Where Did Jesus Say, “I Am God; Worship Me”?

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The words in the hadith are clear. You can deny what they say, but it is rather tacky for you to try to accuse me of dishonesty on my clear and accurate post.

On many forums I would report that type of useless smear diversion.

You are quoting a mistranslation of the Hebrew 'in vain' idiom. Most all the Jewish translations get this right, and the Geneva and AV also had very learned Hebraists. Modern 'Christian' translations often mangle the OT text.

Jeremiah 8:8 (AV)
How do ye say, We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us?
Lo, certainly in vain made he it; the pen of the scribes is in vain.
Clear? You blind fool the hadith I shared were very clear in explaining that the prophet didn't reject the Torah. I specifically shared hadith even proven that the prophet held a Torah, places it in a pillow and said "I believe in thee" He rejected interpretations which the Jews used to share with Muslims. Even you and Jesus disagree with Jewish interpretations. The key difference is Muslims weren't reading the Torah they were reading interpretations and translations by Jews yet again. .
You just say stupid shit and expect me to be kind.

You are now clutching at straws. God there are too man dumb fucks on these crappy forums.
 






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Report me...you should be more worried about the stupid things you're saying.

Here are the translations
The meaning is blatantly clear here.

Lol it's so ironic you're saying this verse is mistranslated.

Smh. Id treat you with respect it you accepted you were wrong on what you accused Mohammed of.
You're accusing him of attacking the Torah despite the evidence I posted..not even trying to acknowledge it. That tells me you came on here in a last ditch attempt to silence Muslims and here you are now getting spanked.

If it helps I'll prob get banned soon anyway. Then you can talk all the bollocks you want.
 






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it always feels like you guys have ulterior motives and are dishonest to the core, so even speaking 'the truth' will be a waste of time...
still for anyone genuine here...the highlighted bit doesn't diss the Torah of the jews, but their interpretations which they would recite to the muslims in arabic.

Narrated Abu Huraira: The people of the Scripture (Jews) used to recite the torah in Hebrew and they used to explain it in arabic to the Muslims. On that Allah's Apostle said, "Do not believe the people of the Scripture or disbelieve them, but say:-- "We believe in Allah and what is revealed to us." (2.136) (Book #60, Hadith #12)

now on this
Do not believe the people of the Scripture or disbelieve them
it's because to 'disbelieve them' could in turn lead to disbelieving in something that is true, since the ave muslim wasnt to know what was true or false from the bible.

Narrated Ubaidullah: Ibn 'Abbas said, "Why do you ask the people of the scripture about anything while your Book (Quran) which has been revealed to Allah's Apostle is newer and the latest? You read it pure, undistorted and unchanged, and Allah has told you that the people of the scripture (Jews and Christians) changed their scripture and distorted it, and wrote the scripture with their own hands and said, 'It is from Allah,' to sell it for a little gain. Does not the knowledge which has come to you prevent you from asking them about anything? No, by Allah, we have never seen any man from them asking you regarding what has been revealed to you!"

do jews believe in Jesus? nope
is he in the scriptures? YES.
in fact, one of the biggest prophecies about Jesus in the OT is the 'Book of Wisdom' which btw was part of the OT in the time of Jesus himself. It means Jesus and his mother and the apostles all used to read it. The jews omitted it and now it's only in the catholic bible collection, the protestants don't even accept it. If you read the first 3 chapters (esp chapter 2) i do wonder how christiansd could be so dumb to literally trash that, when it is literally a prophecy about Jesus, one of the most obvious ones ive ever read.

if i was listening to jewish interpretations they'd be telling me something else entirely.
for example in the middle ages, the jewish teacher Maimonaides actually quoted a passage from Daniel which in it's true context foretold the maccabean revolt era...and he linked it to Jesus instead. that was a blatant misinterpretation he did knowingly, esp since there is already a jewish text called 'the book of Maccabees' where they acknowledged those verses from Daniel being fulfilled in that era by the maccabees.

'writing with their own hands' again does refer to the interpretations..
in fact, id argue that muslim interpretations/tafsir are similarly guilty of altering the very meaning of various quranic verses.
seriously, there is one verse, 17:103(or it could be 104) where we're told that the Israelites will be gathered to the holy land before the end (as in the messianic kingdom), but some muslim translations and interpretations altered the meaning to something else.
i have exposed this many times on this forum btw.


