Why aren't all women feminists?

Maes17

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i agree and this is what im saying, what is femininity? some say its a certain bunch of characteristics that make women women, but im a woman, and i dont fit those criteria, i like who i am but at the same time i dont care if you do subscribe to hyper feminine tropes, i have one friend and shes a complete barbie doll, pink house, pink car.
I just wonder when people say i want to be feminine or feminism ruins femininity, what they mean?
I wonder the same thing.
Labels are labels and define no clear aspect of what.

Often times than not, labels are contradicting in manner.

I think as a species because we are intellect, capable of thought. Society overall just needs labels, etc as a stimuli to stay active.
 

rainerann

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I think labels are a way of identifying patterns. The problem comes when people struggle with more complex patterns, like a collection of labels creates, and then they try to make them opposites or at odds with each other. Good and evil is also a pattern that shows itself. It is real obviously. Murder is evil, but that doesn’t mean that everything becomes polarized when there is more than one of something the way people seem to think.
 
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Exodus73

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Most men haven't a clue how to cook, and as a single man my attempts fall flat every time.
In fact I had to start this thread in a Survival forum under my screenname 'Gamer' to help me try get to grips with the mysteries of cooking but I'm still hopeless-

Can you follow directions? I thought the same towards cooking when I was younger man,but now I kill it.Or try grilling it's very therapeutic I think.
 

Pepsi

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But what is femininity? Am I not a real woman because I hate pink, dresses, I never wear make up, hate cooking and baking, I'm not maternal, don't have or ever want children, I like cars, dinosaurs, and I'm always wearing pants/trousers. Baggy t shirts and hate with a passion clothes that feature glitter, hearts, birds and butterflies, and my pet hate is glitter. I don't want to be a wife and mother I want a career and to travel, that's it.
i don't know how you think femininity is only restricted to these things. that's what has been fed to us so that we THINK that's what femininity looks like, enforcing colors and gender roles on us, or programming. the femininity i described was being content in the fact that there are some things i can do that most men can't and some things i can't do that most men can. it's to be free of penis envy and acknowledge that i can't have my cake and eat it too, but also realise that it doesn't mean women can be treated as doormats for it.
 

Tidal

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Can you follow directions? I thought the same towards cooking when I was younger man,but now I kill it.Or try grilling it's very therapeutic I think.

Ah, but the directions on food packets can be very confusing, so can my cooker instructions.
For example there's a cooker option to use fan-assisted cooking, so what should I do, use the fan or just let the food cook normally without the fan?
 

morita

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A lot of women reject the label "feminist" because they know they will be treated badly if they stand up to men.
Who are the women that are treated better within the system?? Women who marry men and choose to dedicated their lives to men, women who are willing to serve as bredding stocks, and as rabid attack dogs for men.
Why do we as a culture shame women who are unmarried after a certain age? Because we want them to fall in line and it's also a way to tell younger women "you'll be ostracized too if you do the same".
Lets be real, most men are manchildren who can't take care of themselves, they wouldn't be able to survive without a woman who can be their cook, clean after them, be their second mommy -to fuck. Hence the whole propaganda that unmarried women are failing at life.

Btw, women who dedicate ther lives to raising kids, what happens after these kids leave the house and go do their own thing?
A lot of older women resent the fact that they didn't nurture a career, hobbies or anything outside their marriage and they end up writing articles like the one I saw on washington post "I'm no longer Jo from little women".
 
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Cintra

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A lot of women reject the label "feminist" because they know they will be treated badly if they stand up to men.
Who are the women that are treated better within the system?? Women who marry men and choose to dedicated their lives to men, women who are willing to serve as bredding stocks, and as rabid attack dogs for men.
Why do we as a culture shame women who are unmarried after a certain age? Because we want them to fall in line and it's also a way to tell younger women "you'll be ostracized too if you do the same".
Lets be real, most men are manchildren who can't take care of themselves, they wouldn't be able to survive without a woman who can be their cook, clean after them, be their second mommy -to fuck. Hence the whole propaganda that unmarried women are failing at life.

