Who has more control of our thinking; God or Satan?

Joined
Sep 5, 2018
Messages
3,259
So here is your issue, capital punishment.
Yet that was the norm at that time so why exactly it's evil?
Was it not a persuasive way to use a law as a deterrent tool?
Just because it was a common practice doesn't mean that it's moral. If the Bible is the ultimate source of morality it should have been above world norms.


You talked about r*pe but we can prove that the 'rapist' must be as virgin as the girl since adultery was forbidden plus he can't divorce which means he must provide for the needs of the woman forever.
Yes so God forced women to marry their rapists. Good chap eh?


You talk about genocide but since when war means genocide ?
When its this

"5. Genocide after genocide after genocide.
In
Joshua 6:20-21
, God helps the Israelites destroy Jericho, killing “men and women, young and old, cattle, sheep and donkeys.” In
Deuteronomy 2:32-35
, God has the Israelites kill everyone in Heshbon, including children. In
Deuteronomy 3:3-7
, God has the Israelites do the same to the people of Bashan. In
Numbers 31:7-18
, the Israelites kill all the Midianites except for the virgins, whom they take as spoils of war. In
1 Samuel 15:1-9
, God tells the Israelites to kill all the Amalekites – men, women, children, infants, and their cattle – for something the Amalekites’ ancestors had done 400 years earlier."

Would you say it's inherently evil to stop nations who practiced child sacrifice knowing that you must offer peace first according to Deuteronomy 20:10?

So to stop child sacrifice we will kill all of them? Kill more children to stop child sacrifice? Makes sense. To be honest I find that line as believable as WMD's in Iraq.

About slavery, I would like to see how it could be practiced with this verse :

You shall not give back to his master the slave who has escaped from his master to you. He may dwell with you in your midst, in the place which he chooses within one of your gates, where it seems best to him; you shall not oppress him.
Deuteronomy 23:15‭-‬16

"
http://www.betterthanfaith.com/tracts/god-loves-slavery

Get real man, Yahweh hates women so much that he told men it was ok to sell their daughters as sex slaves.

A lot of things could be said but when people judge the Bible with their culture I wonder if they're aware that Greek philosophers said that capital punishments were moral and slavery was a human right (Plato, Aristotle, ect...).

Christians ended slavery and capital punishment isn't practiced in most western countries. Slavery and human trafficking is still practiced in many Asian culture today but who will disagree that it is part of their culture?
Yeah and? The Ancient world sucked and we have actually came a long way. No one says Plato or Aristotle is the divine living word of God but they do say that about the Bible.

Things can be part of someone's culture and still be immoral.
 
Joined
Jun 1, 2018
Messages
1,185
Just because it was a common practice doesn't mean that it's moral. If the Bible is the ultimate source of morality it should have been above world norms.




Yes so God forced women to marry their rapists. Good chap eh?




When its this

"5. Genocide after genocide after genocide.
In
Joshua 6:20-21

, God helps the Israelites destroy Jericho, killing “men and women, young and old, cattle, sheep and donkeys.” In
Deuteronomy 2:32-35

, God has the Israelites kill everyone in Heshbon, including children. In
Deuteronomy 3:3-7

, God has the Israelites do the same to the people of Bashan. In
Numbers 31:7-18

, the Israelites kill all the Midianites except for the virgins, whom they take as spoils of war. In
1 Samuel 15:1-9

, God tells the Israelites to kill all the Amalekites – men, women, children, infants, and their cattle – for something the Amalekites’ ancestors had done 400 years earlier."




So to stop child sacrifice we will kill all of them? Kill more children to stop child sacrifice? Makes sense. To be honest I find that line as believable as WMD's in Iraq.



http://www.betterthanfaith.com/tracts/god-loves-slavery

Get real man, Yahweh hates women so much that he told men it was ok to sell their daughters as sex slaves.



Yeah and? The Ancient world sucked and we have actually came a long way. No one says Plato or Aristotle is the divine living word of God but they do say that about the Bible.

Things can be part of someone's culture and still be immoral.
If you do not like the Bible....what is your point.....That you are more moral than God? The Bible is a History of the Adamic nature that God had to deal with. Until you Understand Spiritual things, the Bible is to you just a novel, and you are it's critic.
 

elsbet

Superstar
Joined
Jun 4, 2017
Messages
5,122
Care to name the religions you see as worse than Christianity and Islam?

What other organized religions used and continue to us inquisitions and jihads, ---- albeit at a lower intensity, against women and gays, --- and murdering people just because they are exercising their freedom of religion?

Regards
DL
Confusing Catholicism and Protestantism... again.

They are not the same.
 

DavidSon

Star
Joined
Jan 10, 2019
Messages
2,006
Will address the free will issue in GCB’s other thread shortly.