Narrated Abdullah Ibn Umar: A group of Jews came and invited the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) to Quff. So he visited them in their school. They said: AbulQasim, one of our men has committed fornication with a woman; so pronounce judgment upon them. They placed a cushion for the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) who sat on it and said: Bring the torah. It was then brought. He then withdrew the cushion from beneath him and placed the torah on it saying: I believed in thee and in Him Who revealed thee. He then said: Bring me one who is learned among you. Then a young man was brought. The transmitter then mentioned the rest of the tradition of stoning similar to the one transmitted by Malik from Nafi'(No. 4431). (Book #38, Hadith #4434)

clearly this doesnt suggest Mohammad rejected the Torah..he rejected the jewish interpretations and even then he was careful in outright rejecting them since they could be speaking the truth. instead he told muslims to just stick to the Quran to avoid error, which is totally fair.


there are of course numerous verses in the Quran confirming the authenticity/truth of the Torah.
the IRONY is that the very verses in the Quran alluding to said 'corruption' are yet again blatantly written such a way in the interpretations/translations, in reality those do not refer to the actual core text, but to the interpretations
so you've got muslims guilty of the same sin literally as they're writing their interpretation..

remember jeremiah says 'the lying pen of the scribe', the scribes were the interpetors. THAT is what is really the issue here, it isnt the text.
in fact my logic to this is that IF the torah was corrupt, then Jesus would have said so, he didn't, so i have no issue with it.
IF the torah was later altered, post christianity, then the christians and the jews would have clear differences...and im sure there are very minor ones only in translations, but otherwise it is all the same.

still there are clear contradictions, not just between the Quran and the Torah, but even within the torah, it contradicts itself and falls short on many things
rather than attack the bible, i put it down to MYTHOS and that esp includes the Genesis creation story, which is otherwise absurd...
but there's a wisdom behind the mythos..
hence the Quran always says that Allah revealed 'the BOOK AND THE HIKMAH/WISDOM' (to the prophets).


Can't believe these people ignored the hadith I was sharing.
 






Steven Avery

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It is easy for hadiths to contradict each other, I simply showed the one that attacks the text of the Bible as corrupt.

==============

If you want to be informed on Jeremiah 8:8, here is a good help, but if you are sincere and informed you would have to drop the "lying scribes" attempt.

Jeremiah 8:8 "the pen of the scribes is in vain" - the Muslims & Bogus bibles
Will Kinney
https://brandplucked.webs.com/jeremiah88penscribes.htm

And I wrote a lot about this c. 2008, I think Will incorporated some of my studies.

=======================

Yes, I put the report in.
And the second one with the curse word.
 






Joined
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It is easy for hadiths to contradict each other, I simply showed the one that attacks the text of the Bible as corrupt.

==============

If you want to be informed on Jeremiah 8:8, here is a good help, but if you are sincere and informed you would have to drop the "lying scribes" attempt.

Jeremiah 8:8 "the pen of the scribes is in vain" - the Muslims & Bogus bibles
Will Kinney
https://brandplucked.webs.com/jeremiah88penscribes.htm

And I wrote a lot about this c. 2008, I think Will incorporated some of my studies.

=======================

Yes, I put the report in.
And the second one with the curse word.


I'm telling you clearly that what you quoted from the hadith didn't actually attack the Torah/bible. You're insisting it does because that's the narrative you wish to push. I doubt you're truely interested in 'the truth of the matter' because in my experience few people really are.

To get a better idea you'd have to look at the wider story within that hadith. You can't just take one hadith out of context if there are others explaining it with more detail.
these are the accounts of what people witnessed passed on, so sometimes one guy might say
"the prophet SAW said xyz"
and another will say
"such and such thing happened, then the prophet said abc and xyz"

why are you playing ignorant here? seriously mate, we're all going to die and get judged, so stop fking around with this.

i'm one of the few muslims who for the past 10 yrs+ has consistently defended the bible from any attacks from muslims. My whole argument is based around what is in the Quran AND THE HADITH, otherwise why would i go through the trouble? do you think i want to be your mate or some shit? i dont give a single fk about any christian. i hold my views because im true to myself and my thought process. i don't buy into what other people tell me, i dont respect their views when they're clearly wrong.


so let me go back again..
here's what you quoted



O community of Muslims, how is it that you seek wisdom from the People of the Book? Your book, brought down upon His Prophet—blessings and peace of God upon him—is the latest report about God. You read a Book that has not been distorted, but the People of the Book, as God related to you, exchanged that which God wrote [for something else], changing the book with their hands. 1
1. al-Bukhârî, Sahlh, K. al-Shahädät, 29 (Beirut: Dâr al-Kutub al-'Ilmiyya, 1420/1999)


notice it says
seek wisdom from the People of the Book?
it doesn't say 'the Book' but the people ie the rabbis.