Btw, women who dedicate ther lives to raising kids, what happens after these kids leave the house and go do their own thing?
A lot of older women resent the fact that they didn't nurture a career, hobbies or anything outside their marriage and they end up writing articles like the one I saw on washington post "I'm no longer Jo from little women". Imma just let yall read it and see how ridiculous it is.
women hating man hating
everyone hating
 

Aero

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A lot of women reject the label "feminist" because they know they will be treated badly if they stand up to men.
Who are the women that are treated better within the system?? Women who marry men and choose to dedicated their lives to men, women who are willing to serve as bredding stocks, and as rabid attack dogs for men.
Why do we as a culture shame women who are unmarried after a certain age? Because we want them to fall in line and it's also a way to tell younger women "you'll be ostracized too if you do the same".
Lets be real, most men are manchildren who can't take care of themselves, they wouldn't be able to survive without a woman who can be their cook, clean after them, be their second mommy -to fuck. Hence the whole propaganda that unmarried women are failing at life.

Btw, women who dedicate ther lives to raising kids, what happens after these kids leave the house and go do their own thing?
A lot of older women resent the fact that they didn't nurture a career, hobbies or anything outside their marriage and they end up writing articles like the one I saw on washington post "I'm no longer Jo from little women". Imma just let yall read it and see how ridiculous it is.
Girls learn at a young age that if they play nice with men, life is a lot easier. At least, that's what I noticed growing up. Girls don't stand up for themselves; in fact, the go to move asks a man for help. Even if it's a problem, they can easily solve themselves by just saying no.

Idk if "attack dogs" for men is the best way to describe women who climbed the latter. If they were attack dogs, the men would fight *with* them. But that doesn't seem to happen. It's more like men use women as a shield, and then they hide behind them. So the woman takes all the hits, even potentially deadly ones, and the men can walk away.

If all dudes are manchildren, it's because our parents literally taught us nothing. That's what my childhood was like. I don't remember one in-depth conversation with either of my parents. They never told me what I should be doing, they only occasionally told me not to do something. I would say most of us growing up were either getting yelled at, or ignored.

I read the article. It was bleedingly boring like most things in my life. And the advice I would give to that author is, it's never too late to do more. Change for yourself, not for other people.
 

morita

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If all dudes are manchildren, it's because our parents literally taught us nothing. That's what my childhood was like. I don't remember one in-depth conversation with either of my parents. They never told me what I should be doing, they only occasionally told me not to do something. I would say most of us growing up were either getting yelled at, or ignored.
Growing up, I just had to do housework because I couldn't just lay around, playing video games like my brother did. Women and girls can't just take up space and be validated for no reason the same way that men are.

I read the article. It was bleedingly boring like most things in my life. And the advice I would give to that author is, it's never too late to do more. Change for yourself, not for other people.
Women in the western world have the choice not to go the traditional route of marriage and kids but they still make the choice to get married and have kids, then complain that their life is boring lol. Truth be told, I rarely see married women who aren't overworked and miserable; but I figure if women still disproportionnately make the choice to get married it's because they have something to gain out of it. If it's not money that they get out of it, it's social capital. That's why I don't understand what this woman who wrote the article is complaining about. Married women are treated better and even more so if they have kids. Everyone is trained to be deferential to mothers. (If you're a single and childfree woman after a certain age, you're failing at womanhood. Shame on you!). In short, marriage and prostitution are two sides of the same coin. Women always climb the social ladder through marriage. Both prostitutes and wives sell their bodies, the major difference is that married women pretend to be respectable while doing so. And a prostitute's career ends when she's no longer "fuckable" according to men's standards (they say women hit the wall at 30), while married women can still cling even tighter to their rESpeCtaBIliTy as they age.
Bezos' ex wife is a good exemple of a woman who played the system to her advantage, she's got the career, the rich ex husband whose money she's benefitting off of. She's set up for life.
 

Aero

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Growing up, I just had to do housework because I couldn't just lay around, playing video games like my brother did. Women and girls can't just take up space and be validated for no reason the same way that men are.
I had to get a job at 17. But you're pretty much right. Men seem to make it capping easily. We drop a few lines, and we are practically on "The Truman Show". The difference is in real life most of us men are lazy degenerates, yet everyone still has to know what we are doing.

It's like what do people think men are doing?? They're playing video games, they are watching porn. Maybe they are doing drunken karate at home or negging some girls at the bar. There's no mystery there.