“Thou hast conquered, O pale Galilean; the world has grown grey from thy breath; We have drunken of things Lethean, and fed on the fullness of death.”

-Algernon Charles Swinburn

Human Sacrifice wasn’t as common as you are lead to believe certainly not that much in the Greco/Roman world. Eventually we would have grown out of that superstition anyway. The handful of people sacrificed in a year is nothing compared to the carnage of Christianity and Islam. The Mosaic law is evil by every standard of morality.
I wasn't referring to the Greeks and Romans- they were newcomers to the ancient world, c.500 b.c. Kingdoms of Africans and Asians stem back tens of thousands of years. We know that Mesoamericans practiced human sacrifice. By what you've said you seem very "unreligious" and I highly doubt you'd be in accord with any of the beliefs/practices of the ancients. I stand by what I said earlier: I'm thankful I'm not subject to bowing and feeding dozens of idols, a member of Al-sinister Crowley's drug cult, or forced to dance around in orgies with my family on Dion-Isis's birthday. The ancient Greeks and Romans openly promoted pedantry so death to them, sorry.

As far as the Hebrew statutes, they were almost identical to Hammurabi's code. You know, back in the day when you had to pay a man 20 goats if you poked out his eye in a bar-fight? Seriously, people were different back then. Men across the planet treated women unkindly. If anything the Israelite laws were ahead of their time compared to Asia or Europe. The northern Europeans were still in caves/mud houses in that era so we barely know how primitive their concepts were.

I don't look at the atrocities committed in human history and point my finger at a single guilty party. In India they describe massive pre-historic wars over religion. Invasions upon people have been happening for as long as we can remember. WW2 was the most destructive battle recorded, with a high estimate of 115,000,000 casualties. Who was responsible for that? I'd say the global elites. What religion were the Mongols, who over 160 years, annihilated 40,000,000 people? Look what the Japanese did to China during WW2. Mao Zedong may be responsible for 70 million deaths in his own country. Most of our ancestors are guilty of bloodshed. Anyone alive at this moment had ancestors that were either warriors or protected by warriors or we wouldn't be here, that's the sad truth.

I can agree about the mayhem caused by those who claimed Jesus Christ. The hypocrisy (and perverse irony) should be highlighted for the next generations. The suffering because of social and scientific repression by the Holy Roman Empire for over 1500 years is immeasurable. If we combine the genocide on Indigenous Americans with direct wars and murders by "Christian" people, it must be the greatest source of misery ever known. Anyone who follows the teachings of Jesus has to own up to the facts of what was done in His name, and work toward reparations for their own sake.
 

Wigi

Veteran
Joined
Aug 24, 2017
Messages
891
Just because it was a common practice doesn't mean that it's moral
Would you say r*pe, abortion and adultery are immoral even if it's widespread today?
I say yes but what will you say?

Also, is it moral to break the law ?

If the Bible is the ultimate source of morality it should have been above world norms.
Violence was the norm yet it is written that they should offer peace.

Slavery was the norm but servants could be freed, had at least one day of rest per week, received a wage (Leviticus 19:13) and can't be sent away without goods nor presents (Deuteronomy 15:13)

God forced women to marry their rapists
Nowhere it's said that they are forced to accept the man.(Exodus 18:26) It's like saying 'people are forced to divorce' because of a verse.

Genocide after genocide after genocide.
It sounds like you copied that from a 'skeptic' website.

People loves to ignore that a fight is always done with someone and the winner always looks evil.

About Joshua and Jericho: Can you tell me why Rahab, the harlot, was spared with her family ?

And what about those who refused peace in Deuteronomy ?

Can you tell me why Moses never saw the promised land after Numbers 31?

About Amalekites, are you aware that Saul disobeyed?

So to stop child sacrifice we will kill all of them
They're not forced to kill children but the fact is, mankind was so deep in sin that they couldn't care for the life of their people.
Why fighting in a war when you know that your people will die?

Evil spiritual forces were at work during these battles because the goal was to stop the coming of the messiah.

To be honest I find that line as believable as WMD's in Iraq.
Except we have the proof that child sacrifice were practiced for moon gods. Those moon gods were worshipped in Jericho for example and in Canaan.

Get real man, Yahweh hates women so much that he told men it was ok to sell their daughters as sex slaves.
No such thing as 'sex slave', adultery was forbidden plus daughters should be treated as.. daughters.

Are you aware that there was many prophetess and queens (ruling as a king) in the Bible ?
Probably not.

The Ancient world sucked and we have actually came a long way
You're the result of those civilisations you despise and your humanistic values were non-existent and wouldn't exist without the first Christian humanists.

