When Is The Wedding Of Jesus Christ And His Church?

[Thunderian]

This is a long read. I don't know that it will convince anyone who doesn't already view the Bible a certain way, but it's a wonderful piece for those who take a dispensational, pre-trib view of things. I will post the first part and link to the rest.

It does ask a very good question, though, and one I'd like to see someone from the pre-wrath side take a stab at.


"Return from the wedding" (Luke 12:36)

When Is the Wedding?

"Pre-tribulationists have not one verse in the whole Bible which proves that the rapture comes before the tribulation. They come with arguments and implications, but where is just one little verse? Show me one verse."

Challenges like this one I have read in post-trib literature, and such a challenge deserves to be answered. Can we meet the challenge? Do we have one verse that proves pre-tribulationism?

THE ONE VERSE

Before I tell you what verse I have in mind, I want to ask you a question: When is the wedding? We know that the church is the bride and Christ is the bridegroom and someday we will be married. Earthly marriage is just a foretaste of the ultimate joy and fulfillment which we will experience at the heavenly marriage. And it will be without all the problems that earthly marriage has. An earthly wedding is beautiful to watch. But just think of the thrill and excitement we will experience at our heavenly wedding!

My question is: When is it? I think we can all agree that it is at Christ's return. Paul wrote, "For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ" (2 Corinthians 11:2). Right now, according to Paul, we are "espoused." This means we are betrothed or engaged. This means we are not married yet. As long as we are in the church age we are in the engagement period, not the marriage period. So I think we can all agree that the wedding cannot take place until the rapture. Not one minute before. Agreed?

Now, how about that challenge? Can we prove pre-tribulationism from one verse? I think we can. The verse is Luke 12:36:

And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return from the wedding; that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately.
Read it closely. Did you notice the phrase "return from the wedding"? What does that tell you? That one little phrase gives away the whole secret. You see, if the wedding occurred before this return, then the rapture occurred before this return. A prior wedding necessitates a prior coming. It's so simple. If this one verse does not set up a chronology, then my Bible is written in riddles instead of plain words.

tha rest ...

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

I read this article this morning and it really struck me - this is our blessed hope!

I can't wait to be there, and next to the day to day things we go through, these things are not even worthy to be compared to what will come.

 

[colson]

This is a long read. I don't know that it will convince anyone who doesn't already view the Bible a certain way, but it's a wonderful piece for those who take a dispensational, pre-trib view of things. I will post the first part and link to the rest.

It does ask a very good question, though, and one I'd like to see someone from the pre-wrath side take a stab at.


"Return from the wedding" (Luke 12:36)

When Is the Wedding?

"Pre-tribulationists have not one verse in the whole Bible which proves that the rapture comes before the tribulation. They come with arguments and implications, but where is just one little verse? Show me one verse."

Challenges like this one I have read in post-trib literature, and such a challenge deserves to be answered. Can we meet the challenge? Do we have one verse that proves pre-tribulationism?

THE ONE VERSE

Before I tell you what verse I have in mind, I want to ask you a question: When is the wedding? We know that the church is the bride and Christ is the bridegroom and someday we will be married. Earthly marriage is just a foretaste of the ultimate joy and fulfillment which we will experience at the heavenly marriage. And it will be without all the problems that earthly marriage has. An earthly wedding is beautiful to watch. But just think of the thrill and excitement we will experience at our heavenly wedding!

My question is: When is it? I think we can all agree that it is at Christ's return. Paul wrote, "For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ" (2 Corinthians 11:2). Right now, according to Paul, we are "espoused." This means we are betrothed or engaged. This means we are not married yet. As long as we are in the church age we are in the engagement period, not the marriage period. So I think we can all agree that the wedding cannot take place until the rapture. Not one minute before. Agreed?