You read a Book that has not been distorted, but the People of the Book, as God related to you, exchanged that which God wrote [for something else], changing the book with their hands.
this doesn't say the Torah itself is corrupt, it only suggests what the jews had written and said 'is from God' cannot be trusted.

after that i followed up with a few other hadith related to this story.

Narrated Abu Huraira: The people of the Scripture (Jews) used to recite the torah in Hebrew and they used to explain it in arabic to the Muslims. On that Allah's Apostle said, "Do not believe the people of the Scripture or disbelieve them, but say:-- "We believe in Allah and what is revealed to us." (2.136) (Book #60, Hadith #12)

this is self explanatory. the scribes used to write interpretations in arabic for the arabs.

Narrated Ubaidullah: Ibn 'Abbas said, "Why do you ask the people of the scripture about anything while your Book (Quran) which has been revealed to Allah's Apostle is newer and the latest? You read it pure, undistorted and unchanged, and Allah has told you that the people of the scripture (Jews and Christians) changed their scripture and distorted it, and wrote the scripture with their own hands and said, 'It is from Allah,' to sell it for a little gain. Does not the knowledge which has come to you prevent you from asking them about anything? No, by Allah, we have never seen any man from them asking you regarding what has been revealed to you!"

this isn't a diss against THE Torah, but what the rabbis had written (interpretations and translations).

Correct meif im wrong, but the jews till this day disagree with the christians on the prophecies. So for example if i ask a jewish guy about Daniel 9, he has a whole different version of events..and im like 'nah you're wrong on this, this was Jesus, the timeline connects' and he'll say something else. So how could i trust jewish interpretations? so you clearly see the actual context going back to the hadith ive shared already

The people of the Scripture (Jews) used to recite the torah in Hebrew and they used to explain it in arabic to the Muslims

now the hadith ive shared does say
"Do not believe the people of the Scripture or disbelieve them, but say:-- "We believe in Allah and what is revealed to us."

in the interpretations of this hadith, the reasoning given was that if muslims were to openly reject what the jews were teaching, it may be they reject something that was actually from God...and vice versa. So muslims were told to just stick to the Quran and avoid the whole problem.

i even followed this up with this hadith


Narrated Abdullah Ibn Umar: A group of Jews came and invited the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) to Quff. So he visited them in their school. They said: AbulQasim, one of our men has committed fornication with a woman; so pronounce judgment upon them. They placed a cushion for the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) who sat on it and said: Bring the torah. It was then brought. He then withdrew the cushion from beneath him and placed the torah on it saying: I believed in thee and in Him Who revealed thee. He then said: Bring me one who is learned among you. Then a young man was brought. The transmitter then mentioned the rest of the tradition of stoning similar to the one transmitted by Malik from Nafi'(No. 4431). (Book #38, Hadith #4434)

this is consistent with the overall message..
the Torah could be trusted, but any interpretation or dodgy translation couldnt be trusted entirely, so much so that muslims could neither accept nor reject it..they could only avoid it.
 






A Freeman

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King of kings' Bible - Jeremiah 8:7-13
8:7 Yea, the stork in the heaven knoweth her appointed times; and the turtle and the crane and the swallow observe the time of their coming; but My people know not the Judgment of the "I AM".
8:8 How do ye say, We [are] wise, and The Law of the "I AM" [is] with us? Lo, certainly in vain made He [it]; the pen of the scribes [is] in vain.
8:9 The wise [men] are ashamed, they are dismayed and taken: lo, they have rejected the Word of the "I AM"; and what wisdom [is] in them?
8:10 Therefore will I give their wives unto others, [and] their fields to them that shall inherit [them]: for every one from the least even unto the greatest is given to covetousness, from the prophet even unto the priest every one dealeth falsely.
8:11 For they have healed the hurt of the daughter of My people slightly, saying, Peace, peace; when [there is] no peace.
8:12 Were they ashamed when they had committed abomination? nay, they were not at all ashamed, neither could they blush: therefore shall they fall among them that fall: in the time of their punishment they shall be cast down, saith the "I AM".