The truth is:

Humanism wouldn't survive a single day back then because Altruism and Mercy weren't taught by Jesus and Human rights hasn't stopped WW1 &2

The problem is human nature.
 

Aero

Superstar
Joined
Mar 13, 2017
Messages
5,910
The battle between God and Satan is really a battle over truth.

Satan being the king of lies has one goal. To usurp God and all aspects of truth. You can all dig into it further, but as far as I'm concerned this is the most practical explanation.
 

Aero

Superstar
Joined
Mar 13, 2017
Messages
5,910
There is no battle between God and Satan...Satan can only do what God allows.
Ok well, there's still a battle over the truth. Surely God invented such a thing, as he invented all things. In Gnosticism, we don't even believe in Satan anyway. The idea of evil is a dangerous thing without boundaries.

There are cause and effect. Right and wrong. The guilty and innocent. But I question whether anyone is really good or evil. Maybe it's better to say that good and evil aren't static things like the others I listed.
 
Joined
Jun 1, 2018
Messages
1,185
Ok well, there's still a battle over the truth. Surely God invented such a thing, as he invented all things. In Gnosticism, we don't even believe in Satan anyway. The idea of evil is a dangerous thing without boundaries.

There are cause and effect. Right and wrong. The guilty and innocent. But I question whether anyone is really good or evil. Maybe it's better to say that good and evil aren't static things like the others I listed.
I Believe and am grounded in the word...…..What I may not understand, I trust The Lord. He is the head of all things and showed Himself alive after His passion by many infallible proofs...……...…..And another infallible proofs of a creator is The Law of Thermal Dynamics.
 
Joined
Oct 30, 2017
Messages
1,865
Satan being the king of lies
??
The first commandment says to not place anyone above God for any attribute.

Now, therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee. 1Kings 22:23

Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets. 2 Chron 18:22

Ah, Lord GOD! surely thou hast greatly deceived this people.
Jer 4:10

And if a prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have deceived that prophet. Ezekiel 14:9

For this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie. Thessalonians 2:11

O Lord, thou hast deceived me, and I was deceived. - Jeremiah 20:7

To me, God’s worse lie was to Adam and Eve. He told them they could eat of the tree of life and then reneged and in a real sense murdered them by denying them a remedy.

That pesky God sure works in mysterious ways.

Can you show as many lies coming out of Satan?

Regards
DL
 
Joined
Oct 30, 2017
Messages
1,865
Ok well, there's still a battle over the truth. Surely God invented such a thing, as he invented all things. In Gnosticism, we don't even believe in Satan anyway. The idea of evil is a dangerous thing without boundaries.

There are cause and effect. Right and wrong. The guilty and innocent. But I question whether anyone is really good or evil. Maybe it's better to say that good and evil aren't static things like the others I listed.
All morals subjective and not objective. No?

For instance, one might be found guilty of something but not necessarily culpable. Google mens rea, the basis of most laws.

I can murder or tortures a person, but not have any wrong or culpability associated with it if the goal is sufficiently good.

Regards
DL
 
Joined
Oct 30, 2017
Messages
1,865
I Believe and am grounded in the word...…..What I may not understand, I trust The Lord. He is the head of all things and showed Himself alive after His passion by many infallible proofs...……...…..And another infallible proofs of a creator is The Law of Thermal Dynamics.
You trust the judgement of a genocidal son murderer. Wow.

As to proofs, your God of the Gaps certainly never shows he is alive. He would have to pop up to do that.

Have you seen God lately?

Regards
DL
 

Red Sky at Morning

Superstar
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
13,931
1 Timothy 4

1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;2Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

Question: "What does it mean to have a seared conscience?"

Answer:
The Bible speaks of a seared conscience in 1 Timothy 4:2. The conscience is the God-given moral consciousness within each of us (Romans 2:15). If the conscience is “seared”—literally “cauterized”—then it has been rendered insensitive. Such a conscience does not work properly; it’s as if “spiritual scar tissue” has dulled the sense of right and wrong. Just as the hide of an animal scarred with a branding iron becomes numb to further pain, so the heart of an individual with a seared conscience is desensitized to moral pangs.

Paul identifies those who have a seared conscience in 1 Timothy 4:1–2: “The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron.” In this passage, we learn three things about false teachers who lead others into apostasy: 1) they are mouthpieces for evil spirits, since they promulgate “things taught by demons”; 2) they are hypocritical liars, since they wear a mask of holiness but are full of falsehood; and 3) they are unscrupulous, since their consciences have been cauterized. This explains much. How can false teachers lie with no shame and spread deception with no compunction? Because they have seared consciences. They are past feeling that lying is wrong.

