Why aren't all women feminists?

justjess

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That's first wave. Waves after that shunned for not choosing the "right" choice.
Or your just listening to the loudest voices. Ive taken woman’s studies courses and follow feminist publications. I’m one of the only people on this site that’s ever called themselves a feminist. You misrepresent the entire ideology when you focus on one small fringe but very loud voice within it.
 






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I would say the bulk of self proclaimed feminists choose an outside the home career, over a more domesticated, life path.
Its the MONEY/respect/notoreity that is the motivating factor...
Don't get me wrong, I "get it".
If a woman can earn as much, if not more than her husband, why wouldn't she also work?
Whomever brings home the bacon has the advantage over the non-earning, or lesser earning, partner.
I mean, same could be said about the less intelligent of the two.
"He" who has the green, and the mind to mend/mine it, maintains the power in the relationship.
But besides these glaringly apparent facts, I think beyond the actual monetary input, one has to come to a crossroads in their life and think to themselves what do they truly value? Is it money? Power? Love? Respect? Happiness? Freedom? Security? Peace?
Its an unfortunate pattern of the modern times that not more people choose love or peace, over money/power.
This comment is not directed at anyone at all, just an opinion.
I respect ALL, so long as they respect me, too. :)
 






justjess

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I would say the bulk of self proclaimed feminists choose an outside the home career, over a more domesticated, life path.
Its the MONEY that is the motivating factor...
Don't get me wrong, I "get it".
If a woman can earn as much, if not more than her husband, why wouldn't she also work?
Whomever brings home the bacon has the advantage over the non-earning, or lesser earning, partner.
I mean, same could be said about the less intelligent of the two.
"He" who has the green, and the mind to mend it, maintains the power in the relationship.
But besides these glaringly apparent facts, I think beyond the actual monetary input, one has to come to a crossroads in their life and think to themselves what do they truly value? Is it money? Power? Love? Respect? Happiness? Freedom? Security? Peace?
Its an unfortunate pattern of the modern times that not more people choose love or peace, over money/power.
This comment is not directed at anyone at all, just an opinion.
I respect ALL, so long as they respect me, too. :)
If you think it’s about money then your missing the point.. even women who don’t need the money may and often do choose to work anyway for numerous reasons other then money.
 






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Or your just listening to the loudest voices. Ive taken woman’s studies courses and follow feminist publications. I’m one of the only people on this site that’s ever called themselves a feminist. You misrepresent the entire ideology when you focus on one small fringe but very loud voice within it.
The actual bulk of feminist literature is not fringe
Right... says the anti feminist man to the feminist woman. Are you seriously trying to mansplain feminism to me? Hahahaha


A quick google search will bring up thousands more like it. It isn’t a platitude whatsoever. It’s about choice, for one. On top of that if feminists didn’t think being a stay at home mom/wife was valuable they wouldn’t have spent years arguing about unpaid domestic labor and emotional labor and pushing for recognition in the home sphere as well. If all you choose to focus on is radical feminists of a certain ilk, and then take their arguments out of context to boot.. then that’s a you problem, yet again. A common issue on this forum it seems.
Im not anti feminist, i love femininity, and I hate that modern lesbians etc in universities work to destroy it with their false theories
 






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@justjess
Edited my comment before seeing yours.
I know they do it for reasons besides money.
I added that.
And also "get it".
No offense to anyone for what their life choice/vocation.
Just wish more people respected ALL work. Even that of the unseen/unsung/unpaid, folk.

ETA: maybe the big issue with people these days is not only lack of money/resources but also the desperate need for one to "prove" their worth to the world?
Like if nobody's seeing your work...does it not have value? Does it not matter? Why the desperation to prove yourself and "fit in"?

Look at ME!

I'm Allllllliiiiiivvvvveeee! Lol!!
 






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justjess

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The actual bulk of feminist literature is not fringe

Im not anti feminist, i love femininity, and I hate that modern lesbians etc in universities work to destroy it with their false theories
Why don’t you post some sources so that I can evaluate whether they are mainstream or not? Because the only people I’ve ever heard say that in the context your putting it are radical feminists. And since it is your claim, the burden of proof lies with you.
 






