Where Was Solomon's Temple Built?

Red Sky at Morning

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There are two competing views around at the moment and I haven't entirely made my mind up on this question but it is an area where archaeology, tradition, scripture and Middle-East politics converge...
 
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@Red Sky at Morning
http://www.timesofisrael.com/full-text-of-new-unesco-resolution-on-occupied-palestine/
https://www.livescience.com/56517-did-unesco-deny-temple-mount-jewish-temples.html
all that's happened is they've used the word 'al haram al sharif' which is the arabic/muslim name for the temple mount.

Israel is getting desperate these days.
For example Netenyahu completely denies the entire history of jews in persia from the time of Cyrus the Great to the Sassanid empire to the Abbasid empire.
He simply sums up the entire relationship of jews with persia as 'they tried to destroy us/purim'

Fact is Persia has been the real home for jews for far longer than israel/judea ever was.
What the history of israel/judea proves is that jews can never live with their neighbours in peace..and nor can they live amongst themselves.
The only time they've had peace is when a higher power has controlled them.
 

Red Sky at Morning

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@AspiringSoul

You are very insightful! "The only time they've had peace is when a higher power has controlled them."

God never intended them to be able to succeed without him, otherwise they would be able to say that they 'did it's themselves. They will never have peace till they turn to God once more, and accept that Jesus was their promised Messiah.
 
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@AspiringSoul

You are very insightful! "The only time they've had peace is when a higher power has controlled them."

God never intended them to be able to succeed without him, otherwise they would be able to say that they 'did it's themselves. They will never have peace till they turn to God once more, and accept that Jesus was their promised Messiah.
kind of N/A given they had God and they had a lot of prophets and they still messed it up every time.
The moral here isn't that 'they need God'
the moral is...the nature of duality and the ego, causes suffering with or without God so when Jesus came he was trying to educate them on returning to the God via the mystical path ie union..where the drop dissolves in the ocean etc...to put the ego to death.
That's the highest teaching in islamic sufism, in hinduism, sikhism etc.

This is precisely why us muslims don't trust jews.
backstabbers of the highest order.

you know im not even bothered if they respect islam/muslims...however they should collectively have a special place for persia given the times persians saved their asses.
if it wasn't for Cyrus there would be no second temple and judea...

but let's just remember purim right?
 

DesertRose

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Why do you violate God's Order?


It will not succeed

Advertisement by Neturei Karta (1) in New York Times, May 18, 1993

There is much discussion in the media about peace and peace conferences. The Torah cannot be ignored because God deals with us in the ways of the Torah which was given to us by Him on Mount Sinai.

What does the Torah say?

According to the Torah, before the Almighty gave us the Holy land 3264 years ago, He made these conditions. If we will abide by the Torah, it is ours, if not, we will be expelled. Alas, we sinned and were expelled, even though at that time we were very strong and as the prophet Jeremiah said 'All the kings and people of the world did not believe that any invader would be able to come through the gates of Jerusalem' (Lamentations 4:12)...Because of our sins we were expelled from our land. Only through complete repentance will the Almighty alone without any human effort or intervention, redeem us from exile. At that time there will be universal peace. This will be after the coming of the prophet Eliyahu and the true Moschiach 'not by might and not by power, only by My spirit (Zecharie Chapter 4). The Zionists rejected the Jewish belief and claimed that the cure for the Jewish problem is to have a strong state with a strong army. This exchange of the sacred belief for nationalism is destroying the holy essence of the Jewish people and has brought constant war and bloodshed. The result is their state is the most dangerous place. Betrayal of the Jews

The Zionists have sacrificed Jewish lives in their ongoing conflicts. To achieve their goal of statehood the Zionists have always deliberately provoked anti-Semitism. During the Second World War the Zionists were against giving money to rescue Jews. The Zionist leader Yitzhak Greenbaum said in a speech in Tel Aviv on Feb. 18, 1943 that 'One should resist this wave to push Zionist activities to secondary importance'. He also said 'One cow in Palestine is more important than all the European Jews'. Their interest was not to save Jews, on the contrary, more spilling of Jewish blood would strengthen their demand of the nations for the creation of their state. Their motto was Rak B'Dam (only by blood will we get the land).

Rabbis warned of danger

All of the greatest rabbinical sages warned of the dangers Zionism would bring. The euphoria over Zionism and all its paraphernalia, i.e. army, embassies, flag, etc. is, according to the Torah, 'the work of Satan' to test the faith. But the true faith of Jews has not changed and 'peace talks', past or present, cannot change it. The belief is that not only can there be no real peace as long as the Zionist state exists but worse than this, the Zionist state is the biggest catastrophe for the Jewish people!