Earlier in the epistle, Paul speaks of the “good conscience” as opposed to the seared conscience. “Advancing God’s work,” he says, comes by faith, and love “comes from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith” (1 Timothy 1:4–5). A good conscience has the capability to tell right from wrong and is free from guilt. A person with a good conscience maintains his integrity. He enjoys fellowship with those who “walk in the light, as [Jesus] is in the light” (1 John 1:7). The lies of the devil are anathema to the one with a good conscience. Rather than follow the lies of apostates, he will “fight the battle well, holding on to faith and a good conscience” (1 Timothy 1:18–19).

Proverbs 6:27 asks a rhetorical question to illustrate the consequences of adultery: “Can a man scoop fire into his lap / without his clothes being burned?” To paraphrase the question in relation to false teaching, “Can an apostate dispense the fiery lies of hell without his conscience being seared?”

https://www.gotquestions.org/seared-conscience.html
 
Joined
Oct 30, 2017
Messages
1,865
1 Timothy 4

1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;2Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

Question: "What does it mean to have a seared conscience?"

Answer: The Bible speaks of a seared conscience in 1 Timothy 4:2. The conscience is the God-given moral consciousness within each of us (Romans 2:15). If the conscience is “seared”—literally “cauterized”—then it has been rendered insensitive. Such a conscience does not work properly; it’s as if “spiritual scar tissue” has dulled the sense of right and wrong. Just as the hide of an animal scarred with a branding iron becomes numb to further pain, so the heart of an individual with a seared conscience is desensitized to moral pangs.

Paul identifies those who have a seared conscience in 1 Timothy 4:1–2: “The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron.” In this passage, we learn three things about false teachers who lead others into apostasy: 1) they are mouthpieces for evil spirits, since they promulgate “things taught by demons”; 2) they are hypocritical liars, since they wear a mask of holiness but are full of falsehood; and 3) they are unscrupulous, since their consciences have been cauterized. This explains much. How can false teachers lie with no shame and spread deception with no compunction? Because they have seared consciences. They are past feeling that lying is wrong.

Earlier in the epistle, Paul speaks of the “good conscience” as opposed to the seared conscience. “Advancing God’s work,” he says, comes by faith, and love “comes from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith” (1 Timothy 1:4–5). A good conscience has the capability to tell right from wrong and is free from guilt. A person with a good conscience maintains his integrity. He enjoys fellowship with those who “walk in the light, as [Jesus] is in the light” (1 John 1:7). The lies of the devil are anathema to the one with a good conscience. Rather than follow the lies of apostates, he will “fight the battle well, holding on to faith and a good conscience” (1 Timothy 1:18–19).

Proverbs 6:27 asks a rhetorical question to illustrate the consequences of adultery: “Can a man scoop fire into his lap / without his clothes being burned?” To paraphrase the question in relation to false teaching, “Can an apostate dispense the fiery lies of hell without his conscience being seared?”

https://www.gotquestions.org/seared-conscience.html
You see Satan ruling then.

Why did God give her dominion over your mind and cause the deception that you post?

Regards
DL
 

Red Sky at Morning

Superstar
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
13,931
You see Satan ruling then.

Why did God give her dominion over your mind and cause the deception that you post?

Regards
DL
I think on some level we each choose who we will trust and which narrative to accept. The materialist trusts natural law, the Luciferian trusts the "light bringer" and @Gnostic Christian Bishop - I trust my Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ. I take his words seriously...

Matthew 10:33
33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

Might I have misplaced my faith. I bet my life I haven't...
 
Joined
Oct 30, 2017
Messages
1,865
I think on some level we each choose who we will trust and which narrative to accept. The materialist trusts natural law, the Luciferian trusts the "light bringer" and @Gnostic Christian Bishop - I trust my Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ. I take his words seriously...

Matthew 10:33
33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

Might I have misplaced my faith. I bet my life I haven't...
So you do not believe scriptures that give Satan the power to deceive the whole world and you cannot answer why God gave her dominion over us.

As to Choosing who you will trust.

I see you ignore the scriptures that say God will decide who he will give his grace to have faith or belief to and who he will let not believe and go to hell.

I would say that your are half a Christian. No more.

Regards
DL
 

Red Sky at Morning

Superstar
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
13,931
So you do not believe scriptures that give Satan the power to deceive the whole world and you cannot answer why God gave her dominion over us.

As to Choosing who you will trust.

I see you ignore the scriptures that say God will decide who he will give his grace to have faith or belief to and who he will let not believe and go to hell.

I would say that your are half a Christian. No more.

Regards
DL
Is @VigilantCitizen to blame for allowing you to come on this forum in order to try to prey on the weak and confused? This place is a microcosm of the world - freedom, good, evil, choice.
 
Top