Women in the western world have the choice not to go the traditional route of marriage and kids but they still make the choice to get married and have kids, then complain that their life is boring lol. Truth be told, I rarely see married women who aren't overworked and miserable; but I figure if women still disproportionnately make the choice to get married it's because they have something to gain out of it. If it's not money that they get out of it, it's social capital. That's why I don't understand what this woman who wrote the article is complaining about. Married women are treated better and even more so if they have kids. Everyone is trained to be deferential to mothers. (If you're a single and childfree woman after a certain age, you're failing at womanhood. Shame on you!). In short, marriage and prostitution are two sides of the same coin. Women always climb the social ladder through marriage. Both prostitutes and wives sell their bodies, the major difference is that married women pretend to be respectable while doing so. And a prostitute's career ends when she's no longer "fuckable" according to men's standards (they say women hit the wall at 30), while married women can still cling even tighter to their rESpeCtaBIliTy as they age.
Bezos' ex wife is a good exemple of a woman who played the system to her advantage, she's got the career, the rich ex husband whose money she's benefitting off of. She's set up for life.
Social capital feels so unfulfilling to me. So I think I can imagine what some married mothers might experience. Keeping up appearances was always boring; it's just more boring when you get older. The shame train doesn't end until they have pushed everyone away.

Marriage life may be more stable, at least on the surface. But yeah, it's pretty much a sea of resentment. People think I should be depressed about not having kids and a wife. It's like, are you kidding me? I can't think of anything worse than if I was married with children and selling insurance somewhere. Remembering the "glory" days of high school when people were still allowed to have fun.

Jeff Bezos is a glorified sugar daddy. Play or get played is the name of the game.
 

Cintra

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Growing up, I just had to do housework because I couldn't just lay around, playing video games like my brother did. Women and girls can't just take up space and be validated for no reason the same way that men are.


Women in the western world have the choice not to go the traditional route of marriage and kids but they still make the choice to get married and have kids, then complain that their life is boring lol. Truth be told, I rarely see married women who aren't overworked and miserable; but I figure if women still disproportionnately make the choice to get married it's because they have something to gain out of it. If it's not money that they get out of it, it's social capital. That's why I don't understand what this woman who wrote the article is complaining about. Married women are treated better and even more so if they have kids. Everyone is trained to be deferential to mothers. (If you're a single and childfree woman after a certain age, you're failing at womanhood. Shame on you!). In short, marriage and prostitution are two sides of the same coin. Women always climb the social ladder through marriage. Both prostitutes and wives sell their bodies, the major difference is that married women pretend to be respectable while doing so. And a prostitute's career ends when she's no longer "fuckable" according to men's standards (they say women hit the wall at 30), while married women can still cling even tighter to their rESpeCtaBIliTy as they age.
Bezos' ex wife is a good exemple of a woman who played the system to her advantage, she's got the career, the rich ex husband whose money she's benefitting off of. She's set up for life.
Have you ever had a relationship, and are speaking from experience?
Or are you just believing the crap other people say about theirs, and looking at their relationships from the outside and making ill informed judgements?

No one knows what goes on in a relationship except the people involved.

One day you might get together with somone you really love.
And them you will probably spend years telling everyone what a twat they are, whilst still loving them to death.

Its a sort of female pissing contest.
Like childbirth.
And if you have ever seen women out bidding each other on giving birth horror stories, you will know what i mean.

Is Jeff Bezos asking you out?
Otherwise what the super rich do is shit all to do with rl.
 

justjess

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I had to get a job at 17. But you're pretty much right. Men seem to make it capping easily. We drop a few lines, and we are practically on "The Truman Show". The difference is in real life most of us men are lazy degenerates, yet everyone still has to know what we are doing.

It's like what do people think men are doing?? They're playing video games, they are watching porn. Maybe they are doing drunken karate at home or negging some girls at the bar. There's no mystery there.


Social capital feels so unfulfilling to me. So I think I can imagine what some married mothers might experience. Keeping up appearances was always boring; it's just more boring when you get older. The shame train doesn't end until they have pushed everyone away.

Marriage life may be more stable, at least on the surface. But yeah, it's pretty much a sea of resentment. People think I should be depressed about not having kids and a wife. It's like, are you kidding me? I can't think of anything worse than if I was married with children and selling insurance somewhere. Remembering the "glory" days of high school when people were still allowed to have fun.

Jeff Bezos is a glorified sugar daddy. Play or get played is the name of the game.
I think some of you get your opinions on married life from some very sketchy sources tbh.

also married women don’t ALL or even mostly give up everything in service of their marriage. This isn’t 1950.
 

Aero

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I think some of you get your opinions on married life from some very sketchy sources tbh.

also married women don’t ALL or even mostly give up everything in service of their marriage. This isn’t 1950.
Perhaps.

I'm just making observations. You may have noticed I talked about malice a little bit yesterday. Malice is the reason I believe what I believe about married life. I'm not trying to generalize or anything, but there's a clear pattern happening here.

