Where Did The Pre-tribulation Rapture Heresy Come From?

[Lisa]

Why are there so many interpretations about end times?

In this escatological matter, Christian leaders interpret some passages without analyzing the contexts behind them OR the texts that have no contexts at all (for example, Paul's letters), then they connects them with another same kind of verses.

The wise choice is wait-and-see.

Always question yourself, "What if [....]-trib is wrong?"

I did question the pre-trib and I do think that is a wrong doctrine. I think that people get taught doctrines and then when they decide to research them themselves..that's when they may change what they think. That's what happened to me. I asked God to show me where I believed lies...and I do believe I have the truth of the matter now. Though other Christians will disagree with me on that.

I don't know if the wait and see approach is correct. If you are waiting to see if pre trib is right..which a lot of people aren't, they just believe it...what happens then to those people who will be left here on earth? Won't they question their relationship with God? Since the pre-trib theory is that believers are taken before the trib and if they are left here...I think many will fall away from the faith at that point because that could be hard on ones faith. They were gonna be rescued and now are stuck and have to way to cope with it. I could be wrong about that, but many pre-tribbers that I've seen are really into the pre-trib thing.

 

[Tatilina]

It came from a crazy delusional woman who probably created it in her lucid dreaming.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

It came from a crazy delusional woman who probably created it in her lucid dreaming.

Margaret MacDonald?

I found this interesting on that one...

"When one closely examines MacDonald’s vision, it becomes clear that her vision could not have been a pretribulational one. MacDonald looked for a “fiery trial which is to try us,” and she foresaw the Church being purged by the Antichrist. Any pretribulation rapturist can tell you the Church will be removed before the advent of the Antichrist. John Bray, an anti-rapturist, said himself that Margaret MacDonald was teaching a single coming of our Lord Jesus. This contradicts current rapture doctrine, which teaches a two-staged event – first, Christ coming for His Church and second, seven years later His return to earth. With so many contradictions between MacDonald’s vision and today’s pretribulationism, it is difficult to see any linkage."

From http://www.raptureready.com/2016/07/19/margaret-macdonald-is-not-the-mother-of-the-pre-tribulation-rapture/

 

[Tatilina]

Yeah that woman.

 

[Thunderian]

I think that people get taught doctrines and then when they decide to research them themselves..that's when they may change what they think.

That's what happened to me. I used to believe the same as you, but after studying it, I couldn't make that belief work with what scripture was saying.

 

[Tatilina]

That's what happened to me. I used to believe the same as you, but after studying it, I couldn't make that belief work with what scripture was saying.

Yeah but when I went from pre-trib to post-trib (and now nothing at all xD) that's what all the post tribbies said to pre tribbers. Because most pro tribbers were pre tribberst at one time and pre wrathers were also pre tribbers. They all make that claim lol.

 

[Tatilina]

You ever heard of the facebook group "The three views on the rapture"
https://m.facebook.com/groups/260349310051?tsid=0.5115766580579589&source=typeahead

I spent years and years in that group. They go hard at it there for anyone interested in heavy duty theology debate.

 

[cajun]

I never heard of her (Margaret MacDonald). I only noticed that there is a very different social culture in the churches that hold to the pre-trib doctrine and it wasn't pretty. Of course, I was a well-educated former Catholic (pre VatII) who spent a few years in the church-of-the-month club so I was looking at it differently from someone who was raised pre-Trib. What the Catholic Church used to teach was that Revelation presents us wiith a mystery that we must not attempt to understand. I think we were taught "imminent Rapture" and of course Tribulation was considered to be already upon us. Then when I was in the Assembly of God I was surprised after years of membership when they suddenly went hard-line and began to eject anyone who did not swear loyalty to pre-Trib. There was also a distinct change in the leadership at that time and I left for other churches. While I was in the AofG I did attend the classes on Rapture and took the attitude that we'll know when the time comes. That was years ago, before the signs we see today were happening in the world and so there was no urgency.

But that sudden change in policy in the AofG did get my attention. After that I noticed that other churches that teach pre-Wrath or other interpretations seem comfortable wiith just giving the lessons and letting people absorb it. It didn't become a litmus test.

