Who has more control of our thinking; God or Satan?

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Who has more control of our thinking; God or Satan?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNcRXeCzpno

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=21&v=GgnClrx8N2k

I don’t know what God or Satan’s game is, but God givingSatan dominion over our political/physical realm as well as the power todeceive our spiritual/religious realm in us all seems counterintuitive to whata good God would do.

It seems like God is giving Satan the advantage, in terms ofour ability to think without deception or Satan’s undo interference.

Rev12;9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent,called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast outinto the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Why did God curse us with Satan and her minions?

It cannot be to give us free will as none of us have thefree will to never sin. If we did have that, we would have some examples ofpeople who never sinned.

On another tangent, scriptures say that God himself put’slies/deception into his prophets and that he decides who will have faith or notby his doling out grace only to those he has pre-selected and thus denies otherthe ability to have faith or belief.

This biblical contradiction, strangely, refutes all that Iput above on Satan. Can Christians clear up this contradiction?

Regards
DL

 

[Colonel Valerio]

On another tangent, scriptures say that God himself put’slies/deception into his prophets and that he decides who will have faith or notby his doling out grace only to those he has pre-selected and thus denies otherthe ability to have faith or belief.

This biblical contradiction, strangely, refutes all that Iput above on Satan. Can Christians clear up this contradiction?

Regards
DL

Pre-destination is the only logical conclusion to the idea of an all-knowing omnipotent God. It is also by any definition a very evil concept.

This Yahweh character is the most evil thing to ever be recorded, surely more evil than what is called Satan.

 

[DavidSon]

Pre-destination is the only logical conclusion to the idea of an all-knowing omnipotent God. It is also by any definition a very evil concept.

This Yahweh character is the most evil thing to ever be recorded, surely more evil than what is called Satan.

You're over-simplifying the ideas of predestination argued and reasoned over for thousands of years: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predestination. Do you have something more to offer than, "it's a very evil concept"?

Also there's been far worse cults and their demigods. Seriously you'd rather follow bacchus and diana? You support human sacrifice and pederasty? If any of the thousands of gods people worshiped had become the prevalent concept of the world I'm sure you'd have some serious problems. I'm personally thankful we conceive of Him as God and not bog lol.

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Pre-destination is the only logical conclusion to the idea of an all-knowing omnipotent God. It is also by any definition a very evil concept.

This Yahweh character is the most evil thing to ever be recorded, surely more evil than what is called Satan.

I agree, but see Allah as running neck and neck with him in terms of creating the foulest ideology/theology on earth.

If Allah win's that race, then he would the most evil.

We will have to judge them by their fruits, as Jesus would say, and Christianity and Islam are like two sides of the same coin.

Regards
DL

 

[Wigi]

Who has more control of our thinking; God or Satan?

I think about 6 biblical references that could answer almost all your questions:

You were in Eden, the garden of God; Every precious stone was your covering: The sardius, topaz, and diamond, Beryl, onyx, and jasper, Sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold. The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes Was prepared for you on the day you were created. “You were the anointed cherub who covers; I established you; You were on the holy mountain of God; You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones. You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created, Till iniquity was found in you. “By the abundance of your trading You became filled with violence within, And you sinned; Therefore I cast you as a profane thing Out of the mountain of God; And I destroyed you, O covering cherub, From the midst of the fiery stones. “Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty; You corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor; I cast you to the ground, I laid you before kings, That they might gaze at you.
Ezekiel 28:13‭-‬17

"And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer. So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."
Revelation 12:7‭-‬9

Now the serpent was more cunning than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said to the woman, “Has God indeed said, ‘You shall not eat of every tree of the garden’?”
Genesis 3:1

in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience,
Ephesians 2:2

Jesus answered and said to them: “He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age.
Matthew 13:37‭-‬40

If we did have that, we would have some examples of people who never sinned.

Apparently, Enoch and Elijha never sinned.

he decides who will have faith or not

Not really,

"And you will seek Me and find Me, when you search for Me with all your heart."
Jeremiah 29:13

For I have no pleasure in the death of one who dies,” says the Lord God . “Therefore turn and live!”
Ezekiel 18:32

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Also there's been far worse cults and their demigods.

Care to name the religions you see as worse than Christianity and Islam?

What other organized religions used and continue to us inquisitions and jihads, ---- albeit at a lower intensity, against women and gays, --- and murdering people just because they are exercising their freedom of religion?