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Or your just listening to the loudest voices. Ive taken woman’s studies courses and follow feminist publications. I’m one of the only people on this site that’s ever called themselves a feminist. You misrepresent the entire ideology when you focus on one small fringe but very loud voice within it.
Just speaking from lived experience. My wife was beaten with the feminist stick by other women for not aborting at a young age. For them, they only accepted one choice. You are first wave and I applaud it. But you (and others) are the exception, not the rule.
 






justjess

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@justjess
Edited my comment before seeing yours.
I know they do it for reasons besides money.
I added that.
And also "get it".
No offense to anyone for what their life choice/vocation.
Just wish more people respected ALL work. Even that of the unseen/unsung/unpaid folk.

ETA: maybe the big issue with people these days is not only lack of money/resources but also the desperate need for one to "prove" their worth to the world?
Like if nobody's seeing your work...does it not have value? Does it not matter? Why the desperation to prove yourself and "fit in"?

I'm Allllllliiiiiivvvvveeee! Lol!!
Again... that isn’t the point. Before women were able to enter the workforce if their male benefactor (father or husband usually) died or left or became unable to work for whatever reason those same women were left destitute and with no options. I continue to work at this point so that I have a foot in the door in case that ever happens to me in the future. I’ve seen way too many women be left in that situation and I know the statistics even if I didn’t know people personally.
 






justjess

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Just speaking from lived experience. My wife was beaten with the feminist stick by other women for not aborting at a young age. For them, they only accepted one choice. You are first wave and I applaud it. But you (and others) are the exception, not the rule.
And I was beaten with the feminist stick for not agreeing that trans women are the same as born women. Horrible people are horrible people. The ideology itself isn’t the problem and quite frankly these opinions are not representative of the majority. If they were I’d say look into the problem further atleast.. but that hasn’t been my experience with actual feminists
 






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@justjess I totally get that.
And as sucky as it is, that's also an unfortunate "dirty truth" that gets swept under the rug, too often...
 






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justjess

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Nah, that was the trans stick. And I agree, identifying is not the same as living.
The trans stick and the feminist stick have become very intertwined over the last couple years tbh. I ducked out on interacting with feminists when that insanity started catching on. But I still read through the publications and such. If they didn’t honor stay at home moms/wives they wouldn’t harp on about unpaid domestic labor and insist that it be honored. Or emotional labor etc. which a quick google search would show you they do all the time. I can’t relate to your wife because no one gave me shit about having my son at a young age. I did stay in college and continue pursuing a career anyway so maybe that’s why but I didn’t feel pressured in the least to have an abortion nor did I feel like I was a traitor to feminism for not doing so. And this is when I was in school and actively taking women’s studies courses. So idk.
 






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Why don’t you post some sources so that I can evaluate whether they are mainstream or not? Because the only people I’ve ever heard say that in the context your putting it are radical feminists. And since it is your claim, the burden of proof lies with you.
You know what I’m talking about. No need to play dumb. Read ishigo and moritas posts for starters
 






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Disclaimer: Just some thoughts.
The trans stick and the feminist stick have become very intertwined over the last couple years tbh. I ducked out on interacting with feminists when that insanity started catching on
As you should have. The two are very different.
If they didn’t honor stay at home moms/wives they wouldn’t harp on about unpaid domestic labor and insist that it be honored. Or emotional labor etc
I haven't seen them say shit about unpaid physical labor (mowing, fixing, trash duty, etc.).
I did stay in college and continue pursuing a career anyway so maybe that’s why
BINGO. You made the "right" choice.
I didn’t feel pressured in the least to have an abortion
I'm happy for you on that.
nor did I feel like I was a traitor to feminism for not doing so
Nor should you have.
 






justjess

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Disclaimer: Just some thoughts.

As you should have. The two are very different.

I haven't seen them say shit about unpaid physical labor (mowing, fixing, trash duty, etc.).