Since then I've wondered about the motivation for such a hard-line in some churches and I think some spiritual mischief is afoot. I think the Devil wants to corner as many Christians as he can into such a rigid pre-Trib belief that they can't allow themselves to accept fellowship wiith Trib Preppers at all. That way if the para- or post-Tribs are right, they will have a crisis of faith. If, on the other hand, the pre-Tribbers allow for the possibility of being wrong they will not be shaken in their faith.

Of course if they are right then the worst I face is not getting to eat all that beef jerky and powdered milk

Really, we are in the times of the Trumpets. I knew that when I saw Chernobyl happen. That's when I really started to dig into this subject. And now that the fifth Trumpet, the hornets, is ready, I know we all must be ready, too.

(The fifth Trumpet of the hornets has not sounded yet, but in January the Pentagon announced that it has successfully tested a swarm of 200 nanodrones and it is ready to deploy them.)

 

[Tatilina]

Most pretribbers are big snobs that think if you don't believe in pre-trib that you are not saved and will be left behind lol.

 

[JoChris]

Cajun ironically it is messages from self-proclaimed New Agers, and writings claimed to be a result of channeling i.e. recordings of people while possessed by evil spirits* that made me open to the doctrine of the Rapture before even hearing it preached upon properly. I always seemed to find the error before the Truth. Call it doing things the hard way!

* forecasted the removal of people/ teleporting into other space dimensions who are narrow-minded, who will not embrace the New Leader who is going to save mankind

Edit:
Typing that though jogged my memory and I searched a bit. There are also Christian apologists who have shown other material that has "the guides" saying people who are not open-minded will be "cleansed". Some say that is due to Christians being raptured and therefore that's demons making excuses for the disappearance of many people, others like yourself says that's end-time persecution being promised by demons themselves.

 

[cajun]

Cajun ironically it is messages from self-proclaimed New Agers, and writings claimed to be a result of channeling i.e. recordings of people while possessed by evil spirits* that made me open to the doctrine of the Rapture before even hearing it preached upon properly. I always seemed to find the error before the Truth. Call it doing things the hard way!

* forecasted the removal of people/ teleporting into other space dimensions who are narrow-minded, who will not embrace the New Leader who is going to save mankind

Edit:
Typing that though jogged my memory and I searched a bit. There are also Christian apologists who have shown other material that has "the guides" saying people who are not open-minded will be "cleansed". Some say that is due to Christians being raptured and therefore that's demons making excuses for the disappearance of many people, others like yourself says that's end-time persecution being promised by demons themselves.

I'm not sure I follow what you're saying in the last part. I'm not saying anything except that our beliefs about the Rapture seem to affect our behavior towards the problem of living in the End Times. The Tribulation itself is a separate topic insofar as it is a very complex and multifaceted set of events.

Some of the Tribulation is due to direct persecution but I think a lot of it is due to our growing incompatibility wiith worldly culture, which is growing exponentially.

I mean seriously: I could never have imagined as I was growing up that it would become a routine--ROUTINE-- matter to remind myself to research certain brands of groceries to see if they contain derivatives of human tissue taken from murdered babies!

Yet, when you review the list of common brands that use additives from the Senomyx company you see that we have become a cannibal culture. (Senomyx has a patented process for developing enhanced flavor additives that uses human foetal kidney tissues. This is not the only use of human remains in products we consume.)

Now the efforts of New Agers and others to come up wiith their own Rapture theories simply confirms that the demonic world knows that the time is so near that it cannot deny what we see. It can only try to confuse and mislead us, like a small child who goes from denying that he broke a vase to inventing stories about how the vase got broken.

Some Christian apologists could be mixing a lot of New Age material wiith Apocalyptic events because there has been so much room for conjecture in the past. But that fog will certainly clear as the Return of Jesus approaches.

 

[Lisa]

That's what happened to me. I used to believe the same as you, but after studying it, I couldn't make that belief work with what scripture was saying.

You used to believe pre wrath? Interesting!

 

[Thunderian]

You used to believe pre wrath? Interesting!

Not pre-wrath, but not pre-trib, either. I wasn't sure what I believed, but I was under the impression that Christians would go through the Tribulation.