Most of the malice in America is coming from the middle-aged married crowd. Put simply, their malice is everywhere. So much so I've given it a name, I call it "creeping crud". Where you literally have to shower in bleach just to get their nastiness off of you.

So let's just call a spade a spade. People with that type of malice aren't jumping on the bandwagon, they are just downright and painfully miserable with themselves.
 

justjess

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Perhaps.

I'm just making observations. You may have noticed I talked about malice a little bit yesterday. Malice is the reason I believe what I believe about married life. I'm not trying to generalize or anything, but there's a clear pattern happening here.

Most of the malice in America is coming from the middle-aged married crowd. Put simply, their malice is everywhere. So much so I've given it a name, I call it "creeping crud". Where you literally have to shower in bleach just to get their nastiness off of you.

So let's just call a spade a spade. People with that type of malice aren't jumping on the bandwagon, they are just downright and painfully miserable with themselves.
I did not see your post about malice so I’m not sure what you are talking about but I will say this...

A miserable person will be miserable no matter if they are married or not. They may blame their marital status - I’ve seen some blame being married and I’ve seen some blame being single. Marital status is not the crux of the situation in most cases though. Also correlation does not equal causation - the middle aged people you are speaking of may be married but they are also middle aged so what’s to say that the correlation of interest isn’t their age rather then their relationship status? You get to a certain age and look around and life isn’t what you thought it was going to be or was supposed to be and you get bitter - that’s what I’ve observed. And yes, marital dissatisfaction can be a part of that but it seems to me more like economic dissatisfaction is the overarching commonality - they thought by that age they’d have a successful career, and a home with a white picket fence and be able to go on vacations twice a year. They have none of that. Some blame women - or more specifically feminism. Some blame immigrants. Some blame corporations. Some women blame men for not living up. Some women blame immigrants etc etc.

everyones always blaming someone else. That’s the common thread.

I’m married with kids. That isn’t my whole life. I’m in school, I have a career. I have hobbies. I have outside relationships with friends and family etc etc. this cartoon stereotype about married women is inaccurate and just another way to blame someone for your own personal misery other then yourself.
 

Aero

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A miserable person will be miserable no matter if they are married or not. They may blame their marital status - I’ve seen some blame being married and I’ve seen some blame being single. Marital status is not the crux of the situation in most cases though. Also correlation does not equal causation - the middle aged people you are speaking of may be married but they are also middle aged so what’s to say that the correlation of interest isn’t their age rather then their relationship status? You get to a certain age and look around and life isn’t what you thought it was going to be or was supposed to be and you get bitter - that’s what I’ve observed. And yes, marital dissatisfaction can be a part of that but it seems to me more like economic dissatisfaction is the overarching commonality - they thought by that age they’d have a successful career, and a home with a white picket fence and be able to go on vacations twice a year. They have none of that. Some blame women - or more specifically feminism. Some blame immigrants. Some blame corporations. Some women blame men for not living up. Some women blame immigrants etc etc.
I suppose I'll buy most of that argument.

I would only counter and say the miserable single people don't have the social capital the married ones do. So sure, some of them are equally as miserable and full of malice, but most don't have the status to do much with it. Let me put it like this, a single dude could shit on your front doorstep just the same as anyone else. But the married dude with social capital is going to try to get everyone he knows to shit on your front doorstep. What's worse? The answer seems pretty obvious to me.

everyones always blaming someone else. That’s the common thread.

I’m married with kids. That isn’t my whole life. I’m in school, I have a career. I have hobbies. I have outside relationships with friends and family etc etc. this cartoon stereotype about married women is inaccurate and just another way to blame someone for your own personal misery other then yourself.
I think it's unfortunate that's what your takeaway of this discussion is. But that's probably my fault for not putting the best words down. I'm not trying to turn anyone into memes, I don't do that shit. When someone shits on your doorstep, there is someone to blame, though. It doesn't make me feel better blaming them, they are just guilty.
 

justjess

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I suppose I'll buy most of that argument.

I would only counter and say the miserable single people don't have the social capital the married ones do. So sure, some of them are equally as miserable and full of malice, but most don't have the status to do much with it. Let me put it like this, a single dude could shit on your front doorstep just the same as anyone else. But the married dude with social capital is going to try to get everyone he knows to shit on your front doorstep. What's worse? The answer seems pretty obvious to me.



