachings of Jesus so in this particular case his past IS relevant. Especially when we have no statements from Jesus or the 12 disciples testifying to his trustworthiness! Also if Paul is such an important person and the 4 gospel writers are seemingly inspired by God then should they have not mentioned Paul at least once considering MOST of the New Testament is written by him? Even if he did come later then should they have not at least mentioned something about him? Like they were inspired weren't they? or were they? Furthermore, what is the evidence Paul was divinely inspired? He wrote letters to people. Keyword - letters. They are letters not revelation.
 






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