 

[JoChris]

I'm not sure I follow what you're saying in the last part. I'm not saying anything except that our beliefs about the Rapture seem to affect our behavior towards the problem of living in the End Times. The Tribulation itself is a separate topic insofar as it is a very complex and multifaceted set of events.

Some of the Tribulation is due to direct persecution but I think a lot of it is due to our growing incompatibility wiith worldly culture, which is growing exponentially.

I mean seriously: I could never have imagined as I was growing up that it would become a routine--ROUTINE-- matter to remind myself to research certain brands of groceries to see if they contain derivatives of human tissue taken from murdered babies!

Yet, when you review the list of common brands that use additives from the Senomyx company you see that we have become a cannibal culture. (Senomyx has a patented process for developing enhanced flavor additives that uses human foetal kidney tissues. This is not the only use of human remains in products we consume.)

Now the efforts of New Agers and others to come up wiith their own Rapture theories simply confirms that the demonic world knows that the time is so near that it cannot deny what we see. It can only try to confuse and mislead us, like a small child who goes from denying that he broke a vase to inventing stories about how the vase got broken.

Some Christian apologists could be mixing a lot of New Age material wiith Apocalyptic events because there has been so much room for conjecture in the past. But that fog will certainly clear as the Return of Jesus approaches.

Sorry. I was saying that the Christian apologists interpreted what had been (allegedly) said by demons according to their own particular End-Time viewpoint. They are the agents of confusion for sure.
I saw that clearly when I started reading the bible again. The contrast between spiritual light and darkness is huge.

P.S. They add that to additives?! I had no idea.

 

[Lisa]

Not pre-wrath, but not pre-trib, either. I wasn't sure what I believed, but I was under the impression that Christians would go through the Tribulation.

I see, haha and I went the other way.

 

[cajun]

Sorry. I was saying that the Christian apologists interpreted what had been (allegedly) said by demons according to their own particular End-Time viewpoint. They are the agents of confusion for sure.
I saw that clearly when I started reading the bible again. The contrast between spiritual light and darkness is huge.

P.S. They add that to additives?! I had no idea.

If you want to know more about the rise of cannibalism in our culture, google the words
--> flavor enhancers, foetal tissue <--
and you will ser lots of articles, starting wiith a Snopes vlaim that this is false but if you read the Snopes article they admit that the tissues are used in the process of making the products although they are not directly mixed into the final product. Below the Snopes you will see all kinds of articles and you can even look up the Senomyx patent on using foetal kidney cells. It is a public record.
I have changed my shopping habits to avoid almost all processed foods because it's too hard to try to keep up with the list of companies using these products. I think the Holy Spirit is convicting me as a Christian to encourage others to also examine their entanglement with this Satanic society. This problem is as much a reason for prepping as any fear of persecution.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

On the subject of prepping, I watched this one this morning about spiritual preparation for the onslaught by the Pope on Protestant denominations... I don't wish to offend anyone here but the reformation happened for a reason...

 

[cajun]

There is just as much pagan ignorance and heresies among all Christians as there is in the Catholic church. And FYI that guy Francis is considered a usurper by many Catholics. Those who still go to Mass are aware that Pope Benedict XVI never actually resigned and it is very strongly believed that he was forced aside because he was taking steps to correct the Church's apostasy.

But of course nothing he could do will undo the damage of so many centuries.

The only difference between the spiritual corruption of the Catholic Church and the Protestants is longevity.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

There is just as much pagan ignorance and heresies among all Christians as there is in the Catholic church. And FYI that guy Francis is considered a usurper by many Catholics. Those who still go to Mass are aware that Pope Benedict XVI never actually resigned and it is very strongly believed that he was forced aside because he was taking steps to correct the Church's apostasy.

But of course nothing he could do will undo the damage of so many centuries.

The only difference between the spiritual corruption of the Catholic Church and the Protestants is longevity.

I think you make some good points here... There are real Christians who look to Jesus for salvation in both Catholic and Protestant denominations. There are also those who just go to Church!!!!

I don't think many Christian Catholics or Christian Protestants will support Pope Francis... But I do think he will gather together many people from other faiths.

 

[cajun]

He's just a media pop star. Best to just ignore him.