Where is commanded that I must believe Jesus is God?

[bible_student]

Well this topic has certainly run the gamut and gone off on some bunny trails. I think it can best be summed up by this article I found very interesting. I hope it can bring some unity among the Christians, despite our glaring doctrinal and theological differences.

http://www.auburn.edu/~allenkc/openhse/trinity2.html


As far as I am concerned this is enough to end the thread for me. Carry on if you all wish though....

That Jesus and the Father are of the same (of One) mind certainly makes complete sense. Jesus' Words in the Gospel of John certainly conveys that message. And that Christ wants all His followers to likewise be of one mind too. Not divided into divisions of organized religion, which the apostles including Paul also repeated.

1 Corinthians
1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Christ Jesus, that ye all speak the SAME thing, and [that] there be NO DIVISIONS among you; but [that] ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

 

[Alanantic]

"1 Corinthians
1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Christ Jesus, that ye all speak the SAME thing, and [that] there be NO DIVISIONS among you; but [that] ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. "

"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense." -- Buddha

"When goodness grows weak,
When evil increases,
I make myself a body.
In every age I come back
To deliver the holy,
To destroy the sin of the sinner,
To establish righteousness."

Krishna, Bhagavad Gita

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

@Alanantic

""Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense." -- Buddha"

Buddha here describes the frequent use by those who should know better of using one piece of string to measure another ;-)

 

[bible_student]

Objective morality is basically non-violence, after that it is pretty subjective. You may for example say consensual homosexual activity is immoral, while I will say it isn’t.

That's why The Law was sent down to mankind, from heaven (The Universe), and this was followed in history by examples of Judgment because of breaking it, which let everyone know that The Law is for real.

Every person if left to themselves would have their own ideas of what is moral and what is not moral. Therefore The Law was revealed to mankind and it sets the universal standard of what is considered moral and what is not.

For instance, there is the example of Sodom and Gomorrah, which cities were completely and utterly destroyed, along with the people who were in them, by Angels from heaven (The Universe) to serve as a reminder and a warning for future generations, to not make the same mistake that they did.

Jude
1:5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.
1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, He hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the Judgment of the Great Day.
1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal Fire.

 

[bible_student]

Daniel
9:25 Know therefore and understand, [that] from the going forth of the Commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince [shall be] seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

10:13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, the first of the chief princes [of God], came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.

10:21 But I will show thee that which is noted in the Scripture of Truth: and [there is] NONE that holdeth with me in these things, EXCEPT Michael your prince (Eno. 67:1; Rev. 5:3; 5; 9 & 12:7).

The Catholic Church authorities however, would probably claim this to be pure and utter heresy, despite the fact that it says this in the Bible, as it does not fit or agree with but goes completely against their most important and central doctrine of Catholicism, that all Catholics are obligated to believe.

 

[Colonel Valerio]

That's why The Law was sent down to mankind, from heaven (The Universe), and this was followed in history by examples of Judgment because of breaking it, which let everyone know that The Law is for real.

Every person if left to themselves would have their own ideas of what is moral and what is not moral. Therefore The Law was revealed to mankind and it sets the universal standard of what is considered moral and what is not.

For instance, there is the example of Sodom and Gomorrah, which cities were completely and utterly destroyed, along with the people who were in them, by Angels from heaven (The Universe) to serve as a reminder and a warning for future generations, to not make the same mistake that they did.

Jude
1:5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.
1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, He hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the Judgment of the Great Day.
1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal Fire.

Sodom and Gomorrah is myth. To be honest some aspects of Old Testament law is so harsh and cruel that it clearly doesn’t come from God but from men of an ancient society.

If there is any law as far as conduct goes it’s found in The Sermon on the Mount.

 

[bible_student]

Sodom and Gomorrah is myth. To be honest some aspects of Old Testament law is so harsh and cruel that it clearly doesn’t come from God but from men of an ancient society.

If there is any law as far as conduct goes it’s found in The Sermon on the Mount.

Jesus mentioned Sodom and Gomorrah specifically on multiple occasions, by name:

Matthew
10:15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the Day of Judgment, than for that city.

11:23 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell-fire: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.
11:24 But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in The Day of Judgment, than for thee.

Also in Mark 6:11, Luke 10:12, and 17:29-30:

17:29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed [them] all.
17:30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of Man is revealed.

As well as in Revelation, the Qur'an and it is also mentioned in many other books.

People today claim that it is a myth, because of not wanting to believe it. Society has gotten so bad and out of control, with the widespread loss of decency and decay of morality, that many people today think of things that are not normal, as if they were normal or acceptable, when they are not (right and wrong does not change with fashion, it always stays the same).

It may very well be that the location of the Dead Sea is where Sodom and Gomorrha used to be located, as many people today seem to believe. It does seem to potentially make a lot of sense, since the cavity in the ground that has now filled up with salty water, could have been created by the energy impact from the MASSIVE BLAST (that came from above) and that took them out. The name of it, being the "Dead Sea", would also be quite interesting, if that really is the location, considering.