Revelation 14:1-4

14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the Mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty [and] four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
14:2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many "waters", and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
14:3 And they sung as it were a New Song (Isaiah 42:10) before the Throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that "Song" except the hundred [and] forty [and] four thousand, which were redeemed from the Earth.
14:4 These are they which were not corrupted by women; for they are pure. These are they which follow the Lamb wheresoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, [being] the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb (obeying God NOT women).
 






A Freeman

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Ignorance isn't bliss; it's just ignorance

Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ the Nazarite, whom ye crucified, WHOM GOD RAISED FROM THE DEAD, [even] by him doth this man stand here before you whole. THIS is the Stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the Head of the Corner (Matt. 21:42). Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.”
--Acts 4:10-12

2000 years ago, a miracle child was born to a virgin, to set Him apart from everyone else, so people would take notice of Him and HEAR Him (Mark 9:7).

The miracle birth of Jesus to the virgin Mary is prophesied in the Old Covenant (Isa. 7:14), fulfilled and recorded in the New Covenant (Matt. 1:18-23, Luke 1:27-35), and CONFIRMED in the Koran (Sura 3:42-47, 19:16-37). We literally changed the way we keep time on this planet because of this miracle. Who then could do more wrong than to ignore such Clear Signs from our Lord?

B.C. = Before Christ
A.D. = Anno Domini = in the year of our Lord

Similarly, the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus is prophesied in the Old Covenant (Ps. 22, Isa. 53:1-11, Dan. 9:25-27, Zech. 11:11-13) and New Covenant (Matt. 12:39-40, 20:17-19, 26:2, Mark 9:31, 10:32-34), fulfilled and recorded in the New Covenant (Matt. 27, Mark 15:17-16:8, John 19:14-21:25), and CONFIRMED in the Koran (Sura 3:55, 4:157-158, 6:122, 19:33-34).

We also have recorded in the Bible, which the Koran was sent to CONFIRM (not to contradict), a list of eyewitnesses to both the crucifixion and resurrection.

Witnesses to the crucifixion of Jesus:

– Joseph of Arimathaea, Jesus' great-uncle, who claimed the body (Matt. 27:57-60, Mark 15:43-46, Luke 23:50-53, John 19:38)

– Mary Magdelene, and Mary, the mother of Jesus (Matt. 27:55-56, Mark 15:40, 15:47, John 19:25-27)

– The mother of Zebedee's children (Matt. 27:56)

– John, the disciple of Jesus (John 19:25-27, 19:35)

– And all Jesus' acquaintances (Luke 23:49)


Witnesses of the resurrected Jesus:

-- Mary Magdelene (Matt. 28:9-10, John 20:15-18)

-- Mary, the mother of Jesus (Matt. 28:9-10)

-- Simon, the pharisee and Alphaeus Cleophas (Luke 24:13-32)

-- The eleven disciples (Luke 24:33-51, John 20:19-30)

-- Simon Peter, Thomas, Nathanael, James and John (the sons of Zebedee) and two other disciples on another occasion (John 21)

Despite the perfect agreement between the Bible and the Koran on the miracle virgin-birth of Jesus, despite the numerous references within the Bible and Koran concerning the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus – which likewise are in perfect agreement IF properly understood – despite the documented accounts of dozens of eyewitnesses by multiple authors, despite over 121 secular, non-Biblical citations for Jesus outside the New Covenant/Testament that confirm the details of Jesus’ life, death, and resurrection in Jerusalem during the same period the events in the New Covenant/Testament are described, despite dozens of COMMANDS in the Koran to read and believe the Bible, despite the Koran itself plainly stating it was sent to CONFIRM the Bible, and despite numerous warnings in the Koran against becoming an UNBELIEVER, by picking and choosing which Apostles to believe (Sura 4:150-152), what do “Muslims” do?

They ignore God's Messengers and pretend the crucifixion and resurrection never happened.

This is what the Koran actually teaches about the crucifixion and about God raising Jesus from the dead after being buried for 3 days and 3 nights (Sura 3:42-55):

Sura 3:45, 48-55
3:45. Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! God giveth thee glad tidings of The Word (John 1:1-5) from Him: he will be called Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those NEAREST to God.