Now, how about that challenge? Can we prove pre-tribulationism from one verse? I think we can. The verse is Luke 12:36:

And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return from the wedding; that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately.
Read it closely. Did you notice the phrase "return from the wedding"? What does that tell you? That one little phrase gives away the whole secret. You see, if the wedding occurred before this return, then the rapture occurred before this return. A prior wedding necessitates a prior coming. It's so simple. If this one verse does not set up a chronology, then my Bible is written in riddles instead of plain words.

tha rest ...

here is what I gather from articles like this that twist scriptures like pretzels:

Surely we must all be transformed into women, because the church is the 'bride of Christ'. The Jewish template for the Jewish wedding was always for a man and a woman. Jesus was a man, therefore we will all be turned into women to marry Jesus! Our blessed hope! After being turned into women, the Bible tells us that we will be magically whisked away, sucked up into God's vacuum cleaner! God will bring His UFO and we will be tractor beamed up into it, in the sight of all nations. Then we will land and get out of the UFO. I will see my mother and I will have to explain to her that it's really me, her loving son, who has been turned into a woman. And she will be so happy that she got married to Jesus, but is God going to be mad at her for being married to Dad & Jesus at the same time? But Dad has turned into a woman, so that makes her in a lesbian marriage to my Dad. Is God going to punish her for that? I tell her no, everything is all right. Everything is going to be OK.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

@colson - do you think that the church is referred to elsewhere as the 'Bride of Christ'?

Try this...

Matthew 23

37O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! 38Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. 39For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord."

Jesus in not a hen, Colson...

 

[Lady]

@colson,
Come, come, Colson. You sure know how to twist and shout, don't you?

There are mysteries we cannot now know, but will know when we who are in Christ the LORD will be one with Him.
Gal. 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

 

[colson]

@colson,
Come, come, Colson. You sure know how to twist and shout, don't you?

There are mysteries we cannot now know, but will know when we who are in Christ the LORD will be one with Him.
Gal. 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Oh boy, as much as I would love to drag this parody out (it's fun for me at least!), I guess I should stop.
@ Lady
I get it, but do you get it?
The same legalistic nonsense that the author uses in that link, I can do too. I could easily just start saying, 'you are besmirching God's holiness, because you are calling God a liar. I am going to be turned into a woman and then be vacuumed into a UFO because the Bible says so! And there's nothing you can show me to prove otherwise!" (by the way - I'm joking)

See how boring that gets?

If Thunderian really wanted to have a discussion about when the wedding feast is, that would be interesting. But instead, it is just about re-upping on whisked away vacuum cleaner rapture propaganda.

 

[Lady]

Oh boy, as much as I would love to drag this parody out (it's fun for me at least!), I guess I should stop.
@ Lady
I get it, but do you get it?
The same legalistic nonsense that the author uses in that link, I can do too. I could easily just start saying, 'you are besmirching God's holiness, because you are calling God a liar. I am going to be turned into a woman and then be vacuumed into a UFO because the Bible says so! And there's nothing you can show me to prove otherwise!" (by the way - I'm joking)

See how boring that gets?

If Thunderian really wanted to have a discussion about when the wedding feast is, that would be interesting. But instead, it is just about re-upping on whisked away vacuum cleaner rapture propaganda.

I will discuss when you are less caustic at the expense of others. I had an issue with your mocking tone, so decided to post.

 

[colson]

I am not putting anyone down. I am mocking an idea.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

I am not putting anyone down. I am mocking an idea.

That's what people do when they can't argue with real points, Colson...

Ps another one for your list...

"9I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture. 10The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly."

Knock knock...

 

[colson]

Then give me a real point.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Then give me a real point.

What about this one then?

Matthew 13

"10And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? 11He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. 12For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath."

God is not mocked, Colson. It might be your time to take him seriously...

 

[Thunderian]

here is what I gather from articles like this that twist scriptures like pretzels:

Surely we must all be transformed into women, because the church is the 'bride of Christ'. The Jewish template for the Jewish wedding was always for a man and a woman. Jesus was a man, therefore we will all be turned into women to marry Jesus! Our blessed hope! After being turned into women, the Bible tells us that we will be magically whisked away, sucked up into God's vacuum cleaner! God will bring His UFO and we will be tractor beamed up into it, in the sight of all nations. Then we will land and get out of the UFO. I will see my mother and I will have to explain to her that it's really me, her loving son, who has been turned into a woman. And she will be so happy that she got married to Jesus, but is God going to be mad at her for being married to Dad & Jesus at the same time? But Dad has turned into a woman, so that makes her in a lesbian marriage to my Dad. Is God going to punish her for that? I tell her no, everything is all right. Everything is going to be OK.