'No peace, God said, for the evil doers' (Jesaiah 48 and 57)

The Three Oaths

We have been adjured by the Almighty 'not to use human force to bring about the establishment of a state, not to rebel against the nations, to remain loyal citizens, not to leave exile ahead of time. Even if the land would be given to us by all nations, we are not allowed to accept it. To violate the oaths would result in your flesh be made prey as the deer and the antelope in the forest (Talmud Tractate Ksubos III). Jews lived in Palestine in peace and harmony with the Palestinians until the Zionists came. The true Jews are not just against the occupation of the West Bank and Gaza with the daily oppression and killing, but are also opposed to the occupation of the entire land of Palestine. According to the Torah, all Palestine should be returned to the Palestinians and other occupied territories should also be returned to their rightful owners.

  • According to the Torah, Jews are not allowed to shed blood, harm, humiliate or dominate another people
  • Let the world know that being a Jew means being devoted to the Torah and rejection of the Zionist heresy. In the Zionist state Jews suffer religious persecution and intolerance and even ancestral graves are destroyed and desecrated in line with the Zionist plan to destroy the Jewish religion. Even if the Zionists advocate religious observance it would still be an atheist state.
  • Zionist politicians and their fellow travellers do not speak for the Jewish people, the name Israel has been stolen by them. Indeed, the Zionist conspiracy against Jewish tradition and law makes Zionism and all its activities and entities the greatest enemy of the Jewish people.
Signed:
American Neturei Karta - Friends of Jerusalem
Rabbi E. Schwartz - P.O. Box 1030, New York, NY10009

[Neturei Karta is a community of Orthodox Jews who reject Zionism and refuse to recognize the Zionist state. Members of this community are found mainly in Jerusalem, Antwerp, London and New York.]

God told us in the Quran that many of the Jews were "perverted transgressors" in the time of the prophet, and verily is that true today. For it would seem that so many of the Jews today are Zionists, and there those Zionists that don't even know what they are doing is wrong.

But there are those that do.

And there are those who persist in their transgressions.

And there are those that don't.

[Such as those who wrote the above piece]
https://www.missionislam.com/nwo/violation.htm
 
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Christians think the anti-christ will be some catholic or muslim dude who'll go after the sinful jews and then they'll suffer, believe in Jesus and then good times.
They misinterpret the Daniel propheces which apply to Titus..and imagine the anti-christ making a 7 yyear treaty with the jews and in the middle breaking it.

But Daniel 9 says
27 And he shall make a firm covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease; and upon the wing of abominations shall come one that maketh desolate; and even unto the full end, and that determined, shall wrath be poured out upon the desolate.

ie Titus did this when he ended the sacrifice. Today this is N/A until the temple exists.


Zech 11..foretold 2 shepherds..
the one who they rejected (ie judas betraying Jesus for 30 peices of silver)

So they weighed for my hire thirty pieces of silver. 13 And Jehovah said unto me, Cast it unto the potter, the goodly price that I was prized at by them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and cast them unto the potter, in the house of Jehovah. 14 Then I cut asunder mine other staff, even Bands, that I might break the brotherhood between Judah and Israel.

Then it foretells the anti-christ

15 The Lord said to me: This time take the gear of a foolish shepherd. 16 For I am raising up a shepherd in the land who will take no note of those that disappear, nor seek the strays, nor heal the injured, nor feed the exhausted; but he will eat the flesh of the fat ones and tear off their hoofs!

Oracle to the Worthless Shepherd
17 Ah! my worthless shepherd
who forsakes the flock!
May the sword fall upon his arm
and upon his right eye;
His arm will surely wither,
and his right eye surely go blind!



The anti-christ is the messiah the jews are GOING to select.
The entire creation of israel today is part of this process ie THEY are 'the whore of babylon'
and the Beast (the anti-christ) will 'Hate the whore and bring her to ruin'
The Beast of the Sea=Rome, the western colonialist powers who have used the jews as their tool. ie the whore sitting on the beast but the beast destroys her..meaning the whore is merely taking the beast to it's destination.
The worthless shepherd is going to betray his own people when the time comes...and he'll do this to deceive everyone
so it's convenient to present the state of israel and it's supporters as the primary antagonist


@DesertRose For example..when Imran Hossein presents Israel AS the dajjalic system by itself...he plays into the hands of dajjal ie theo ne who destroys 'dajjalic israel' who is he then?
the shia imam mahdi? the guy in occultation? that's who dajjal is.

Dajjal is alive
2 Thessalonians 2
For unless the apostasy comes first and the lawless one is revealed,c]" the one doomed to perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god and object of worship, so as to seat himself in the temple of God,d]" claiming that he is a god— 5 do you not recall that while I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining,ehat he may be revealed in his time. 7 f]">[f]For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. But the one who restrains is to do so only for the present, until he is removed from the scene. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord [Jesus] will kill with the breath of his mouth and render powerless by the manifestation of his coming, 9 the one whose coming springs from the power of Satan in every mighty deed and in signs and wonders that lie, 10 and in every wicked deceit for those who are perishing because they have not accepted the love of truth so that they may be saved. 11 Therefore, God is sending them a deceiving power so that they may believe the lie, 12 that all who have not believed the truth but have approved wrongdoing may be condemned.