3:48. And GOD WILL TEACH HIM The Book (Old Covenant) and Wisdom, The Law (The Torah) and The Gospel (John 5:20-21, John 7:15-19, Sura 7:157-158),
3:49. And (appoint him) an Apostle to the Children of Israel, (with this message): "'I have come to you, with a Sign from your Lord, in that I make for you out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, and breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by God's leave: and I HEAL THOSE BORN BLIND (John 9), and the lepers, and I enliven the dead, by God's leave and I declare to you what ye eat, and what ye store in your houses. SURELY therein is a Sign for you if ye did believe;
3:50. (I have come to you), to affirm The Law which was before me (Matt. 5:17-20). And to make lawful to you part of what was (before) forbidden to you (Eph. 2:15, Col. 2:14); I have come to you WITH A SIGN FROM YOUR LORD (Matt. 12:39-40). So fear God, and obey me (John 14:15, 21-24).
3:51. It is God Who is my Lord and your Lord (John 20:17) then worship Him. This is The Way that is Straight' (Matt.7:13-14, John 14:6)."
3:52. When Jesus found Unbelief on their part he said: "Who will be My helpers to (the work of) God." Said the disciples: "We are God's helpers: we believe in God, and do thou bear witness that we are "True in Faith".
3:53. Our Lord! we believe in what Thou hast revealed, and we follow the Messenger (John 1:14, 5:24); then write us down among those who bear witness (Luke 24:48, Acts 1:8, 2:32, 3:15, 5:32)."
3:54. And (the unbelievers) plotted and planned, and God too planned, and the best of planners is God.
3:55. Behold! GOD SAID: "O Jesus! I will take thee and RAISE THEE to Myself and clear thee (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme*; I will make those who follow thee SUPERIOR to those who reject faith, to The Day of Resurrection: then shall ye all return unto Me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute.

*Note well: those who falsely claim Jesus wasn't crucified and raised by God from the dead after 3 days and 3 nights, are committing blasphemy by calling God a liar.

Sura 4:157-159
4:157. That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ the son of Mary, the Messenger of God";- but they killed Christ not, nor crucified Christ (John 1:10), but so it was made to appear to them (as they crucified the human body called Jesus, that Christ the spirit-being used - Psalm 22; Isaiah 52:13 to 54:1; Zechariah 11:10-13; Matthew 27), and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) Knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed Christ not:-
4:158. NAY, GOD RAISED HIM UP UNTO HIMSELF and God is Exalted in Power, and in Wisdom;-
4:159. And, of the People of The Book, they all MUST believe him (Christ) before their death; and on The Day of Judgment he will be a witness against them (and you) (Sura 43:61);-

Note well: Sura 4:157 is probably the most misunderstood verse in the Koran. IF it is read properly, it provides us with CLEAR SIGNS AND CONVINCING PROOF that The Messiah/Christ, the immortal spirit-Being incarnating Jesus (John 1:14, Sura 2:87, Sura 2:253, Sura 5:113) was NOT crucified; but JESUS WAS CRUCIFIED AND RAISED FROM THE DEAD BY GOD HIMSELF, as it says throughout the Bible and Koran, including in the very next verse (Sura 4:158).

Further confirmation of the crucifixion, death and resurrection of Jesus:-
Sura 6:122. Can he who was dead (Jesus – Matt. 27:50-54, Mark 15:37-39, Luke 23:44-47, John 19:30-42) to whom We gave life (Matt. 28:5-10, Mark 16:6-8, Luke 24, John 20), and a Light (John 3:19-21, John 8:3) with which he walks amongst men (Christ), be like him who is in the depths of darkness (Lucifer), from which he can never come out? Thus to those without Faith their own deeds seem pleasing (Deut. 4:28, Matt. 6:5).

Excerpts from Sura 19:16-37, about Mary, the virgin birth, and Jesus:
19:19. He said: "Nay, I am only a messenger from thy Lord, (to announce) to thee the gift of an HOLY SON (Rev. 15:4, Sura 59:23, Sura 62:1)."

19:27. At length she brought the (babe) to her people, carrying him (in her arms). They said: "O Mary! Truly an amazing thing hast thou brought!