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Not really,

That was your reply to my statement that God decides who will have faith or not.

Meet me here please.

https://vigilantcitizenforums.com/threads/are-non-believers-doomed-by-divine-design.5281/

Thanks.

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

I think about 6 biblical references that could answer almost all your questions:

I disagree and if you wish to try again with commentary to scriptures that we do not seem to understand the same way, so that I might see them as you do, I am here for you.

I did understand one of your responses and put it in the post just above with an invitation to move there instead of derailing here. Thanks.

Regards
DL

 

[Colonel Valerio]

You're over-simplifying the ideas of predestination argued and reasoned over for thousands of years: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predestination. Do you have something more to offer than, "it's a very evil concept"?

Also there's been far worse cults and their demigods. Seriously you'd rather follow bacchus and diana? You support human sacrifice and pederasty? If any of the thousands of gods people worshiped had become the prevalent concept of the world I'm sure you'd have some serious problems. I'm personally thankful we conceive of Him as God and not bog lol.

Will address the free will issue in GCB’s other thread shortly.

“Thou hast conquered, O pale Galilean; the world has grown grey from thy breath; We have drunken of things Lethean, and fed on the fullness of death.”

-Algernon Charles Swinburn

Human Sacrifice wasn’t as common as you are lead to believe certainly not that much in the Greco/Roman world. Eventually we would have grown out of that superstition anyway. The handful of people sacrificed in a year is nothing compared to the carnage of Christianity and Islam. The Mosaic law is evil by every standard of morality.

 

[Colonel Valerio]

I agree, but see Allah as running neck and neck with him in terms of creating the foulest ideology/theology on earth.

If Allah win's that race, then he would the most evil.

We will have to judge them by their fruits, as Jesus would say, and Christianity and Islam are like two sides of the same coin.

Regards
DL

Allah is just another variant of the same being. I agree that it is also very evil.

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Will address the free will issue in GCB’s other thread shortly.

“Thou hast conquered, O pale Galilean; the world has grown grey from thy breath; We have drunken of things Lethean, and fed on the fullness of death.”

-Algernon Charles Swinburn

Human Sacrifice wasn’t as common as you are lead to believe certainly not that much in the Greco/Roman world. Eventually we would have grown out of that superstition anyway. The handful of people sacrificed in a year is nothing compared to the carnage of Christianity and Islam. The Mosaic law is evil by every standard of morality.

I agree.

To my knowledge, all child sacrifice is associated with excessive births in city states that had finite resources. Feeding them would have cost the lives of workers.

That was also why the various clergy tried so hard to have their sheeple sanctify the sexual act and also why the temples used temple prostitutes to ease sexual tensions and have men leave their wives alone.

Not to get into sex too much, but if you look at the expulsion painting at the Vatican, you will see a subliminal blip in Eves position that would also reduce the numbers of births and sacrifices.

Regards
DL

 

[Wigi]

The Mosaic law is evil by every standard of morality.

I agree to disagree. What's the standard that you use to qualify something as evil? And why it's evil if it's just a matter of culture?

 

[Wigi]

Care to name the religions you see as worse than Christianity and Islam?

What other organized religions used and continue to us inquisitions and jihads, ---- albeit at a lower intensity, against women and gays, --- and murdering people just because they are exercising their freedom of religion?

Regards
DL

Religions aren't tangible beings that could do harm, the problem is human nature.

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Religions aren't tangible beings that could do harm, the problem is human nature.

True, but it is impossible to split the believer from his religion so when I speak of the organization, I am automatically including the theists that represent those religions.

To say that a religion and their ideology/theology cannot do harm would be wrong.

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

I agree to disagree. What's the standard that you use to qualify something as evil? And why it's evil if it's just a matter of culture?

If I may but in.

The standard I look at is the use of inquisition and or jihads. If the religion uses one of those, it is evil.

Do you see the religions using those instead of sound moral arguments to grow, moral and good, or immoral and evil?

That would include low level inquisitions and jihads against women and gays with homophobic and misogynous teachings.

Regards
DL

 

[Colonel Valerio]

I agree to disagree. What's the standard that you use to qualify something as evil? And why it's evil if it's just a matter of culture?

Executions for idolatry, blasphemy, stoking a fire on the Sabbath, being a rebellious son, adultery and homosexuality, and perjury for starters. It endorses Genocide and r*pe, and slavery.