BINGO. You made the "right" choice.

I'm happy for you on that.

Nor should you have.
I made the only choice I could. Someone had to support that child.

As far as unpaid physical labor..I will refer to my statement above regarding the reason why some women choose to work regardless of finances - prior to their ability to work if their male benefactor died they were left destitute with no options to provide for themselves. This is where unpaid domestic labor comes in... that was a woman’s only approved work domain in the past; and at this point when women choose for it to be their only work domain it leaves them with the same issue in the event of tragedy that our forebears has because domestic labor is not recognized as work.

You can not collect disability or retirement benefits on your own record if you choose to stay home or do so out of necessity. After a certain amount of years out of the workforce it is near impossible to get back in, especially to a position with sustainable wages. By not entering the workforce at all to take care of the domestic front women are leaving themselves at substantial financial risk. If domestic labor was recognized in some way as work then it would free up more women to choose not to enter the workforce or to leave the workforce when their children were young etc. This applies to stay at home dads equally as much it’s just a more rare occurance.

While I’m sure your wife appreciates the physical labor you put into your home (I surely appreciate everything my husband does) doing those things is not at the expense of earning a living OUTSIDE the home and does not have the same effect on your overall lifetime ability to provide for yourself and your financial security. In a few words, it’s different.

I will give you the personal tip on this: I’ve been arguing with my husband for weeks about my insurance on keeping my day job. Even at reduced hours. He wants me home. And I understand his position and agree on many fronts that it makes the most sense. The business is very busy and we need someone who can full time manage it.
I don’t make enough at my job to justify paying someone else something I could be doing myself. On top of that preschools aren’t taking admissions because of covid so we have massive childcare issues right now and it would be better if I could be home with my daughter... but still I’m refusing and compromised to reduce my hours unless they will give me health insurance which I’m still negotiating so the final outcome to this marital disagreeement is still pending atm.

Why am I refusing? Because my grandpa died randomly when my mom was young and my grandma lived In absolute poverty the rest of her life because it was a time before she could really work. Because my aunt stayed home to raise her three kids and as soon as the youngest turned 18 my uncle left her and she has not been able to support herself ever since, she is also living in poverty and has been for years now. Because my mother in law left her abusive husband after staying home and helping him start his business and has had to clean other people’s toilets and break her back for all the years that have passed since then. There are a million and one stories like that and those aren’t even all of the ones I know personally.

So no, I will not set myself up for That and if it means I have to work ten hours a week and pay someone my whole paycheck to take up my Responsibilities while I do then that’s what I will do. Because for a woman there are more considerations then what they want to do or even money. I’d much prefer to stay home but I’m too old to be stupid.
 






justjess

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You know what I’m talking about. No need to play dumb. Read ishigo and moritas posts for starters
I didn’t realize that ishigo or morita we’re appointed spokespeople for feminism... news to me. I wonder when feminism held the vote because I wasn’t invited. Maybe I should feel snubbed? Every reasonable feminist voice has been chased off this site over the years. As with all things toxic people thrive on toxicity so toxic people are the ones who stay. If you look at feminists actual track record of advocating and lobbying for issues revolving around unpaid domestic labor you would realize your contentions are wrong and sensationalist.
 






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I made the only choice I could. Someone had to support that child.

As far as unpaid physical labor..I will refer to my statement above regarding the reason why some women choose to work regardless of finances - prior to their ability to work if their male benefactor died they were left destitute with no options to provide for themselves. This is where unpaid domestic labor comes in... that was a woman’s only approved work domain in the past; and at this point when women choose for it to be their only work domain it leaves them with the same issue in the event of tragedy that our forebears has because domestic labor is not recognized as work.

You can not collect disability or retirement benefits on your own record if you choose to stay home or do so out of necessity. After a certain amount of years out of the workforce it is near impossible to get back in, especially to a position with sustainable wages. By not entering the workforce at all to take care of the domestic front women are leaving themselves at substantial financial risk. If domestic labor was recognized in some way as work then it would free up more women to choose not to enter the workforce or to leave the workforce when their children were young etc. This applies to stay at home dads equally as much it’s just a more rare occurance.