19:33. So Peace is on me the day I was born, THE DAY THAT I DIE, AND THE DAY THAT I SHALL BE RAISED UP TO LIFE (again)!"
19:34. SUCH (WAS) JESUS THE SON OF MARY: (IT IS) A STATEMENT OF TRUTH, about which they (vainly) dispute.
19:35. It is not befitting to (the Majesty of) "I AM" that He should beget a (human) son. Glory be to Him! When He determines a matter, He only says to it, "Be", and it is.
19:36. Verily "I AM" is my Lord and your Lord: Him therefore serve ye: this is The Way that is straight.
19:37. But the sects differ among themselves: and woe to the Unbelievers because of the (coming) Judgment of a Momentous Day!
19:38. How plainly will they see and hear, the Day that they will appear before Us! But the unjust today are clearly in error!

Note well: the word “beget” in this context means to procreate through sexual intercourse. God is NOT a human (Num. 23:19, Hos. 11:9, John 4:24), and therefore does NOT have human children. He did however CREATE the Angels (Spirit-Beings) which are referred to as the Sons of God (the immortal spirit-Beings, NOT the humans they incarnate – Sura 9:30).

Jesus, WAS the mortal human son (“Son of Man”), born of the virgin body of Mary. Christ, the immortal Spirit-Being, IS the Firstborn/First-created Son of God. Together they formed the human+Being referred to as Jesus+Christ. It is The Messiah/Christ that is prophesied to return in a new body (Gen. 49:10, 22-24) with a new name (Rev. 2:17, 3:12, 19:12) just before the Last Day (Mal. 4, Sura 43:61), NOT Jesus.

Until these irrefutable FACTS are clearly understood and no longer ignored, so-called Muslims (unbelievers really) will continue to vainly dispute against God and His Messenger, until they too find themselves in The Fire, exactly as the Koran warns us at least 300 times.
 






A Freeman

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Can't believe these people ignored the hadith I was sharing.
Everyone should ignore the satanic Hadith, which both the Koran (Quran) and Muhammad CONDEMNED already hundreds of years ago.

Throughout the Old Covenant (where God's Law is found), New Covenant and Koran, we are warned NOT to join/partner any man-made “oral traditions” with God's Message of Truth, regardless of whatever irrelevant “chains of transmission” they may claim to have.

Sura 5:4. Forbidden to you (for food) are: dead meat (Lev. 22:8, Deut. 14:21), blood (Lev. 3:17, Lev. 17:10-11), the flesh of swine (Deut. 14:8), and that on which hath been invoked the name of other than "I AM" (Num. 25:1-3); that which hath been killed by strangling, or by a violent blow, or by a headlong fall, or by being gored to death; that which hath been (partly) eaten by a wild animal (Lev. 22:8); unless ye are able to slaughter it (in due form) that which is sacrificed on stone (altars); (forbidden) also is the division (of meat) by raffling with arrows: that is impiety. This day have those who reject Faith given up all hope of your religion: yet fear them not, but fear Me (Matt. 10:28). THIS DAY* I have perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for YOU, submission to My will, as your religion (Matt. 6:9-13). But if any is forced by hunger, with no inclination to transgression, "I AM" is indeed Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

*This leaves absolutely NO wiggle room for men to fabricate additional sayings allegedly attributed to Muhammad AFTER the Koran, like Muhammad al-Bukhari “compiled” over 200 years after Muhammad Mustafa's death.

God even made sure that if someone did read the Hadith they would find Muhammad specifically instructed those around him NOT to write anything from him except the Koran (Quran).

Ibn Saeed Al-Khudry reported that God's messenger had said:
"Do not write anything from me EXCEPT QURAN. Anyone who wrote anything other than the Quran shall erase it."

From Ibn Hanbal: Zayd Ibn Thabit (The apostle's closest revelation writer) visited the Khalifa Mu'aawiyah (more than 30 years after the apostle's death), and told him a story about the apostle. Mu'aawiyah liked the story and ordered someone to write it down. But Zayd said:
"the messenger of God ordered us NEVER to write anything of his hadith"

The famous book "Ulum Al-Hadith" by Ibn Al-Salah, reports a hadith by Abu Hurayra in which Abu Hurayra said the messenger of God came out to us while we were writing his hadiths and said:
"What are you writing?" We said: "Hadiths that we hear from you, messenger of God." He said: "A book other than the book of God ?!" We said: "Should we talk about you?" He said: “Talk about me, that would be fine, but those who will lie will go to Hell.” Abu Hurayra said: “we collected what we wrote of Hadiths and burned them in fire”.