The jewish messiah in occultation

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=fvp1CQAAQBAJ&pg=PA83&lpg=PA83&dq=menahem+ben+amiel+seraphs&source=bl&ots=W-GZFfcoiV&sig=-8HuLNzwpTqKkidIxqWJxdLX_-s&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjX0OCXxvXUAhWsKcAKHbxSCrMQ6AEIPTAD#v=onepage&q=menahem ben amiel seraphs&f=false

http://www.truefreethinker.com/articles/jewish-judaism-suffering-servant-part-5-7
http://www.menorah.org/daniel.html

" Messiah, then, is clearly "alive and well" for the last nineteen hundred years. His name is "Menachem," the Comforter, the son of Amiel which sounds very close and has a similar meaning in the Hebrew as Immanuel. He started to work around the great Mediterranean Sea, went to Samaria (Korah), then Rome and the ends of the world. Why was He expected at that particular time? Clearly there was a certainty that Messiah had to appear at that period. In our opinion, this conviction was based on the famous ninth chapter of the Book of Daniel:"

remember Banu Tamim hadith?








 

DesertRose

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@DesertRose For example..when Imran Hossein presents Israel AS the dajjalic system by itself...he plays into the hands of dajjal ie theo ne who destroys 'dajjalic israel' who is he then?
the shia imam mahdi? the guy in occultation? that's who dajjal is.
Thanks for your info, as I said before I am not familiar with Christian end times and so it is difficult to come up with correlations.
Does Imran hosein present it only as a system?
I was not aware that he rejected the dajjal as a person.
I thought he did say that the shi'ites are waiting for the wrong mahdi somewhere. ......I will look into it though.
I do put question marks on some of his interpretations on religious symbolism such as who Rum is?
We can not know how it all pans out but he did say not to take his words as fact , he is just trying to interpret the symbolism behind some of the hadiths and he could be wrong.
 
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No he does believe dajjal is real but he presents Israel as the dajjalic state and dajjal as the icing on the cake
What he doesn't yet realise is that Israel is a decoy and dajjal destroying Israel is part of prophecy ie Zechariah 11

And I do suspect the Shia Mahdi in "occultation" fits the picture
Prophecies and expectations are a funny thing
The Jews used to believe the messiah who they desired ie the conquering law making version was coming in Arabia
what They desired is basically what ProphetMohammed Saw became ie except he wasn't Jewish
This is part of Gods promise ie what they plant they won't eat
Get it?

Now apply that to us muslims and our collective expectations ie the Mahdi
What aspect of our expectations fit the joule of dajjal?
Likewise what aspects of modern Jewish expectations actually fit our Mahdi?

These are shadow aspects of prophecy which people overlook
Ie not only is it the shadow of prophecy
The Shia Mahdi being in occultation is pretty trippy stuff and I know sufis like the haqqanis claim to have "met him"
Imo people like sheikh nazim were major imposters liars etc but that's a diff story
 
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It's kind of like Jews hating on Persia whilst dajjal is going to come with an army from Isfahan
Today there are very few Jews left In Isfahan
And likewise 70000 bani Israel will conquer 'Constantinople' as muslims
Then they'll follow dajjal
Ie bloodline Israelites and Jews but religiously they're likely to be Shia
 

DesertRose

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What he doesn't yet realise is that Israel is a decoy and dajjal destroying Israel is part of prophecy ie Zechariah 11
Agreed
This is part of Gods promise ie what they plant they won't eat
Get it?
....Yup...Jesus is the messiah and the Creator sent a prophet who was ishmealite...in fulfillment of Abraham's prayer peace be upon him. (Edited....prophet Jesus is the messiah).
Prophet Muhammad (p) is a direct descendant of Ismael (p), the first son of Prophet Abraham (p), he was born in Makkah as a fulfillment of the prayer of Abraham (p).

And (remember) when the Lord of Ibrahim (Abraham) (i.e., Allah) tried him with (certain) Commands, which he fulfilled. He (Allah) said (to him), "Verily, I am going to make you a leader (Prophet) of mankind." (Ibrahim (Abraham)) said, "And of my offspring (to make leaders)." (Allah) said, "My Covenant (Prophethood, etc.) includes not Zalimoon (polytheists and wrong-doers).
{Holy Quran 2:124}

It's kind of like Jews hating on Persia whilst dajjal is going to come with an army from Isfahan
Today there are very few Jews left In Isfahan
And likewise 70000 bani Israel will conquer 'Constantinople' as muslims
Then they'll follow dajjal
Ie bloodline Israelites and Jews but religiously they're likely to be Shia
Agreed brother....
 