I'm not sure if you're just trying to be funny, or if you just haven't read the Bible, but the idea of the Church as the symbolic bride of the bridegroom, Jesus Christ, is pretty well established in several books in the New Testament. The marriage supper of the Lamb is also a clearly established event.

The question asked is: When is the wedding? Do you have a comment on that?

 

[Karlysymon]

I think the wedding feast will happen after the Second Coming. Its a joyous occassion. So, it would happen after the death of the wicked and no one has to worry about them while clinking glasses of grape juice and eating the bread of heaven!

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

I liked this oldie from Johnnie Cash...

 

[colson]

That's what people do when they can't argue with real points, Colson...

Ps another one for your list...

"9I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture. 10The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly."

Knock knock...

Exactly: Jesus is a door. Jesus is a hen. Jesus only marries women. Jesus beams people up in his UFO.

My point being: Jesus is not a literal door. Jesus is not a literal hen. Jesus does not 'marry' 'only women'.

So why do people insist that Paul means Jesus beams people up 'in a UFO' when he says: 1Thess 4

16For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. 18Therefore encourage one another with these words.​

Why must it mean 'we will be whisked into the air' poof! ? That phrase, 'caught up together' is the almighty ... 'harpazo' G726, http://biblehub.com/greek/726.htm the word some Christians go crazy for, that supposedly proves we will be 'whisked away' poof!

Here is another instance of Paul using that word, harpazo, the 'sudden snatching away' 2 Cor 12

1I must go on boasting. Though there is nothing to be gained by it, I will go on to visions and revelations of the Lord. 2I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven—whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows. 3And I know that this man was caught up into paradise—whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows— 4and he heard things that cannot be told, which man may not utter.
​

Both of those 'caught up to' are the magical 'harpazo'/ 'sudden seizing', but Paul says 2x he doesn't know if the guy is in or out of his body. Paul says, maybe he went physically to heaven, maybe he just had an ecstatic vision. Well, that's unfortunate for us, because there is an entire industry devoted to being extremely sure that we are getting physically taken to heaven!

Isn't it just a little conceivable, that maybe this 'ecstatic vision' meaning fits a little better with 'Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.

If you die, you will be with the Lord. If you don't die, you will have an ecstatic vision of the Lord and always be with the Lord spiritually.

 

[colson]

I'm not sure if you're just trying to be funny, or if you just haven't read the Bible, but the idea of the Church as the symbolic bride of the bridegroom, Jesus Christ, is pretty well established in several books in the New Testament. The marriage supper of the Lamb is also a clearly established event.

The question asked is: When is the wedding? Do you have a comment on that?

Yes, I was being funny.
Yes, I do have comments about when the wedding is, but I've wasted too much time on rapture stuff for now

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

@colson - you seem to take issue with the one-time-only miraculous nature of the Rapture.

I find the UFO angle very interesting, especially as it looks like a satanic cover story that most people would swallow if an actual Rapture were to occur.

I wonder where you stand on a few other crazy scripture events, which only bumpkins would take literally, for example, the parting of the Red Sea (yeah right), Joshua's long day (would come in handy before an exam) and maybe even the Resurrection?

 

[Tatilina]

I believe in the transformation of heavenly bodies or the resurrection occurs at the second coming and that marriage and wedding is mesnt to be symbolic and not literal.....at all lol.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

I believe in the transformation of heavenly bodies or the resurrection occurs at the second coming and that marriage and wedding is mesnt to be symbolic and not literal.....at all lol.

It makes me sad how people like Madonna etc are so focussed on the Kabbalistic Tree of Life. They act as though their ceremonies and pursuits will bring them what they are searching for, when true spiritual transformation, the very thing their hearts desire is offered to them by the Lord Jesus Christ, the very saviour they reject.

 

[Tatilina]

It makes me sad how people like Madonna etc are so focussed on the Kabbalistic Tree of Life. They act as though their ceremonies and pursuits will bring them what they are searching for, when true spiritual transformation, the very thing their hearts desire is offered to them by the Lord Jesus Christ, the very saviour they reject.

I don't care much for Madonna or any of her music. The one thing I hane never looked into was Kabbalah, so I'm pretty ignorant of it, I just know its Jewish mysticism and even then I really don't know what that is either lol. I was never interested in learning about Kabballah. I'm sure there is a lot to learn and information to take in. Maybe one of these days I'll watch some youtube videos on it.