Ibn Hanbal in his Musnad book, narrates a hadith in which Abdullah Ibn Omar said that the messenger of God one day came out to us as if he was going to depart us soon and said: "When I depart you (die), hold to the book of God, prohibit what it prohibits and accept as halal what it makes halal." He never mentioned the Sunna in this hadiths.

Again, in the book "Taq-yeed Al-Ilm", Abu Saeed Al-Khudry said:
"I asked the messenger of God a permission to write his hadiths, BUT HE REFUSED TO GIVE ME A PERMISSION."

So what does “Islam” do after all of these clear signs? It teaches its unwitting(?) victims to ignore God, His Angels, His Messengers, His Warnings, His Prophecies and His Written COMMANDS, in favor of a collection of contradictory nonsense, written by people God did NOT send, about a man none of them knew, to perpetuate a deceitful, money-making business that God has repeatedly condemned.

How can so-called Muslims make partners out of every myth and made-up writing they can get their hands on, and still have the audacity to claim they aren't committing shirk? There are reportedly over 100 times as many fanciful sayings attributed to Muhammad Mustafa in the fabricated, satanic and contradictory Hadith as there are verses in the Holy Koran.

Sura 10:66. Behold! Verily to "I AM" belong all creatures, in the heavens and on Earth. What do they follow who worship as His "partners" other than "I AM"? They follow nothing but fancy, and they do nothing but lie.
IT'S THE MESSAGE (TRUTH) FROM GOD THAT MATTERS, NOT WHO DELIVERS IT.


Sura 5:102. The Messenger's duty is only to proclaim (the Message)(John 7:16-17). But "I AM" knoweth all that ye reveal and ye conceal.

John 7:16-17
7:16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but His that sent me.
7:17 IF any man will do His will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or [whether] I speak of myself.
 






Daze

Established
Joined
Jun 28, 2020
Messages
384
Just some thoughts on the matter =) May Allah reward you abundantly akhi =)
Yes, i agree errors should be corrected but im not sure if this is best done in public.
Why not make use of pm"s? What is there to gain by attempting to publicly humiliate a believer?

Are you not bothered when one Muslim tells another "ok, I'm ignoring you now"?

As i mentioned we are upon the truth so why do millions of believers suffer? Muslim children are being shot, Muslim woman are being raped, Muslim men live in concentration camps forced to provide free labor.

When we are servents of the One who has absolute control of every atom, and so many suffer. then something is very wrong and i think division amongst us is a major problem.

You can't tell me whoever is gonna mislead because when i was a revert Islamaphobia was everywhere. But i never came across any of it in my studies because God didn't will it.

Now that i have some knowledge i can see it. But i never saw it then and it's always been there.

It is God who guides. May he help us all hold firm to the path that please Him the most.

Wa iyyakum
 






Joined
May 12, 2019
Messages
1,328
Yes, i agree errors should be corrected but im not sure if this is best done in public.
Why not make use of pm"s? What is there to gain by attempting to publicly humiliate a believer?

Are you not bothered when one Muslim tells another "ok, I'm ignoring you now"?

As i mentioned we are upon the truth so why do millions of believers suffer? Muslim children are being shot, Muslim woman are being raped, Muslim men live in concentration camps forced to provide free labor.

When we are servents of the One who has absolute control of every atom, and so many suffer. then something is very wrong and i think division amongst us is a major problem.

You can't tell me whoever is gonna mislead because when i was a revert Islamaphobia was everywhere. But i never came across any of it in my studies because God didn't will it.

Now that i have some knowledge i can see it. But i never saw it then and it's always been there.

It is God who guides. May he help us all hold firm to the path that please Him the most.
Wa iyyakum
Jazaakallah khairan for your response brother. I agree advising should be done in private. But if this does not lead a person to self-reflect or to rectify their position, and they believe that they are beyond all reproach, speaking out may be the more effective approach, particularly when it is clear that the opinions being espoused are in clear contradiction to the Quran and Sunnah. It should always be done with kindness and sincerity. And Allah knows best.