While I’m sure your wife appreciates the physical labor you put into your home (I surely appreciate everything my husband does) doing those things is not at the expense of earning a living OUTSIDE the home and does not have the same effect on your overall lifetime ability to provide for yourself and your financial security. In a few words, it’s different.

I will give you the personal tip on this: I’ve been arguing with my husband for weeks about my insurance on keeping my day job. Even at reduced hours. He wants me home. And I understand his position and agree on many fronts that it makes the most sense. The business is very busy and we need someone who can full time manage it.
I don’t make enough at my job to justify paying someone else something I could be doing myself. On top of that preschools aren’t taking admissions because of covid so we have massive childcare issues right now and it would be better if I could be home with my daughter... but still I’m refusing and compromised to reduce my hours unless they will give me health insurance which I’m still negotiating so the final outcome to this marital disagreeement is still pending atm.

Why am I refusing? Because my grandpa died randomly when my mom was young and my grandma lived In absolute poverty the rest of her life because it was a time before she could really work. Because my aunt stayed home to raise her three kids and as soon as the youngest turned 18 my uncle left her and she has not been able to support herself ever since, she is also living in poverty and has been for years now. Because my mother in law left her abusive husband after staying home and helping him start his business and has had to clean other people’s toilets and break her back for all the years that have passed since then. There are a million and one stories like that and those aren’t even all of the ones I know personally.

So no, I will not set myself up for That and if it means I have to work ten hours a week and pay someone my whole paycheck to take up my Responsibilities while I do then that’s what I will do. Because for a woman there are more considerations then what they want to do or even money. I’d much prefer to stay home but I’m too old to be stupid.
these were issues that were solved by society close to 100 years ago now. my 100 year old grandmother worked. My other grandmother who has passed now worked, she would’ve been close to 100 by now. All women in my family that are above 70 worked and had the opportunity to work. Those issues were solved 3 generations ago. That’s great if you agree with them but times have moved on, I don’t know why feminists would be fighting to be allowed to work like theres no feminists fighting to be allowed to vote, they have that right. Feminism is now a lot different
 






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advocating and lobbying for issues revolving around unpaid domestic labor you would realize your contentions are wrong and sensationalist.
You mean women getting paid to be mothers? I think that would be a great idea. I never hear that raised among feminists, literally I’ve never heard it and I’ve hung out with a lot of self proclaimed feminists. I think some incentive to raise a stable family, have children, homeschool if needed, with some sort of monetary compensation from the government would be great. That is getting into the fields of feminism that are not touched, because it would promote the inherent values of femininity and womanhood, the true enemy of modern feminism. They’re more concerned with women being allowed in the army and stuff like that
 






Cintra

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hate speech morita said this to me

aren't you the one who said she was disfigured by a car accident? I guess you don't get enough attention from men, except when they make fun of your ugliness...that's why you make these poor attempts at putting other women down?? Poor thing...
Nice to see a feminist sticking up for another woman.
Interesting how important she feels male attention is.
 






justjess

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these were issues that were solved by society close to 100 years ago now. my 100 year old grandmother worked. My other grandmother who has passed now worked, she would’ve been close to 100 by now. All women in my family that are above 70 worked and had the opportunity to work. Those issues were solved 3 generations ago. That’s great if you agree with them but times have moved on, I don’t know why feminists would be fighting to be allowed to work like theres no feminists fighting to be allowed to vote, they have that right. Feminism is now a lot different
You think something is solved once and then that’s it? First off the right to work is a separate issue from working conditions which is something that women still haven’t achieved full parity on. Second of all we are given rights and then those rights are walked back and/or revoked quite frequently. If you can’t see what the government does to “our rights” on a daily basis then you most likely aren’t LOOKING. Women only earned the right to VOTE about 100 years ago, this isn’t “old news” - in the span of human history that’s like ten minutes ago.
 






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