Dueteronomy 22:28 If a man rapes a young woman who is a virgin 29 he that lay with her must pay her father fifty shekels and marry her, and never divorce her as long as he lives



Dueteronomy 13:15 Thou shalt forthwith kill
the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, and shalt destroy it and all things that are in it, even the cattle

I could give countless examples but this a good summary of how wretchedly evil Yahweh and his prophet Moses were.


http://commonsenseatheism.com/?p=21

 

[Wigi]

True, but it is impossible to split the believer from his religion

What matters for me it's the content of the character and the behavior or we could say atheism is evil because Lenin invented Gulags.

To say that a religion and their ideology/theology cannot do harm would be wrong.

It can't do harm unless the ideology encourage you to do harm.

The standard I look at is the use of inquisition and or jihads. If the religion uses one of those, it is evil.

Maybe, just maybe, all of that originate from human greed?
Saying a religion is evil because of individuals is a guilt by association.

Do you see the religions using those instead of sound moral arguments to grow, moral and good, or immoral and evil?

Absolutely not but once again,
saying a religion is evil because of individuals is a guilt by association.
Not everyone want 'inquisition' and in fact, I would like to know if you've heard of an inquisition that happens right now.

That would include low level inquisitions and jihads against women and gays with homophobic and misogynous teachings

Well, the words 'homophobic' and 'misogynous' is so used nowadays that we don't understand the meaning anymore.

Disagreeing with something has nothing to do with a 'phobia'

 

[Wigi]

Executions for idolatry, blasphemy, stoking a fire on the Sabbath, being a rebellious son, adultery and homosexuality, and perjury for starters. It endorses Genocide and r*pe, and slavery.

Dueteronomy 22:28 If a man rapes a young woman who is a virgin 29 he that lay with her must pay her father fifty shekels and marry her, and never divorce her as long as he lives



Dueteronomy 13:15 Thou shalt forthwith


kill



the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, and shalt destroy it and all things that are in it, even the cattle













I mean I could literally give dozens of examples of how evil the Law is/was.

i will explain the context later but I wanted to know the standard that you use to qualify something as evil. Also why it's evil if it's just a matter of culture?
For example, your culture is okay with adultery but not okay with r*pe ?

Your culture is okay with abortion but killings are always wrong even if it stops the Nazis?

 

[Colonel Valerio]

i will explain the context later but I wanted to know the standard that you use to qualify something as evil. Also why it's evil if it's just a matter of culture?
For example, your culture is okay with adultery but not okay with r*pe ?

Your culture is okay with abortion but killings are always wrong even if it stops the Nazis?

https://vigilantcitizenforums.com/threads/good-and-evil-subjective-or-objective.5129/

See my thread and thoughts on the subject.

I wouldn't say adultery is good but its not something to put people to death for.

In most instances violence is wrong, abortion is really complicated and I don't feel like getting into it. Maybe sometimes you do have to use force to stop people from hurting others, that is something I personally wrestle with.

 

[Wigi]

its not something to put people to death for.

So here is your issue, capital punishment.
Yet that was the norm at that time so why exactly it's evil?
Was it not a persuasive way to use a law as a deterrent tool?

If not, is it not the proof that human nature tend to use his free will to break the law no matter the costs?

You talked about r*pe but we can prove that the 'rapist' must be as virgin as the girl since adultery was forbidden plus he can't divorce which means he must provide for the needs of the woman forever.

You talk about genocide but since when war means genocide ?

Would you say it's inherently evil to stop nations who practiced child sacrifice knowing that you must offer peace first according to Deuteronomy 20:10?

About slavery, I would like to see how it could be practiced with this verse :

“You shall not give back to his master the slave who has escaped from his master to you. He may dwell with you in your midst, in the place which he chooses within one of your gates, where it seems best to him; you shall not oppress him.
Deuteronomy 23:15‭-‬16

"There are many servants nowadays who break away each one from his master."
1 Samuel 25:10

A lot of things could be said but when people judge the Bible with their culture I wonder if they're aware that Greek philosophers said that capital punishments were moral and slavery was a human right (Plato, Aristotle, ect...).

Christians ended slavery and capital punishment isn't practiced in most western countries. Slavery and human trafficking is still practiced in many Asian culture today but who will disagree that it is part of their culture?