Sodom and Gomorrah is also mentioned in the Dead Sea Scrolls, in a very detailed and interesting way. (Will post that if found, have to look for it).

 

[Colonel Valerio]

Jesus mentioned Sodom and Gomorrah specifically on multiple occasions, by name:

Matthew
10:15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the Day of Judgment, than for that city.

11:23 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell-fire: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.
11:24 But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in The Day of Judgment, than for thee.

Also in Mark 6:11, Luke 10:12, and 17:29-30:

17:29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed [them] all.
17:30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of Man is revealed.

As well as in Revelation, the Qur'an and it is also mentioned in many other books.

People today claim that it is a myth, because of not wanting to believe it. Society has gotten so bad and out of control, with the widespread loss of decency and decay of morality, that many people today think of things that are not normal, as if they were normal or acceptable, when they are not (right and wrong does not change with fashion, it always stays the same).

It may be that the location of the Dead Sea used to be where the were located, as some people believe. It might make potentially make sense, that the cavity in the ground, that is now filled up with salty water, was created by the MASSIVE BLAST (that came from above) that took them out. The name of it, being the "Dead Sea", would also be quite interesting, if that really is the location, considering.

Sodom and Gomorrah is also mentioned in the Dead Sea Scrolls, in a very detailed and interesting way. (Will post that if found, have to look for it).

Yeah doesn’t mean he wasn’t invoking it as myth but I’m not going to argue the point.

There is zero archaeological evidence for it or for the vast majority of OT claims.

 

[bible_student]

Scroll #3 Cave #3

"The Lord (Elohiem) instructed his Angels, both from the Morning and Evening Star, to assist Lot and his family to escape what was to befall the Cities of Sodom and Gomorrah. The Two Chosen ones instructed Lot and his family to drape themselves in white Garments (fine linen) and run away from the cities with great haste. Then a voice came from the darkening skies from on high and the other Heavenly Messengers, also from the Morning and Evening Star who rode in their chariots of fire saying unto all of them below, "Make haste because the judgment of Almighty God is about to fall upon these cities. We are prepared to obey His Voice and point our fire-spears towards the cities of sin and destroy them according to the Divine Will of the Father. Then a white light as bright as the sun blazed behind them and the Earth did shake with a mighty roar. The elements did separate as the cities of sin were leveled to the ground. The air above the Earth was filled with destructive dust and everyone including the ani[mals died(?)]

8. "The smoke rose into the heavenlies and did cloak the ground with destruction. Thus, the messengers, from the Stars did likewise accomplish their mission as their wheels returned to the skies where they rested with others in their home which was high above the Earth."

"She who was the wife of Lot, because of her disobedience, did turn around and gaze upon the destruction. She was turned into what appeared to be the salt of the land and the deadly destructive dust that clung over the Earth did indeed cause her life to cease. The smoke and vapor from the cities rose higher and higher as the cities were laid waste in the wilderness on the plains of Zoar that morning."

https://rense.com/general66/cave.htm

(The Morning and Evening Star, is the Planet Venus)

Job
38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
38:5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
38:6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
38:7 When the morning star's inhabitants sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

 

[TokiEl]

Sodom and Gomorrah is myth.

No it's not a myth and can be seen even today.


"The country of Sodom borders upon it.18 It was of old a most happy land, both for the fruits it bore and the riches of its cities: although it be now all burnt up. It is related19 how, for the impiety of its inhabitants, it was burnt by lightning. In consequence of which there are still the remainders of that divine fire, and the traces [or shadows] of the five cities are still to be seen: as well as the ashes growing in their fruits. Which fruits have a colour, as if they were fit to be eaten; but if you pluck them with your hands, they dissolve into smoke, and ashes. And thus what is related of this land of Sodom hath these marks of credibility, which our very sight affords us." - Josephus Of the War book IV ch 8 sction 4.

 

[Colonel Valerio]

No it's not a myth and can be seen even today.


"The country of Sodom borders upon it.18 It was of old a most happy land, both for the fruits it bore and the riches of its cities: although it be now all burnt up. It is related19 how, for the impiety of its inhabitants, it was burnt by lightning. In consequence of which there are still the remainders of that divine fire, and the traces [or shadows] of the five cities are still to be seen: as well as the ashes growing in their fruits. Which fruits have a colour, as if they were fit to be eaten; but if you pluck them with your hands, they dissolve into smoke, and ashes. And thus what is related of this land of Sodom hath these marks of credibility, which our very sight affords us." - Josephus Of the War book IV ch 8 sction 4.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/10/16/the-long-quest-to-find-the-biblical-cities-of-sodom-and-gomorrah/?utm_term=.3f53f2606611

 

[TokiEl]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/10/16/the-long-quest-to-find-the-biblical-cities-of-sodom-and-gomorrah/?utm_term=.3f53f2606611

You won't find truths in mass media.

 

[Colonel Valerio]

You won't find truths in mass media.

If you say so. It’s fairly obvious that it’s myth, and like most myths it has some basis in reality. Still the story is primarily about r*pe anyway, which as I stated is a concrete wrong.

I’m not going to waste anymore time or detail this thread further.