I think it's unfortunate that's what your takeaway of this discussion is. But that's probably my fault for not putting the best words down. I'm not trying to turn anyone into memes, I don't do that shit. When someone shits on your doorstep, there is someone to blame, though. It doesn't make me feel better blaming them, they are just guilty.
It wasn’t really my takeaway from you. Just my overarching takeaway which probably has more to do with the other person in the conversation. I’m a bit sick of seeing people blaming everyone else for their own shit tbh. I don’t see how married people are shitting on anyone’s doorstep either. I don’t think it really gets you much more social capital in the year 2021 and even if it did I don’t see how that would be shitting on anyone else.

I didn’t get married for social capital or financial capital. I got married because I love my husband. And because legally there were certain benefits accrued to married people that weren’t accrued to unmarried people who just love eachother - health insurance, prison visitation rights (this was clearly a personal concern that doesn’t apply to many other people), inheritance rights etc. We eloped so it isn’t like a big fancy wedding was a consideration. Similarity I didn’t have kids for social capital - I had kids cuz I got pregnant. I didn’t want to get married or have kids - I wanted to be a high powered lawyer in NYC and live in an apartment decorated with pink. Having kids and being married doesn’t contribute to that goal in any way. You readjust. I’m pretty sure I’d have had more social capital with my original plans then I do now. Life isn’t about social capital though. If anything marrying someone from a lower social class with a criminal history has COMPLICATED my own social capital issues. People don’t make life decisions based on shit like this unless they are like billionaires and “expected” to do certain things. That isn’t the vast majority of the population.
 

Aero

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It wasn’t really my takeaway from you. Just my overarching takeaway which probably has more to do with the other person in the conversation. I’m a bit sick of seeing people blaming everyone else for their own shit tbh. I don’t see how married people are shitting on anyone’s doorstep either. I don’t think it really gets you much more social capital in the year 2021 and even if it did I don’t see how that would be shitting on anyone else.
Gotcha.

Let me add some more perspective for you. I know you know that white people can pretty much call the cops on any minority and the cops will at least automatically believe the white person first. It's the same principle with social capital vs non-social capital. In essence, a married person with a career has more automatic credibility granted to them. More importantly, they can use that credibility to not only harass you with cops, but also try to deny you promotions, goods, and services. It happens every day.

I didn’t get married for social capital or financial capital. I got married because I love my husband. And because legally there were certain benefits accrued to married people that weren’t accrued to unmarried people who just love eachother - health insurance, prison visitation rights (this was clearly a personal concern that doesn’t apply to many other people), inheritance rights etc. We eloped so it isn’t like a big fancy wedding was a consideration. Similarity I didn’t have kids for social capital - I had kids cuz I got pregnant. I didn’t want to get married or have kids - I wanted to be a high powered lawyer in NYC and live in an apartment decorated with pink. Having kids and being married doesn’t contribute to that goal in any way. You readjust. I’m pretty sure I’d have had more social capital with my original plans then I do now. Life isn’t about social capital though. If anything marrying someone from a lower social class with a criminal history has COMPLICATED my own social capital issues. People don’t make life decisions based on shit like this unless they are like billionaires and “expected” to do certain things. That isn’t the vast majority of the population.
I believe you got married for the right reasons. I don't think less of married people or anything. My personal choice isn't about rejecting social capital. It's mostly about rejecting the wrong women. But it's not them; it's me. I'm like, next-level hyper. So being with someone who can't react well to that is just all bad news.

Lastly, I would add that the majority of the population isn't driving modern culture. So in that vein, you are right, that the majority of the population isn't obsessing over social capital. It's just the loudest, most influential type of people who do that.
 

justjess

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I think all of that would very much depend on what “world” you are trying to inhabit. I’ve never seen a woman denied a promotion, goods or services for not being married and having kids. I’ve seen the opposite actually - oh she’s married with kids so must not take her career as seriously as others and said woman is then passed over. I don’t know what it’s like for men because I’m not one and it hasn’t been a consideration in my own husbands life and my son is too young for all that. But I don’t consider people’s marital status or whether they have children in my own business decisions - I consider whether they have the skills needed, can work independently, and are motivated to succeed. That’s pretty much it. Sometimes having a wife and kids is actually a negative - the wife that complains if they have to work late, the kids they need to leave early for or whatever. But honestly it’s not much of a consideration at all. I’d love to hear some examples of this because it is possible I’m just not seeing it and this is actually a thing.

Do people really use credibility due to being married to harass people with cops? I’ve literally never seen this or heard of it. Same as above.. would love to hear some examples.
 
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