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@DesertRose not sure if you meant to say that but Isa AS is the messiah
The Quran and the prophet Saw confirmed it. What you should appreciate is that the 2 aspects of Isa As ie before the ascension and when he returns
They are echoed by the 2 periods of the prophet Saw ie the Meccan and Madni period.
There's a lot more to this topic though.

Prophet Mohammed Saw was born under the shadow of false Jewish messianic hopes or he's what THEY desired but yet it fulfilled prophecy
So everything happens for a reason

Isa As was a secret amongst the promises ie the father of Maryam as prayed for a son and got a daughter..no one desired Isa AS in the prophecies. The Jews didn't want a guy like that.
So it's through him that the Jews "turn"
Ie they turn away from God and so they are punished but through this process Allah passed the deen to non-Jews inc the fulfillment of Ishmael's promise.
it could only come true whilst the Jews were in disobedience
That's why the wars between the Sassanids and byzantines, led to the creation of the judean state during the lifetime of prophet Saw
The Jews believed in a messiah Ben Joseph / suffering servant who would be killed.. and then a messiah Ben David who would appear to bring the messianic era
Messiah Ben Joseph was a man called "menahem ben hushiel"
His death marked the high point of their messianic hopes ie they were actually waiting for guess who? Menahem Ben amiel who is actually dajjal (but who they conceived of as their messiah)
He was meant to appear in Arabia as per the Isaiah 42 and Habakkuk 3 prophecies. So not only was the prophet Saw manifested from the shadow of Jewish messianic hopes it's actually dajjal they were supposed to receive.

So for me the arrival of dajjal Must coincide with the shadow of collective Muslim hopes ie the Mahdi version
 

DesertRose

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Ahh, will fix immediately.....
@AspiringSoul
I wonder why they are waiting for a different mahdi than the one mentioned in the hadith...?
"The promised Mahdi, who is usually mentioned in Shia Islam by his title of Imam-Al-Asr (the Imam of the "Period") and Sahib al-Zaman (the Lord of the Age), is the son of the eleventh Imam. His name is the same as that of the Prophet of Islam. According to Shia Islam, Mahdi was born in Samarra in 868 and until 872 when his father was martyred, lived under his father's care and tutelage. He was hidden from public view and only a few of the elite among the Shi’ah were able to meet him." Wikipedia
 
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DesertRose

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Prophet Muhammad (p) is a direct descendant of Ismael (p), the first son of Prophet Abraham (p), he was born in Makkah as a fulfillment of the prayer of Abraham (p).

And (remember) when the Lord of Ibrahim (Abraham) (i.e., Allah) tried him with (certain) Commands, which he fulfilled. He (Allah) said (to him), "Verily, I am going to make you a leader (Prophet) of mankind." (Ibrahim (Abraham)) said, "And of my offspring (to make leaders)." (Allah) said, "My Covenant (Prophethood, etc.) includes not Zalimoon (polytheists and wrong-doers).
{Holy Quran 2:124}
 
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So wait, does that mean Mahdi isn't real or something?
No what i'm saying is that there's a shia and a sunni Mahdi that are different.
The prophecy itself is one thing but our collective expectations also influence the way prophecy unfolds.
For example in the Quran Allah challenges the jews about the prophet where it calls him the 'ummi'
Now this is not a direct prophecy. It doesn't just say there's going to be a gentile prophet who will be the final prophet.
however a gentile prophet who has authority over jews (the way prophet saw did) could only happen if the messiah has been.

The scepter will not depart from Judah, nor the ruler's staff from between his feet, until he to whom it belongs shall come and the obedience of the nations shall be his.

In jewish minds this would literally mean that the true messiah would come and conquer the world before any one else could come.
Yet in the case of Jesus it isn't straight forward ie rather than conquer the world and make people follow him...people became Christian and then they became muslim...so in a roundabout way it's fulfilled but not directly and not how they expected it.
That's also in large part because there are competing prophecies and warnings which were being fulfilled at the same time.

Meanwhile the jews had rejected Jesus.were currently involved in war in Jerusalem and were now at odds on both sides with the Sassanids also pulling the plug on jews. Their messiah didn't come in Medina like how they had expected but instead an arab.

Basically who the prophet SAW was, is what the jews desired.
He brought revelation and the law. He conquered his enemies. Muslims defeated the sassanids and the byzantines and took the holy land. This is precisely what they'd wanted through their messiah and for themselves.

Im sure it'll play out the same with their messianic expectations again only this time at least one of our 'mahdi' archetypes has to be dajjal. The one in occultation is probably the one.
 
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