Call to the way of your Lord with wisdom and fair exhortation, and argue with them in the best way possible. Your Lord surely knows best who has gone astray from His way, and He knows best who are the rightly guided. (Surah an Nahl 16:125)

Abū Hurayrah RA says: “A Muslim is the mirror of his brother, when he sees a fault in it, he corrects it”
(al-Adab al-Mufrad, hadith 238)

Rasūlullāh ﷺ said : “I swear by Allāh, you must enjoin what is good and prohibit what is evil, prevent the wrongdoer, bend him into conformity with what is right, and restrict him to what is right.”
(Sunan Abū Dāwūd, hadith 4336)

ʿUmar RA says: “Assume the best of your brother unless you learn something about him which you cannot reconcile, and do not think badly of any statement your brother makes as long as there is a good interpretation of it, and the one who exposes himself to suspicion should not blame anyone who has a bad opinion of him.”
(Rawḍah al-ʿUqalāʾ page 90.)

Zayd ibn Wahb said: “A man was brought to Ibn Masʿūd. He was told: This is so and so, and wine was dropping from his beard. ʿAbdullāh ibn Masʿūd thereupon said: We have been prohibited from seeking out faults, however, when something becomes manifest to us, we shall seize it.”
(Sunan Abū Dāwūd, hadith 4890)

Abdullah ibn ‘Utbah reported: Umar ibn al-Khattab, may Allah be pleased with him, said, “Verily, people were judged by revelation in the time of the Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, and the revelation has ceased. We only judge now what is manifested outwardly of your deeds. Whoever shows us good, we will trust him and bring him close. It is not for us to judge anything of his inner secrets; Allah will hold him accountable for his inner secrets. Whoever shows us evil, we will never trust him or believe him even if it is said his intentions are good.”
(Ṣaḥīḥ al-Bukhārī 2498, Grade: Sahih according to Al-Bukhari)

Sufyan al-Thawri, may Allah have mercy on him, said: No one may enjoin good or forbid evil except for one who has three qualities: gentleness in what he enjoins and forbids, justice in what he enjoins and forbids, and knowledge of what he enjoins and forbids.
(al-Amr bil-Maʻrūf lil-Khallāl 1/24)

The believers are but brothers, so make settlement between your brothers. And fear Allah that you may receive mercy.
(Surah al Hujaraat 49:10)

Abu Sa’id al-Khudri reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said: Whoever among you sees evil, let him change it with his hand. If he is unable to do so, then with his tongue. If he is unable to do so, then with his heart, and that is the weakest level of faith.
(Ṣaḥīḥ Muslim 49)


As for division amongst us, I believe it is caused by a failure to enjoin good and forbid evil, to seek a source of honour other than Islam, attempting to imitate the disbelievers, nationalism, lack of (Islamic) education, tribalism, and materialism.

Tariq ibn Shihab reported: Umar ibn al-Khattab, may Allah be pleased with him, said, “Verily, we were a disgraceful people and Allah honored us with Islam. If we seek honor from anything besides that with which Allah honored us, Allah will disgrace us.”
(al-Mustadrak 214, Grade: Sahih according to Al-Albani)

Thawban related that the Messenger of Allah said: "The nations are about to call each other and set upon you, just as diners set upon food." It was said: "Will it be because of our small number that day?" He said: "Rather, on that day you will be many, but you will be like foam, like the foam on the river. And Allah will remove the fear of you from the hearts of your enemies and will throw wahn (weakness) into your hearts." Someone said: "O Messenger of Allah! What is wahn?" He said: "Love of the world and the hatred for death."
(Sahih: Related by Abu Dawud (no. 4297), Ibn 'Asakirin in Tarikh Dimashq (2/97/8) and others. It was authenticated by Al-Albani in As-Sahihah (no. 958))


May Allah reward you brother.
 






billy t

Established
Joined
Aug 2, 2020
Messages
358
Your claim about the shahaadah is weak because Islaamic ruling do not only come from the Qur'a an but also the sunnah and it IS explicitly stated stated in the sunnah. Also there is the verse where Allah says Allah and his angels and his messengers bear witness (shahaadah) that there is no God but Him. Not sure how much more explicit you want it. Smh.
 






Joined
Mar 14, 2017
Messages
3,105
Clearly it does.
However, you write tons of stuff simply to avoid acknowledging what is clear.
That's because content and context matters to peoole who seek the whole truth.
Clearly you chose to follow your ego on this one.
At no point did anything you quoted from hadith say the Bible is altered or corrupt.

Lol at clearly
"3=1"
"I reportededed u doe"
 






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